Fred_Scuttle posted the following on Warseer. Most of this is already known and some of it clarrifies certain things, but the rest is new info. I have edited this as I have recieved additional info on Vlad.8Y

Hello All.

Take these as they are folks - to be trusted.


• The entire army benefits and suffers from all
the special rules for the Undead.


• Vampires are more than just a character
choice. Blood Knights, Black Coaches and
the Varghulf are all Vampires and allow
Undead within 6” to March move,
reinforcing the sense of the Vampire Counts
army.


Corpse Cart:

• All friendly units within 6” can benefit from
the Always Strike First rule

• Can be upgraded to incur a -1 casting
penalty on enemy Wizards within 24”, or to
add 1 to the number of wounds healed by
an Invocation of Nehek spell on a unit
within 6”.

• Corpse Carts are a Core unit.


Blood Knights:

• Ultimate shock heavy cavalry that will give
Khorne Chosen Knights a run for their
money: frenzied Vampire knights with three
Strength 7 attacks each on the charge

• Vampire special rule allows units within 6”
to March.


Varghulf:

• Bestial vampiric lone monster
– impressive profile with
Regeneration, causes Terror
and subject to Hatred of
everything!

• Vampire special rule allows
units within 6” to March


Mannfred von Carstein:

• At his most powerful,
Mannfred knows all the
Necromantic spells and all
those from the Lore of
Death

• Mounted on a Nightmare:
can be used to represent
Mannfred the Acolyte or
Mannfred Count of
Sylvania


Vlad von Carstein:

• Powerful warrior and wizard,
and almost unkillable with the
Carstein Ring which grants a
4+ Ward save and returned to
life after death on a 2+
(once per game. JvK)

• Will go berserk if Isabella von Carstein is killed
(he become subject to hatred and frenzy. JvK)


Konrad von Carstein:

• Most powerful Hero
level warrior-Vampire
in the army list

• Hates everything, and
stands a chance of
succumbing to either
Frenzy or Stupidity
each turn.

JvK :happy:

Varghulf:

• Bestial vampiric lone monster
– impressive profile with
Regeneration, causes Terror
and subject to Hatred of
everything!

• Vampire special rule allows
units within 6” to March

JOY! I was worryed from what I had heard so far about the Varghulfs stat line that it would be a bit easy to take dow compared to its points cost, but if it has regeneration, terror and hatred that makes it very viable!

Hmm, deploy one of these on the flank with some black knights to support...

Some of these are accually new to me! Thanks... I am going to read up on them, I do like the sounc of all of these... Although hate the ASF rule as I play mostly against HE at the moment... they have the same and then back to initiative, which they win... unless:C
Vampires have a nice I!:?

So does VC have a weakness anymore? ASF everywhere due to corpse carts with cheap decent save undead. the whole army is unbreakable, doesnt care about shooting since healing units is even easier and more potent. ridiculous shock troops. can move through terrain cavalry.....all tehy need now is a gunline and we dont need any other armies.

Undead aren't that cheap and won't do much even with striking first, the vampires striking first will be the issue, you could kill the corpse cart, healing units is magic and therefor random and potentially dangerous, those shock troops are extremely expensive, black knights used to be worse than every other armies heavy cavalry and they needed a boost.

I don't think this will "break" the VC rules... Although I have this phobia of ASF, which might prove very powerful...

Oh hotness! Urge to start VC rising....

Tekore

ASF seems to be the rending of WHFB. What used to be a powerful but narrowly used rule to give select armies and units flavor and interesting interaction with the normal flow of combat is tossed everywhere as a quick fix.

What will be the point of manouvering for a charge if 1/2 the units in the game get ASF?

Anyways, I'm very much looking forward to getting the new rulebook and new models. The blood knights seem... well very extreem. Run right through the opponent's army one game all by themselves, or eat a bolt thrower/cannon/armour ignoring spell the next and knock you way back in points.

Varghulf I'm really looking forward to. It seems like a giant strigoi, which has always been my bloodline.

I have mixed feelings towards the vampire vs necromancer changes as far as magic goes. Not that I don't like vampires, but it was always fun to run a necromancer army once in a while. Just the idea of some weeny human at the front of an army of imaginary (spirit hosts) and home made friends beating up on all the knights and heros who picked on him in high school made me smile.

Indeed I sort of feel a little annoyed about the ASF for Zombies especially considering the fact that I am A High Elf players (who needs a cart when you can do it naturally :rofl-meh) so I hope this does not become a common feature.
On the other hand considering that zombies will be S2 and T2 does counter this somewhat, not only that it is not known how much the other upgrades will cost either.

In regards to Vlad I should mention that according to my source the carstein ring can only resurrect Vlad once per game. This still makes him nasty but does not make him unkillable, though considering how nasty he is I do not see him snuffing it very often.

JvK :happy:

ASF seems to be the rending of WHFB. What used to be a powerful but narrowly used rule to give select armies and units flavor and interesting interaction with the normal flow of combat is tossed everywhere as a quick fix.


You took the words right out of my mouth.

Vampire always had ASF. Lahmians had it as a bloodline power, and any unit could be given ASF from the hellish vigor necromancy spell (and then they can reroll to hit as well!). The army that only recently got ASF was the high elves, and they had never had it before. In fact many players, including myself, had mobile zones of ASF because of the staff of damnation magic item, which gave ASF(and reroll to hit) in a 12" bubble.

Perhaps but that was only as part of a spell which could be countered in turn. Not only that only the Lahmians really had it and then as part of their magic items/bloodline powers allowance.
All I am worried about is that we will see ASF becoming the super rule that will start turning up in several armies. :?

JvK :happy:

Hellish vigor, with either just casting it or using the staff, only worked on your turn, and only if you got the magic off. Thus even with a powerful character in the front of a unit, getting charged or charging still had a major effect on the first round of combat, thus why I personaly loved dance macabre, because getting the charge let me strike first anyway.

