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First up -- to the Mods: I didn't know where this should go, please move it if you see fit.
Me my gaming group are planning a mega battle of over 10,000pts each side. At last count it was about 12k each.
Each side will have 3 commanders (people controlling them- us) and 5 races.
Basically we want a massive trooper bash rather than uber tooled-up, cheese-maester characters winning or losing the game. So we've made some adjustments to the rules.
Tell me what you think...
0-1 Lord per race. (each race contributes 2-3.5k pts)
Table is 4"x13 or so. (2 tables butted together -- keeps things tight and bunched -- and we don't have a third table)
There can be Reserves
up to 25% of each army (race) can be held in reserve and brought on whenever, so long as the general is alive (dice rolls if he's dead already -- encourages the reserves to get on the table)
Each army has a campsite marker which they deploy. No campsite within 12" of another campsite. Campsites are a point on the base line of the table.
When reserves deploy (as if they had pursued off the table) they must be within 2xmarch move distance from the army campsite marker. ie can't keep the kick ass unit in reserve and bring them on miles away from where they would actually be standing 'in reserve' just off the table.
There are some other special rules which I can elaborate on if this thread sparks interest :yes:
But the real problem is the magic phase. Here is what we've got so far...
Each army generates its own base power and dispel dice (2 for showing up, 4 for dwarfs etc)
Each wizard generates its own dice which only that wiz can use.
Power dice cannot be pooled. Dispel dice can.
This basically makes magic a non event in the game, (at least thats what we found in a smaller 2 on 2 battle with these rules). There are too many dispel dice out there to dispel something that won't even affect the models you are controlling.
How can we make magic worthwhile without making it too powerful???
Perhaps only generate half the usual number of base dispel dice?
OK I've said too much and probably bamboozled you by now, please reply and I can re-explain parts better. Or if you understood it all, let me know what you think...
Yeah magic is indeed a pretty complicated part of huge multi-team battles like that.
What I suggest is keep each army's pools seperate, then play by the normal rules for magic. So when casting spells a lizardman army for example can allocate all his power dice between his mages as he sees fit, defensively you can still use DD anywhere even if it doesn't effect you. If someone uses their DD to stop a spell on the other side of the board, then the opponent facing them may have some magic that will get through unopposed.
Or maybe you could make a radius for each army/mage in what they can dispel or send dice to? Then it would be benificial to keep your mages near each other, and probably a bit more realistic.
I'm considering moving this to Rules Development, but for now since there could be official rules that I'm unaware of for allies in WHFB I'll leave it here.
The main problem is that an army with bugger all magic (maybe just a L1 only) helps out heaps more with the dispels than they 'should'. A range thing might be good, but then how would dwarfs fit into that? or any army without a wiz, or maybe the wiz died already? They can usually just dispel from nowhere specific and its all good.
What about this (making it up on the spot and haven't thought it through fully)...
In the enemy magic phase you chose a spot on the table which is the 'magical centre' of your army (ie 3 magic centres per side). Dispel dice can only be used on spells which are within 36" radius of your centre. [36"range?? Would this make it too easy for magic to target units known to be outside the range and then Noone can dispel for those units??]
Perhaps the magic centre must be within 12" of a model from your army.
Also, some spells have "tabletop" range (unlimited) Do you think this will make these spells/magic items/ etc just too powerful? Dwarf master rune of dismay is usually pretty useless (all enemy- Ld test to charge) but if you can do that and get everyone on the mega table!! yikes! I think these will need a range cap put on them. What would anyone recommend as a suitable range?
When we've played "big" battles (Up to 3 players per side, 2K per player) we split
the battlefield into 3 sections and had a separate magic phase in each of the
Each section would get the 2PD (for turning up) & whatever PD were available
from wizards present in that section. Also, a miscast would only affect the section
it occured in (so if an unlucky roll ended the magic phase, it only ended that section's
We pooled Dispel dice across the sections, so that if one side piled all their wizards into
1 section, they wouldn't overwhelm the oppostion. Plus it led to some interesting
"conversations" about who got use the dispel dice! We found magic could be
effective, but wouldn't be overwhelming.
You can always "tune" the effectiveness of magic by lowering the number of dispel
dice (2 total instead of 2 per section) or by not allowing pooling of dispel dice.
Have fun anyway, and good luck with the big game!
My gaming group usually does this: everyone generates dice as normal.
If the Beastman player targets an enemy unit, say my Wood Elf Glade Guard, then I can choose to dispel it. If I choose not to or am out of dice, a friendly mage from another army can attempt to dispel it.
If the Beastman player casts a spell that doesn't affect the enemy but changes some condition of the battlefield or affects his own Beastmen unit, then anyone can dispel it.
It's worked fine so far. And it's fairly simple.
I like this idea of splitting into separate magic zones. But then it might not feel like the mega battle that we want it to be, instead being 2 large battles side by side.
Fluffwise though, I guess the terrain could have a ridge or something to hide the tables join line. The ridge separates the winds of magic and the 2 valleys are distinct.
But terrain like this will split the game even more. Basically we want the game to be a huge flow of combats with the units wiping out enemy and migrating sideways down the table to find fresh combat. I envisage bretonnian knights being a long way down the table at the end of the game from where they deployed from!
In all the "larger" games I have played in we have used the same as DavidVC04. It works out really well because if you run out of Dispel Dice then you are out of luck and may get hit hard really quick. My suggestion is keep it simple. Don't over complicate things and you can't go wrong.
If you are worried about the Dispell Dice being too much then consider a slight change to what DavidVC04 is using.Originally Posted by DavidVC04
If the spell is targeting your troops you Dispell on a 1 die to 1 Die ratio. If you want to dispel something thrown at your ally it's 2 die to get 1 die roll. On that note, if the spell is not targeting a ally then anyone can dispell it on a 1:1 ratio.
1. You cast a magic missle at my spearmen. I use 2 dice from my pool and roll 2d6 to dispell the magic missle. 1:1 dice ratio to defend self.
2. You cast a magic missle missle at my spearmen. I'm out of dispell dice. My ally pulls 4 dice from his pool and rolls 2d6 to stop the spell. 2:1 dice ratio to defend an ally.
3. You cast Hand of gork on your Boar boyz. ANY ally can pull dispell dice to counter the spell as it is not directed at an ally. 1:1 ratio to block general spells that don't target you or an ally.
Small note: You pull 3 Dice to defend an ally. You get one 1d6 for sure and 50/50 roll to get the other. This also could be used if you have only one dispel die to defend an ally, thus giving you a 50/50 chance to get a 1d6 roll. 1-3 Fails and 4-6 Succeeds.
As always, there is only one attempt allowed to dispell a spell.
Last edited by Romulus; June 6th, 2006 at 18:50.
40K: Tyranid, Necron, Space Wolves
Fantasy: Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Orcs & Goblins, Dwarves
hmm... I'll float this idea with my gaming group partaking in the battle and see what they think. I'd have to work out some proxy numbers for situations. But I think it might just work.