It's just that I've heard some chatter about people not having Dex's so maybe I'm not alone.

For me I didn't buy the new Eldar Codex. I gave it a read through, looked at the price. And then realized that, given the plastic I had (no special characters), the actual wargaming content I could use beyond what is on the reference sheet would fit on an index card.

We functionally have no wargear, just farseer/warlock options put in a different section. We have barely a handful of vehicle upgrades and we know them by heart. Really all we need is a small number of special rules and the points costs for some stuff.

And the fluff isn't worth re-reading enough to merit buying it on that count.



Anyway I'm curious how other people feel. And if it would kill GWs business model if they just let us have the army lists ravening hoard style so we could by more minis. I know I would never have gotten into the game if I'd had to just buy an army codex out of the blue before really knowing what I was getting. They may be losing business to people who don't have access to store copies.

No one says it is a bad thing not to own the Codex of the army you play... It is weird but it is not bad...

I have ir as I wanted to see all the possibilities a SM army can give! :)

I see where you are coming from and I dislike GW overpricing also, but I usually get my rulebooks 2nd hand, because 1) It's Cheaper and 2) It comes with an 2nd-Hand unpainted army half the time.

I've got one word for you: Ebay - Don't underestimate it's usefulness.

I'd like to play the game with the rules at hand, memorising them will (Believe it or not) make you an unreliable person at playing just by remembering the rules. Having the book on hand can allow you to refer back to them without misprounouncing them from your memory, and quite possibly causing an arguement without proof to backup your memorised rules.

you may have a great memory but, it's best to get the rules just to save you a whole lot of agro.

Sorry if I'd Burst your Bubble or anything:happy:

-Kai-Itza-

You should have it, i absalutly HATE players who dont own the damn thing and just "assume" that things chost a certain amount or has a certain stat line, get the damn book!!!

I agree with Azriel (although perhaps less vehemently - that's one furious baby!). Maybe some codices or armybooks are simple enough that you can get away without it while collecting the bulk of your army, but when it comes to special rules and specific points costs you need the book to know what you're talking about. Playing without it is like playing without a rulebook.

You should never take what someone says about the rules on faith. I couldn't count the number of times that someone has assumed a particular rule/spell/whatever worked one way, but when you actually check it's different, in Warhammer and many other games (including myself!).

I'd like to play the game with the rules at hand, memorising them will (Believe it or not) make you an unreliable person at playing just by remembering the rules. Having the book on hand can allow you to refer back to them without misprounouncing them from your memory, and quite possibly causing an arguement without proof to backup your memorised rules.

you may have a great memory but, it's best to get the rules just to save you a whole lot of agro.

Sorry if I'd Burst your Bubble or anything:happy:

-Kai-Itza-

To be clear I wouldn't want to try it without the BBB around. That's got a lotta stuff.

But you can just print the online reference sheet. That gives you the statlines/armor values/weapons. For Eldar a lot of units don't really need much else for rules to cover them. For example with my exarcless dire avengers and fire dragons I just need to write down their points value. They have no other options, that's what they are, there it all is on the reference sheet if you want to look. Units with exarcs aren't much more complicated since usually the options aren't so optional and they use USRs.

I imagine it's different for other armies. SM have a rich codex full of wargear and traits and stuff. Lots of things you'd want to peruse at home, because maybe tomorrow you'll field an army with roughly the same models but that plays very differently under different rules. And chaos players blow it all to often even if they do have their codex on hand(at least with the old dexs).

How are the other dexs for that?

Well if you are not going to take any upgrades then I suppose it is not really nesiscary.
As soon as you upgrade anything or purchase any wargear you need the book as that is the only source of the price and properly worded rules.

A preacher might know the story but he'll always own a bible.

I pretty much have all the rules and point-costs for the Space Marines memorized. I committed virtually the entire BBB to memory, and I rarely consult either when playing. I do keep both around, though, in case someone disagrees with me. It's important to have the books to resolve the conflicts that do arise, even if you pretty much know everything that's in them.

I've got good portions of a handful of other codices down, too, but I like my opponents to have them, just in case I find myself doubting the rules they're quoting.