Sure Lamian's had ASF, and that is what made that bloodline powerful in the field. With the high init and ASF and a sword of might those four ASF str 6 attacks could really change a game.

I'm just worried that the ASF will become so common in the next few army books that those armies without it will be left behind.

One finnal point, I don't mean to sound too nagative here, I'm really looking forward to the new book, and a lot of the new units and models appeal to me. I'm not mopping and depressed about the new book or anything! (All those feelings I have are still directed at the Chaos:SM codex)

I'm just worried that the ASF will become so common in the next few army books that those armies without it will be left behind.

My sentiments exactly.

I'm not mopping and depressed about the new book or anything! (All those feelings I have are still directed at the Chaos:SM codex)

I can only assume you play Alpha Legion. :rofl

JvK :happy:

JOY! I was worryed from what I had heard so far about the Varghulfs stat line that it would be a bit easy to take down compared to its points cost, but if it has regeneration, terror and hatred that makes it very viable!
Indeed! The Varghulf is sounding quite interesting.

All I am worried about is that we will see ASF becoming the super rule that will start turning up in several armies.
Well, if every army has ASF, then it won't be a problem anymore! :D
I really hope it doesn't end up like that, though, and I know for a fact I'm not alone in thinking that!

I completely agree that ASF should not become the new super rule (worse than rending in 40k is "fleet"). Who is to say that the corpse cart doesn't use a bound spell to give things ASF, I had heard a rumor along those lines, but we will all find out later when the book comes out. The range on the ASF is very small at only 6", so at most it will hit 2 units. The corpse cart will also probably be rather expensive as it is probably a chariot, so it will cost at least 90 points, not including the special ability. Chariots can't march so it could slow your army down. Buying multiple corpse carts and the new hard-hitting units will give you much fewer numbers than you can have now, and we all know hordes of troops work better for fear causing units. I can see it as being a perfectly acceptable trade off.

It is my opinion that ASF should stay where it belongs, on Slaneeshi daemons and Lahmian Vampires only(I won't get into how much I think GW dropped the ball with High Elves). But it doesn't matter what I think, GW will do it anyway. I share your concern, my beasts of chaos army has an uphill battle any time it is against an ASF troop. My point is that before people jump on the bandwagon and complain about x and y they should realize that vampires already had ASF. It isn't anything new, it just might be getting slightly better.

Elrond89 posted this on Warseer. I cannot vouch for the validity of these however but I thought they might be worth posting. :)

NEW RUMORS (I hope)

The Corpse Cart has a bound spell (power 3) that will allow friendly units withi 6" to strike first in the next combat, in other words it's a watered down Hellish Vigor which the VC (http://warseer.com/forums/glossary.php?do=viewglossary&term=72) have had for a while now, so...

The Corpse Cart is 75 points, doesn't count towards core requirements, 5+ armor save, Regeneration, 2d6 attacks, S2, T4, 3W, M4.

Ghouls are exactly the same as before, stat line the same, except they don't skirmish and they're undead now. No musicians and no standards is going to suck. They cost 8 points.

Zombies cost 4 points.

Cairn Wraiths are the skirmishing ethereal troops. 50 points per model, minimum unit size is 3, cause terror, M6, 2 wounds, 2 attacks. One model can be upgraded to a Banshee, in which case they lose an attack and gain the Banshee scream.

No skeletal horsemen, but the Black Knights are still around as specials.

Black Coaches are rares, 200 points, no 0-1 requirement.

Ethereal rules remain the same, except they now include an immunity to spells that hinder movement.

KotBK have 1 wound instead of the rumored 2.

Skeletons cost 8 points, but come with shield and light armor. They may be upgraded to have spears.

JvK :happy:

The corpse cart isn't a chariot? Interesting. The bound spell thing goes along with what I heard. It seem rather frail, so it could be tough keeping it alive.

I've seen the ghoul's stat line, it is confirmed at being exactly the same (unless they realize the mistake they are making and change it) so you are spot on. Without skirmishers there seems to be no reason to take them anymore.

Man, those wraiths are expensive! I wonder if 150 points is worth it to cause terror and have banshee scream...

The change to ethereal rules is intelligent.

If this rumor about the Cairn Wraiths is true, GW can keep their poxy Knights of the Blood Keep; I'll be loading up on Skeletons, GG and Black Knights and have one or two 5 strong units of Cairn Wraiths. A terror-causing ethereal flanking unit isn't likely to give up too many points of CR (Got magic weapons? No? Too bad.) and having a Banshee screaming into the combat only increases the chances of winning.

Is there any more information available about the Wraiths? Will the stat-line be the same as it was previously? Is there an invulnerable save? Great Weapons? Are we going to get new models for these guys, or should I start planning my conversions?

Cairn Wraiths are the skirmishing ethereal troops. 50 points per model, minimum unit size is 3, cause terror, M6, 2 wounds, 2 attacks. One model can be upgraded to a Banshee, in which case they lose an attack and gain the Banshee scream.

Black Coaches are rares, 200 points, no 0-1 requirement.

Ethereal rules remain the same, except they now include an immunity to spells that hinder movement.

KotBK have 1 wound instead of the rumored 2.

These rumours are pretty interesting. KotBK don't seem so threatening with only one wound, givent that I suspect a lot of shooting might be directed their way. Still probably pretty hard to kill, though.

The Ethereal changes certainly make sense. What are we coming to, when GW does stuff that makes sense! (Oh, we tease them a little too much sometimes)

No 0-1 on the Black Coach? Interesting... Though I'm not sure how it affects things.

Cairn Wraiths? They sound interesting. And potentially very nasty too. Though I agree, fairly expensive. They sound like they could be worth the cost though.

How come we're suddenly getting all this stuff that sounds like it would work really well as a flanking unit?

