Aparantly, GW has made it illegal for anyone to sell its product online. Usually, this would be against U.S. law, but GW is doing it anyway becuase they are a UK based company. Furthermore, they are attacking, and taking legal action against all companies that sell thier product online(example FPR games). So they are even attacking U.S. based buissinesses, even though those companies would normally be protected by U.S. law. So basically they found a loophole and are taking advatage of it. Monopolies are illegal in america for a reason, becuase it is unethical.

The other day, a GW employee asked me if i had the fantasy rulebook and i said it was coming in the mail. He asked me if i got it from GW and i said no. He started like scolding me and saying i was breaking the law and was making me very uncomfortable and wouldn't stop. And then he kept pressuring me to tell him the company so he could report them to GW. Of course i refused to tell him(It was BWbits i got it from) Then he kept saying i needed to buy the book from GW, and pressuring me to buy it there.

Point 1: GW are not a monopoly.

Point 2: Have you got a better source than some guy at GW? IIRC, a year or two ago GW only sold to bricks and mortar shops rather than pure online stores. So as long as the store had a physical shop you could walk into, GW would sell to them (which included stores that also had a webstore in addition to their traditional outlet).

(Which is why BWbits opened a 'proper' store before being sold on)

I don't really see the problem here, GW gets the money anyway in the long run, coz how do they get the stock in the first place? I'm from the Uk, and I don't know anything about this, but i could look into it here if you want?

Agreed though its a little silly :sleep:

I'm sorry, I simply couldn't let the spelling error in the title of this thread go. It bugged me too much >.<

Point 1: GW are not a monopoly.


Its think though your not allowed to restrict who can sell something in anyway, so it would be an online monopoly(I'm not sure if its illegal, but it is certainly unethical to first sell a product to a company and then attack them for selling it online). Well several online buissinesses have been forced to take GW items off thier item list becuase GW took legal action against them.

ummm... not sure about this. sounds a lil strange to me, i mean- Games workshop have lots of shops etc that they sell stock to, which the shops then supply on (independent stockists etc), you're saying that games workshop are cracking down on shops that are selling their products that they've aquired WITHOUT being an official stockist?

That means, the stuff is either; 1) second hand 2) nicked, or 3) not done through GW so not bought at stock price then sold on to customers at regular prices.


I work for games workshop, but as "blueshirt" rather than anyone high up so cant speak for the company, but on the whole the only people we discourage from picking products up elsewhere are people who constantly use ebay on the grounds that the stock on ebay isn't monitered, can be dodgy and have tales of people who've had bad experiences with (including myself!).

We're hobbyists as well as staff members, and believe it or not we're not always trying to screw you guys over :P

Dude this is not very fair at all. GW does effectively have a monopoly over Warhammer 40k, Warhammer, and LOTR, it sucks really bad that they found this loop hole. I wonder how many online stores are still going to sell? Very few but hey... as long as we get the product I am happy.

Its think though your not allowed to restrict who can sell something in anyway, so it would be an online monopoly(I'm not sure if its illegal, but it is certainly unethical to first sell a product to a company and then attack them for selling it online). Well several online buissinesses have been forced to take GW items off thier item list becuase GW took legal action against them.

GW are selling their own product, that does not constitute a monopoly.

A monopoly is when a company uses its market dominance to either make excessive profits or restrict the products of competitors (at the most basic level). GW would not attempt to shut down an online store if it solely sold Privateer Press, for example (There would be no legal case).

If GW signed an agreement with a store that forced them to stock only GW goods, then that could be considered monopolistic. The classic example in the US was the Bell telephone corporation which kept phone call prices artificially high. Microsoft frequently has to deal with anti-trust cases and EU competition commission fines as a further example.

Basically, GW wants US retailers to sell the hobby, not just the product - i.e. you can try out the game and get the advice rather than just buy off a website. So if a store has both a store with some sort of gaming area and an online store, GW is happy with that it seems.

I suspect it was written into the reseller's contract that they should be able to demonstrate the game in some way - something a purely online operation wouldn't be capable of doing. While it doesn't really suit people angling for a cheap deal, GW is setting the terms for being an independent stockist.

