hey, just wondering what your guy's pet peeves/annoyances are of any aspect of the hobby is; whether its about gaming, modeling, or painting...

ill start with four of my own:

1) in GW's, overweight gamers knocking over models with their belly when bending over the table...
2) obviously, unpainted armies on a really nice table...
3) spray paint getting on your "trigger" finger when you spray models, since its annoying to get off sometimes...
4) lastly, getting green stuff super glued beneath my finger nail..

I'd say that having unpainted armies/units on the table is my pet peeve. I've followed a simple rule since I've started playing 40k: If it isn't painted and based, it cannot be fielded in a game. Another annoyance is players who haven't figured out how the core rules work.

Painting doesnt bother me at all. Of course my group games with figures we've had for 17 years and never painted...

My peeves:
1. people who take the game too seriously
2. cheating
3. people who take the game too seriously
4. elitism against newer/less-experienced/less serious gamers
5. rudeness
6. staff at GW stores

Soo...I guess my peeves all come down to players with bad attitudes. It is supposed to be fun.

Painting doesnt bother me at all. Of course my group games with figures we've had for 17 years and never painted...

My peeves:
1. people who take the game too seriously
2. cheating
3. people who take the game too seriously
4. elitism against newer/less-experienced/less serious gamers
5. rudeness
6. staff at GW stores

Soo...I guess my peeves all come down to players with bad attitudes. It is supposed to be fun.

I could type my own list, but you hit the nail on the head.

Tekore

6. staff at GW stores

lol yeah, sometimes their appearance just bothers me a little, and discourages me from listening to them or buying something you know...maybe it has something to do with the crooked/missing teeth? or "dragon breath"...idk lol

My only peeve is that when something changes, and there have been a lot over the last 20 odd years, everyone acts like its the end of the world.

The complete lack of a wonderful thing called deodorant.

Lets see:

1. People who cheat and become angry when they get caught
2. People who don't know the rules but have had time to learn them
3. People who think they know the rules and while adamantly defend their point of view without provinding a thread of evindence
4. Unpainted armies which have had enough time to be painted (Im guilty of this one)
5. Lists that are tooled up to beat a specific army and are just created prior to a game against said army
6. People that take too much time to play the game (at least in a tourny setting)
7. People who dont own a rulebook and refuse to buy one
8. People who dont have their appropriate codex and will provide rules that seem suspicious
9. Mold lines on GW models

Im sure there's more, but I can't think of any right now...

If it isn't painted and based, it cannot be fielded in a game.

I agree with the models having to be painted, but most/everything having to be based is a bit to much if you ask me. (Yes it makes the models and army look much better most of the time, but not everyone is into basing their models.)

Biggest pet peeve was going into a GW, starting a game with someone, making the list on the spot before knowing what my opponent is playing, and then finding out they altered their already highly competative list to be better against my army. (I usually didn't start up a game until about fifteen minutes after getting there, enough time for most people available to know what army(ies) I had at the time.) It was more of a bad luck thing but it always led to a pretty crappy six turns.

Yeah, tooling up your list to specifically take out someone is one of my pet peeves too. If you are playing in the store it should be an all-comers list. It makes it more fair and fun for everyone.

I have no problem with people having unpainted models, as some people are slow painters or just bought a new unit recently. What I do not like is people who proxy something without telling you that it is a proxy.

My pet peeve is getting loads of shallow cuts in my thumb when shaving off details or bitz...

i use my thumb as the "anvil" and so whenever i convert i get a dozen of shallow cuts... it's really annoying 'cuz it hurts ;)

unpainted models. i dont mind unbased, but unpainted is taking it to far.

cheaters.

people who take game to seriously.

sore losers.

sore winners.

People who have problems with people who don't paint their models. Some people just can't do it, and can't afford to pay someone to do it, so grow up and deal with it.

Giving yourself an extra half inch to inch of movement (purposefully or not).

RULES LAWYERING! Those people who try to twist the obvious intent of the writers to gain any advantage they can just drive me nuts.

Lets see:

9. Mold lines on GW models



This is the reason I often dont buy plastic minatures and have always preferred nicely posed metal minatures - even though they are heavy, they often have less moulding flash and I find it easier to get rid of.