If this rumor about the Cairn Wraiths is true, GW can keep their poxy Knights of the Blood Keep; I'll be loading up on Skeletons, GG and Black Knights and have one or two 5 strong units of Cairn Wraiths. A terror-causing ethereal flanking unit isn't likely to give up too many points of CR (Got magic weapons? No? Too bad.) and having a Banshee screaming into the combat only increases the chances of winning.

Is there any more information available about the Wraiths? Will the stat-line be the same as it was previously? Is there an invulnerable save? Great Weapons? Are we going to get new models for these guys, or should I start planning my conversions?

Too bad skirmishing units don't deny rank bonus. With only 2 attacks each I can easily see them loosing a fight to a full unit just on combat res alone and crumbling.

Elrond89 posted this on Warseer. I cannot vouch for the validity of these however but I thought they might be worth posting. :)

NEW RUMORS (I hope)

Zombies cost 4 points.

Cairn Wraiths are the skirmishing ethereal troops. 50 points per model, minimum unit size is 3, cause terror, M6, 2 wounds, 2 attacks. One model can be upgraded to a Banshee, in which case they lose an attack and gain the Banshee scream.

No skeletal horsemen, but the Black Knights are still around as specials.

Black Coaches are rares, 200 points, no 0-1 requirement.

Ethereal rules remain the same, except they now include an immunity to spells that hinder movement.

KotBK have 1 wound instead of the rumored 2.

Skeletons cost 8 points, but come with shield and light armor. They may be upgraded to have spears.

Points wise thats pretty much the same points costs as zombies ghouls and skeletons used to be in the old pure undead rulebook from 10 years back. Cairn Wraiths w/ some black knights are really sounding like a better choice to me than the black knights, and I bet they won't be as moronically expensive money wise either, they'll work out to be very special flanking units if you can keep magic away from em'.

Hmmm so 320 points + another 20 or so for command for the 40 skeleton core blocks I'm planning, thats not too bad.

Originally Posted by forthegloryofkazadekrund on warseer

08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS BOOK (ENGLISH) £12.00 € 22.50 kr 175.00 kr 200.00 kr 225.00 978184154863 0 96pp book

08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS SKELETONS £12.00 € 20.00 kr 140.00 kr 170.00 kr 200.00 99120207010 10 Fig Box

08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS GRAVE GUARD £15.00 € 22.50 kr 175.00 kr 200.00 kr 225.00 99120207011 10 Fig Box

08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS CRYPT GHOULS £12.00 € 20.00 kr 140.00 kr 170.00 kr 200.00 99120207012 10 Fig Box

08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS CORPSE CART £15.00 € 22.50 kr 175.00 kr 200.00 kr 225.00 99120207013 1 Fig Box

08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS DIRE WOLVES £12.00 € 20.00 kr 140.00 kr 170.00 kr 200.00 99120207014 10 Fig Box

08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS MANNFRED £15.00 € 22.50 kr 175.00 kr 200.00 kr 225.00 99110207167 1 Fig Box Set (mounted)

08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS WINGED VAMPIRE LORD £7.00 € 11.50 kr 85.00 kr 100.00 kr 100.00 99060207169 1 Fig Blister

08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS VAMPIRE LORD £7.00 € 11.50 kr 85.00 kr 100.00 kr 100.00 99060207170 1 Fig Blister

08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS KONRAD VON CARSTEIN £7.00 € 11.50 kr 85.00 kr 100.00 kr 100.00 99060207171 1 Fig Blister

08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS VLAD VON CARSTEIN £7.00 € 11.50 kr 85.00 kr 100.00 kr 100.00 99060207172 1 Fig Blister

08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS NECROMANCER £7.00 € 11.50 kr 85.00 kr 100.00 kr 100.00 1 Fig Blister

08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS MANNFRED, COUNT OF SYLVANIA £7.00 € 11.50 kr 85.00 kr 100.00 kr 100.00 1 Fig Blister

22-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS BATTALION £50.00 € 80.00 kr 650.00 kr 750.00 kr 750.00 99120207015 51 Fig Box

22-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS VARGHULF £15.00 € 22.50 kr 175.00 kr 200.00 kr 225.00 99110207166 1 Fig Box

22-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS BLOOD KNIGHTS £40.00 € 70.00 kr 500.00 kr 600.00 kr 600.00 99110207168 5 Fig Box

22-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS BLOOD KNIGHT £10.00 € 15.00 kr 115.00 kr 140.00 kr 150.00 1 Fig Blister

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some fairly interesting info on potential UK prices, sorry if people have already seen this?

Although £40 for the knights of the blood keep the £10 per blister *yelp*

Too bad skirmishing units don't deny rank bonus. With only 2 attacks each I can easily see them loosing a fight to a full unit just on combat res alone and crumbling.

Oh, I wasn't planning on using them alone. A nice ranked unit of skeletons or GG and then something cheap like zombies or a small unit of wolves to remove rank bonuses (if necessary). If the Wraiths keep their great weapons they won't need too many attacks, since they're not too likely to suffer wounds in return.

I think the best thing will be that we'll now have two more units (BK and Wraiths, according to rumors) that can pretty much ignore terrain and inflict some fairly high strength hits on a charge.

Originally Posted by forthegloryofkazadekrund on warseer
08-Mar-08 VAMPIRE COUNTS DIRE WOLVES £12.00 10 Fig Box
Yay! Dire Wolves come in a box now!
But why do we have to wait for the Varghulf? What if we want all our beasties at once?

Ah well. I'll get over it. :D

Well its seems that with the price of the KotBK I probally won't have any in my army so instead I'll probally be going with the Wraiths and Varghulf though I kinda wanted an excuse anyways to run wraiths :D .

Also another rumor I have heard over at Warseer is the Battalion box will have 51 models which will be 20 skeletons, 20 zombies (old ones), 10 ghouls, and 1 corpse cart. Which once you add it all together is actually a fairly good deal (if the rumor is true of course...) and should offset a little bit of the new skeletons cost.

