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Thread: wizard status?

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    wizard status?

    What does it take for a character to be able to cast spells? A necrarch thrall can be kitted out with forbidden lore and dark acolyte which means he knows a spell and can generate a power dice. Does that mean he can cast a spell? or does he need some kind of wizard status?


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    Nope, to be a wizard a model needs to have a wizard level of at least one. Otherwise all you have is some guy who knows a spell and generates some dice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sithjack View Post
    Otherwise all you have is some guy who knows a spell and generates some dice.
    What... like a wizard?




    I think those upgrades DO allow casting but I don't have a book to hand so can't check. Sorry.
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    I'd check their FAQ but off hand just generating dice and knowing a spell isn't all the casting equation.

    A level of Wizard is needed to dictate how many dice per spell you can cast. Just because a Level 1 Wizard can channel 2 doesn't mean you can take a leap and say a non-Wizard channels 1. At least not unless you can find some kind of rule to support that (which is why I say check FAQ, if it's anywhere it'd be there). Far as the core rules say, if you have no levels of Wizard, you can throw -0- dice towards a spell even if you've generated them and know a spell as you must have the actual Wizard classification and level to channel any dice.

    Now other Wizards in your army will benefit from the power dice that ability generates for their casted spells, and the thrall can still use the other Arcane items that are bound himself, which would seem to be the idea of that ability.

    However unless you see something which says they become a lvl 1 Wizard they can't cast spells themselves using dice, they can only use the bound items themselves or generate dice for others to use. Those other abilites were meant for full on Counts/Lords.

    Excepting of course if you can find some source elsewhere which FAQs/Erratas that.
    Last edited by BFGMidwesternPrisoner; June 21st, 2007 at 03:25. Reason: changed wording so point cost couldn't be as easily deduced
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    It says right in the VC book that taking Nekhara's Noble Blood makes Thralls level one wizards. Just that bloodline power alone means that they can learn and cast a spell, and generate dice as if they were a lvl one wizard....cause they are. In addition they can be your army general
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabe View Post
    It says right in the VC book that taking Nekhara's Noble Blood makes Thralls level one wizards. Just that bloodline power alone means that they can learn and cast a spell, and generate dice as if they were a lvl one wizard....cause they are. In addition they can be your army general
    That's not what he's talking about. It's true, and it would let his Thrall be a caster like he wants knowing 1 spell and being able to cast it, it's just not his actual question.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Reaper View Post
    What does it take for a character to be able to cast spells? A necrarch thrall can be kitted out with forbidden lore and dark acolyte which means he knows a spell and can generate a power dice. Does that mean he can cast a spell? or does he need some kind of wizard status?
    He's refering to using those two powers (forbidden lore and dark acolyte) to try and do the same thing, without the dispel dice, but for cheaper.

    However it doesn't work that way. You must be a Wizard to cast spells. To answer him directly, Yes you must have Wizard status to cast Spells (or you must be able to point to a specific rule which allows you to otherwise). You can't infer you might. You can't suggest because circumstances are similiar you might. Something has to directly say you can. Otherwise you just have the ability to use bound items, and the ability to use such doesn't innately make you a Wizard. (example: Warrior Priests are not Wizards, yet use bound effects and bound items)


    If he wants to cast he COULD take the power you're refering too... he could NOT combine the two he asked about to achieve similiar ends.


    As a tourny organizer I knew once said... Warhammer doesn't work by "If I can't find a rule that says I can't, then I can!" mentality... it works by you have to find a rule that says you CAN do it, to do it.

    In this case the rules allow him to generate a power dice for his army yes, and sure he could even know a spell... which would do him no good, since no rule of the default thrall, the default bloodline changes, or those two items makes him a Level 1 Wizard which is the 3rd requirement to cast a spell and use X number of dice towards that spell casting. No rule says a non-1st Level Wizard can channel even 1 dice. Again as I said before, just because the book says Level 1 Wizards can channel 2 dice per spell is not sufficient for someone to claim a non-Wizard status character can channel 1.

    In fact reading the BrB, all references to casting a spell refer to the caster having to be a Wizard, with the capital W. That means from the BrB only Wizards of Level 1 and up can cast spells because they're the only ones mentioned in the process. Doing anything else means you have to be able to point to specifically where you're being allowed to do it. If nothing you've taken directly moves you to that status, and no FAQ or Errata from GW says otherwise, you are NOT a Wizard no matter what else you do and are only eligable to use bound items... NOT cast spells.

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    In fact reading the BrB, all references to casting a spell refer to the caster having to be a Wizard, with the capital W. That means from the BrB only Wizards of Level 1 and up can cast spells because they're the only ones mentioned in the process. Doing anything else means you have to be able to point to specifically where you're being allowed to do it. If nothing you've taken directly moves you to that status, and no FAQ or Errata from GW says otherwise, you are NOT a Wizard no matter what else you do and are only eligable to use bound items... NOT cast spells.
    You can't even use bound items if they are classified as "Arcane" unless you have a wizard level... check the miscast result of 10? (the one where you lose a wizard level).

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    Quote Originally Posted by moob View Post
    You can't even use bound items if they are classified as "Arcane" unless you have a wizard level... check the miscast result of 10? (the one where you lose a wizard level).
    Their basic Nech bloodline abilities, the ones they don't need to pay for, let them get around this.
    They are non-wizards, who can use Arcane items. It actually specifically says they may use arcane items in their army book.

    It never says they are a Wizard though, and in fact they have a specific bloodline power meant for Thralls they must take to be so and cast spells (Nekharas N. Blood), and the power mentioned to get them the knowledge of an extra spell specifically states it does NOT increase their magic level (so they still NOT Wizards).

    At this point I have checked their FAQ on the GW site, and I found a GT rules list, and as far as I can see nothing but NNB makes them a Lvl 1 Wizard and lets them CAST spells of their own {which is not the same as invoking bound items, heck some bound items in some lists aren't even arcane so it's already established non-wizards can use bound spells}.

    So without NNB power...
    -They may use bound items
    -They may generate dice for the army (note the power doesn't say they generate the dice for themselves it says for the common pool)
    -They may even know a spell (thought it's a waste and a bloodline power meant for higher level vamps)
    But
    -They cannot cast that spell without a level of Wizard, which only 1 power gives them, and it's exclusive at that Hero value (due to it's cost vs how much a Hero can take).

    So in summary
    Nech Thralls MAY use bound items/spells
    Nech Thralls MAY NOT cast spells, with only ONE exception, they take the NBB power

    Arcane items have never been the sole providence of Wizards, exceptions have always existed but Nothing but being a Wizard, makes you a Wizard.

    I'm not always right... you can check with Rork if you want or email GW or the GT folks... but at this point I've browsed the BrB section, the Nech powers section, and the Nech base bloodline section, and I'd be surprised if any other source disagreed with me. Nothing is allowing a non-Wizard to cast irregardless of any other factors. And it's a big, unsupported leap of the rules otherwise to allow it unless you can find something somewhere which says it is allowed.
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    o/

    BFGM covers it. Normally models needs to be wizards to carry arcane items, but necrarch thralls are an exception. NNB is required if you want to be a "proper" wizard and cast spells, of course.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rork View Post
    o/

    BFGM covers it. Normally models needs to be wizards to carry arcane items, but necrarch thralls are an exception. NNB is required if you want to be a "proper" wizard and cast spells, of course.
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    Last edited by BFGMidwesternPrisoner; June 21st, 2007 at 20:36. Reason: Why climb a mountain?
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