When you play your games how many points (if any) to you allow players to miss the mark by?? i find 10 is acceptable, just for those odd workings out that you get and so on.

If you agree on 1500, then 1500 it is. If you want to go ten over then you're playing 1510, in which case I'd be more than happy to take some extra equipment.

i'd give it up to 5 under but less than 5 over. If they were over 1500 points by 5 points that's like another power weapon i could take for my Officer and that could give me a good advantage.

I drives me nuts how some armies really don't work out to an exact number. Really, those numbers are set by players to make it easy to remember and use, but the army itself doesn't' always build that way. (GW has made efforts to improve this, though still not perfect.)

As such, I tend to allow and 1~2 point slide just because I have that issues myself. It usually means making some minor changes much easier to deal with. For points higher than that, you start getting into adding weapons that can change a squad's fundamental role in the game, make a character capable of doing more than it could before, etc.

10 is fine. I always tell them, "whatever you need to think you'll win." ;D

Never go over, I'll agree for a few extra points a side if asked though, I get them too though.

would anyone play someone if they had with alot less,
say if you turned up with 1500pts and i came in with say 1200pts.
Would that be cool aslong as i knew i would be facing a uphill stuggle?

I don't mind if someone shows up with less points than the limit, and I don't like it when people show up with more, even by a little bit. I'll often let them play, but I think it's rude.

If we agreed on a limit of 1500 points, and you had time to write your list before-hand, why did you come with more points than we agreed? Just hoping I wouldn't notice? I could have used an extra bolt pistol or melta-bomb, or a completely different list that came out a point or two over, too, ya know, but I stuck to the limit. I appreciate it when I'm shown the same courtesy.

The issue of having less points is more interesting. Hitting exactly 1500, or whatever, is often very difficult. I don't want people to go over the limit, so allowing them to go under the limit seems necessary. Besides, it's clearly supposed to be an upper limit, not an exact value.

That being said, if you're playing a game based on nothing but Victory points, having an unusually small army can be an advantage.

When I played Warmachine, I'd occasionally play games with only one model--my Warcaster. If he stayed alive for the entire game and killed even one VP worth of enemies, I'd win--and since there was nothing else for my enemy to kill (and thus no VP to be gained except by killing my Warcaster) and my Warcaster was both very hard to kill and very good at sniping specific enemy models and getting away with it, I actually did pretty well with this tactic. Eventually, the 'very small list' approach was outlawed in the Warmachine tournament environment.

While 40k isn't set up in such a way that this is likely to be a problem, lists that are way under the limit are somewhat suspect. Even so, going under the limit is better than going over the limit.

just out of curiosity how many people here who have said never ever have acctualy never gone atleast one point over?

and they ofotn do it in WD battle reports too.

Not even in my games of Apocalypse. In our first game, it was supposed to be 5000 points per side, and my teammate and I wrote our lists in conjunction--hitting 5000 total points exactly.

I maintain that it is simply rude to go over an agreed-upon limit in army size, even by a very small amount.

i think 10 heck even up tp 20 is fine. i've never seen a game one by one extra piece of wargear or an extra model or two.

I normally don't mind if they are over a few points or not... but if so I will go over too by the same amount of points. Course that normally only means ONE more warrior for my Necrons if that.

I have to agree with ian, I have not seen a game won or lost because of a single piece of war gear with the exception of the Rez Orb :D

An Adamantium Mantle on a Chaplain saved him from a Railgun shot the turn before he charged into the Tau gunline and single-handedly won the game for the Space Marines.

One piece of wargear can certainly make a significant, outcome altering impact on a game.

In tournament armies 0. In a normal friendly about 5.

A normal 1000pt freindly game (small table, 1500 gets cramped) then up to 5 points either side is fine. And usually if one player is five under and the other is five over then the five under bloke can just grab another trooper or a gun or some wargear to make it vaguely even.

An Adamantium Mantle on a Chaplain saved him from a Railgun shot the turn before he charged into the Tau gunline and single-handedly won the game for the Space Marines.

One piece of wargear can certainly make a significant, outcome altering impact on a game.


well that might have happened but i don't see it being the norm. sorry, i have played most of my games 10-20 points above or below my opponents and it has never been the deciding factor.
just my personal experience though.

1 or 2 over is fine, provided it's necessary - but I might choose to add frags to something if you do so. Anything under is fine.

The point isn't that it's unfair, Ian Smith. You're right--one or two points is almost never going to be unfair.

My point isn't that it's unfair, but that it's rude. If we agree on a point limit, it's a limit, not a suggestion. I limit my choices to come under the limit, but you decide that you're going to ignore our agreement and use more points. I don't really care that your army is however slightly better because of those few extra points. It just upsets me that you broke our agreement.

That's my point.

The post you quoted was purely in response to Vlorlich's post, and it was just to demonstrate that a few extra points can make a big difference, even if that isn't the main issue.