Whats KotBk?:?

Whats KotBk?:?

"Knights of the Blood Keep" or one of the new units in the VC army book. They are extremely expensive both points and money wise (from what I have heard about $75 US for 5 models). Though they are frenzied and 2 or 3 attacks base (haven't quite figured it out yet...though probally 2 base) at str 5 with lances so they will be devastating on the charge though IMO a little to vulnerable to range.

"Knights of the Blood Keep" or one of the new units in the VC army book. They are extremely expensive both points and money wise (from what I have heard about $75 US for 5 models). Though they are frenzied and 2 or 3 attacks base (haven't quite figured it out yet...though probally 2 base) at str 5 with lances so they will be devastating on the charge though IMO a little to vulnerable to range.

Due to their cost in points and money, as well as how vulnerable they are, I don't think KOTBK are workable for me untill around 2500-3000 point range, so I'll probably stick to wraiths in the low points 1000-2000 with some black knights and a varghulf to back it up. Its a shame as they are quite nice models, but given the choice between the 5 knights box for £40, or 30 skeletons and £4 in pocket I know what I'll be choosing.

I'm pretty sure they're 3 attacks while frenzied, so 16 st7 attacks on the charge from a front rank of 5 including champion, not that that full amount will ever get to the lines against an army with any war machines, as everything under the sun will be aimed at them. Dwarven and empire players will love em, we may as well just give them 250-300 vps straight of the bat if we're in a 2000 point game.

They might be usefull as a small unit of 5 shielded by some Dire Wolves but other than that you are right. They are just too expensive to field in games under 2000pts.

JvK :happy:

They might be usefull as a small unit of 5 shielded by some Dire Wolves but other than that you are right. They are just too expensive to field in games under 2000pts.

JvK :happy:

To be honest I think at 2000 points they're going to be too much of an investment considering their vulnerability at that level, they're rumoured to be around 50-55 points per model, so we're looking at over 300 points investment. Thepotential for the loss of that kind of points quantity in a VC army outside of your general is just too much in my mind. I worry that even using dore wolves as a screening element they'll still be a target for hill mounted war machines, and if the dire wolves get thinned out enough for line of sight...

I'd prefer to use the varghulf by the look of its stats, as people will dispel any attempt by us to ressurect the KOTBK as a priority, a vharghulf will be just as big a firepower magnet, but at least if it has regenerate as rumoured it won't need the same amount of magical support to keep it going so much.

I can only really see myself thinking of fielding them as an add on to get up to 2250 or 2500 points, before that, Vharghulf, Black knights, Wraiths, Grave Guard and a shambling horde of the dead.

True. I think the main flanking units are going to be a Varghulf coupled with some cairn wraiths. I am going to have some fun times countering these with my High Elves. :party:

JvK :happy:

True. I think the main flanking units are going to be a Varghulf coupled with some cairn wraiths. I am going to have some fun times countering these with my High Elves. :party:

JvK :happy:

It'll be easier for HE than most armies, you got plenty of things to make magical hits etc, I'm personally envisaging a vhargulf supported by black knights in 2k games, the vhargulf or cairn wraiths are a few to many points in one place for a 1k game.

Sorry to double post, but: Originally posted by Kakihara on Warseer

Re: 2008 Vampire Counts Battalion Contents?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can confirm that the contents of the Batallion are 20 Zombies, 20 Skeles, 10 Ghouls and a Corpse Cart - no Wolves or Wights, I'm afraid.

A staff member in my local store had the list of what's in each of the boxes.
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Sounds fairly reliable, if so thats bloody brilliant as far as I'm concerned as a new starter as I have none of the core, but to those who already have their core, other than replacement skeleton and ghoul models not much use as the zombies aren't new releases. Its around an £18/£19 saving tho, and 2 of those boxes will be all my core for 1k games, at least I can afford to play them as I wanted to due to this!

Nighthunter

This does sound pretty good to me actually when you look at what you are getting for your money. Considering that you are getting nearly 50 odd models plus a cart this is a damned fine bargin. Considering the increase in popularity of Vampire Counts following the release of this new book I see this set selling very well. 8Y

JvK :happy:

Sorry to double post, but: Originally posted by Kakihara on Warseer

Re: 2008 Vampire Counts Battalion Contents?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can confirm that the contents of the Batallion are 20 Zombies, 20 Skeles, 10 Ghouls and a Corpse Cart - no Wolves or Wights, I'm afraid.

A staff member in my local store had the list of what's in each of the boxes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds fairly reliable, if so thats bloody brilliant as far as I'm concerned as a new starter as I have none of the core, but to those who already have their core, other than replacement skeleton and ghoul models not much use as the zombies aren't new releases. Its around an £18/£19 saving tho, and 2 of those boxes will be all my core for 1k games, at least I can afford to play them as I wanted to due to this!

Nighthunter

Heh as I stated already before, though ya that a very good deal for starting an army (so in other words I'll probally be buying 2 or 3 of those buggers).

Seems like a good deal, but I would rather have wolves over ghouls.

Seems like a good deal, but I would rather have wolves over ghouls.

Just out of curosity why do some people want dire wolves in the battalion box? For me it seems a little silly espically if you want mutiple of the box as if I remember correctly most people will just use dire wolves as screens which means probally about 5+ sized squads. With the new plastic ones coming in boxes of 10 to think that you would need 20-30 of them seems a little overboard (since they no longer count to min core anymore from what rumors say).

While the ghouls now are rank n file and could actually use the extra numbers to get more ranks and such since you can just buy a few dire wolves set (since they are WAY cheaper then the old ones anyways).

Not to mention battalions are starting boxes so they should be rebuyable to get a decent sized force.

No offence though frozencore its just something I've noticed a bit over at warseer and I'm genuinely curious.

