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    winning combat after expanding frontage

    if a unit expands its frontage, and then wins in a later round, does it keep the new formation or go back to its original shape? Does this change depending on whether they pursue/restrain pursuit/wipe out an enemy and stand still?


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    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keilah
    if a unit expands its frontage, and then wins in a later round, does it keep the new formation or go back to its original shape? Does this change depending on whether they pursue/restrain pursuit/wipe out an enemy and stand still?
    They return to their initial frontage after winning combat. Otherwise, you could have a formation in a horseshoe shape where you had lapped around the enemy's flank; or even stranger, in a padlock shape where you had lapped to the flanks and the rear.

    THey will always resume original formation despite pursuit, etc.

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    are you sure? I only said "expand frontage" not "lapping round".

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    Senior Member §ilent§torm's Avatar
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    Expanding frontage is the same as lapping around, it's just if you expand your frontage to the point where you aren't in combat, it defeats the purpose, so you end up lapping around the flanks. So yes, you do go back to your normal rank and file formation after the combat ends.
    Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if it's wrong.

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    Tabletop Terraformer Tzeentch Lord's Avatar
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    109 (x4)

    Erm, David and SilentStorm, Expanding Frontage is not the same a Lapping Round. They are two completely different and separate things. The rules for both are on page 77.

    Expanding Frontage is the first of the two. It says you can move models from the rear ranks of your unit to the front 'fighting rank' of your unit in order to extend your fighting line. However, you must still ensure your unit maintains equal sized ranks, except of course for the last rank.
    When Expanding Frontage, none of your models ever move to the flanks or rear of the enemy unit.

    Lapping Round is where you take models from the rear ranks of your unit, and move them to the flanks and then rear of the enemy unit. However, Lapping Round can only be accomplished if the formation of your unit already extends to the flanks of the enemy unit. So if your unit is a lot narrower than the enemy unit, you will have to Expand Frontage first, only then can you start Lapping Round.

    In answer to your original question, if your unit has expanded it's frontage then that is counted as a formation change and it stays this way until it has an opportunity to Reform during one of it's movement phases. Although obviously, the unit will have to be out of combat to Reform. Expanding Frontage is the only maneuver a unit is allowed to do whilst engaged in combat. A unit cannot reduce it's frontage during combat either, only expand it. So regardless of whether it flees, pursues, is engaged by another enemy or whatever, it retains it's 'expanded' formation.

    However, if a unit has models that are Lapping Round the enemy unit, those models are returned to the rear ranks of the unit if any models of the unit (including the lapping ones) are charged by a new enemy. Lapping models are also returned to the rear ranks if the unit is defeated in combat, pursues or flees.
    "Peace, through superior firepower."

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    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    Okay, I see what he was saying. I understand that you lap around only after extending to the flanks but confuddled the two.

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    Senior Member §ilent§torm's Avatar
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    Actually, Tzeentch Lord, I think there is an option to 'Expand Frontage' without changing ranks. What you're talking about sounds like a reform, which you can still do while in combat as long as it brings more models into contact with the enemy. But you cannot lap around if you don't meet the edges of the enemy, it just doesn't make sense (four member suddenly become skirmishers no longer in contact with the rest of your unit?). So in some cases (not a lot) you do have to expand your frontage before you are allowed to lap around.

    I'm pretty sure that it's allowed to expand frontage without changing ranks before you lap around, but I've lost my rulebook and with the next edition coming out next year, can't see myself replacing it when I can just use the store's copy for a few months.
    Last edited by §ilent§torm; September 27th, 2005 at 17:47.
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    Tabletop Terraformer Tzeentch Lord's Avatar
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    109 (x4)

    I'm just going off what the rulebook says, I've done lapping round before, but I've never used the expand frontage rule! I've never needed to, my units have always been the same width or wider whenever I've wanted to lap round.

    From what is explained in the rulebook, it seems that expanding frontage basically is a reform, it's just one that can be performed while in combat. As for expanding frontage without changing ranks, there was nothing about that in the rulebook. Unless I've missed something, a unit's formation must extend to or past the enemy unit's flanks before you can start lapping round, since models don't lap round to the enemy's front, they lap to the flanks and rear. Because as you point out, if you started lapping round before that happened, the lapping models wouldn't be in contact with the main part of the unit, which would be ridiculous.

    I think that's how it's supposed to work anyway...

    Also, did anyone else realise a unit can actually lap round against an enemy engaged in their flank!? I didn't know that, but apparently you can. In the FAQ, they said that the rules don't specify that the enemy unit must have engaged your unit it the front for you to be able to lap round against it.
    "Peace, through superior firepower."

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    Senior Member §ilent§torm's Avatar
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    Alright, thanks for checking up on it for me, Tzeentch Lord.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzeentch Lord
    Also, did anyone else realise a unit can actually lap round against an enemy engaged in their flank!? I didn't know that, but apparently you can. In the FAQ, they said that the rules don't specify that the enemy unit must have engaged your unit it the front for you to be able to lap round against it.
    Yeah, I knew it was allowed, which sounds about as ridiculous as sending your back rank off to lap around and no longer be in contact with the rest of the unit, and the whole idea of being flanked is that your unit gets disorganized. But then again, it doesn't happen too often, because good luck winning combat while flanked by a big unit.
    Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if it's wrong.

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    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    But I don't think you'd have cases where you can lap around and not be in contact with the rest of the unit.

    Here's how I've played it.
    x's are me
    o's are the enemy
    -'s are space fillers

    ---oooo---
    ---oooo---
    ---oooo---
    ---oooo---
    ---xxxx---
    ---xxxx---
    ---xxxx---
    ---xxxx---

    After I win combat I move four from the back (assuming he lost four full models this round). One to the front left and right to meet the last positions I could have contact there and then one to each flank, resulting in this...
    ---oooo---
    ---oooo---
    --xoooox--
    --xxxxxx--
    ---xxxx---
    ---xxxx---

    Assuming I win again, I'd lap four more, as permitted in the rules for this scheme (this time assuming he took four more casualtie)...
    ---xxxx---
    --xoooox--
    --xoooox--
    --xxxxxx--
    ---xxxx---


    The example on page 77 of the BRB doesn't show the unit having to fill those left and right, outer-most corner spots before moving to the flanks, but it's how my group has always played it.

    Still, my point is, you do stay in contact with the original unit, even if only by a corner to corner point.

    You're talking about flanked units lapping around, SilentStorm, which still should work the same way. Or am I totally off about this?

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