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I read the post about killing blow working on a man-sized model riding on a mount etc. can be felled by "killing blow". But what about the Dwarven Gyrocopter? The Dwarf is not really exposed as the riders of beasts and monsters, so can he still be killed with killing blow? :confused:
No. the Gyro counts as one thing, the pilot doesn't have a seperate profile - they are counted as one thing. It can't be KB'ed.
Actually, Killing Blow will work on Gyrocopters because the model is a flyer that consists of a 'mount' (the copter) and a 'rider' (the pilot). I refer everyone to the Direwolves FAQ on Killing Blow which states;
If a model consists of both a rider that would be placed on a 20mm or 25mm base if alone on foot, and another creature, but the model cannot be separated into components (e.g. Standard cavalry, pegasus knights, terradons, warhawks, etc) then Killing Blow is still effective vs the model as a whole (excluding chariots).
Essentially, if the rider (or pilot in this case) is 'roughly man-sized' then Killing blow works as normal, even against models that have a combined profile (except for chariots as stated, although you can still nobble a character who happens to be riding in a chariot, just not the chariot itself). I guess it's assumed the mount flies off, or crashes in the case of Gyrocopters.
I think that clears that up nicely. :cool:
"Peace, through superior firepower."
The Gyro only has the Flyer rules for it's movement, it's not classed as a flyer or a flying mount. It's an entire model, the combined stats makes it more akin to a chariot than a flying 'unit'. I would disagree and say it can't simply because it's not classed as a flyer or a flying unit.
It is not a flying mount, the rule specifically says a mount. The gyro isn't a mount.
Eh? So if a model with the Fly special rule isn't classed as a flyer, what is it classed as then? :mellow:Originally Posted by King Ulrik FlamebeardHmm that's weird, how is it not a flying mount? :huh: The dwarf pilot is mounted on the gyrocopter after all. Plus, nowhere in the entry for Gyrocopters does it mention anything about it being a chariot. The reason why Killing Blow does not work against chariots is because there's usually 4 creatures making up the chariot capable of fighting, two of which cannot be affected by Killing Blow (i.e. the creatures pulling it). The Gyrocopter only has one 'creature' making up the 'crew' and if you think about it logically, there's no reason why the Dwarf pilot could not be beheaded if he's fighting in combat, just like anyone else. And once that happens, the machine is no longer capable of fighting, unlike a chariot which has multiple 'fighters'.Originally Posted by King Ulrik Flamebeard
Further, here's two excerpts from the Dwarf book from the Gyrocopter entry;
"may be charged by enemy troops in the same way as flying creatures"
"close combat is conducted as normal with few exceptions"
None of those exceptions mentions Killing Blow, thus implying that it works as normal for Gyrocopters.
I'm not trying to make an enemy Ulrik, I just think it makes sense that Killing Blow would work against Gyrocopters. Incidentally, I also think it would make more sense if it worked against the crew of chariots too.
"Peace, through superior firepower."
How about this: If the hits are randomized against the 'mount' and the rider, then hits wounding against the rider would be subject to killing blow. This system is also true for warmachines, but I'm assuming a Gyrocoptor isn't one of those. I don't have this particular rule book, and I've never played against one, or even seen one in action.
If we consider the coptor a model such as an Empire pistolier that's wounded all at once and doesn't randomize hits, then the answer is no. Killing blow wouldn't work as the model is larger than man size.
If we consider it a chariot, warmachine, or character riding a monster (which it clearly is not the last), then the answer becomes yes.
Is it a flyer? It's hard to see how it isn't. It flies. But then again, all flyers have a US of 1? According to this reference sheet I printed off from US the GW site, the coptors US is 1. If it were classed a chariot or warmachine, would it'd have a US greater than 1? The US of warmachine's equals the number of remaining crew members.
So are warmachines only projectile weapons? The coptor has that steam cannon?
Anyhow, I think that if hits were randomized then yes. If not, then no.
Last edited by DavidWC09; May 30th, 2005 at 07:18.
Ok, I got confused with the flyer rule (thinking that only flyer unit are named as flyers, due to me not really using flying models). But I asked this question at Bugman's and they all agree that it wouldn't suffer from kb.
Reason being, it's not a mount. The gyro has joint stats, the pilot cannot be targeted it uses the Gyro's T and W. Basically you're hitting a wooden construct, not the flesh and blood of the pilot.
If it should ever come up and GW haven't clarafiyed it, then I'd roll a D6 for it.
I'd believe that you can't KB a gyro either. With that train of thought, you could technically KB a chariot - which is not possible. Despite the pilot being treated as a rider, it's treated as one model overall, and not separated (similar to a chariot).
The iron crowned is getting closer,
Swings his hammer down on him,
Like a thunderstorm he's crushing,
Down the Noldor's proudest king.
Under my foot, so hopeless it seems.
You've troubled my day, now feel the pain.
- Blind Guardian
How about instances when hits are randomized? If a wound against the rider is a killing blow, should that count? Or does the mount/chariot/whatever just get too much in the way to allow it?
you cannot KB it, simply because they have a merged profile, the pilot cannot be targeted, and it counts as a warmachine. If you can direct hits at it, like a lord on a dragon, then KB will occure, as the lord by himself as roughly a mansize base. But this won't kill the monter mount of course,