Just out of curosity why do some people want dire wolves in the battalion box? For me it seems a little silly espically if you want mutiple of the box as if I remember correctly most people will just use dire wolves as screens which means probally about 5+ sized squads. With the new plastic ones coming in boxes of 10 to think that you would need 20-30 of them seems a little overboard (since they no longer count to min core anymore from what rumors say).

While the ghouls now are rank n file and could actually use the extra numbers to get more ranks and such since you can just buy a few dire wolves set (since they are WAY cheaper then the old ones anyways).

Not to mention battalions are starting boxes so they should be rebuyable to get a decent sized force.

No offence though frozencore its just something I've noticed a bit over at warseer and I'm genuinely curious.

I think a lot of people would rather have the dire wolves as now the ghouls will be rank and file people think their uses are probably going to decrease, tbh I agree with them, and will probably be mixing in ghoul bits with my zombies to produce more of em, I'll need 2 battalions for 1k points, I simply can't see myself using 20 ghouls, let alone 40 if I use the battalions to get all my troops for a 2k game.

Word on Warseer has Dire Wolves losing their Slavering Charge ability. If that happens, there had better be a pretty significant point reduction.

Word on Warseer has Dire Wolves losing their Slavering Charge ability. If that happens, there had better be a pretty significant point reduction.

Or maybe same points and theyre raisable?

Also heard something on Warseer about a new unit, Abbysal Terror, apparently in the book its in the same section as the Varghulf? Any Ideas?

Not too sure about that one to honest.

Oh and it is possible to raise/heal dire wolves.

JvK:happy:

Not too sure about that one to honest.

Oh and it is possible to raise/heal dire wolves.

JvK:happy:

Its not possible to do that at the moment is it? If so I'd say that balances out the points, as you would be able to maintain rank bonus if using a unit of 10.

Its not possible to do that at the moment is it? If so I'd say that balances out the points, as you would be able to maintain rank bonus if using a unit of 10.

I believe there is a limit on how many that can be raised. At least that is what I have heard anyway. ;Y

JvK :happy:

I believe there is a limit on how many that can be raised. At least that is what I have heard anyway. ;Y

JvK :happy:

Yeah I should imagine The unit won't be able to go beyond its original size in the same way as with skeletons, so healing only.

Just out of curosity why do some people want dire wolves in the battalion box? For me it seems a little silly espically if you want mutiple of the box as if I remember correctly most people will just use dire wolves as screens which means probally about 5+ sized squads. With the new plastic ones coming in boxes of 10 to think that you would need 20-30 of them seems a little overboard (since they no longer count to min core anymore from what rumors say).

While the ghouls now are rank n file and could actually use the extra numbers to get more ranks and such since you can just buy a few dire wolves set (since they are WAY cheaper then the old ones anyways).

Not to mention battalions are starting boxes so they should be rebuyable to get a decent sized force.

No offence though frozencore its just something I've noticed a bit over at warseer and I'm genuinely curious.

It has nothing to do with how many you get in a box, or pricing. It has everything to do with the fact that I just don't want ghouls. I will not be using ghouls, therefor I do not want them. Now that they are rank and file and are undead what little utility they had is now gone. I would much rather have zombies or skeletons as rank and file troops over ghouls because zombies are cheaper for numbers and skeletons are the same price and have a 4+ save in combat. The wolves would allow me to add to my current collection, and would give me a flanker to go with the infantry block.

Also, it should be noted that I do not like the look of the ghoul models, nor the feel of the ghouls fluff-wise in my army. Those reasons alone are enough to deter me even without looking at their stats.

As other people have mentioned I will be using ghoul bitz to give some variety to my zombie horde.

Mostly the Vampire Counts players I know use Dire Wolves for screening purpposes only and most VC players already have them. It makes sense that they would not put them in the army box when they know that people will be paying 50 pounds for something they have no interest in using. Ghouls on the other hand might just be worth the money spent on the box, considering the quality of the models, their poisoned attacks, not being able to run away and having ranks which can be restored with magic thanks to them being undead. ;)

JvK :happy:

not everyone who will be getting Vampire counts will already have some models.
im am going to start a blood dragon army with the army set, a battalion, and some more grave gaurd, skellies, and blood knights.
im just using myself as an example,i would really prefer to use an army of all new models. the zombies i hear are the only unit you can raise entirely new units of, the other units you can only heal up to origonal numbers. so i think ill want those 20 zombies
the 30 skellies i get in the combination i will use, also the 10 grave gaurd, but i will need to round these units out.

but, as for usefulness of dire wolves and the ghouls, i dont know, because im not sure about the rules, but i like the models, so i dont i mind that ill have 20 ghouls and 10 dire wolves.

as for the vangulf or whatever its called. its a nice model, seems like a flying treeman to me, but looking at it, i think it will be a rare. this wont normally be a problem, but seeing the bloodknighghts rules, it makes sense for those to be rare also. im not sure on either, im just saying that if they are both rare, they will have to compete for spots

at least they remade all the models instead of releasing a few new ones like they did for HE ( i love the codex, the new models are great, it just got me angry that they didnt remake spearmen, archers and silverhelms, greatswords,white lions, and errylion reaver models needed to be remade i think, lets hope they just update the models without having to wait for a new codex) all im saying is they are shiny new models, so why not get them.

Mostly the Vampire Counts players I know use Dire Wolves for screening purpposes only and most VC players already have them. It makes sense that they would not put them in the army box when they know that people will be paying 50 pounds for something they have no interest in using. Ghouls on the other hand might just be worth the money spent on the box, considering the quality of the models, their poisoned attacks, not being able to run away and having ranks which can be restored with magic thanks to them being undead. ;)

JvK :happy:

I personally plan on getting 3 battalions over the next couple of years to provide the core for my 2000 point base, and at that point a block of 20 ghouls may have their uses, particularly against low str enemys due to their higher toughness, however I can't see myself using more than 10 in a 1000, which is going to leave me with 10 knocking around.

