Let the battle Commence!

PLEASE NOTE: All board edges and turn orders will be determined randomly!

This will be a Gamma level recon mission using the infiltrate, deepstrike, and victory point special rules. AFG will have the north board edge and the first turn while Doodle will have the south board edge and the second turn.

http://www.firesnaps.com/Pictures/ironangel256-f98fe3e42c73b604e0044fb09f971b56/32b85de69f190e3af54b590704f62178/Medium/ccd1f1357e71fc7d335e795f9c768669.gif

In the red corner weighing in at an impressive 56 models and 0 pieces of armor is the Lord of all cactus plants, KARDOODLE!

HQ

Winged Sorceror
Lash (MoS)

ELITES

5 x Terminator
IoCG
Powerfist x 2
Combi melta x 4
Heavy Flamer

5 x Terminator
IoCG
Powerfist x 2
Combi plasma x 5

TROOPS

8 Chaos Marines
IoCG
plasma Gun
Fist champ
185

8 Chaos Marines
IoCG
Plasma Gun
Fist champ
185

FAST ATTACK:

Raptors x 8
melta gun x 2
Power fist
IoK

Raptors x 8
Melta gun x 2
Lightning Claws

HEAVY:

Obliterators x 3

Obliterators x 2

HAvocs x 8
4 x missile launcher


In the blue corner coming in with 2k pts, 147 bodies and 3 pieces of armor is the person that can see miles down the road, ARCHONFARSEERGUY!


My Imperial guard list with Inquisitorial allies.
HQ
Heroic Senior Officer "The Rock" Hodgson- Iron Discipline. His squad includes a Master Vox and 3 veterans, one of which is a Medic.
-123

Inquisitor Lord Frederick and Meatshield- Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Icon of the Just, Thunder Hammer. His squad sports 3 Warriors, 3 Sages, 3 Familiars, and an Acolyte-186

Fast Attack
10 Rough Riders- Meltabombs, Hunting Lances, Vet. Sarge w/- Honorifica Imperialis
-181

Elites
Independant Commissar "6 Million Dollar Man"- Bionics, Master-crafted Power Fist, Carapace Armour, Refractor Field, Frag Grenades
-110 (I think)

Vindicare Assassin Bullseye Roberstson
-X

Troops
Platoon 1- Mainstay of the Cadian 9th
Platoon Command- Junior Officer and Vox
Platoon 1 Squad 1- Vox, Autocannon
Platoon 1 Squad 2- Vox, Autocannon
Platoon 1 Squad 3- Vox, Autocannon
-285

Platoon 2- other Mainstay of the Cadian 9th
The same as Platoon 1

Squad those who were too slow for the Press Gang
50 Conscripts
-X

Heavy Support
Leman Russ- Smoke Launchers, Hull Lascannon, Sponson heavy Bolters
-168

Russ Demolisher- Sponson Plasma Cannnons, Hull Heavy Bolter
Russ Demolisher- Sponson Plasma Cannnons, Hull Heavy Bolter
-350

2000 points
150 models

When casting your vote please be sure to either put the name of the winner you chose as the subject line of your post or put it in bold somewhere in the post, thanks!

Generals of the above armies, please post your tactics for the battle as soon as you are able!

HELL STRIKE

'They outnumber us 3 to 1'
'Then it is an even fight'

- Vadum from Halo.

The key when fighting the guard is not to be dissuaded by their numbers or their huge amount of guns.. or that silly big mob of conscripts.

The key for me this match is the mission - Recon - getting scoring units into his deployment zone.

There's no way I'm going to footslog all the way across wading through conscripts and battle cannon fire.

Additionally, I have almost no cover in my half in comparison - which is great.

So this round, I will hellstrike (deepstrike en mass). Using the cover in his own half againt him.

The CSM and Havocs have drawn the short end of the stick on this one, and will be placed well and truly out of sight and playing sweeper duty. Remember, this is a recon mission, he needs to get people in my deployment zone.

The havocs will play havoc with his armour (see what I did there?) and stay in cover. I fully expect them to be utterly annihilated and beaten badly. They should be able to take out one, or maybe two armour assets though.

Remember, they'll get cover saves against battle cannons and plasma cannons. And he can't really justify ignoring the them heh heh.

So what do I do?

Simple.. all my assets are held in reserve apart from 1 squad of raptors, who will be well into cover and my lynch pin in case of bad deployment.

The rest hellstrike into him causing pain and confusion. All the units are capable of dealing with infantry and armour alike.

If he deploys his conscripts in a manner that will block deepstrike to his part of the terrain, then I'll simply deepstrike my assets to any one of my many icons on the board, and take him in a long ranged match. (the vindicaire will make things interesting, however, he won't be able to kill all my icons).

