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Good evening gents, this combination came up in a game I was playing yesterday, here is the scenario:
My unit of skeletons and vampire count is hit in the front by kroxigors and sauruses, on the side by salamanders, and on the rear by terradons (though a really bad situation, my bad tactics is not the problem in question.)
I cast death dealer on the skeleton unit, and then the staff of damnation casts hellish vigour, both go off. I make my attacks first, causing 8 wounds total. When it is time for him to cause wounds, and he does, he argues that the hellish vigours effect ends, and the extra attacks I get from my fallen skeletons from death dealer are not effected by rerolls, because it is out of combat order. I said that it did not matter, the hellish vigour says in the next cc phase the unit effected attacks first, and can re-roll any missed to hit rolls. That last line in the book says to me that any rolls I make to hit in combat are rerollable if they miss, and he argued that these were not conventional to hit rolls. Arguing with him was useless so we diced off, and he won. I did not get my rerolls, and no more wounds were scored. Was I right, does it effect all of the attacks, or do the hitting first and rerolling go together, and only those are effected.
I checked the direwolf faq, and there was nothing, also there was nothing about it in the brb or vc book as far as I could see.
As I wrote this I thought of another occasion where we had to dice off, sorry it's not in the title, but the first is more important anyways.
My skeletons charged skinks out of a forest, and the skinks stood and shot. Since my unit was in the woods to start, I said they had the soft cover bonus, but he said since I had to leave the woods to charge him, the skinks would just fire after they were out of the woods and he wouldn't get the penalty. We diced off and yet again he won. I checked the stand and shoot rules and the modifiers, and did not see anything about it.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
Ok, here's what I think. Although their regular attacks strike first, the spell states they will reroll in the next phase, implying any attacks or special attacks your might have (death dealer). If it said: the unit strikes first, and may reroll the attacks that have missed while striking first, then your friend would be right.
It simply implied the whole phase.
AS for your second question, there is a bit of truth in both statements.
The stand and shoot happens as soon as the charging units get in weapons range, unless already in range they will take effect immediatly. So if you start your charge 12'' away from is blowpipes and your are in woods, you benefit from the cover. but if you have to move out to get within weapons range you won't get the soft cover.
His skinks were within range to hit my unit at any point, it just took the whole movement to get throught the woods and charge him. I had to leave the woods to reach him, but not to get within range.
Then he should have shot you where you stood.
Thank you, I am talking to him on aim right now, and he still defends it, becuase 2 of my front rank was partially out of the woods, but since the rest of the unit is in the woods, that gives me the partial cover correct? Sorry I didn't say that earlier, but it slipped my mind.
He also says the only reason he was against the death dealer vigour combo, was becuase it was a cheesy combo. That kind of got me PO'd, becuase though its a combo, it really isn't all that game turning.
Thanks for the replies wolf pack.
When he stands and shoots, he shoots at the incoming front rank, not rear. Under fiere the back models simply press forward, you wouldn't get the soft cover if half the unit or a good part of it is clearly out to be shot at.
When you end your movement it a sticky situtation that can leave to this, make sure that you and your opponent agree to the condition they are in.
Today I lost a necro because I moved him on a piece of terrain and thought him to be safe, but my opponent pulled a charge as he saw the rip of the base.
It cannot hurt the clarify ^_^
I can't add anything useful about the first question as I don't know enough about Undead magic, but as for this one, I agree with Wolf_Pack. Units that stand and shoot, open fire at the maximum range of their weapon, but if your unit wasn't completely within the forest when his unit fired, he wouldn't get the soft cover penalty.Originally Posted by Master JabuI'm not sure what you mean by this? If you meant that a tiny part of the Necromancers base was not within the terrain piece and your opponent charged, it doesn't make much difference anyway. Models can see into and out of woods up to 2". If however, your opponent wanted to shoot the Necromancer, he would still have suffered the soft cover penalty. I think the rule for being in cover is on a model by model basis (ie. all of the models in a unit must be in cover, or none of them are). The Necromancer would be covered, since he is the only model in his 'unit' and he was in cover.Originally Posted by Wolf_Pack
"Peace, through superior firepower."
he was hidden on a piece of terrain behind a round house. since it was rounded he saw the tip, as I did not pay too much attention to the placement, and he saw fit not to notify he still thought he could see me.Originally Posted by Tzeentch Lord
I can tell you it won't happen again ...