To be honoest I see ghouls acting more as an effective flanking force for your skeletons and zombies so two units of 10 in a 1500pt force would be usefull. ;)

JvK :happy:

To be honoest I see ghouls acting more as an effective flanking force for your skeletons and zombies so two units of 10 in a 1500pt force would be usefull. ;)

JvK :happy:

Yeah that's kinda what I'm thinking along the lines of, although I think its gonna be a bit of an uphill struggle to find the points to include more than 10 max in 1k, and in a 1500 I'm not sure If I wouldn't rather add black knights and a varghulf for flanking. My 1k's gonna be a bit packed, 2 x 10-20 zombies depending on minimum required unit size, 30 skeletons vamp and 2 necros (assuming rumours are accurate) as a base, doesn't leave much for anything else.
:?

Necronurgle on Warseer has managed to get hold of the book and has let slip this little piece of info.

Bat swarms are undead, but otherwise i believe thay are the same. 35pts. per base.

Invocation of Nehek can heal units d6 or 1 wound if they have the vampire or ethereal special rule or are not infantry. This spell also raised d6+4 zombies but does not create a new unit. zombies can be raised past their starting number. Skeletons, Ghouls, dire wolves, batswarms and fell bats can be increased past their starting size if the vampire has a particular power.
The spell raise dead can raise a new unit of d3+4 zombies
The spell summon undead horde summons a new unit of 5d6 zombies, or heals 3d6 wounds distributed as you see fit to any units or characters.http://warseer.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif

Necromancers are lvl1 wizards. That's it. NO upgrades. They only know one spell (your pick) from the following list, but can but access the others for 15pts each: Invocation of Nehek, Raise Dead or Danse Macabre. These are collectively known as the Necromancy Spells. These spells can be cast by the same caster more than once per phase and may affect the same unit more than once per phase. The other spells in what is now known as the Lore of the Vampires are not Necromancy spells are are subject to the same rules as regular magic.
Necromancers cost XX points (I've had to remove this or the mods will get me. JvK). And their spells aren't random. Oh and you can mount them in a corpse cart, which is kinda funny.

There are no vampire thralls. There are Vampire Lords, Vampires, Necromancers and Wight Kings. Everything else is a named character.
Vampire lords are lvl2 wizards (upgradable to 3), Vampires are lvl 1 (no upgrade). You can use a vampiric power to gain a magic level. The other two arcane bloodline powers are: Gain access to all spells from the lore of vampires or all spells from ANY OTHER lore in the book (but not Life). And the other one: gain two additional power dice.

I haven't had time to mess around with the stuff yet, when i do, I'll let you know.

Nice.

JvK :happy:

The spell raise dead can raise a new unit of d3+4 zombies
The spell summon undead horde summons a new unit of 5d6 zombies, or heals 3d6 wounds distributed as you see fit to any units or characters.http://warseer.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif
JvK :happy:

8X

Joy! Necro magic infos!

Summon undead horde, holy hell! Thats gonna get dispelled by everyone! But in the name of all thats rotting and vomit inducing, if you managed to get it off! Not so much for the summon, but if those wounds can be used to heal units you could bring beleagered units back up to near full level!

And Joy! We can make new units! My mate will not be happy, means I can still yank his fanatics!

And this beuaty was posted by Galord on Warseer. I personally love this cover. Dave Gallagher is one hell of an artist.

http://warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32812&d=1200329060

JvK :happy:

Huh... necromancers being stuck at level 1 seems strange. Why bother using up a hero slot for a level 1 necromancer, when you could just take a vampire who is also a level 1 mage? I guess it will really depend on the point difference, and if vampires get access to arcane items, but if a hero level vampire is a good fighter and a mage as well, and you can raise the dead, I think most of my lists are going to have 4 vampires in them, which will be a bit of a shame. I always did like the idea of the necromancers.

Necromancers are better at healing and raising units than vampires are who get the more destructive elements of the Necromancy spell list. Not only that but you get to choose the spell the necromancer takes so it is possible to tailer the necromancer to perform a particular role.

JvK :happy:

Yay, any new info is good info! (Well, maybe not all...)

The changes to magic are interesting. Only Level 1 Necros? I guess, as was said, they're more tailored to a particular role now.

The new format for Lords/Heros is going to be interesting to look through as well.

All I'm really sure of, though, is that this is going to mean a lot of tweaking. What's going to become of my themed army? Hopefully it's still viable.

As for that cover; I think I like it all except for the Vampire's head. Seriously, what is going on with Vampire heads these days? They all (sweeping generalisation) look dodgy. Imagine being stuck with a head like that for eternity! No wonder Vampires are so grumpy.

Thanks again for the update, JvK!

I'm told today (by the GW staff.. but he may not be accurate) that Necromancers are going to be capped at level 2, therefore there is no Lord level Necromancers. It feels weird to have Lv1 Necromancer that can never cast the Summon Zombie Horde spell on 12+.

The following was posted on Warseer by Niox. It seems that the VC can take some rather nifty magic weapons and banners. :)

A few things about standards and units

The most expensive standard gives the unit a 4+ regeneration save.
There also is a 4+ ward save against shooting.
Blood knights can indeed have up to 75 pts magic standards.

If you combine the two standards on a Blood Knight unit,
BSB take generation, unit take 4+ ward, you get a unit that can take
alot of shooting without any serious damage.
4+ , 4+ save agains a cannon/boltthrower. 4+,4+,4+ against handgunners.
2+,4+,4+ against strenght 3 arrows.

And if you want to take it one step futher there is a sword that for every
wound it causes the character may heal one one for himself or the unit he is with.
Put that on a vampire count together with the bloodline power that allows him to reroll all missed attacks.

But the unit will cost more then an arm and a leg. More then half your
points at 2250. And it´s a freenzied unit that most armys easily can bait away.

