Dwarf Lord
master rune of swiftness
Rune of cleaving
Rune of cleaving
Shield
Shield bearers
Master rune of challenge
263 points

Thane
BSB
stollaz rune
Rune of guarding
175 points

runesmith
Shield
Rune of stone
Master rune of balance
127

runesmith
Shield
Rune of stone
Spell breaker rune
102

Core

Dwarf warriors [24]
Full command
Shields
241 points


Dwarf warriors [24]
Full command
Shields
241 points

Long beards [19]
Full command
Great weapons
Shields
Master rune of grungi
341 points

Quarrelers [10]
Shields
Great weapons
140 points

Special

Hammerers [18]
Full command
Shields
264 points

grudge thrower
rune of accuracy
Rune of fire
110 points

Cannon
Rune of forging
125 points

rare

organ gun


I’m taking part in storm over Stirling this year so I’ve started to put my list together. I’ve got about 6 weeks to conceive and play test this army so opinions are welcome as are ideas. I do have one condition however, I’m doing this MY way >=]

While I could very well play a gunline with a solid chance of winning I don't think it would achieve much for my soul when I go to gamers paradise so its a marching dwarf army for me. Never know... I might just catch people off guard ;).

Yeah, to the four winds with your soul: go Gunline! with Thorek!

I take it the Lord will be deployed with the Hammerers, the BSB with the Longbeards and the Warriors each get a Runesmith?

A couple of thoughts I have (and these aren't "WTF, j00r r-me is teh suk!!!11eleven" thoughts, just things that stick out in my mind.)

I like your artillery choices. You have a nice balance of popping big nasties and numerous gribblies.

I like the 'Beards' Strollaz & Grungni combo. Could a Rune of Battle be squeezed in there somewhere?

While I like the idea of using the Quarrellers as a counter-charge unit, I think they lose points-efficiency by wearing two hats. Four angry Dwarf blocks shouldn't benefit that much from one group of ten Dwarfs. Couldn't they just as easily be Thunderers and take advantage of the harder punch that the handgun offers?

Neither do the Warriors need Veterans. I think Standards and Musicians are sufficient.

Your Lords and Heroes seem fine. I've never seen a loadout like that on a Lord, but I'm interested to see how it playtests. It seems like an expensive attempt to get an Always-strikes-first Great Weapon. Personally, I always go for more attacks first, then ensuring they hit home. More dice mean more hits, after all.

By all means, let us know how this works. :)

A nice list arklite, I have just a few thoughts on it.

1. As much as I champion the use of Quarrellers with GW's, I think you could revamp this unit a bit. Shields and GW's are usefull for two different things and in the case of your army I think shields will be of more use...you've already got plenty of CC goodness. So I'd say drop the GW's....or maybe revamp this unit into a small squad of Warrior Rangers with throwing axes....could be a very fun and interesting unit to have on the board in a tourney.

2. Since its obvious your whole army is going to be running down the board have you considered trading out that organ gun for a gyrocopter? I imagen with all the units you have by turn two they are going to be blocking a lot of the organ guns LOS...but a Gyrocopter can outpace your army...be used for march blocking, war machine hunting and rear charging. It would add even more speed and flexibility to your list.

I think just those two changes would really streamline your list and give it a flexibility and flavor that many of your opponents wont expect to see from dwarfs.

Happy hunting!

Dwarf Lord
master rune of swiftness
Rune of cleaving
Rune of cleaving
Shield
Shield bearers
Master rune of challenge
263 points

Thane
BSB
stollaz rune
Rune of guarding
175 points

runesmith
Shield
Rune of stone
Master rune of balance
127

runesmith
Shield
Rune of stone
Spell breaker rune
102

Core

Dwarf warriors [24]
Musician
Standard
Shields
231 points


Dwarf warriors [24]
Musician
Standard
Shields
231 points

Long beards [19]
Full command
Great weapons
Shields
Master rune of grungi
341 points

Quarrelers [10]
Shields
120 points

Special

Hammerers [18]
Full command
Shields
264 points

grudge thrower
rune of accuracy
Rune of penetrating
130 points

Cannon
Rune of forging
125 points

rare

gyrocopter


suggestions taken into account. with an idea of my own thrown in.

the reasoning behind the dwarf lords rune weapon was to allow me to gank the enemy front rank as they charge then let me use the hammerers great weapons to cause even more carnage. it is of course an idea and as i'm still in the playtesting stage it may be subject to change. any other ideas are welcome of course (though i'd rather stay under budget ;) )

i stuck a rune of penetrating onto the grudge thrower to compensate for the loss of the organ gun as far as ranged punch goes. the idea being that it would maul T3 troops and become pretty darn nasty against T4 troops (which an unupgraded GT looses some of its potential.

the gyro was a pretty darn good idea and allows me to turn the game on its head. how do you make dwarves even faster? make the enemy slower! :D