Otherwise:

Power Gaming
'Shock & Awe' Tactics <-- People who play at such a speed you can barely keep up, it just seems like your models are disappearing from the table at high speed and there is nothing you can do about it (Usually combined with Power Gaming)

Oh and crappy opening times of GW stores - who the hell opens at 12.00?? mind you that is countered by sundays and thursday evenings.

In no particular order. Those with a * next to them, I have had the good fortune of not having them happen to me yet.

1. People who take the game too seriously*

2. People who take extreme powergaming lists in casual games

3. People who rip into your army, both inside and outside the hobby

4. People who don't offer constructive criticism on armies

5. Elitism from veterans towards new players*

6. Elitism from FB players towards 40k players

See a pattern? With a wargaming hobby, you come for the sunshine but stay for the people. If the people are being a pain, the hobby won't be as enjoyable.

Oh yeah, and I do actually enjoy removing moulding flash from models. It gives me a sense of satisfaction. Besides, some metal models have a bit of flash as well and that can be slightly more difficult to remove (I'M LOOKING AT YOU, GREY KNIGHTS!)

Oh yeah, and I do actually enjoy removing moulding flash from models. It gives me a sense of satisfaction. Besides, some metal models have a bit of flash as well and that can be slightly more difficult to remove (I'M LOOKING AT YOU, GREY KNIGHTS!)

what are you talking about GK don't have (remembers unusually high amount of flash in GK before having to put them all together) never mind, and one still has some beneath his backpack.

My BIGGEST pet peeve is: horribly painted armies, I have seen an army that had only 3 colours, black, red and dark blue, and the guy litterly just got a tank brush and brushed away at random parts of the model. and he just hated to lose, but my army beat him, and let's just say nobody drops my bike chaplain and gets away with it. yeah, that's a pet peeve too. "admiring" someones mini when your a sore loser and then "accidently" dropping it.

I've seen little kids who paint better than that, I'd rather that they be unpainted instead of a disgrace.

Multi-part metal models- i just get so frustrated trying to put them together (maybe that more to do with me being impatient!)

The constant updating of rules when simple errata would do- the core rules are fine as they are, we do not need constant updated versions!

People taking the whole game/hobby too seriously, its a game people, nothing more, nothing less

My peeves:
1. people who take the game too seriously
2. cheating
3. people who take the game too seriously
4. elitism against newer/less-experienced/less serious gamers
5. rudeness
6. staff at GW stores



Yep, Neurodisruptor has got it for me here 8Y


My BIGGEST pet peeve is: horribly painted armies, I have seen an army that had only 3 colours, black, red and dark blue, and the guy litterly just got a tank brush and brushed away at random parts of the model.

I've seen little kids who paint better than that, I'd rather that they be unpainted instead of a disgrace.

Yes! Finally someone who's in the same boat as me. I really really really hate people with crappy painted armies, although they probably can't paint for some reason or another. When I play against someone with a crappy painted army, I cringe big time, and try as hard as I can to wipe them off the board, hense my better gaming skills against such armies ^_^

The title of the Thread took me off balance here lol I thought it was about Pets! I thought WTF? :D

-Kai-Itza-

Yep, Neurodisruptor has got it for me here 8Y



Yes! Finally someone who's in the same boat as me. I really really really hate people with crappy painted armies, although they probably can't paint for some reason or another. When I play against someone with a crappy painted army, I cringe big time, and try as hard as I can to wipe them off the board, hense my better gaming skills against such armies ^_^

The title of the Thread took me off balance here lol I thought it was about Pets! I thought WTF? :D

-Kai-Itza-

To me, an opponent with a crappily painted army but a good gaming spirit is always preferable to someone with a tip-top army and a bad attitude.

1) Cheaters

2) Players that tailor their list against yours and the terrain while you're waiting for the damn game to start.

3) People who try to prove they're right about a rule by twisting the words of the BGB and STILL not make any sense while doing it.

4) People who don't know their codex. I don't mean a rule or 2.... more like not knowing whether wpns. are heavy/assault/rapid fire and just assuming they can shoot all the time.

5) Not shaking the dice when rolling. Those guys that seem to be positioning the dice in their hands on a certain number and rolling the dice in a certain direction and a certain strength to ensure they have decent rolls.

6) People who NEED to win, and if they lose will pretend it never happened.