Once his armour is out of the way (which is likely with terminators, obliterators and havoc), I think my CSM will easily be able to weather 6 autocannons.

If he deploys his conscripts like that, then he'll simply clog up his own lines and find it very difficult to move. So, I can user superior raptor movement, and late game deepstrikers to get into his deployment zone, get into cover, and score me some points for the mission.

If he deploys normally, with a conscripts push (which is what he's likely to do), then my CSM are going to get it in the pants, but they'll hold them back and provide a pretty serious block and also free up space in his deployment zone for deepstriking shenanigans :D

It'll be a brutal and bloody match. I expect to lose many a fine legionnaire, however, this day; the elites force will rain supreme..

My army seems lack lustre, however, its beauty is in it's flexibility and the fact that it doesn't rely on one specific unit to win. I will expand or contract to which ever my opponent find least comfortable.

Remember, I have plotted in my victory without considering what impact on the game my HQ will have with his lash and force weapon.

ARGH!!!!! *swears loudly

I had a long reply then the computer froze when I attempted to download the Chaos Reference sheet http://www.mithaearon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tla/images/smilies/new/redangry.gif.
(oooh yeah, TLA smilie)

The plan will be to watch the Havocs get their butts blown out of wherever they are Turn 1. They will hinder my progress. Otherwise, I'll advance forwards with everything except Robertson and the Russ. The Demolishers will come halfway up, so they can do damage to most of the battlefield. Turn 1 movement will see everyone move up (except the aforementioned units). By Turn 6 I should have more units in his zone than he has units full stop.

The fact that he's Deep Striking is in my advantage. It means that I can pick him off piecemeal. easier. Every Ordnance shot will do loads of damage (so what if he has cover? A 4+ cover-if that- is better for me than 2+ Armour). Remember that the Demolishers will Instant Death the Oblits (I trust they have 2 wounds each?).

Frederick and the 6 Million Dollar man (accompanied by his little *cough* retinue) will do well in combat, with only that blasted Chaos Lord to worry about (the Power Fists butts belong to Robertson). They can win in combat, and they should win pretty easily at range.

If he doesn't get paranoia about the RRs, they will close in and do the world of damage to any unit they hit (courtesy of their Hunting Lances), with luck, it will be a big unit they charge initially.

I don't mind if 4 or 5 units end up in my zone (here the Oblits, Termies and Havocs) when I have 11 that should end up in theirs, unless my rolls are really bad.

-AFG

I believe that Karmoon will be the one to take this battle. I find that the Deep Striking will be to his advantage, rather than his loss. The terminators (if close enough when DSing) could get rear armor shots on armor, and the heavy flamer will do wonders in this army. The Obliterators will be able to manage rear armor lascannon shots while the IG vehicles drive forward. The raptors should be able to manage a full assault and also be able to steal into the deployment zone for the sixth turn. I imagine a fair few squads of IG will reach the enemy zone, but without vehicles, and taking many losses, I think it will be enough to push things in Karmoon's favor.

Cant do it... just cant do it. Cant vote for chaos twice.

I think the weight of firepower will pick the chaos units to pieces. Chaos will not have many scoring units left at the end of the game.

Alot has been put on deep striking to get rear shots on vehicles. Easily defended against and risky at best.

Guard gets the win and Archonfartseerguy goes home happy but bloodied.

Yoj

With so much deep striking, I'm not sure Karmoon has the numbers to hold out in the early turns, or to do enough damage in the later turns. I see the IG walking relatively umolested across the board to score big.

Archonfartseerguy, FTW.

I think Karmoon has the win here; those guard just don't seem to be packing enough heavy weapons beyond the three pieces of armour. I mean, an autocannon for every ten guardsmen in the infantry platoons plus no special weapons, and nothing beyond lasguns for the conscripts and the command squads/platoon. All Karmoon needs to do is wipe the normal russ's battlecannon off the board and thats a turn or two of breathing room for the havocs. (Six autocannons should only be able to pick off a havoc or two a turn and after turn one they will have other targets to worry about.)

Theres also all that cover as well, those trees especially, get the second squad of raptors behind them and watch 'em tear away at anything they come near. (The first squad being held back to stop anything from getting across the board as Karmoon said.)

The IG autocannons won't matter since the IG have to slogg it the entire board. Karmoon's tactics should prevail on this one. He's got the flexibility to cover every situation. AFG is relying on IG to brute force their way across the board. Don't think so. I know he thinks it unlikely for the 50 man mob of conscripts to make a morale test after shooting(have to take down 13 guys for the 25%) but one heavy flamer can accomplish that. The IG tactics don't seem to have any back-up plans. Not having a "Plan B" is bad. And seeing as Moony's got "Preparations A-G", and possibly a "Preparation H"... :D

Great tactics, even if if they're RISKY tactics, usually get my vote over brute force...

