Recently I’ve been toying with that anomaly of imperial battleships, the apocalypse.

Generally considered the worst of the four prime battleships the apocalypse seems to lack any real advantage other than that fearsome lance armourment and that’s cursed with short range. The ship its self suffers from the 15cm turn syndrome making it very difficult to employ in battle. Between these problems and its rather high points cost (matching the emperor class) it seems the world has it in for the poor apocalypse class.

Or does it?

Recently I’ve been looking into the more obscure ships in the imperial fleet and i've come to the conclusion that the apocalypse class has potential if we look at it in a certain way.

Firstly when we look at the ship its self our eyes are often drawn to that rule down the bottom. Having to damage your self to fire at long range? It’s pretty horrendous. However nothing in the rules says anything about actually using that rule. The apocalypse can use those lances under 30cm after all, which brings me to my second point.

the imperial navy is a get in-between the enemy kind of fleet. Move directly at the enemy, launch torpedoes to clear a path then move into the space caused and broadside anything within 30cm. where both the Oberon and the emperor class are clearly not good ideas for this roll and doing the same would be wasting the retributions superior range (better served on the outside edge of a formation i would think) we are left with the apocalypse class and its 12 lances in a situation where 30cm's is all it needs.

Placed at the centre of the formation perhaps in the second line behind the torpedo cruisers the apocalypse presents the opportunity to seriously rend 2 enemy ships if you can knock their shields down. 6 lances with lock on pretty much means a crippled 8hit cruiser after all and you still have those weapon batteries.

But what of the approach? Well for that the apocalypse sports a nova cannon. While probably better served with a 9 strong torpedo wave the nova cannon isn't all that bad when you team it with a mars class and a possible dominator (if you so happen to make use of the reserves rules). This makes it even more ideal for its second rank placement in a fleet as there are no concerns about launching torpedoes into the rear of the cruiser in front of it and lets you bombard the enemy with gleeful abandon at no risk to your own ships.

Returning to the range 60 problems when we look at what the apocalypse has to offer with such a range. Quite simply it has the range to reach out and break something... in half. Due to having to be locked on to use the extended range we end up with a horrendously accurate assault on nearby enemy ships from a tremendous range. Something none of the other battleships can only dream of; for example an emperor class blasting a cruiser at long range with all of its weapon batteries only gets 8 shots against a closing target. with anything above 4+ armour the advantage suddenly has swung in favour of the apocalypse class.

Emperor at long range with lock on against 5+ armour.
8 shots - approx 3 hits. 5 re-rolled shots - approx 2 hits. Total = 5 hits

Apocalypse at long range with lock on against 5+ armour
Weapon batteries shots: 3 shots - 1 hit, re-rolled shots - approx 1 hit. Total 2 hits
Lances: 6 shots. 3 hit. 3 re-rolled shots - approx 2 hits. Total = 5 hits


now obviously this is math hammer and I hate to dirty my hands with it but its the only way I can point out how underestimated the apocalypse class is. while admittedly the emperor class is in no way only a gunship and also sports its huge numbers of fighters and bombers. Its considered one of the strongest broadsides in the game and was by far the best comparison (also being the favourite battleship of choice for imperial players).

When you consider those numbers, 5 hits against 7, its not too hard to consider how the gap would increase if the enemy were moving away (unlikely for anyone but eldar which you REALLY don't want an apoc against anyways) or abeam (significantly more likely).

We however pay the price for this tremendous accuracy with that critical to our thrusters, causing a point of damage and stopping us from turning (boo!). Consider however that critical hits are repaired in the end phase and it being your turn you can repair the very turn you take the critical. With 11 remaining hit points its not too far a stretch to consider being able to repair the apocalypse’s turning after you fire the extreme range lance assault. In fact when you are firing the lances at long range you're not able to turn due to lock on anyways. :party2:


Is the apocalypse the worst of the three battleships? Probably. But is it useless? I think not. With several very easy to look over but none the less large advantages in its favour it’s found a way into my tactics and will undergo a period of testing very soon. I’ll update accordingly on how it goes but for now I’d like you hear what you all think of my inane rambling.


:C

good work arky! i love it when people find uses for little used things.
*rep*

You still have the range issue when you compair the Emperor and Apocalypse. You show the Emperor firing at it's long range, then show the Apoc firing at it's short range.

Why not show the Emperor at the short range?

16 Firepower - 11 Shots - 4 hits (rounding up) - reroll 7 shots - 2 hits.

So that comes down to 6 hits. BUT the key point about this, is that the Emperor is going to get 1, if not 2 of those long range shots in before it gets within 30cm.

So now you've gotta figure that the Emperor will put out 11 hits for every 7 hits. We could go into the assualt boats/bombers, but we're counting 11 hits so far so even with shields, that cruiser is gone.