However, the only thing the really irritates me about the hobby that isn't caused by the players are the high prices.

Man... so many elitists here with the painting peeves. Not everyone can paint very well. Also, some people don't have the time to paint or don't want to since they don't have too much time to do their conversion first. ( Myself :P )
It's a friendly game.... who cares if the army is painted. Unless it's a tournament, but you have to have them painted in one of those.

The grade-school caliber writing and proofreading of Games Workshop material. The product they put out is horrible. Sadly, their game is still fun, but that will change if the way they go about writing rules remains as utterly worthless as it is now.

Oh, and opponents who think of every explanation in the book - from bad luck to imbalanced armies to forgetfulness to flat out denial - for when they lose so long as complimenting their victorious opponent doesn't happen.

The grade-school caliber writing and proofreading of Games Workshop material. The product they put out is horrible. Sadly, their game is still fun, but that will change if the way they go about writing rules remains as utterly worthless as it is now.


Yeah, at one point we had the FAQ for the FAQ, great job GW, no really...!

The complete lack of a wonderful thing called deodorant.

Booyah! Gotta chime in on this one. Now, a younger person, 12-13-14 years old, I can understand. We've ALL been there, trying to process all the crazy changes that time of your life throws at you, and it can be hard for a budding teenager to guess when it's time to start adding that to the morning routine, but when I'm playing a guy who's been out of college for five years, and I can't stand closer than five feet from him without feeling nauseous, and that's if he DOESN'T lift an arm... I'm sorry, but that's just... nasty.

Re: painting. I have a personal rule that none of MY models hit the table without a passable (read: basecoat, wash, highlight) paint/basing job, but I'm not gonna turn up my nose at someone who has a few squads that are just primer or bare plastic/metal. Heck, even an entire army. Having painted up a full army myself, I know the time/effort commitment involved. I do believe people who build just to play and don't bother painting/converting are missing out on a major part of the hobby, and I appreciate a well-painted army, but to refuse to play someone due a lack of a paint job or otherwise punish them in public is just rude.

The only time a paint job ever bothered me was one guy I played with, who had marines. It looked like he dunked his brush in one of three different colors, and literally slapped his model with it. No, I mean it. There was a single brush stroke of one color on each shoulder pad, a single brush stroke of another color on the helmet, and one stroke on the torso and each leg in a third color. It almost struck me as his way of throwing an obscene gesture at some imaginary judge somewhere -- "There's your three colors, now shaddap and let me play!"

Even then I said nothing to him. It is, after all, just a game.

My biggest pet peeve is the poor rules support. I love the game and the hobby but honestly, anyone could do better than this. The product cycle on "rule books" is just too long. It shouldn't take "years" to get every codex out. Doing so results in some pretty old and outdated armies.

Beyond this, as active as the hobby is, a top tournament official should publish an official rules faq monthly. Numerous other games do this, I'm not sure why GW doesn't.

To me, it just seems like their development staff is too small. It is somewhat sad to shelf an army because you find out their new rule book won't be out until 2009 or 2010 and the current one doesn't really make them competative.

"There's your three colors, now shaddap and let me play!"


I found that mightily amusing for some reason.
I don't care about painted models to be honest.
Back when I was young and single I managed to paint a sizable marine army, huge nid army, small ork army, a decent sized guard army and a decent sized tau army, a dark elf army, as well as some chaos marines.
Now I have a family and a full time job, I get to play 1 game a week if I am lucky and nothing comes up. There is not a chance in hell I'll ever have time to paint a unit again. I'll be very lucky to assemble the firewarriors and skyray models that have been sitting in their boxes for the last 6 months sometime in the next few months.

If some punk kid comes up to me and gives me grief about why I'm using the skyray still on its sprue, I'll kick his ass!

6. Elitism from FB players towards 40k players



To be fair FB players wouldn't need to be elitist if 40k players would just acknowledge that they aren't clever enough to understand the rules for Fantasy ;Y (Disclaimer: This comment was made with my tongue wedged firmly in my cheek)

Someone mentioned deodorant (or the lack thereof) earlier and that struck a chord. I went to a GT qualifier at Warhammer World a couple of weeks ago, now before I left I had a shower using mint and tea tree oil shower gel and then sprayed deodorant on. I didn't burst into flame or anything and it didn't exactly take long. If only some of the other people playing had tried this.