JvK:happy:

The following was posted on Warseer by Niox. It seems that the VC can take some rather nifty magic weapons and banners. :)

But the unit will cost more then an arm and a leg. More then half your
points at 2250. And it´s a freenzied unit that most armys easily can bait away.

JvK:happy:

Yeah I read this yesterday, and he neglected to mention that it will get shot to pieces, whether by bolt, arrow, shot or magic missile, that unit will get decimated by every means your opponent has. This sort of view goes too close to the old one uber unit of death approach for my liking.

I have placed the list of magic items and vampire powers in a new thread (http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/rumours-previews/111791-complete-vc-magic-items-vampire-powers-list.html) as I feel it deserves one.

Regarding Vlad von Carstein and Isabella von Carstein here is the lowdown.

Vlad von Carstein

M6 WS7 BS5 S5 T5 W4 I8 A5 Ld10

He is a level 3 Wizard.
Blood Drinker: Vampire Only, each unsaved wound heals a wound to the wielder or the unit they are in.
Carstein Ring: Provides Vlad with a 4+ save and he can be ressurected once per game on a 2+ and placed in the front rank of any undead infantry unit on the board.
Vampire Powers:
Beguile. Re-roll wound rolls unless target makes Ld -3 roll.
Aura of Dark Majesty: -1 enemy leadership in 6" (cumulative)
Walking Death 25pts: +1 combat resolution.

Isabella

M6 WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W4 W2 I6 A2 Ld7

She is a level 1 Wizard.
Blood Chalice of Bathori: Heal wound at begining of your magic phase to either her of vampire in same unit.
Vampiric Powers:
Beguile. Reroll wound rolls unless target makes Ld -3 roll.
Beloved of Vlad. If vlad is in the army, isabella counts for double victory points but if killed Vlad is subject to frenzy and hatred.

JvK :happy:

And this was posted by NecroNurgle on Warseer. It is the complete Magic Items and Vampire Powers lists. I unfortunately have had to remove the points cost of the magic items as this is still the intellectual property of GW. :)

Magic Items.

Magic Weapons

Dreadlance: Lance, attacks automatically hit.

Vampire Powers

The Severed

Spectral Horror: Ethereal, can take no magic items.

The Martial

Red Fury: each wound dealt generates an extra attack, these extra attacks cannot generate extra attacks. cannot be combined with great weapon. (lances ok though!http://warseer.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)



Oh dear god, I can see dreadlance and Red fury being bandied around a lot!

And Spectral Horror? Dear me, my mouth dropped open when I read that! a vampire or count with that in a unit of cairn wraiths?!

I am however a little dissapointed that there are only 18 powers, theyre impressive, but there were what, 30 in the old book? this strikes me as less flexability than we had before, not more, and certainly not the ability to make any vampire combination we like as was originally suggested.

Thanks for the info man!

Some Q&A

I heard someone said zombie dargon have +1 WS and A but reduce 1 T, is that right? and what about the winged nightmate?
Double WS, but otherwise correct.
The abyssal terror is the new name for the winged nightmare statline.
The winged nightmare is called a hellsteed and is exactly a nightmare but with wings.

A question about the Vargulf:
Is the profile more like a Manticore or like Treeman ?
If you were to build an 6th ed strigoi vampire thrall, double its wounds, give it regen, hate, -1WS and +1A, it's basically the same. Fluffwise, the Vargulf ARE strigoi vampires!

What can you say about the corpse cart?
I was running two last night just to try them out. They're kind of strange (aside from the whole being-a-cart-of-animated-corpses thing) they aren't chariots, they act more like a big based monster. As cool as the models are, they aren't very combat effective, their main roll is acting as support. They have two options to choose from, one is the afore mentioned -1 to casting rolls with in 24", which is really great. Or the ability to add +1 to the number raised when casting invocation on a unit (not characters). Which is also pretty nice.

1.Is the "-1 to cast within 24" " upgrade for the corpse cart alot of points? And does it remove the ASF if you buy it?
2.Is the Black coach any good ?
3.Varghulf point cost (how many dire wolves ? )?
4.Any changes in dire wolves ?
1- no, the -1 on enemy casting do not remove it´s bound spell (ASF), upgrade cost around 6 zombies.
2- Better save and ward save, can gain abilitys like ethereal, killing blow and fly. Can´t regain wounds like when it kill things anymore.
3. About 200p - 4 zombies.
4. Dire wolves lose slavering charge (no +1 strenght on charge)

another question is about black coach, we know it can be "pumped" with power dice, but how exactly does it work? is there a range to do it?
At the start of every magic phase, both yours and the opponents, roll
all Power dices in the general pool. And also all personal power dices of
any wizard within 6 of the coach. The coach takes all dices that comes up "6".
This gives it powers from a list, starting with small things and
then rising. Any dice it takes is gone for that magic phase.
Even if you get all the powers it continues to steal dices.
There is no option about doing it, both players MUST roll their power dices.
If you got several coaches you still only roll the dices once and then you randomice who gets them.

Do they have the normal hero options to buy GW, Heavy Armor, Shields, Mounts, Barding?
Or do they have to buy magic equipment or use bloodline powers?
You have to buy them with bloodline powers.
Heavy armor +hand weapon & shield or Great Weapon or 2x hand weapon is one bloodline power.

There is a general rule which prohibits magic armour if you cant have the normal version. Is this rule explicitly cancelled in the book?
It specifically says all vampires may be given magic armor at the beginning of the magic armor section.

What about Wraith? How many banshee can I upgrade? The upgrade is free cost?
Cairn Wraiths have minimum size of three, but you can only have one banshee. It's half as expensive as a wraith to upgrade. The minimum wraith with banshee unit is the same cost as the vargulf.

It really seems UK is getting the best deal really. But does anyone know if the Vampire's themselves will be plastic, or metal with two different types (winged or not)? Oh, does that mean no Necrachs, i liked the idea of them. Or are Necrarchs different to Necromancers? sorry i am new to the Vampire Count army

I'm not sure there's been all that much info on what Vampire models we'll be getting. There's been plenty of pictures of the characters, but not of generic vampires. I know that semi-winged vampire was floating around a while back, but that's about the only one I've seen.

