The veteran group is now the new enhanced group. What happend is that we have removed the enhanced group and it will no longer possible to join the enhanced group or the veteran group. If you want bigger avatars, custom user titles and more special features you will have to subscribe from $4.00 per month

You can subscribe here
http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/payments.php

Subscriper Options

Post / Thread Permissions
Can Move Own Threads

Private Message Permissions
Maximum Recipients to Send PMs at a time (5/1)

Who's Online Permissions
Can View Detailed Location Info for Users

General Permissions
Can Set Self to Invisible Mode
Can 'See' Users Who Have Chosen to be Invisible While Online

Picture Uploading Permissions
Profile Picture Maximum File Size (2048/1024)
Custom Avatar Size (128px/96px)
Can Upload Larger Signature Picture (500x100/468x60)

Signature Permissions
Maximum Characters in Signature Including BBCode Markup (600/300)
Maximum Characters in Signature Excluding BBCode Markup (300/150)
Allow Smilies

User Reputation Permissions
Can Hide Reputation from Others
Can Leave Negative Reputation

Usergroup Options
Viewable on Show Groups


(subscriber value / normal user value)

Thanks for reading

What about links in signatures. Am I able to activate those with subscription?

links in signatures is an option for all groups as long as they are following our rules regarding signatures, but with the subscriber package you can upload your own pictures for use in the signature

I will put together a list of what options you get with the subscriber group

I'm not sure what's happened, but this change seems to have caused a small glitch in my account....
I can't post to any thread (except, for some unknown reason, this one), and every time I try to, I get a message saying:
mpdscott, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

This is kinda frustrating, as you might have guessed. Especially when trying to post a link to my Painting Contest Entry...

It seems that there is, indeed, a slight glitch in the Veteran group. Several members that I've spoken with on LO Chat don't seem to be able to post on LO at all. Mind getting this fixed, Blackhat? :)

edit: Also, it seems that in some people's signatures, tags like bold and URL's have been messed up a bit.

I'm not sure what's happened, but this change seems to have caused a small glitch in my account....
I can't post to any thread (except, for some unknown reason, this one), and every time I try to, I get a message saying:

This is kinda frustrating, as you might have guessed. Especially when trying to post a link to my Painting Contest Entry...
im getting this same message.

also these things:

my avatar isnt showing up.
my user cp is all wonky tell me ive just made posts that i actually made several weeks ago
i cant see any of my pms.


also, we have to pay for custom titles? im hearing that if you had one before it will become your title and to change it again you gotta subscribe. i was enhanced before today and i never knew about this, and if i had i would have made a custom title as its the only enhanced benefit i would have been interested in. Am i just shafted now?

Sounds fine to me Blackhat.

Hopefully you can get any glitches others have mentioned worked out!

brush

Previously enhanced members lose their custom titles, unless they are subscribers.

Customs titles should only be for subscribers anyway.

Links, bold, italics etc are not currently working in signatures, btw.

I am too unable to post, except for in this thread i have just discovered.

Should be fixed now

Well a fair amount of all this actually feels like a bummer rather than anything good.

In order for me to keep my member title, one of the few things the veteran group offers that I have any care for, I have to pay a monthly fee for something I previously had to earn to begin with. Some of the parts having to do with rep are pretty bad as well; unless I pay to be a veteran member, I am no longer able to tell who repped me and can no longer thank them for it? (Though if its neg rep, then the possible members that can give that out is much smaller.)

Can't forget one of the biggest insults this brings about, the fact that anyone can subscribe and pay and get the title of veteran now. You could be a member for less than a day, with zero posts, having contributed nothing to speak of, but if you pay the monthly fee than your a veteran whereas someone who has been active for months or years, has contributed to the community as a whole, has to pay this same fee to get the title someone else gets without having to earn it.

Can't forget one of the biggest insults this brings about, the fact that anyone can subscribe and pay and get the title of veteran now. You could be a member for less than a day, with zero posts, having contributed nothing to speak of, but if you pay the monthly fee than your a veteran whereas someone who has been active for months or years, has contributed to the community as a whole, has to pay this same fee to get the title someone else gets without having to earn it.