I think these are pretty much in order:

1) Sore Winners

2) Cheaters

3) Power gamers (Not the lists, just the people who use them :P )

4) Sore Loosers

5) Paint Schemes with no effort put into them. No so much badly painted armies, just the ones where the owner doesnt really care how they look, so long as they are done.

6) People who ask you for the stats of their army

7) Opponants who dont know the to Hit and Wound charts. They are not hard to learn!


I tend to find the first 4, and occasionally 5, go hand in hand with a player.

Also ive just thought, as a Number 0 to that list for things that annoy me about the hobby, i think id have to put Games Workshop! :P


Im sorry, but i must admit that, as a Fantasy player, i do hold a slightly elitist view against 40K. Not against the people who play it however, but against the game. GW have made me dislike 40K by how much of a decline it has taken since i began playing.

Im sorry, but i must admit that, as a Fantasy player, i do hold a slightly elitist view against 40K. Not against the people who play it however, but against the game. GW have made me dislike 40K by how much of a decline it has taken since i began playing.

That's me summed up too. I've toyed with going into 40k for a while but it still sort of feels like a backward step somehow. I'm actaully a bit annoyed with myself for thinking that way at all. But, like Deciever, I have no problem with the people who play 40k, just the system itself.

Mould lines. The worst part of the hobby by a millon miles. Everything else is avoidable but having to spend hours of my precious painting time having to fix up casting problems is bloody annoying. It's getting worse, too. It used to be an occasional problem but now I'll pick up a whole frame of models with a nasty casting line right through every single one.

just some thing I find annoying:

1.) someone that says their army is bad and how their going to lose, and ends up winning. Basically someone feeling sorry themselve or has no confidence in their army for no reason.

2.) someone who is easily distracted, I've had people walk off in a game, or at a buddies house watch tv for minutes before making a move.

3.) as for painting, I don't really care that much as long as we play and have a good time.

4.) players that want to quit in the middle of a game just because their not doing well.

5.) anyone that acts really cocky and cheats or anything like that. Its just a game.

6.) One of my most hated!!! Someone that rolls a dice just about an inch and says he rolls it. I've had a friend that did this and the dice didn't even roll at all!!. But I'm nice so I let him get away with it.

As for Cheese I don't care much. The more cheesy the list the more happy I am with my army for beating it. And if I lose I just forget about it or think to myself how cheesy it was. So bring on the cheese, I'll eat it all day.

Crap written rules. Seriously. And the support aspect of it too. Could be done somewhat better. As in a hell of a lot.

Fantasy players ragging on 40k players. Yeah, your rules might be better written, your games more skill-based, but seriously.... if I don't play Fantasy because I don't like the background as much and like to spend my money elsewhere, how much can you get away with blaming me without being smacked with karma's "you're a ****" stick?

Powergamers/Rules lawyers/People who don't give half a damn about fluff/General scum. These all generally go hand in hand. I feel no need to elaborate on why I dislike them, as they aren't worth the time it would take.

Players who take the game too seriously and the ones who believe the damn fluff, it's bloody annoying having a guy next to you shouting 'for the emperor' everytime he moves the god damn marine squad. Other than that nothing much, i actually find other players cheating quite funny and just shows what sort of person they are (I cant talk since i thought mind war didnt allow invuls and i insisted until proved wrong by another player which means i've been in cheating in like 70% of my games) and especially when they're proved wrong.

Edit: I forfeited the game when he proved the mind war thing, as his plan was revolved around the commander which i killed.

I hate having a hardned layer of glue on my fingers, and then ripping off a layer of skin when I take it off, like I did last night.

5) Not shaking the dice when rolling. Those guys that seem to be positioning the dice in their hands on a certain number and rolling the dice in a certain direction and a certain strength to ensure they have decent rolls.


I've thought about that, because with the rolls I get during games these days, I might as well just sacrifice anything that gets wounded. Armour saves are useless for me.
But I think it would be too difficult to manage in real world terms.

Lol yeah I hate that too, and my superglue is so cheap that it will come out of any tiny hole in the packaging... resulting in lots and lots of mess on my part.