It would have made very little difference to GW - the wholesale price for both the traditional and online stores would have been the same.


Dude this is not very fair at all. GW does effectively have a monopoly over Warhammer 40k, Warhammer, and LOTR


Fallacy. Any product you make is your own, and you can control it as you see fit. There are alternatives to warhammer in the wargames market. GW and Warhammer do not have a monopoly in the wargames market.

There is a fundamental misunderstanding over what a monopoly actually is.

As has been posted already; it's my understand that GW has a few requirements for their independent retailers to be able to sell their product online, the major one being the simple fact that the retailer has to have an actual phyical sale point, and not simply exist as an online retailer only. It seems alittle unfair at first, and, can be a pain if you live in an area without a local store (like I do), but, in the end, the intent is good.

And if ANY employee at ANY retail store, no matter what they're selling, ever treated me like the original posted described, I'd ask that employee to speak to his manager and make it very clear that it's attitudes like that that hinder sales and promote dealings with other retailers. Customer service is a must in any retail business, and, if the employees make you feel uncomfortable, take away what they need the most; your money.

We're hobbyists as well as staff members, and believe it or not we're not always trying to screw you guys over :P

No! You do it sneakily! Disguising it as hobby advice! :shifty:Take this for example; I walked into one GW store intent on just buying the Eisenhorn trilogy. Ten minutes later you had silvertongued your way into making me buy 'Ravenor' and 'Grey Knights' too! Grrr you sneaky fellows you! lol I am of course joking i don't mind, they're really good.:D

Onto a more serious note, i think i understand where GW are coming from now. Online selling means that stolen and second hands stuff can be sold, where they lose profit, as in 'material shops' this cannot happen. But then again what about official online shops?

From what I've read on sites that sell GW stuff, you just can't buy it with a "shopping cart" and I think they can't list what they have online. You can order via fax, email, or phone, though. So it's not like it's impossible to get GW stuff online.

I agree it is really dumb to tell people how they can or can't sell stuff.

I agree it is really dumb to tell people how they can or can't sell stuff.

Fundamentally, it's about image. It's like corporate sponsorship in sport (motor racing, say). The sponsors want to be associated with a winning team or driver, and one that suits their corporate values.

If that team/driver gets caught cheating/taking drugs/doing something wrong, the sponsor might very drop them because of the association with something negative (and can reflect negatively on the sponsor).

The same goes for GW. If a retailer is just selling GW models for money and not supporting the gamer/hobbyist, it doesn't reflect well on GW and its games.

Compared to the UK where there is a GW shop in most major towns and cities, GW doesn't have that level of penetration in the US. To get people interested in the game, people have got to have somewhere they can experience the game and get a feel for the product.

While Games Workshop as a business is about selling models, those models alone are not enough to get new people in to the hobby - the background, the social experience and fun involved make up the complete package. It also establishes a place where people can go to play GW games, and in turn buy more GW stuff.

So to those already 'sold' on GW games (often with somewhere to play), the decision does not appear to be in their interest. But in terms of GW's business expansion and long term growth (and maintaining that), games stores in the US make more sense than online stores.

I am a business.

Vendor A stocks my product in a store. She recruits new customers from foot traffic in the mall. She provides a place for prospective customers to enjoy my product and meet other people who use my product (usually at her expense). Growing her business depends on working to also grow my business. She is likely an enthusiast about my product and/or similar products. She fills a niche market for a particular Geographic region, so the nature of the type of product she stocks is important to her business.

Vendor B sells my product out of the spare room in his house. He does not expend any time or effort on growing my business. He just undercuts Vendor A, selling to people who learned about my product through other channels. He has no particular investment in my particular product line. If I go out of business he can just as easily switch to discounting designer knockoff perfumes or performance car parts.

So who am I going to support through policy and go to bat for in court if necessary? The notion that 'GW gets the same wholesale price either way' is preposterously short sighted.

Now I know full well 'Vendor B' does not describe BWBits any more than 'Vendor A' describes the crabby comic shop owner with a few GW blisters in the back who treats everyone like an already convicted shoplifter. However, special cases and testimonials from an enthusiast community do not reliable market data make.