A moot point, reever. Even with the Enhanced group, if a member subscribed then he or she would still get the same benefits. I'm pretty sure that as a subscriber you get the same benefits but not necessarily the title. Keep that in mind.

My apologies about the misunderstanding as to anyone being able to become a 'veteran.' I misread the difference between subscribing and some members being given the veteran group title. (I thought the two had been rolled into one and subscribing gave you the title.)

Well a fair amount of all this actually feels like a bummer rather than anything good.

In order for me to keep my member title, one of the few things the veteran group offers that I have any care for, I have to pay a monthly fee for something I previously had to earn to begin with. Some of the parts having to do with rep are pretty bad as well; unless I pay to be a veteran member, I am no longer able to tell who repped me and can no longer thank them for it? (Though if its neg rep, then the possible members that can give that out is much smaller.)

Can't forget one of the biggest insults this brings about, the fact that anyone can subscribe and pay and get the title of veteran now. You could be a member for less than a day, with zero posts, having contributed nothing to speak of, but if you pay the monthly fee than your a veteran whereas someone who has been active for months or years, has contributed to the community as a whole, has to pay this same fee to get the title someone else gets without having to earn it.

Agreee with you 100%.

Paying for a tiny slice of text under my Avatar sounds silly, and is extreemely annoying. Perhaps the days of surfing LO for fun are numbred, coz I cant look cool doing it!

Tim

I disagree. Custom titles should only be a subscriber thing.

Showing off little stars is enough for those with a lot of worthy posts.

I disagree. Custom titles should only be a subscriber thing.

Showing off little stars is enough for those with a lot of worthy posts.


That being the case, I can go to ANY other forum site, and be treated exactly the same.

i came here, coz I was treated differently. Now, thats not the case

Tim

LO has a chat room.

Why not go to all the forums.

Im going to have to agree with darkreever, when i was given the enhanced status it was great, i felt kind of accepted into mainstream LO.

But now paying for a title that was earned before just seems palpably wrong on so many levels. Thats my 2 cents on the matter..

And like what Tim said maybe surfing LO for fun is numbered.

LO has a chat room.

Why not go to all the forums.

Uh, I seem to be missing your point :?

Lo isn;t the only chat room on the net.

And why not? There is no linger any reason not to any more (Ive mentioned why already). I did post elsewhere, but only for anrmy lists, usually, where I was after as much feedback as possible, but thats it.

Uhh...and now I cant edit my posts.....do I need to pay for that, too?

Looks like Ill just have to use the Sig for now...while it's free

You cannot edit posts in the general announcement forum.

Subscribers might be able to...

yeah, funny that. At least Id get my money's worth

I can edit the privileges so you can have custom titles etc, but there are no more any elite group at LO. Thats because everyone should feel accepted here no matter how long and/or how many posts they have made

I can find other ways for the subscribers like Arklite mentioned, contests for subscribers only. Monthly lottery where they can win stuff. What do you think about that ?

Ok, I added this for common users now


can delete tags on own threads (Y)
Can Upload Attachments (Y)

Can Use Custom Title (Y)
Can Upload Animated Avatar (Y) 96x96 6144
Can Upload Animated GIF for Signature (Y)
Maximum Lines in Signature 5
Can See Who Left User Ratings (Y)
Can Delete Own Visitor Messages (Y)

Can Edit Own Social Groups (Y)
Can Delete Own Social Groups (Y)

Can Remove Own Blog Entries (Y)

Can Delete Own Comments (Y)


, but please dont think that whining helps :)

Thanks, for that, Blackhat. Custom User Titles make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :)

The only problem I can see is that the Veteran bar covers up most of any other bar you have underneath it, so you can't see what that bar is. I think that happens on the moderator bars too.

I think the new system is fine. Veteran title should just be a sign of respect. You should only get special goodies if you subscribe. I think the new system is great, and I think Blackhat has done an excellent job at running this site.

brush

Thanks, for that, Blackhat. Custom User Titles make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :)

The only problem I can see is that the Veteran bar covers up most of any other bar you have underneath it, so you can't see what that bar is. I think that happens on the moderator bars too.