As for FB elitists vs 40k, I prefer 40k so much more, dragons and wizards and goblins don't do it for me personally.
I don't like LOTR, movie, game, what-have-you, because that stuff seems too ancient for my liking. I went for 40k because I liked the races and they were more interested in retrospect than a bunch of wizards and bowmen.

The painting I don't mind, not everyone has the time for it, as long as I can clearly see what that model is carrying then I don't care, they might, as one guy said, have a family and a job and kids and just have no time. Or like me, lazy and just can't get motivation to work on painting SO many models when there is less chore-like activities to indulge in.

That's my two cents :)

Another one of my pet peeves is people who complain constantly when a new codex or armybook comes out. I don't care that you think "X" is overpowered and I don't care that they "nerfed" your army, find a way to cope.

Players whos sulk or get stroppy when something dies.

i dont belive in power gameing (as in i rekon theres no such thing, just good selection and good usage of the options availible to you, the army list is fair, so moaning!) but i do think tweeking your list just befor a game is out of order, i never tell people what im useing untill its on the board.

and i hate people that lost then accuse you of power gameing because they are dumb, Well if your going to charge 10 conscripts against my 8 assault marines i wouldent be supprised you lost!!!

That's me summed up too. I've toyed with going into 40k for a while but it still sort of feels like a backward step somehow. I'm actaully a bit annoyed with myself for thinking that way at all. But, like Deciever, I have no problem with the people who play 40k, just the system itself.

Similar views here, I've tryed using mates imperial guard, and I do like the fluff, but I just find there isn't quite enough tactical room to breath for my liking. I will however never have a go at a 40k player for playing 40k the same as i don't expect some llittle squit to start having a go at me for playing fantasy, seriously I'd punch em but i'd be too worryed about exploding huge numbers of facial zits and covering myself in pus.

I have to start off by saying that I am rather surprised at the amount of players that find unpainted armies annoying. I am married and have a 4 month old son and to be quite honest I am lucky to get in an hour of painting in a single week.

I also have to say that I agree with Azriel, I don't really believe in power gaming. If the army list allows for it then it is good by me.

My pet peeves include:
1. Lack of personal grooming (long strands of greasy hair, rank breath, body odor)
2. sore losers making up excuses for why they lost ( my favorite one ever = "well, your dog was staring at me!")
3. Sore winners ( There is nothing worse than people that have to rub it in and try to make you feel bad about losing)
4. Other people touching my minis without asking, I have had too many "accidents" for my liking.

1. Necrons

8X Nah but seriously:

1. Mold lines esp on metal models
2. White dwarf's death
3. GW policy of 'streamlining' armies / lists. I loved running kroots / 13th co.
4. RAW vs RAI debates
5. people using dice that are hard to read (ive got bad eyesight)
6. the unkillable eldar falcon
7. the lack of support for speacialist games in Australia
8. you ;? (just kidding)

Lets see:

1. people who think my conversions are silly
2. people who say i've got too many conversions.
3. people who ramble on and on about dawn of war... I dont care!
4. tables being too small for apocalypse
5. people who get angry when you make a mistake.
6. people who try to out do you when talking about apocalypse armies. "I've got 20,000pts"... "oh yeah, well im aiming for 40k of 40k.":P

Hmm, pet peeves of the hobby.

1. GW's aparant blatant disregard for the hobby and the actual hobbyists (not gamers necessarily, but hobbyists - those who enjoy the fluff, painting and collecting side of things as well as/moreso than actual gaming)
2. Prices of models (it's actually cheaper to mail order stuff from the UK than to but it off the shelf in Oz - wtf?)
3. Annoying/stupid kids/noobs - I know it's harsh but those people out there that think just because they have a bunch of the 'hardest' units in the game then they should automatically win just annoy hell out of me - especially when they throw a tantrum after you mop the floor with them
4. Stupid parents - goes with the above peeve. Parents that think because their child is stupid and new and doesn't have the tactical aptitude of an agoraphobic wombat that they should win. "I've spent $400 getting him this army and you go and destroy it. Rant rant rant"
5. Lack of hobby support in Oz - too large a country, not enough dedicated stores (closest is 8 hours drive - and I'm only halfway up the state!)
6. Rules lawyers. I can't stand those people who will try and twist any advantage out of the game that they can and in doing so ruin the fun and enjoyment. There are people out there who take it too seriously - IT'S A GODSDAMN GAME PEOPLE!!!

i dont belive in power gameing (as in i rekon theres no such thing, just good selection and good usage of the options availible to you, the army list is fair, so moaning!) but i do think tweeking your list just befor a game is out of order, i never tell people what im useing untill its on the board.

and i hate people that lost then accuse you of power gameing because they are dumb, Well if your going to charge 10 conscripts against my 8 assault marines i wouldent be supprised you lost!!!