I didn't understand a word Inquisitor Affe said... but...

However, special cases and testimonials from an enthusiast community do not reliable market data make.

He speaks like Yoda, and thus I am obliged to follow him. :D

On a serious note,.. i think that his posts puts the point across very accurately and very bluntly. :)

As much as it sucks for the consumers (us), it's kinda obvious why GW are doing this.. and if we were in the same position, we would do the same thing.

It's simpler than that even...

GW makes a product. Let's say that everything taken into account, it costs GW 10 bucks to make the product, box, and everything else associated. They determine the retail price is 30 bucks.

For a retailer to make money from selling the product, they have to be able to buy the product at a discount. Let's say that GW sells the above product to a retailer for 15 bucks, who in turn, sells it to you for 30.

At that point, the transaction stops. For each product sold from the retailer, GW makes 5 bucks- it costs them 10 bucks to make the product, they sell it to the retailer for 15. The retailer sells it to you for 30, so they, the game store, makes 15 bucks.

Now, let's say you decide to buy direct from GW via the website. They sell you the same product for 30 bucks. Now instead of only making 5 bucks on each product, they're making 20 bucks because they cut out the middleman. Obviously, this is advantageous to GW as it equates to an increased profit, and it works for the customer because it's the same price as it is in any GW store since it is GW's policy to fix prices and not allow their stockists, independent or otherwise, to change price points.

There's no other reason to buy from someone else's internet store because the price is always the same in any given country GW does business in.

This policy of not allowing internet sales is in place to make GW money. That's it.

Odd business practice? To be sure. But it isn't a monopoly and does fall under any kind of anti-trust or anything else. It's GW's product and they can decide how you sell it if they want.

And as some sites have figured out, there are ways around it. It's just a pain because they can't advertise prices or anything- you have to call and typically that's enough to make people just say heck with it and buy from GW online.

Having done some stints in warehousing on the back end of retail, I'd be surprised to learn GW hauling in the cash on direct services (but who knows, really?). Individual pick&pack is a nightmare for a medium sized business. You need to either have the scale and capital of an amazon.com or be a small operation in a backroomt. (or be paying high fees to an intermediate warehouser who has scale like an Amazon) Lots of companies like Toys'R'Us found this out the hard way when they tried to go online 6-7 years ago. Direct services staff need pay and benefits. They need capital, office space and computers. Warehousing ain't cheap, and I don't think direct services does much on-demand production anymore.


Since none of us (openly at least) work inside GW corporate, it's a bunch of speculation anyway =). It's entirely possible direct services just sits on their own little pile of inventory and essentially does work like a backroom operation.

Now, let's say you decide to buy direct from GW via the website. They sell you the same product for 30 bucks. Now instead of only making 5 bucks on each product, they're making 20 bucks because they cut out the middleman. Obviously, this is advantageous to GW as it equates to an increased profit, and it works for the customer because it's the same price as it is in any GW store since it is GW's policy to fix prices and not allow their stockists, independent or otherwise, to change price points.

Case in point most retailiers that sell gw for less are takeing a chance of getting in trouble with thier vendors if they get caught. Bottom line it's thier License and intellectual property. They can do what they want and like karmoon says we probably would to .

but on the whole the only people we discourage from picking products up elsewhere are people who constantly use ebay on the grounds that the stock on ebay isn't monitered, can be dodgy and have tales of people who've had bad experiences with (including myself!).


The real reason you discourage ebay is because you don't make a profit from second hand minis.

I've actually had very good experiences buying and selling warhammer on ebay, and now a days its the only way I get my warhammer gear. The dodgyness you talk about is easily preventable if you take precautions.

Lol, yes but remember we're not on commission or anything, i dont EVER encourage anyone to buy anything that i wouldn't.

I've been in this hobby for 17yrs, and dont regret a day of it. For example, mr "i went in to buy Eisenhorn and all i got was this crappy t-shirt..." - did you enjoy Ravenor?

I frequently get people who complain at being asked "do you have glue?" when they buy some models, yet also get people who come back in and say "oops i ran out of glue"

ps: if you've not read them yet, check out the Ciaphus books they're fantastic :P also, need glue with those?