KARMOON, ftw.;Y

My concern with all the DSing is that IG cover a lot of ground. With scatter and the 1" rule, I see Karmoon's plan as flawed. I would expect an inordinant amount of casualties to DS for Chaos.

I also see lots of dakka and plasma on those Demolishers. Anyway it's sliced, the armour won't have to be picky when selecting targets for the first round. And when the Chaos starts to land they will be getting a face full.

I don't discount the power of the Chaos build, but there are too many variables in having the majority of one's army arrive via DS. Icons would certainly help, but those have to make it to the field also.

Tactical victory to Archonfarseerguy. It would be a very entertaining battle to see played out.

I also see lots of dakka and plasma on those Demolishers. Anyway it's sliced, the armour won't have to be picky when selecting targets for the first round. And when the Chaos starts to land they will be getting a face full.


Thats true, the demolishers do each have a trio of decent ranged guns, but even if both were to go for the havocs with all of those sponson and hull guns they would still need line of sight and range. (I want to believe that all three pieces of armour are not going to be next to each other.)

I don't discount the power of the Chaos build, but there are too many variables in having the majority of one's army arrive via DS. Icons would certainly help, but those have to make it to the field also.



His Icons ARE already out, thats part of his back-up plan.

I will have to vote for Kardoodle here. As people have said above, once those russes are gone it should be a cactus walk...

Kardoodle, I like his list and he should be able to get the mission win fairly ok, after a fight.

His Icons ARE already out, thats part of his back-up plan.

What I was attempting to point out is that the grand plan is tactically flawed. Falling back on plan-B isn't nearly as good as DSing into the IG lines. In fact, it gives the IG an upper hand.

The question is, does Moon DS or not? I think AFG can manuever well enough to make it too costly to attempt. Being forced into plan-B, Moon will face the very thing he was trying to avoid.

Regardless, AFG has a plan for the DS assault and suggested a good way to counter the plan.

I wouldn't say Moon is at a severe disadvantage, but he has less than ideal conditions to work with giving the IG an edge.

I know he thinks it unlikely for the 50 man mob of conscripts to make a morale test after shooting(have to take down 13 guys for the 25%) but one heavy flamer can accomplish that.

The independant commissar will stop them from running, but that's not really an issue. With Lash of Submission on the board, it's not like they're going to get where they want to go.


The plan will be to watch the Havocs get their butts blown out of wherever they are Turn 1. They will hinder my progress. Otherwise, I'll advance forwards with everything except Robertson and the Russ. The Demolishers will come halfway up, so they can do damage to most of the battlefield. Turn 1 movement will see everyone move up (except the aforementioned units). By Turn 6 I should have more units in his zone than he has units full stop.

Now this is why I vote for Karmoon. Everything advances? Including units that need to be hiding? Ok, we can quickly kiss goodbye the roughriders, they're not going to make it through the next turn of angry bolter fire. Next, Archon is completely disregarding the Lash, not a good choice IMO. Personally, I'd first use it to get the vindicare into bolter range and eliminate him (giving the Sorc a clear run), and after that it could indefinitely keep the mob of conscripts away, or just drag them forward into rapid fire range of the CSM units, and a subsequent charge from both raptor units. Even that 50 man unit won't be looking too peachy after that.

Ultimately by advancing, Archon's army will just end up floundering in no man's land get torn apart by bolter fire and counter charges. Sure, sure, 2, maybe 3 units might make it through in scoring shape, but that's all of 255pts and a fair trade for Karmoon. By moving out of his DZ, Archon is giving Karmoon the room to run riot with more than 3 times the amount of points (plus Raptors, if they get bored with beating up guardsmen).

The thing that really lets down Archon's army though, is that he didn't bring any AP2-3 weapons outside of his tanks. Not a good choice IMO, specially not for this matchup. Sorry Archon, if you'd said you'd done the right thing and stayed in your DZ and counter attacked Karmoon out of it, then I may have voted for you, or probably would have abstained due to not being able to figure out who'd win.

After a ripe fine headache over this battle, I'm throwing my lot in with Papa Kardoodle. Initially, I had favored Archon, but on further reflection, it really does seem that the russes hold the majority of his stomping power. Once gone, Papa should proceed with 'relative' ease.

tbh, the reason I ignored th Lash was because I don't have the Chaos Codex and I don't know many of the items, the Lash being included. Pretty much all I know is that the Champions are can be souped up heaps, the Raptors are Assault-type Marines, the Havocs are like Devastators, and suchlike.

Oh well, I guess I could have had better tactics. Good game Kardoodle.