Well, when i mentioned power gaming I meant as in, tweaking a list just to beat your opponent, but also people who play REALLY aggressively when you're just hving a fun game - like when a dice just happens to stop rolling slightly touching a base of a minature and they say 'its cocked' if its bad for them, stuff like moving tyranids (e.g. cos they are fast enough and I've had this happen to me but due to the fact it was a tournament and the guy was playing at 200 mph and i dont know 'nids 100% i let it rest) nearly 7" by using some random point on the model, then rolling for fleet and doing the same again...

Haggling over line of sight, sure a bit of table crouching and possibly at a stretch a tape measure check - but taking 10minutes deciding is a drag.

Dodgy measuring in general - i think everyone is guilty of this from time to time but some people seem to be more guilty than others... if you catch my drift ("they can move and assault 18 inches you say?" (places models 19 away to be sure) - next turn, "ah, you appear to have got your entire unit into H-t-H, I wonder how that happened...")

but there we go - after living with my younger brother for several years you come to realise some people just dont think they smell that bad, hence BO i notice but it doesnt really bother me - unless it is gaggingly strong of course - because otherwise I would find it hard to go near a GW, let alone play a game there!!

oh, rant over i think - didnt mean that to turn into a wall of text... :?

1. GW's aparant blatant disregard for the hobby and the actual hobbyists (not gamers necessarily, but hobbyists - those who enjoy the fluff, painting and collecting side of things as well as/moreso than actual gaming)

How so? Just out of curiosity, not trying to be antagonistic or anything like that. If it's the Chaos codex, I can think of 101 reasons why the fluff is very much alive and well in it.

Hmm, pet peeves of the hobby.

1. GW's aparant blatant disregard for the hobby and the actual hobbyists (not gamers necessarily, but hobbyists - those who enjoy the fluff, painting and collecting side of things as well as/moreso than actual gaming)

Personally I feel that GW has one of the most interactive experiences with their customers than any other game company and I would even go so far as to say most any company period. I think they put a great deal of effort in trying to understand their customers wants/needs.

I speak from the viewpoint of a hobbyist that does predominantly paint. I may have played only a handful of actual games but have painted hundreds and hundreds of miniatures. In some ways GW has never been better in the quality of their models and the possiblilites for conversions. They offer very good support from their stores such as - paint guidance, a place to play games, army advice, etc. They have a huge support of novels for their game systems - one of the biggest on par or only slightly behind Dungeons and Dragons novels...

I too would be curious to hear your reasons to think that they have no regard for the hobby and the hobbyist.



2. Prices of models (it's actually cheaper to mail order stuff from the UK than to but it off the shelf in Oz - wtf?)

Unfortunately this is probably more of a regional issue for you rather than GW as a company. I am willing to guess that they have to import everything to you locally thus higher costs. Mail order may be a cheaper route for you to go.

Overall though - it seems that prices have adjusted to where quite a few things are cheaper. At least with the apocolypse releases for the temporary - there are great savings on things like groups of vehices, and what not. May not be a permanent thing but I think that quality vs. cost is on par.



5. Lack of hobby support in Oz - too large a country, not enough dedicated stores (closest is 8 hours drive - and I'm only halfway up the state!)


Again unfortunately this is most likely a regional thing. Perhaps if you and enough people voiced their desires for more stores in your area you may achieve a closer store. Barring that mail order or perhaps an independent stocker that is closer may be your only outlet. Definitely make GW corporate aware of your wants. If you don't talk to the source nothing changes...

Cheers,

-Mike

Unfortunately this is probably more of a regional issue for you rather than GW as a company. I am willing to guess that they have to import everything to you locally thus higher costs. Mail order may be a cheaper route for you to go.


