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Let me paint you a little scenario.
I was playing my Wood Elves vs another Wood Elf player last Wednesday. During the course of the game, my unit of Eternal Guard were charged by my opponents Wardancers.
My Eternal Guard is a unit 11 strong with full command and an attached Eternal Guard Noble who carries the Amber Pendant (it makes enemies in base to base with the bearer automatically go last, even if they have 'go first' abilities. It's good because in an ideal combat situation, the Noble will make three enemy models strike last.)
Anyway, my Eternal Guard are situated like this:
G= Eternal Guard dude
When I'm hit by the Wardancers, they line up to maximize their frontage to me, so they have a battle line 8 wide.
Through the course of a few combats, my Eternal Guard unit starts to dissappear (as do most things against Wardancers). Eventually, I'm left with only the command models and the Noble. Keep in mind that the Wardancers were suffering heavily too (thanks to the Noble and his pendant).
It eventually looks like this (as I lose my musician)
C B _ N
_ = Break in the line
I take my break check, and pass. Then, since my line is broken, I must realign to make a flush rank. I move my Noble to the left, putting him in base to base with the standard bearer, and also in btb with three of the Wardancers, thus, making them go last in the next round of combat due to the Amber Pendant.
My opponent started to whoop and holler about this as he said it was unfair that I got to move my Noble to fill the gap, and that I should have to move the Banner and Champion to the right to put them flush against the Noble instead (effectively making the Noble's pendant only effect two Wardancers instead of three).
He piped down when I reminded him that when he charged three turns ago, he claimed that he didn't expect to win the combat, but I was just wondering if there was any official ruling on this?
I don't know of any official ruling on this, but it sounds as if your opponent was grubbing for worms. Common sense (at least as common sense makes sense to me) would dictate that the larger part of the unit, here the remainder of the command, stay stationary while the smaller part, your noble, shifts to meet the larger. At the very least, I would say it's your choice.
It seems obvious that he was ruling to his advantage and not to the dictums of fairness, established rules, or common sense.
I've just had a quick look at the Direwolves FAQ and there's nothing in there about this sort of situation, I think it's just one of those eventualities that there isn't an official rule for.
There is a small section in the rulebook (pg77) about removing casualties from a single line unit, but that talks about moving a model from one end to fill a gap left by the death of a character.
However, I agree with David, moving the Noble over to join up with the larger (?!) part of the unit seems more sensible. By doing that you've still met the requirements of the above rule by moving a model 'from one end' to fill a gap in the line, there's no rule that it has to be a rank and file model that fills the gap.
"Peace, through superior firepower."
Okay. Thanks, that answers my question. I just didn't know if there was an official policy for the situation. The last thing I want to do is win a fight because I cheated.
Anyway, here's another question on the formation of my Eternal Guard unit. One of my friends says that the rules for command in a unit is that the banner should be one of the center most models, and that all the command should be next to each other.
My current formation:
G= Eternal Guard dude
satisfies these requirements, but doesn't give much of a benefit to the all powerful Amber Pendant weilding Noble.
I was wondering if I could rearange the formation to this:
This formation puts the Noble in a more centralized position which would yield better benefit to the power of the Pendant (like if I were hit by a 4 wide enemy formation), while still satisfying the above mentioned requirements.
Also, is it okay to interrupt the command group in a formation?
The Noble hops between the banner bearer and the musician and the Champ moves to the outskirts.
I realize these questions could probably be answered in the big rule book (which I don't have). But could you provide me a page reference I could look to when I go up to the store to game this Wednesday?
Any help is much appreciated.
Buy yourself a copy while you're there, eh? :yes:Originally Posted by MobiusPrime
Champions and musicians don't have a specific place in the front rank, they can be anywhere in that rank. See the section entitled "Standards, Musicians and Champions".
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
Like Rork said, none of the command models have a specific place, you can arrange them in any order you like, although it does actually specify that the banner is to be in the middle (pg108, 'Position within the Unit' paragraph). Other than that, command and character models can be in any position in the front rank and in any order. Such special models only get shifted to the second rank if they isn't enough space in the front rank. Although in such cases, command models actually take priority for front rank space, with character models being shifted to the second rank first.
"Peace, through superior firepower."
In all cases, I belive. Unless stated differently in the unit/army's special rules. The only one I can think of is Bretonnian knights in lance formation.Originally Posted by Tzeentch Lord
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if it's wrong.
i was in a similar situartion where my captain was on the out side like so...
eactly that..so i moved my captain over and the guy had a fit, but this happend at GW and then they said there are 2 things you can so...accept it...or keep being a bad sportt and winge winge winge...
so you can but if you can move something over instead or move something up there its better because the ememy might have a fit...
P.S. Blood angels rule, the anger lets us ignore wounds ...hehehe