Hmmm I'm starting to think that maybe the Eldar codex is unique a bit in that we don't have a wargear section as other armies know it or variable special rules.

Well maybe necrons. Though people often have issues with the details of the WBB rules.

The main reson I buy codex's is because of the artwork in them. Ok, so it's all black and white, but I can live with that, lol. Also i find that reading the background can help with conversion inspirations. But mainly it's the artwork...the Uriel Ventris piece in marine codex is awesome!

I think it's extraordinary bad form to not own the Codex of your own army - that is, at least if you are planning to play someone in a gaming club or whatnot.

also a fair point, plus the codexes make up for the lack of short stories there are in WD, i love the fluff in codexes, i own, Tau emapire,Dark Angels,Necrons,Tyranids,Eldar,Chaos Space Marines, Space Marined, Imperial Guard, Old Imperial Guard, Old Space Marine, Old Chaos Space Marine and i only collect a Codex Marine army!!

So because you like the fluff, everyone should have to pay for it as well? Gee, that's fair...

Everyone should own their codex if for no other reason than to settle rule disputes. They will happen eventually and you will need your official rules to back up what you are doing. If someone is doing something that you think is fishy ask to see their codex. Problem solved. If they don't have their codex or can't find the page finish the game and ask them to have the rules on hand and memorized the next time you play. Playing against someone who owns their codex and knows their rules is a lot more fun and runs much more smoothly, it is a better experience for everyone involved.

People should have their own codices and know the contents. If you don't know your army properly, you can cheat yourself out of a victory quite easily.

I've caught people out who've unluckily got the rules for their own armies wrong. It happens - but players have to be careful they don't persistently get things wrong or miss important rules (pg 21 Codex: Eldar and Pg 55 Hordes of Chaos being two classic ones).

I would always buy the Army Book/Codex for an army I wanted to play. Rork and frozencore have some very good points as to why you should have it.

I agree with Rork's sig:
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.

I think that applies to both the core rules and your Army Book/Codex.

So because you like the fluff, everyone should have to pay for it as well? Gee, that's fair...


Did i say that? no, i didnt did i.

i said its an added bonus, thats all.

But YES you should have to pay for the codex, as said by Dane of War, its just Extroidinary bad form, i think its quite a noobish thing not to own the codex for your army.

Yeah I bought the codex to play my army. And also because if you don't have the right rules you never know when someone is going to make up something to benefit their army. And if he doesn't have his codex and you don't have yours then you never really know whats going on.

Of course if your like many a person (such as me) you by codex's for fun and for reading about different armies. So many of the rules for each of the armies stick in your mind.8Y

Of course if your like many a person (such as me) you by codex's for fun and for reading about different armies. So many of the rules for each of the armies stick in your mind.8Y

And I'm the sort of person who buys them all for that reason and so that I'm familiar with anything my opponent (and the peeps of the intarweb) might get wrong.

Of course I have my Codicies/Army Books

How else can you know what stats your things have for a start? Or their options, or their fluff, or their points cost, or how to use them, or the special rules.


Frankly, having the appropriate army literature is the only way I can think of for having any sort of tabletop effectiveness with your army (and I dont have all that much effectiveness even with them :P).

Of course its different for painters and modellers who dont play the games I suppose, but even then you can get good ideas from the pages of your codex/army book.

For all that I've said it has suddenly occured to me that I don't have my army books. I lent them to a friend and that was the last I've seen of them! Of course I wouldn't take an army to the field without proper literature, I'm just watching my forces grow (i.e. get painted) until I get the books back.

I buy my main army codex straight on. And when I find a bargain in Ebay, I buy other armies too. Especialy on 40K I have all the Armies Books for 4th, 3rd and some of the 2nd.

It's good to know the rules. Not all of them, but there are times when they are needed. Some armies themes can be used on others (IG army themes on Tau) and they are good inspiration.

I find that I'm always finding new stuff in my Codex no matter how much I read and memorise. Generally it's the small stuff, technicalities.