That's a function of many businesses. Item per item, it is often many times more expensive, when you factor in tariffs, fees, shipping costs, maintaining distribution networks, etc. to ship something to a store, especially Oz, which is literally half a world away.

With mail order, however, the law often looks at it as the company mailing you something you already own (which, technically, is what mail order is), so many of the expensive import/export laws are exempt. Car companies benefit so much from this kind of loophole that some will actually FLY YOU to their country, then fly you home, and ship your car home to you, all at their expense, after you've bought it over there, and they STILL save money overall on the transaction.

Personally I feel that GW has one of the most interactive experiences with their customers than any other game company and I would even go so far as to say most any company period. I think they put a great deal of effort in trying to understand their customers wants/needs.

I speak from the viewpoint of a hobbyist that does predominantly paint. I may have played only a handful of actual games but have painted hundreds and hundreds of miniatures. In some ways GW has never been better in the quality of their models and the possiblilites for conversions. They offer very good support from their stores such as - paint guidance, a place to play games, army advice, etc. They have a huge support of novels for their game systems - one of the biggest on par or only slightly behind Dungeons and Dragons novels...

I too would be curious to hear your reasons to think that they have no regard for the hobby and the hobbyist.

My gripes with it come largely from the decline in quality of White Dwarf. When compared to issues even 5 years ago the level of helpful content, guides, quality articles and overall fluff has greatlydeclined - I don't know anyone who would argue otherwise. Even though the magazine itself has grown in size, they pages have been filled with advertising, shop listings, product listings etc - it has turned more into a catalogue than an actual hobby magazine.
The overall direction of GW seems to have revolved around selling more models and making more money in recent years, which is a shame. The level of writing, stories and interaction between hobbyists is something I feel has dropped substantially. (Don't get me started on the storm of chaos fiasco) and the general consensus that I have come across is that you take everything GW says with a grain of salt.
I admit that the level of fluff that has been put into the latest codicies is much better than 3rd ed original releases (almost back to the level of 2nd ed 40k).



Unfortunately this is probably more of a regional issue for you rather than GW as a company. I am willing to guess that they have to import everything to you locally thus higher costs. Mail order may be a cheaper route for you to go.

Overall though - it seems that prices have adjusted to where quite a few things are cheaper. At least with the apocolypse releases for the temporary - there are great savings on things like groups of vehices, and what not. May not be a permanent thing but I think that quality vs. cost is on par.

It probably is a regional thing, but from my understanding of economics it is one that should be altering. The current strength of the dollar would lend itself, one imagines, to lower import costs - however everytime GW 're-evaluates' it's prices things go up across the board.
Mail order definately is the cheaper way to go, no doubt about it.




Again unfortunately this is most likely a regional thing. Perhaps if you and enough people voiced their desires for more stores in your area you may achieve a closer store. Barring that mail order or perhaps an independent stocker that is closer may be your only outlet. Definitely make GW corporate aware of your wants. If you don't talk to the source nothing changes...

Cheers,

-Mike

I realise that - with a country as large as australia and as demographically spread as it is we will never get aanywhere near the concentration of stores available to UK/Europe/US. However, the lack of dedicated support comes mainly from the lack of bits ordering, component parts, access to specials etc.
I don't mind travelling the distance - it's quite a nice state ;) - but when you get there and they don't have the models available, any bits boxes, are playing quite loud music and are filled with annoying kids who should be in school (another gripe) and the staff are only interested in flogging off the latest release to you ("No, really, I've been playing for 10 years - I know I don't want that. I don't even have the army. No, I don't want the army book, just tell me about the range/options for what I'm interested in..)

Me sir?

1) Armies painted by people who don't try at all. If you are bad at painting but give it a go and actually try then at least your army has charm. If you can't be bothered to paint then at least it is not an insult to me as a painter.

2) The lowering standard of models over the years. They just keep getting worse and worse, GW is making garbage plastics and the competition has overtaken them in terms of quality.

3) White metal, I'ld rather have cheaper higher quality figures that I can't suck on- thank you.

4) "New digitally sculping techniques" it's no better and I just don't care- please don't ram it down my throat!

5) The removal of the back catelogue.

6) That my rants fall on deaf ears.

6) That my rants fall on deaf ears.

I heard.

But did you care?