Nechrachs are (perhaps I should be using were) a sub-group of vampires. They have a greater grasp of magic than the other vampires, but aren't as good in combat.

Necromancers are generally not vampires, they're just people who have studied forbidden magic in an attempt to prolong their life. And they seem to like hanging around Vampires.

Fluff-wise the Vampire Bloodlines are still going to exist, I think. It's just up to individuals to use the bloodline powers to create their own vampire, so you can mach a vampire that's like a Nechrach if you so desire.

Finally some info on the lore of vampires!

POSTED BY KARRIG STERN on Warseer

yesterday i came accross the guy who wrote the rules for the new vampires and he gave me this in addition to some other little pieces of information.

firstly.

The Lore of the vampires

1 - raise dead 5+
2 - Vanhels danse macabre - 7+
3 - gaze of negash - 8+
4 - curse of years - 8+
5 - wind of undeath - 11+
6 - Raise legion - 12+

Raise dead. - 5+
raises D3+4 Zombies to any point within 12" of the caster, and not in combat.

Vanhels danse macabre. - 7+
unit may move 8", benefits from ASF and re-rolls all failed hits.

Gaze of negash. - 8+
Range 24" causes 2D6 str 4.

Curse of years. - 8+
remains in play, causes a wound on every model in the unit on a 6+ (roll for each) and every magic phase it lowers (5+ - 4+ and so on). (and no armour saves)

Wind of undeath. - 11+
All enemy units with 12" take a single woud on a 4+ (no armour savws)a spirit host swarm is crated with wounds equal to the number of wounds caused.

Raise legion. - 12+
Creates 5D6 zombies like raise dead spell.
OR
restores 3D6 wounds across any units in the army and it can be split down (2 wounds on skellies and two on the black coach for example)

In addition

Rare choices are

Black coach
Blood knights
The vargulf
Wraiths - skirmishing unit of 3 -10 terror cusing great weapon weilding etheral creatures with 3 attacks each at only ** points each and with 2 wounds each with a banshee champion for only ** points.

Nachtjager: Think I'm gonna be taking wraiths instead of KOTBK, particularly with the banshee getting better and cheaper! 15 attacks from a unit of 5, with etheral, thats gonna hurt as long as you keep spellcasters away from em!

Nachtjager: edit: needed to take out the points costs for the wraiths

Rare choices are
Black coach
Blood knights
The vargulf
Wraiths - skirmishing unit of 3 -10 terror cusing great weapon weilding etheral creatures with 3 attacks each at only ** points each and with 2 wounds each with a banshee champion for only ** points.

I guess it was to be expected, but why do they have to make all the good stuff rare? I don't get to take it all if they do that!

That said, I think I'm with you, Nachtjager. Those wraiths are sounding awesome.

And cheers for the info on the Magic Powers as well. Those last two spells sound kind of fun, but I'd imagine they'll be hell to try and cast. Just have to keep them in the back pocket for a special occasion, I guess.

Mwa Ha Ha!

I guess it was to be expected, but why do they have to make all the good stuff rare? I don't get to take it all if they do that!

That said, I think I'm with you, Nachtjager. Those wraiths are sounding awesome.

And cheers for the info on the Magic Powers as well. Those last two spells sound kind of fun, but I'd imagine they'll be hell to try and cast. Just have to keep them in the back pocket for a special occasion, I guess.

Mwa Ha Ha!

Yeah, I think most opponents will always be holding back a dispel scroll or 2 for the whole game in case of raise undead horde popping up! That could be a game winner.

Finally some info on the lore of vampires!

POSTED BY KARRIG STERN on Warseer

yesterday i came accross the guy who wrote the rules for the new vampires and he gave me this in addition to some other little pieces of information.

firstly.

The Lore of the vampires

1 - raise dead 5+
2 - Vanhels danse macabre - 7+
3 - gaze of negash - 8+
4 - curse of years - 8+
5 - wind of undeath - 11+
6 - Raise legion - 12+

Raise dead. - 5+
raises D3+4 Zombies to any point within 12" of the caster, and not in combat.

Vanhels danse macabre. - 7+
unit may move 8", benefits from ASF and re-rolls all failed hits.

Gaze of negash. - 8+
Range 24" causes 2D6 str 4.

Curse of years. - 8+
remains in play, causes a wound on every model in the unit on a 6+ (roll for each) and every magic phase it lowers (5+ - 4+ and so on). (and no armour saves)

Wind of undeath. - 11+
All enemy units with 12" take a single woud on a 4+ (no armour savws)a spirit host swarm is crated with wounds equal to the number of wounds caused.

Raise legion. - 12+
Creates 5D6 zombies like raise dead spell.
OR
restores 3D6 wounds across any units in the army and it can be split down (2 wounds on skellies and two on the black coach for example)

In addition

Rare choices are

Black coach
Blood knights
The vargulf
Wraiths - skirmishing unit of 3 -10 terror cusing great weapon weilding etheral creatures with 3 attacks each at only ** points each and with 2 wounds each with a banshee champion for only ** points.

Nachtjager: Think I'm gonna be taking wraiths instead of KOTBK, particularly with the banshee getting better and cheaper! 15 attacks from a unit of 5, with etheral, thats gonna hurt as long as you keep spellcasters away from em!

Nachtjager: edit: needed to take out the points costs for the wraiths

Raise Dead: Can also raise one single wound on a vampire or non infantry unit

Vanhels danse macabre: Does one or the other, not both at the same time. If the unit isn't in combat, then it can move, if it is it gets ASF and hatred.

Raise legion: A vampire unit can only ever have one wound raised to it. So from this spell you could only raise one Blood Knight back for example and one wound on the Black Coach.

Will Adams