-AFG

I think this battle could go ever way but with the amount of guardsmen it will be hard to deepstrike into there deployment zone and it seems from the tactics the roughriders are going to be a bit further down on the kill list than they should be when it comes to power armour armies, Also deepstriking could be helpful in this mission but you never know if there gonna get there on time.

So i vote for ArchonFarseerGuy

I think this battle could go ever way but with the amount of guardsmen it will be hard to deepstrike into there deployment zone

If you read Archon's tactics, he's actually planning a mass exodus. Meaning that deployment zone is fair game...

What I was attempting to point out is that the grand plan is tactically flawed. Falling back on plan-B isn't nearly as good as DSing into the IG lines. In fact, it gives the IG an upper hand.

The question is, does Moon DS or not? I think AFG can manuever well enough to make it too costly to attempt. Being forced into plan-B, Moon will face the very thing he was trying to avoid.

Regardless, AFG has a plan for the DS assault and suggested a good way to counter the plan.

I wouldn't say Moon is at a severe disadvantage, but he has less than ideal conditions to work with giving the IG an edge.

My plan is equally adapated to an IG advance or not. Both will use za deepstrike.

If they stay put, i deepstrike to my icons deployed and then take out the armour from range. From then on, it's a fire fight, and the IG will have to move a fair distance to bring those many many las guns in range.

They'll have 9 autocannons and a vindicare for ranged fire once the tanks are gone. That's not enough to hurt a CSM army.

If he pushes forward, then i'll deepstrike comboed off raptors icons and also in gaps behind his deployment line. I'll still be able to take out his armour with relative ease, plus then he has to split his force in two directions.

He'll probably massacre a lot of my forces, but I have more chance of completing the mission.

I'm doing the dynamic movement in this match. The IG are more relying on me falling into their giant conscript belly and then reacting.

The fact is, if he stays still, from a distance I can out shoot him. At close range, his lasguns will massacre me, but I can lash and force CC where I want it. CC will be devastating against his fire power, as it block LOS.

if he advances forward, then his rear is clear to be deepstruck into, or, depending on the circumstance, i can still support the units in my own deployment zone also.

I have the tactical flexibility.

Actually, it's just occurred to me. Taking down those Havocs would have been a good idea. the CSMs can only take out one squad per turn max (and the troops have an unmodified Ld9), so that's up to 4 dead squads tops before I charge into his DZ en masse (with the Russ, Demolishers and Vindicare giving fire support). That means I have 6 squads at least that should make it into his zone, given that he has 9 squads (of which at least 3 will die).

But hey, it's too late for last minute revelations now.

-AFG

I fully expect the havocs to die.. but after they've crippled one of the russes or other things. They won't be shooting at troops. If they live to shoot troops, that'll be a bonus :)

I think it's a bit much that you expect to take no casualties at all from the sounds of things :)

Mostly, I'll be ignoring the infantry, and only slowing them down in CC.

Either way, it would be a great match to have :D

Thing is, they would have died Turn 1, I have the first turn. Most of your troops will be DSing and the Marines won't be able to shoot for a while and are only 2 squads (so thats a max 2 squads per turn). Just the logic behind my slightly eccentric plan.:C

-AFG

I think you're assuming a bit much there. Havoks dead on turn one? Highly unlikely. Lets review your tactics.

Turn 1 movement will see everyone move up (except the aforementioned units). By Turn 6 I should have more units in his zone than he has units full stop.

This means you have a grand total of 3 Ordnance blasts, and 1 exitus rifle. Considering Karmoon has stated the Havoks will be placed in cover, the logical choice is the rocks, a 4+ save. It would also be logical to spread the unit out to minimise ordnance impacts to 3-4 men on a direct hit. Next you have to consider the variable nature of the Ordnance, odds say you'll be getting 1 decent hit from the volley, then you need to roll to wound, and beat his cover save. After all that you need to get rid of 4 marines before you can actually remove a heavy weapon.

Which is why I think you're definitely over rating your firepower in the first turn. As far as IG armies go, you've got very little to brag about on turn 1.

Thing is, they would have died Turn 1, I have the first turn.

Even with first turn, all of your heavy weapons, and armour weapons, would still have to be in range; that and your more likely to only kill four or five of the havocs with all of that long range firepower. (Seeing as the havoc squad has four models there to soak up wounds, that would leave most or all of the missile launchers unharmed.)

Even with a leadership of eight or nine, the havocs are more likely to stay where they are and do some damage in Karmoon's turn.

I think I am going to have to vote for Kardoodle here. If the Havocs can do their prefered job early on, then the IG don't have the guns to knock out all that power armour. The Chaos bolters will rip through the IG in return, and even with their superior numbers, I can't see them surviving.

Kardoodle ftw

ninja out

MATCH CLOSED!