7) That LOTR miniatures are stupid 25mm scale.
8) That there always seems to be one person better than me in the room.
9) The theory that new means good.
10) I always kill detail brushes really quickly.

I seem to fudge my brushes up rather fast too.
And although I do care, fact of the matter is, most of what you said doesn't apply to me, cos I havn't been around enough for those changes.

Me sir?

2) The lowering standard of models over the years. They just keep getting worse and worse, GW is making garbage plastics and the competition has overtaken them in terms of quality.

3) White metal, I'ld rather have cheaper higher quality figures that I can't suck on- thank you.

4) "New digitally sculping techniques" it's no better and I just don't care- please don't ram it down my throat!




If you look purely at progress over older models and new ones without getting into the issue of personal preference... how can you say that they are lowering the standard of models? The plastic kits being release today are of vastly superior detail and options than most of their classic era figures. There plastics today are much improved over older plastics even as recent as a few years ago. By improvements I am referring to detail in the plastics, included extras - the thought into allowing for more customization.

I don't believe they use white metal anymore. I believe it was a fad when they first had to turn away from lead figures... Now it is a much stronger mixture of metals. I agree though that white metal is crap.

If the new digital sculpting techniques will equate to cheaper and more detailed plastic kits that are more complex than the past... I am all for it.

Is every figure they do great? No. But enough of it is fantastic enough to keep me interested.

Cheers,

-Mike

If you look purely at progress over older models and new ones without getting into the issue of personal preference... how can you say that they are lowering the standard of models? The plastic kits being release today are of vastly superior detail and options than most of their classic era figures. There plastics today are much improved over older plastics even as recent as a few years ago. By improvements I am referring to detail in the plastics, included extras - the thought into allowing for more customization.

I don't believe they use white metal anymore. I believe it was a fad when they first had to turn away from lead figures... Now it is a much stronger mixture of metals. I agree though that white metal is crap.

If the new digital sculpting techniques will equate to cheaper and more detailed plastic kits that are more complex than the past... I am all for it.

Is every figure they do great? No. But enough of it is fantastic enough to keep me interested.

Cheers,

-Mike

I have to agree here. White metal was a temporary thing in the business, and the overall quality of the figures is way up generally.

Tekore

8) That there always seems to be one person better than me in the room.


This is a problem? How else do you expect to learn anything?

Agree with slorak, a brief look at my models from the RT era makes me shudder!

pet peeves:

1. strangers touching my models without asking permision
2. Players who cheat deliberatly
3. Arguing about rules
4. The absence of Cameron Diaz

4. The absence of Cameron Diaz

My sentiments exactly.

Zooey deschanel completely trumps Cameron Diaz any day of the week.

Zooey deschanel completely trumps Cameron Diaz any day of the week.

Absolute nonesense! for that matter no-one trumps Bridget Bardot in her youth!

Absolute nonesense! for that matter no-one trumps Bridget Bardot in her youth!

Psshhhh, Mary Louise Parker.


I WIN

Hmm. By the will of the Gods (mods), I shall set about making a Cameron Diaz model. Let us hope my use of counter-weights will, well, counteract its inevitable, though ineminently desirable, top-heaviness. ;Y

Hmm. By the will of the Gods (mods), I shall set about making a Cameron Diaz model. Let us hope my use of counter-weights will, well, counteract its inevitable, though ineminently desirable, top-heaviness. ;Y

I better see some pictures in the project forum!!!

- People who care more about winning than playing a good game. Many people have voiced this sentiment and I agree - you lose and they gloat, they lose and they pout (or worse) No one's really winning here...

- The decline of content in White Dwarf and Black Gobbo - I still read them, but who really cares about parts layouts from the latest kits? Hardcore mod/conversion guys I suppose, but it just feels like another beat w/the advertising stick to me.

- The rate at which I paint things =P. My brush-strokes sometimes feel like glacial movements.

I haven't really played many games yet - but my biggest peeves so far have been: people who just take whole armies sprayed chaos black and expect to play with them, and people who take about 300pts more than I have, then say that they just 'forgot' the points total. So irritating!

- People who care more about winning than playing a good game. Many people have voiced this sentiment and I agree - you lose and they gloat, they lose and they pout (or worse) No one's really winning here...



I also hate it when people want to win more than have fun.