That only really applies when the badge below it is too long. In your case, LO Magazine is slightly too long, so the L gets cut off. In Blackhat's case, you can see the "Artist" fine. Not really sure how to get that fixed besides joining another group.

In order for me to keep my member title, one of the few things the veteran group offers that I have any care for, I have to pay a monthly fee...

Can't forget one of the biggest insults this brings about, the fact that anyone can subscribe and pay and get the title of veteran now. You could be a member for less than a day, with zero posts, having contributed nothing to speak of, but if you pay the monthly fee than your a veteran whereas someone who has been active for months or years, has contributed to the community as a whole, has to pay this same fee to get the title someone else gets without having to earn it.

Just a quick recap: As Blackhat said, you get to retain your current custom title; however, in order to make changes in your title, you need to be a subscriber. Also, a subscriber doesn't get you the vet badge, he/she gets the subscriber badge. We're still discussing the new change, so let's keep this in mind ;).

It's also important to bear in mind that LO does actually have expenses. We're trying to find ways of covering them, while at the same time, maintaining the general ambiance of the forums.



Paying for a tiny slice of text under my Avatar sounds silly, and is extremely annoying. Perhaps the days of surfing LO for fun are numbred, coz I cant look cool doing it!
Tim

Personally, I'm a subscriber, because it helps fund the site. The new benefits are just a way to reward members, who help maintain the cost. :)

That only really applies when the badge below it is too long. In your case, LO Magazine is slightly too long, so the L gets cut off. In Blackhat's case, you can see the "Artist" fine. Not really sure how to get that fixed besides joining another group.

That's odd- I can't see the badge at all, mine or Blackhat's, just the very bottom of the coloured bar. Maybe I should upgrade my old Internet Explorer or something - I'm still on 6 because I didn't particularly like 7 when it came out.

For example, from my earlier post:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii5/Owl_Stretching_Time/overlap.jpg

The LO mag banner is certainly there. The L is a bit obscured, admittedly.

(Firefox ftw)

That's odd- I can't see the badge at all, mine or Blackhat's, just the very bottom of the coloured bar. Maybe I should upgrade my old Internet Explorer or something - I'm still on 6 because I didn't particularly like 7 when it came out.

For example, from my earlier post:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii5/Owl_Stretching_Time/overlap.jpg

Download Mozilla. 99% of the time, I don't have the problems other people do (who use IE).

Just a quick recap: As Blackhat said, you get to retain your current custom title; however, in order to make changes in your title, you need to be a subscriber. Also, a subscriber doesn't get you the vet badge, he/she gets the subscriber badge. We're still discussing the new change, so let's keep this in mind ;).

Again, I had thought that subscribers and veterans were being rolled into one group; I already apologized for that, since the two are separate and what I said in my first post was when I did not know that was the case.

Great idea, liking it so far, but one quick question why is the 12 month subscription to Lo cost more than 12 months paying each month?

EDIT - Also is paypal the only way to pay it?

Great idea, liking it so far, but one quick question why is the 12 month subscription to Lo cost more than 12 months paying each month?

EDIT - Also is paypal the only way to pay it?

its $1.95 more and you get a free tshirt worth around $20.00

Woops, forgot about the t-shirt, but is there any other way to pay for it?

All our stuff are here

http://www.librarium-online.com/about/shop/

First off, I owe everyone an apology.

This was my idea, and I was going to make an announcement about it last night, but didn't get a chance. The actual changes weren't supposed to take effect for another week, to allow people to get used to the idea and make their final user title changes, etc.

However - this is not the first time we've mentioned it. Here - http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/site-feedback-support/114206-enhanced.html - David made mention of our early plans, and nobody gave it a second thought or comment. While I realize not many people hang out in Site Feedback unless they have a specific reason, it's not like we were trying to hide this change from everyone.

Here's my reasoning behind why we wanted to make this switch. Enhanced has a stigma behind it that needs to be dropped. Ever since we closed down the Enhanced subforum, the question has been brought up multiple times - "What's the point of Enhanced?" And really, when you looked hard and long at it, the answer would always come back the same. "There isn't one anymore."

It basically became a badge of honour that everyone was capable of receiving with minimal effort, and the longer it was around, the less meaning it really had.