If that were any of my opponents not using a Codex/Army Book, I wouldn't play them until they got it. If they planned any sneaky moves on me (which we do to each other quite a lot) I wouldn't believe them. One of my opponents skim-reads almost all the rules and as a consequence, gets them wrong 70% of the time, so whenever he does something new/uses new wargear/whatever, I always double-check the rules now to make sure that he isn't doing anything wrong.

Another thing, what if your opponent decided to collect a Marines army? You will be left high and dry if you don't use Banshees/Reapers/something similar. Gaming styles change often, and it's essential to have the rules on hand if you want to do so, even to keep up with your opponents.

So what if the Book in question is too expensive? Download it and put the pages in a clearfile. That's good enough for me.

-AFG

<i>Yes, I felt I needed it as a resource to play my army effectively</i>
If by this you mean "convince the other player I'm right" then yes I'd go with that answer.

I have my own army books/codices in physical form and all the other codices and army books in digital form. The core rulebooks I have, of course, in physical form.

Now, I don't see why a person shouldn't have his or her army's source book memorized. It's not too complex, after all. That said, you can never count on your opponent having your source book memorized as well and all it takes is one "are you sure?" and no amount of swearing that your memory is eidetic will convince them.

If both players have most if not all of the rules committed to memory, the game runs much faster, though.

year like the third game i ever played was against a very noob bretonion player at about turn 3 i found out he did not own the army book and had left his army list at home at this point i didn’t wont to look like a jerk so i said nothing i then found out he seamed to have at lest 4 dispel scrolls a lvl 3 wizard and about 4 other characters (40k players might not get the joke) and to make matters worse it was a 1500pt game

Personally, I buy the codex for my armies that I have models for, however I also firmly believe in taking anything you can get your hands on even if its just for the read and you dont really want that army anyway.

I chose the second option down because I typically memorise much of the core rules and/or play against or with people who also know the rules.

A preacher might know the story but he'll always own a bible.
That's a great analogy! :happy:

The main reson I buy codex's is because of the artwork in them. Ok, so it's all black and white, but I can live with that. Also i find that reading the background can help with conversion inspirations. But mainly it's the artwork...the Uriel Ventris piece in marine codex is awesome!
I think this is partly the reason I go for the codecies/army books as well. I mean, I only own two (Tau and Vampire Counts) but I like to sit down and read about the army, its background and the way it works, before I go out and start collecting.

Plus, I find the colour section (painted miniatures) really helpful - it gives me a base to work from to develop my own scheme, or one to fall back on if I can't come up with anything!

Nothing pisses me off more than some one who dosn't have a dex and think its no big deal. I use it as a constant reasorce untill I get all the nuances of my army, even then I keep it handy if I have to prove a rule or come across a unique circumstance. IMHO the people who "never needed to buy thier current Dex Have the least understanding of the rules.

Everyone should own their codex if for no other reason than to settle rule disputes. They will happen eventually and you will need your official rules to back up what you are doing. If someone is doing something that you think is fishy ask to see their codex.

It is for this reason that I don't play people who don't have their army books or can't source one from the club/store. I've always had my army book, its the first thing I buy to get into the fluff and plan my army out, without it, I've seen players flex rules too much in the past, surprise, surprise, when I've asked to confirm... no rulebook.

I have most of the current and old editions of all the 40k codex’s for one simple
reason, Know your foe! Of course I need mine and a clear army list because
‘nids have a horrifying amount of bio morphs and its very easy to lose track of who has what.
In my last game I only remembered that my carnifex has acid maw, something which can really swing combat for him but I had forgotten he had it till turn 3!

I agree with the general concensus here... Every body should have thier Codex on hand during a game. EVERY BODY.
Nothing spoils a game like a rules dispute that turns into a "Are you calling me a liar" dispute.
Most of the time, the rule in dispute would have just been misread, misunderstood or misinterpreted by either player and because they have memorised this 'rule' and have played it the same way for a long time, they are completely unaware of the actual interpretation. The most civil thing in this case to do is... yep, get out your codex.

I am also in the process of collecting the codeces for all the armies... know thy enemy.