The point isn't that it's unfair, Ian Smith. You're right--one or two points is almost never going to be unfair.
My point isn't that it's unfair, but that it's rude. If we agree on a point limit, it's a limit, not a suggestion. I limit my choices to come under the limit, but you decide that you're going to ignore our agreement and use more points. I don't really care that your army is however slightly better because of those few extra points. It just upsets me that you broke our agreement.
That's my point.

i didn't say it was rude or unfair, Left of West. i don't think its rude. some armies can't make an even 1500, so people go over or under it. i could care less either way. that is what i was saying by replying to this thread. if people go over i don't care. if people go under i don't care. i just want to play some warhammer 40K. if you have to tweak your list a bit to fit the game then so be it. that is why I said it has never been a factor in games I have played.
hey if it bugs you then sorry. then don't play people who are over or under the point limit. play every game at exactly 1500,1000 or whatever points cost with no exception. if that is your way and how your groups play than so be it.
i don't play in tourneys and my friends are laid back and just want to play. we don't care if there are a few points off the totals here or there.
i was just stating my opinion, guess you don't like it.

Its very rare that I let people go over... I never do it, so to be quite fair I don't see where my opponent should get a bonus... no matter how small. I'm sticking to the rules, so I don't see why my opponent should be allowed to bend them... fair play and all.

That said, I'm not a **** over it. I won't stamp my foot and cry about it.

Some people get real iffy when it comes to points in a game. I guess I am not one of them. I am rarely able to meet the exact 1500 point quota when playing my Necrons. Most of the time I am under by about 10 to 15 points.

I play Necrons and short of my Rez Orb, I have not had or faced a situation where a single piece of war gear decided a battle.

But I guess there could always be that situation where that measly lasgun you decided to pick up for your Acolyte is what in turn 6 killed the Demon Prince bearing down on your Inq Retinue... sure. If that is what decided your battle then you either had a very close game or someone got cooked by tactics or the dice gods. :)

Well personally I think if you have a point limit, thats the limit. While I can see where you can miscalculate a little. I know I've done it but not since I got army builder. In a friendly game I dont mind if someone goes over by a little, if it wasnt intentional. Of course tournament play is no exception at all.

A single piece of wargear in my opinion, can make the difference between a win or a loss. Usually though, most wargear is very situational in my opinion. Like Vlorlich was saying. although a necron army not using a res orb is a stupid necron player imo. Some pieces of wargear are considered standard while others can be very situational.

All in all, if you both agreed to a certain point limit, you should stick to it.

How do I give negative rep power to Haddatt? ;)

For me, I would prefer nothing to slide. ^^; But then, that would probably be because I usually couldn't go over a point limit with my Dark Elves. Most army lists I've drawn up I'm under by about 50 points.

Personally I think you should stick to the points limit. It's not that I think 10 points or whatever is really going to effect the outcome of the game, it's more a matter of principle. If the agreed points limit was 1500 then that's the maximum your opponet should have spent, after all, I always have the cortesy to keep my army within the points limit, what makes it so hard for them to do the same.

Of course there are exceptions, like when I have been challenged to a game I wasn't expecting I don't always write my list within the points limit, or vice versa, I wouldn't expect my opponent to write a perfect list when I've put them on the spot. However, for games where you arranged the terms in advance I don't think there is an excuse.

If I am challenged to a 1500 point game I expect to play against a 1500 point army.

On a side note, the last 5 IG armies I have written have come up as exactly the points limit (mainly due to bolt pistols on my officers and changin squad sizes in my 11/12 point lance/meltabomb rough riders).

This subject jumps out far too often.

Keep this in mind. It's much easier to add or lose 1-2 points in 40K than it is in Fantasy. Not every squad leader in Fantasy has access to wargear, an no wargear in Fantasy costs less than five points. So a Fantasy player who is 2 points over either has to take the light armor off his hero or lord or he has to ditch an entire 8-12 points for a single RiF (unless he's a goblin or a rat). In most cases, it's just easier to let the guy be a few points over. And also, something can be said for asthetic value. If all your goblin units come in 25, making you take one in 24 just to meet a points value seems silly to me.

None, Zero, nada. Its not hard to make a 2000 point list even in fantasy, if you agree on a points limit thats your limit. I have taken 1998 points etc before so as not to go over, I don't worry about being under, but being over, particularly by 10 points? No. To me thats 2 runes of stone spread across my characters, which can make a big difference. I've found more than once my opponent is over by 5-10 points which being the effective gost of a cheap magic item can change things. Its not hard even with the lack of gear choices in fantasy to make a list that comes to the agreed number.

5 points give or take for me... no more though as it would not be fair... 8Y

40K:
I will never write or use a list that is over the limit by more than 0.0001 of the points limit.

In saying this, I will allow my opponent up to 5 points over ONLY if they do not have any war gear or weapons that can be removed to get them closer to the limit.