So, I came up with an idea to make it worth something again. If nobody can earn it anymore, then it becomes coveted. As the forum goes on, people will come and go, but the Veteran Badge is testament that you were here during your early days of LO. You were around when LO was still just a baby. You were one of the originals.

That's something worth showing off, don't you think?

On top of this, moderators no longer have to worry about the reputation system. Since Enhanced status was basically just a matter of amassing a certain amount of reputation, doing away with Enhanced means that reputation really doesn't have set value to it anymore. Having a high reputation value doesn't net you any perks anymore - it's simply a status symbol to say "Hey, I'm pretty well liked." This means that cases of rep abuse are easier to handle, and less work on the Moderator team.

The loss of Custom Titles and bigger avatars is a touchy point; I'll admit. The reasoning here was that we are trying to push the perks to being a Subscriber. As it is, most of the perks of being a Subscriber match up exactly to being Enhanced. Basically, once you hit Enhanced, there wasn't a proper reason to donate to LO, other than the great feeling you get. While I agree that is a good reason in of itself, it doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. Why should people pay for something they already get for free?

That being said, I'm happy with Blackhat's decision to give everyone the ability to set their titles. After all, it's the community that we try to satisfy, and we just want everyone to feel happy and at home here.

We'll try to find some other perks to give to subscribers as well. We're always trying to improve upon that.

If anyone has any questions or comments, as always, please feel free to post.

Sounds good Cal. I especially like the change as I think that it will encourage more people to subscribe and it also officially ends the enhanced experiment that seems to have failed. I think that people who are whining about their user title and the badge need to take a step back and think for a second. This is a forum. You shouldn't stick around for a 100 x 20 block of pixels if that's the only reason you like it IMO.

One problem though, I don't seem to be a veteran? Is is showing for other people, cause I know I've been around longer than a lot of the vets I see (like Cal :P), I have more rep and more posts than say, pickle and was enhanced before.

One problem though, I don't seem to be a veteran? Is is showing for other people, cause I know I've been around longer than a lot of the vets I see (like Cal :P), I have more rep and more posts than say, pickle and was enhanced before.

Because your Primary Usergroup was set to "Users awaiting e-mail confirmation", you weren't part of the transition. I'm not sure why, nor how long you've actually been set to that.

I've fixed that now.

(If anyone else notices they weren't transitioned and should have been, please, please, please speak up. Preferably sooner rather than later.

All of us moderators got left out! ;o

Thanks for the explanation, Cal. That clears quite a few things up.

All of us moderators got left out! ;o

Yeah, well you're moderators. You don't count. ;)

Please don't hurt me...0:

Because your Primary Usergroup was set to "Users awaiting e-mail confirmation", you weren't part of the transition. I'm not sure why, nor how long you've actually been set to that.

I've fixed that now.

(If anyone else notices they weren't transitioned and should have been, please, please, please speak up. Preferably sooner rather than later.

Thanks Cal. No idea what that setting is. I guess I'll have to check it out, but it appears that I'm working now, so thanks.

It's always strange, yet entertaining when things change here:)

As for the pros of being subscriber...well I think we all do it pretty much for the same reason, it's all about that nice warm feeling. It's of course nice if we get some extra stuff but far from necessary (IMO), the little yellow sign covers it just fine.

to compare regular users with subscribers, please check here
http://www.librarium-online.com/about/subscriber/

I'm confused. Why not allow normal users to neg-rep others? Surely the whole point of the reputation system is that it is equal in that regard.

fair enough.

In the beginning we wouldnt let new members neg-rep, but now as the enhanced is gone I guess we can make that an option for everyone

you could also consider some of these for incentitives for people to subscribe:

-for a 12 month subscription allow them an advertising space for a month, more or less

-contests as you have already mentioned, for example, subscribers being able to enter into contests and drawings, etc.

-offer 2+/- temperary stickies. on pbnation they are called "gold ups". basically it's like any other sticky: it keeps your thread at the top so more people see it, but only for a temperary time period (for example 7 days)

-a "get out of jail free card" type of thing, where basically you have 1 chance to unban yourself if you get banned.

brush

Also another one for subscribers:

-store discounts

-a "get out of jail free card" type of thing, where basically you have 1 chance to unban yourself if you get banned.