I think owning the codex for your army is essential. It is very conceited for someone to claim (and actually believe) that they have everything that is "important" memorized. I play space marines. They are a very simple army, I have read the codex probably three times completely, but sections I have read about a hundred times. I still reference it during games, as well as a rule book.
Next thing you know some guy will show up without a list...just models! "I know what they all have and what it all costs." REALLY???? Prove it.
How about I play without dice?? I know what they would've rolled!! You take 12 wounds!

Okay, that last example was a bit ridiculous...sorry...

Your codex is a must.

I sneaky bastard'd them from my friend's house, and now I have codicil monopoly in my gaming circle! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH now I feel sad, I'm a bad friend.

As I said a guy did turn up with out a army list and it was only because I was young and naive at the time that I did not pick him up on it until it was to late.

If an opponent does not have a codex for his army just use this simple rule.
Roll a D6 on a score of 7 he can use his rules, any other score and you win the game.

Most of the time, the rule in dispute would have just been misread, misunderstood or misinterpreted by either player and because they have memorised this 'rule' and have played it the same way for a long time, they are completely unaware of the actual interpretation.

Done that before, me and a mate played against each other for some years (there being a complete lack of other players that didnt involve forking out a whole 2 quid for a train ticket to the nearest GW - its actually IN the sodding train station at the other end of the ten minute journey too. That should give you an idea as to the amount of lazyness involved)

long story short, it wasnt until 7th ed fantasy came out that we realised we had been playing with the wrong to hit tables (the 3rd ed 40k ones) for those four or so years, having assumed that basics sush as characteristics and the tables would be ralatively consistent across both systems (they were not :P).


The really distressing thing is those tables had a MASSIVE bias towards my army (i.e the one with the higher WS) and I still lost almost all of the time

For me you need to have your own codex to hand during a game- noone has such a good memory that they know every different rule by heart unless they are some sort of idiot savant. Anyway, if its an army I dont know myself then i think its courtesy for my opponent to be able to show me the exact wording for special rules etc. if needs be, 99 percent of the time I wont query them but I should be able to- its just good manners and stops arguements.

Just another point.

You should have your codex for your opponents benefit. They are usually the ones that dont know the particular rules of your army and it is always in your best interest to answer their queries with proof.

With out proof, you are no better than OJs prosecutors. You know it... you just cant proove it.

Dam rights you should own a Codex/ArmyBook for your army. I still have some of my RT stuff kicking around. Never know when you might want to become a FluffMaster and know everything there is to know about everything.... 0:

Plus most of them are just a good read, I collect most of the 40k Codecii's. And the Hords of Chaos book has been calling my name lately....... ;Y

I also like rolling the 7 on a D6 if you dont have your book....

i can remember all the stats, points and rules of my armies but you gotta have the codex

I see your point regarding simple armies with little wargear and changes in stats. I've gotten to the point with my Dark Angels where I don't even need my army list in hand, let alone my codex. Everything is so basic, marine stats, very little wargear etc.
But even then, I find it annoying that someone doesn't own the rulebook for the army they play. Regardless if they need to or not, they should have it on hand to reference something someone is challenging them on. I always have a fully printed copy of my army list, so I can reference items if need be, and so I can show I'm not changing things up during a game willy nilly. I also keep it handy should someone not believe me about a special rule or something.
An example would be the combat squads rule in the DA codex. I was questioned on that the first couple of times I played, along with Deathwing Assault. They didn't believe me and said I was cheating. So I pulled out the book and let them read it for themselves.

The first time I played someone using Tau, I didn't believe them that the suites could move, shoot and then move again with out assaulting, and I didn't believe them that the little turrets on the tanks could shoot different targets. I said that is against BBB rules. They showed it to me in their codex so I was satisfied.

the hoards of chaos amry book is a good read

I feel i need them for a backup to the rules i remember most of them but useally forget little bits and also since i own nearly every armybook and codex i enjoy reading up on my enemies is good way to play against them even tho i dont play against many races.

The other problem with remembering your rules is you tend to forget the rules you don’t wont to remember its not necessarily your fault but it still isn’t fair to your opponent

I originally baught the nid and old chaos codex for inspiration first, gaming second, since I didn't start an army till this new chaos codex came out, I had no use for it up till then.