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Ive been writing this over the last few days and have reached a point where I'm going to need some feedback. If this needs to be moved somewhere can a friendly mod point this out to me thank you!
There are several threads in the WoC area that are great at helping out new players but I thought that I'd try and collect some of the themes together.*
What style of army?
This can be a tricky decision with many possibilities however a standard build can use different marks to change its options.*
The army book lends itself to a heavy footslogging list with a few support units. This style of army is the one you are likely to see fielded more often than not. It's core will be 2-3 units of warriors a sorcerer lord a bsb and probably a second sorcerer. This will be supported by combinations taken from hellcannons, warshrines, marauder hordes, dogs, chosen etc.*
Many of the support options will change to support minor variations in the list but the core will most often be warriors supported by magic.*
So how do I choose a style of army then?*
Well unless you go for a monster list or a marauder only list, or even a cavalry heavy list your best bet is to decide on the core warriors and what you want them to do.*
Chaos warriors are probably the hardest core unit in the game with high stats across the board and lots of options. They are also well priced with 16 points being the basic equipped cost.*
Firstly the size of the unit must be considered. Warriors rely heavily on doing damage so frontage is important. My experience has led me to using a width of 6 as the standard unit size. So how many ranks? For your core units 18 is a good size giving you three ranks. It will put out damage but also has a couple of ranks.*
So I have a unit of warriors what now? Well get two of them to have a solid battle line but they need to do something so weaponry it is.*
Weaponry generally complements the mark given and vice versa although most options work across the board.*
For a unit that just wants to be a bunker or anvil go for tzeentch and shields that gives you a 3+ and 5++ keeping your guys alive.*
Want to kill hordes then khorne and additional hand weapons is a good bet giving your guys 4 attacks each but only a 4+ in combat.*
Against harder stuff halberds buffs your strength this can work with tzeentch to get a 6+ ward in combat or khorne to get the three str5 attacks for blending ogres.*
Nurgle is generally not as good on warriors. It can be interesting reducing the enemies abilities but is better left for themed lists.*
Overall then you have three standard builds shields and tzeentch for staying alive.*
Additional hand weapons and khorne for blending low strength hordes.*
Halberds and tzeentch with shields for a nice catch all unit.*
So personally I take two units of 18 tzeentch and shield units for the core of my list to hold as anvils and I use the rest of my army to help these units win combats.*
So do I take command on these units?*
Personally I say yes. Take the full command. The banner gives you the extra combat res and is also needed for your magical banners (see below) musician for those moments when you fluff your attack rolls is also very useful.*
Champion however is the source of much debate. Many people leave them out as its a lot to pay for a single extra attack. If you have a character in the unit always take a champion that way they won't end up munched in a challenge or in the case of non sorcerers it allows you to kill a lot of enemy troops.*
Chaos lords look amazing on paper and have amazing stats. They can be made even better with the use of magic items however this all comes at a cost. You will be paying around 350pts for one man. For that many points you can get a unit of warriors who give the same damage output if not more. They can be fun but much as they will win challenges they are better employed taking out units.*
Mount wise you can make a lord on dragon who kicks out 3 templates and has an impressive amount of attacks however he is extremely expensive.*
In conclusion a very good character but not the most optimum one in the book.*
Again this guy tends to be like the lord; too expensive. However upgrade this guy to a bsb and he suddenly becomes worth the points. A magic standard, halberd and mark of tzeentch is a common setup. If you want more survivability swap the magic standard for a ward and armour or something similar.*
This guy is commonly seen as army general and upgraded to level 4. Often bunkered in a unit with the black tongue or puppet. He has access to armour and the stat line of a warrior meaning he can be tricked out to survive frontline combat and challenges which is often a nasty surprise for an unsuspecting opponent. This guy can be mounted but I'll talk about that later.*
Again a common and reasonably priced character. Unusually he is cheaper than the combat hero meaning he is a great choice for general in low point games. Good to use at lvl 2 as a backup caster and scroll caddy leaving your lvl 4 points for armour and weapons. Again mounts will be discussed below.*
Knights used to be amazing at smashing through enemy units but 8th ed has needed that ability to a certain extent. Knights can still be competitive but avoid lances as the standard weapons are so good! Unless you make knights a feature of your front line using a large unit or possibly characters like archaon they are better off deployed on the flank. A unit of 5 with no command and the mark of nurgle can work well as they will be harder to shoot and hopefully less of a worry for your opponent which leaves them to do their job. As far as their job is concerned they are best used to try and hit the flank of one of your opponents main line units. They are still powerful enough to cause damage but need to be supported with one of your infantry blocks to convert that into a win.*
I personally use a block of 10 with standard, musician and nurgle. The reason for a lack of champion is so that no challenges can take place. If you are running up the flank you may encounter independent characters and rather than challenge you want to hit them with multiple knights giving you a great combat edge. Knights can be expensive but if used correctly can turn a flank leaving your core warriors to pile into the middle and win.*