The Apoc is really a worthless Battleship. There is ALWAYS a better choice to bring along for the point value.

also the fact that the emp has ordnance, but thats not the point.
arky is showing that there is a use for the apocalypse, its not as obviously good as the other ships, but there is value and much flavor in including one.

You could take two Gothics for the price of 1 Apocalypse.

It'll be cheaper, you'll be faster, you'll have more lances, and can still lay down some ordnance.

There is nothing at all wrong with bringing an Apoc. if your looking for variety. But it really cannot stand up against the other Battleships, in any aspect.

I have an Apocalypse, and quite like the ship. Mostly because my other Battleship is the Emperor, and after reading the rules I found out I'm not a fan of fighters or bombers. The Retribution is probably more effective pointswise, but I don't have one. :S

I don't tink that the Apocalypse is so bad that it will lose games for you. Sure if you are playing tournaments it might not be the best ship, but in friendlies I have quite enjoyed taking it.

Not that id know for sure but I reckon the apocalypse would have a fair bit of a psychological effect on the field of battle. If I were the enemy and I saw a monster lance and nova cannon battleship bearing down apon me at top speed unlike other BS's which sit back and let the cruisers do the ram-raiding, i'd be a bit more inclined to shoot at it with everything I have rather than tackle the cruisers.

But also a lack of ordanance isn't necsasarily a bad thing, it means that more time can be spent locking on or going to all ahead full. come to think of it, it is the only battleship which can do so, the rest all have ordanance.

anyway, tis just my five cents.

You still have the range issue when you compair the Emperor and Apocalypse. You show the Emperor firing at it's long range, then show the Apoc firing at it's short range.

actually I did both at long range. 6 weapon batteries firing at a closing target at long range qualifies for 3 shots and seeing as lances are not effected for short range.. :P

If we look at the shots for short range the emperor is indeed better in terms of weapon batteries but when we compare the full strength of the apocalypse's own weapon batteries at normal range it actualy ends up supirior once more with 5 lance hits and the shots from the S6 weapon battery (i would assume 5 shots at closing), but I was making the point of the apocalypse class as a long range weapons platform when firing at extended range and lock on. A roll in which is superior to its 3 counterparts. (with perhaps the exception of the retribution class.)

in this situation it is definitely 7 hits vs. 5. at shorter range i would suspect the emperor pulls a head but in turn the apoc’s weapon batteries no longer suffer their one column shift to the right and would get more shots in turn, not as many I grant you but enough to still make it worth while. Not to mention that the apocalypse is more effective in a “surrounded by the enemy” situation.

In regards to the two gothics. I will have to agree that they would be overall better than the apocalypse class but that could be said for almost any battleship in the game with perhaps only the emperor class as an exception.

There is nothing at all wrong with bringing an Apoc. if your looking for variety. But it really cannot stand up against the other Battleships, in any aspect.

again i must disagree. the apocalypse clearly outguns the emperor class at long range and until i can get home and check the maths I theorise that it outguns the emperor at short range. this is still of course only counting a single broadside. when faced with 2 targets in two arcs the emperor is only able to fire 11 weapon batteries each if it wants to evenly damage them. othewise it must resort to damaging one with its 16 shot attack and the second with a 6 shot attack. however the apocalypse in comparison has another 6(!) lances to attack the enemy ship with. while lacking the weapon batteries to soften up the shields (they being occupied with the other enemy ship) you still have those mighty 5 hits when locked on (statistically speaking). 6 locked on lances vs. 6 locked on weapon batteries? lances please.

to say the apocalypse class is useless is in my opinion somewhat of a closed insular comment. it still sports by far the single most powerful lance array of any single ship in the game after all (as far as i know only certain space stations can match it lance for lance) and while it has some major downsides i theorise that the advantages listed above make up for that and make it a worth while investment. While not as useful as an emperor class i don't think the two ships can be compared in any respect other than firepower as tactically the two ships perform completely different roles. the emperor moving at an angle behind the cruiser line using its long range and launch bays to support the fleet while the apocalypse takes an active role within the cruiser line and moves to engage the enemy directly and preferably at close range.
My choice of comparison being based on firepower and the emperors awesome broadside (which is outclassed by the Oberon but as we know its less common)

While on paper it looks sub par the same can be said for any of the lance boat ships. on paper each has statistically a woeful chance of defeating enemy ships but as I’m sure we can all attest to when in the company or support of a good gun ship (dominators, tyrants, overlords, retributions) they and tare and rend a ship into not much more than space debris.


EDIT: got home and checked my book and gunnery tables. the apoc gets 4 weapon battery shots at short range rather than 3 and its equals out at just over another 2-3 hits with the weapon batteries bringing the apocalypses short range fire to 7-8. still superior to the emperor class.

and as a sidenote, when one formulates the points the apocalypse is dead on for a battleship with 30cm lances, the extra 60cm option is completely free.

I think the fact that the Apoc kept lancing me in the face all game demonstrates how powerful it is.