I don't think any amount of money is worth giving a member that sort of chance. If you get temporarily banned, you need to serve that whole time. If you are perma-banned, you could give me $1000 and I wouldn't unban you.

but the other ideas is good, we just need someway to keep an record on all this

Good idea on the veterans group Blackhat.:happy:

I like the idea of some advertising space for 12 month subscriptions. It gives a way of other webmasters to support their own site as well as LO :)

Ever since I (Eventually) achieved Enhanced status, I felt that I really belonged to the community, several months later, it's all gone to waste :(.

This new Veteran system allows newbies to becomes Veterans by subscription? That is like, giving a 3-year old kid a Degree out of a magician's hat; Kind of unfair isn't it?

I don't know at this moment, maybe a little piece of me was torn out when the Enhanced system got flushed. Hey, at least it's just my Avatar Title that got snipped, I'm alright with that :)


-Kai-Itza-

Ever since I (Eventually) achieved Enhanced status, I felt that I really belonged to the community, several months later, it's all gone to waste :(.

This new Veteran system allows newbies to becomes Veterans by subscription? That is like, giving a 3-year old kid a Degree out of a magician's hat; Kind of unfair isn't it?

I don't know at this moment, maybe a little piece of me was torn out when the Enhanced system got flushed. Hey, at least it's just my Avatar Title that got snipped, I'm alright with that :)


-Kai-Itza-

You can't become a veteran by subscription. In fact at the moment there is no way to become a veteran at all, the only way was to have been enhanced before the enhanced group was changed to the veterans group.

If you subscribe, it's just the same as it was before - you get a yellow bar on your profile with a pineapple on it if I remember correctly, and some other perks because you are paying. It still doesn't make you a veteran though.

I think its a good idea- I like the fact my previous enhanced status has been rewarded with a 'veteran' badge- and that its an elite group that noone else can join! but I do agree that it shouldnt come with any particular privileges, whereas if you are a subscriber you are helping keep LO running financially, and that should be rewarded somehow- which reminds me I really need to sort out a subscription at some point!

Ever since I (Eventually) achieved Enhanced status, I felt that I really belonged to the community, several months later, it's all gone to waste :(.

This new Veteran system allows newbies to becomes Veterans by subscription? That is like, giving a 3-year old kid a Degree out of a magician's hat; Kind of unfair isn't it?

I don't know at this moment, maybe a little piece of me was torn out when the Enhanced system got flushed. Hey, at least it's just my Avatar Title that got snipped, I'm alright with that :)


-Kai-Itza-

As Ancalagon said, nobody but former Enhanced members get the Veteran tag. If you read through the entire thread, this is made clear. You also get to keep custom user titles, so there's no loss there.

FWIW, I approve entirely. 8Y I will always miss the enhanced forum (probably in the minority there), but having a little tag to remind us all of "back in the day"... nice touch.

As always, nice job on the site, BH & Co. Keep it up!

I can see where the changes are coming from. As long as I get to keep my custom user title, I'm fine.

Though I always liked the little crown. Call me elitist if you want. What can I say, it's great to be the king (no offense to Ulrik, of course).

I may set up a subscription someday, but some of us are actually that strapped for cash... I am a college student who plays a ridiculously expensive tabletop wargame and has a WoW subscription, after all... think about it.

I may set up a subscription someday, but some of us are actually that strapped for cash... I am a college student who plays a ridiculously expensive tabletop wargame and has a WoW subscription, after all... think about it.


Write an tutorial with pics for one of the categories on the frontpage (http://www.librarium-online.com) and we give you 1 month subscription :)

That goes for everyone out there... :drinking:

If you read through the entire thread, this is made clear.


Trouble is, that I did read through the whole thread beforehand, probably missed the Customisable Avatar Name (several times!) being unchanged whilst reading though it.

Teaches me to whizz through the threads lol!


You also get to keep custom user titles, so there's no loss there.

Yeah, I had to search through my User CP, I don't know if it had been moved or not, but I couldn't find it at the time of reading this thread. It was some time after, where I found it.

Sorry guys for doubting you ;Y.