Warshrines add a very characterful element to any warriors army and can also be very effective.*
Essentially it is a support unit that is there to give units a buff that can range from the ok to the really good. Often taken in conjunction with a chosen deathstar to make a n ultimate combat unit they also appear in many other styles.*
The model it's benefits from an average save and a decent ward save. Ally this with its high toughness *and it's quite hard to kill. Unfortunately it's attack output is limited so it is best left to hiding behind warriors or a last ditch flank charge. Whilst its primary purpose is to buff your units (something I will speak about more below) it can fill other support roles. As said above for an additional charge to support warriors it can help top combat in your favour. It's good protection means you won't be giving away any combat res only gaining it. Do not use it to charge in alone. As the damage output is low the combat will often end with the enemy just using combat res. this will mean you lose. You also don't have stubborn or Unbreakable meaning you stand a higher chance of running.*
These reasons are why it's not a great flank defender. It can however be used to redirect flank charges or stall them for a turn if near the bsb which is always useful.*
Mark wise tzeentch is commonly used to up its already good ward save. Other than that the other marks can be hit or miss leading many to save the points for a mark or banner on something else.*
Buffing units is the reason for taking one of these. While it can be argued that it's an expensive magic banner this is not its primary use.*
Unit buffs can be placed where needed when needed. If the favour of the gods is in the unit this can make your roll more reliable. For example +1 armour on a marauder horde will most of the time be pointless but +1 attack can make them into sheer filth.*
Personally I run two shrines if I take any and have them behind the main line. They then buff the units on the way into combat in an attempt to get extra toughness or armour to help on the way in. When in combat I evaluate which unit is going to struggle the most and use the shrines to buff that unit. In essence it is exactly the same way of choosing as when you have a spell that buffs. That way you can tip a combat heavily in your favour allowing you to break through the line. It's advantage comes when that unit is out of combat. You can now buff the other combat unit. In this way the extra over a magic standard is justifiable. In a pinch buffing itself it is caught in combat can be very good giving it stubborn or extra strength allowing it to either stay around or hit out in combat.*
Overall a good stopgap measure that allows you an edge of flexibility on the battlefield unless you can only roll 7 on 2d6!
Enjoy more will follow any advice help etc would be appreciated.
Chaos Warriors with frenzy and/or extra hand weapon are REALLY good at assaulting buildings. Because it's 10 vs 10 (or 10 vs 3 monstrous infantry), you can really pile on the attacks. It's quite effective. You just have to be able to win over the rounds fast enough to prevent the adversary from bringing reinforcements (because the defender occupying the building is stubborn).
yea we need a good tactica. I started a thread over on our local game store forum, salvaging what i could here from an old tactics thread. Im hoping to finish it within the year and fancy it up. It was really well done, just very loosely organized
Realised I hadn't posted these up!
In the current rules war hounds aren't the best choice however they can be useful. Don't forget they don't go towards your core points percentage. Their main use is as a flanking distraction and redirection unit. They can also be used as a screen for your main line. Their other use is deployment drops so you can see where your opponent is deploying before putting down your nice big block of Killy warriors. Do bear in mind this will often lose you first turn so it can be a little pointless if you have a set deployment I your head.*
Normally units of five are used but units that are slightly bigger can also work if you have a few spare points. Run them into flanking light cavalry or at line characters and warmachines. They won't do much damage but it'll keep the heat off of your main line. Flank charges against weak units such as empire state troops can work but be careful as you don't have a save so the +2 won't mean much if you take three dead.*
Hellcannons can be a fun unit to use and for what you pay they are very reasonably priced.*
Many people say look at those stats use them as a charging monster and yes this can be good but as a shooting unit they can do well and really surprise an enemy.*
Used for shooting.*
Stick them between your warriors units and pop off shots on their bigger units to reduce the enemy down a little this is great against hordes but is most useful reducing units that are set to give a lot of ranks for steadfast. Much as warriors are good at milling units you don't want to be stuck for 8 rounds of combat and then get flank charged. Shooting also forced a panic at -1 if you kill at least one enemy. Try combining this with doom and darkness or any other minus leadership spell or banner and it could bet you some good results.*
Using him as a monster can be effective but dont go after strong hitting units whatever you do. A friend of mine charged his into my greatswords fluffed his attacks and got it killed in one round. Even with a good round it would have been minced. Try flank charges and supporting units if possible. If you leave him behind your warriors units and they lose there won't be many enemy models left in that unit so he can mop them up.*
Overall he is good in combat but you pay for the shooting ability so use it.*
Spawn can be fun but are hit and miss a bad lot of rolls and they will just crawl across the battlefield. Their stats are quite good but they are most useful when marked. As a flanking unit they can take on most other flanking light cavalry and small units thus protecting your main blocks of warriors.*
Again not all properly fleshed out especially the spawn will add them all together in the top post when I get some feedback.