10 points is rediculous. It is easy to drop 10 points by removing a weapon. You cant accidentally be over by 10 points due to the summation of 1 or 2 points here and there! Drop a plasma gun. Problem solved.

WHFB:
????

Serious game? Nothing over. Every 5 points is a spinegaunt ... 1 point lets my carnifex climb sheer vertical walls and cliffs.

Laid back or apocalypse? Jeesh I don't care, go 100 over if you really feel the need.

i'd have to agree with some of them here.

The number for the game is not an exact number to hit.

It is the ceiling. A max allotment.

If we agree to 1500, and I build my roster, and i'm at 1500, and taking something away would have me at 1490-1495..i'll take it out.

The "1500 point game" is a "Let us play warhammer, MAXIMUM points per army are 1500"

Unless i'm just having a relaxing game, and someone asks,
"Lets play 40k, about 1500. that cool?"

It's called a limit for a reason! If you can't match it exactly go under, not over. It's just plain being polite.

I used to write all my lists (and I mean ALL of them) just a little over, trying to squeeze that little bit extra out of the army. But then I started to notice that not a lot of other people did that. So I now try and make all my lists come in under the points value.

However, I don't think I would mind an opponent coming in 2, or 3, or even 5 points over. As has been pointed out, 10 or more shouldn't happen, really; you should be able to drop something to get back to your points limit.

It might also depend on the situation. Perhaps the opponent has just got themselves a new unit, and they've swapped that unit out of their normal list to see what it can do. If this puts them more than five points over, I think I could deal with it; it'll probably only happen once, and once they've had their test game they'll probably tweak their list to get pack under the limit.

I think I'd be pretty easy, to be honest. I'll try and stay under, but as long as it's not excessive, I wouldn't mind if my opponent went a few points over. So I'll put my vote down for five points and leave it at that.

I believe in sticking to the points limit for competitive or arranged games.
For lists made on the spot or just friendly games in general I usually (so far always) let some points slide.
The lists I usually make end up somewhere around the exact limit to 20-30 points under. When I do go over, I make a personal limit for myself of 5 points, so I voted for that.

Extra points, even 5 can make a noticeable difference in 40k though. Its not always game determining, but heres some examples where it can mean a lot; For 5 points or under I can get various grenades. One type is the melta bomb. With these, a normally relatively harmless model such as an inquisitor Acolyte is capable of tearing apart 250+ points worth of land raider.

i'd give it up to 5 under but less than 5 over. If they were over 1500 points by 5 points that's like another power weapon i could take for my Officer and that could give me a good advantage.

Exactly my thoughts. A lot of Wargear costs 5pts. If my opponent is at 1505, he can drop a Melta-Bomb or something. Even if its less than 5pts over, I try to get my opponent to drop some cheap upgrades here or there. Maybe thats because I feel like I'm cheating if I go over; I'll even shave 5pts off my list to be at 1497 rather than 1502. 1501 I can live with though...

It's kind of stupid, and the logic isn't all right. But I don't mind 5 points over so long as you aren't buying something after you've met your mark. (ie. you need another 3 points to fit in a third Obliterator in your squad - this is fine. But not...hmm...I'm already at the limit, but I can go over....I know! Meltabombs! - not cool.

So in that case all I need to do is add the kit first and lose a squad member and then when | turn up to play just tell you that I was three short for an obliterator, not that I was two under, bought a power weapon and then told you that is was the obliterator?

That my friend is what we call semantics. You don't actually change anything, you just make it sound different.

Is the glass half full? or half empty?

It's a limit. It's not a hard limit to meet, with a little effort, for any army in the game--even in fantasy. There's just no good excuse for going over.

It's kind of stupid, and the logic isn't all right. But I don't mind 5 points over so long as you aren't buying something after you've met your mark. (ie. you need another 3 points to fit in a third Obliterator in your squad - this is fine. But not...hmm...I'm already at the limit, but I can go over....I know! Meltabombs! - not cool.
Like Zarahemna said, the problem isthey could state it to you in a different way - as in they count the "goodies" before the units.
What if those Melta Bombs listed somewhere towards the beginning of the list were the reason they needed extra points for that Obliterator near the end of the list?

Id have to say that the point limit is just that a limit, its like driving over the limits against the law but anywere unders ok though to far unders just stuped.
Those extra points dont usually matter, one bolt pistol wont do athing to the outcome of the game. But abusing the limit to slip something really good could an exta 5-10 points to remove one normal wargear and add something that gives you a better save or something could just swing the game in that persons favor.
In the end just asking goes a long way but only if youve gota im not going to make you lose a marine because he puts you 1 point over but if you can stick to the limits.

We generally go directly on the value or slightly under. Never over, that is for sure.

With the older codex books that could occur. With the newer ones, however, most things are nice even numbers. 5 or 10 over can be a big advantage.