I approve on this subscription purely because of the survival of these forums as well as the community, I may be tempted to join eventually.

Keep up the good work!


-Kai-Itza-

I think we you should just raise the bar for enhanced status, but this isn't a democracy. At the end of things, Blackhat is the landlord.

...and how will you become a veteran now?

*Sorry for not including this in my previous post*

The only 'power' those who are not Admin, Mods-whoops, Blackhat first , Admin or Mods is whether or not to come to LO. If you feel that passionately about this, why not 'strike?'

Will their be a Veterans' discussion?

And to clarify, the 'you' in the last sentence of my earlier post was 'you' as in the average member.

Attila

For now there is no established way to get Veteran status. Veterans do not receive any privileges over the common member; they only get the Veteran tag. All it represents is that those members have been around since the Enhanced group. All former Enhanced members are now Veterans, and many of the Enhanced privileges have been given to all members.

The problem has always been that with the Enhanced group, there has always been an implied sort of 'elitism' and that if you have the Enhanced tag, you tend to be 'right' while others without it tend to be 'wrong.' There was also the issue of unbalanced requirements - if we upped the requirements, what about all the members that got in with the lower requirements?

At this point in time, there will be no Veteran discussion forum. The Veteran tag is just that; a tag. If you want additional benefits, you're going to have to subscribe. :)

Also, Attila, there is an "edit post" function, so you could have just edited your post to include the second bit. I'll merge the posts for you, though.

edit: By the way, for those who still aren't sure, you can edit your custom user title by going to User CP >> Edit Details and scrolling down a bit.

Will their be a Veterans' discussion?



No, and there probably never will be. There are a number of reasons for this. First, the previous enhanced forum turned into a jumble of gossip and non-productive posts. Second, having a forum that only permits access to members with the veteran badge, when the veteran badge is not an option for new members, invites obvious complications of extreme elitism. Third (my personal take), there really isn't a purpose of having an enhanced or veteran forum, since the general hobby and non-hobby related forums would cover all the same thread topics.

The problem has always been that with the Enhanced group, there has always been an implied sort of 'elitism' and that if you have the Enhanced tag, you tend to be 'right' while others without it tend to be 'wrong.' There was also the issue of unbalanced requirements - if we upped the requirements, what about all the members that got in with the lower requirements?

I don't quite see your point. The 'right/wrong' issue is still going to be relevant, as all that has changed is the name of the 'elite' group.

Attila

I don't quite see your point. The 'right/wrong' issue is still going to be relevant, as all that has changed is the name of the 'elite' group.

Don't forget Attila, you could eventually earn your way to the title of enhanced; only members up to a certain point will be able to have the veteran tag, and there is currently no way for anyone else to get the tag.

Don't forget Attila, you could eventually earn your way to the title of enhanced; only members up to a certain point will be able to have the veteran tag, and there is currently no way for anyone else to get the tag.

...but my point still stands.

...but my point still stands.

No, it doesn't, actually. The Veteran tag is simply that - a tag. It labels people who were here when Enhanced was around. It does not mean necessarily that they have more rep than other users, nor does it mean they are 'better' in any way. It's not an elite group, it's simply those members who've been around LO during the changing days.

If people perceive it as an "elite" group, they are perceiving is incorrectly, as they have 100% of the privileges that Veterans do.

Ive lost my title "On an Excellent Adventure". Im confused as other Vets got to keep theirs :(

Ive lost my title "On an Excellent Adventure". Im confused as other Vets got to keep theirs :(

Because we lost ours and then changed them back into the custom ones. It is under edit your details under your User CP.

If people perceive it as an "elite" group, they are perceiving is incorrectly, as they have 100% of the privileges that Veterans do.

Personally, if I was a newbie I would take the tag as an elitist sign. It doesn't matter about the priveledges, it matters how they view the tag; in this case, perhaps, like a seargants' stripes. The tag is a sign of superiority. That's how I thought when I joined, and I didn't know the enhanced got any priveledges.

Veteran is someone who has been involved in something a long time, and consistantly. If it were an elite group, then it would be called ''elite'', but there is no real way to structure that fairly so really no group should be perceived as elite.