Dwarf Lord
master rune of swiftness
Rune of cleaving
Rune of cleaving
Shield
Shield bearers
Master rune of challenge
263 points
I have used Left of West's (most commonly found on the Tau forum I believe) probability calculating spread sheet to compair your runic weapon with one with a rune of fury swapped for one of the cleavings (note: I am compairing the average kills). Here where the results (red is a win, green a tie, blue a loss)

2xcleaving
Armour t3 t4
0 2.22 2.22
6 2.22 2.22
5 2.22 2.22
4 2.22 2.22
3 1.85 1.85
2 1.48 1.48

cleaving, fury
Armour t3 t4
0 2.78 2.22
6 2.78 2.22
5 2.78 2.22
4 2.31 1.85
3 1.85 1.48
2 1.39 1.11

As can be seen though the results your combo wins when against T4 enemies with 4+ or better armour and against 2+ save T3 enemies. The rune of fury/cleaving combo is better against T3 with 4+ save or worse. You can decide which is better (I am leaning toward the cleaver, fury combo as T3 is more common then T4 and bad saves are more common then good saves).

Thane
BSB
stollaz rune
Rune of guarding
175 pointsIf it where me I would drop Ro Guarding. After the 'extra movement before game' phase he is almost completely useless (yes he can give rerolls but they are not worth 30 points to protect).

runesmith
Shield
Rune of stone
Master rune of balance
127No Great Weapon?

runesmith
Shield
Rune of stone
Spell breaker rune
102Two Runesmiths? Merge them together I suggest (dropping the Ro Stone).

Dwarf warriors [24]
Musician
Standard
Shields
231 points

Dwarf warriors [24]
Musician
Standard
Shields
231 points:party:

Long beards [19]
Full command
Great weapons
Shields
Master rune of grungi
341 points:party:

Quarrelers [10]
Shields
120 pointsWhat will you be using these guys for exactly (I'm not saying you should drop them but mearly assign them a purpose).

Hammerers [18]
Full command
Shields
264 pointsMabye add a runic standard.

grudge thrower
rune of accuracy
Rune of penetrating
130 points:party::party::party:

Cannon
Rune of forging
125 pointsWhats your reasoning on getting a cannon rather then a bolt thrower or two.

Gyrocopter:party:

the reasoning behind the dwarf lords rune weapon was to allow me to gank the enemy front rank as they charge then let me use the hammerers great weapons to cause even more carnage. it is of course an idea and as i'm still in the playtesting stage it may be subject to change. any other ideas are welcome of course (though i'd rather stay under budget ;) )Under buget is the only way to play a non magical lord in all armies. The 'blunting' Lord is very effective, it will be hard for any unit to win to the front as they can't get more then a hand full of attacks.

i stuck a rune of penetrating onto the grudge thrower to compensate for the loss of the organ gun as far as ranged punch goes. the idea being that it would maul T3 troops and become pretty darn nasty against T4 troops (which an unupgraded GT looses some of its potential.I love S5 and 5/9 hit rate rune inscripted rock accelerators, I am sure you will soon love them too.

Dwarf Lord
master rune of swiftness
Rune of cleaving
rune of fury
Shield
Shield bearers
Master rune of challenge
268 points

Thane
BSB
stollaz rune
145 points

runesmith
Great weapon
Shield
Master rune of balance
Rune of spellbreaking
156 points

Master engineer
Rune of stone
Great weapon
79 points

Core

Dwarf warriors [24]
Musician
Standard
Shields
231 points

Dwarf warriors [20]
Musician
Standard
Shields
195 points

Long beards [19]
Full command
Great weapons
Shields
Master rune of grungi
341 points

Special

Hammerers [18]
Full command
Shields
264 points

grudge thrower
rune of accuracy
Rune of penetrating
Rune of fire
135 points

Bolt thrower
rune of penetrating
rune of fire
Engineer
90

Bolt thrower
Rune of penetrating
engineer
85

rare

organ gun

gyrocopter


Changes made... and I must say this list gets more evil every time I change it. the quarrelers have been dropped in favour of an organ gun as I felt that I couldn't achieve much with them. I added the master engineer in an attempt to boost the firepower of my small cadre of warmachines things... kind of escalated after that.

When I found I had ended up with a unit of 24 warriors and no character to add to them I decided to drop them down to 20 strong and shift the points elsewhere in the list.

This ended up falling into the warmachines and as a result 2 S7 Bt's turned up and the grudge thrower started throwing huge fiery rocks around the table. This from what I can see isn't a bad thing. I’ve managed to maintain the overall fighting power of the dwarf battle line (though one unit has been weakened) and gained a significant boost in outward firepower.

Opinions?

I don't think you need engineers in both the bolt throwers as the Master Engineer should be put in one.

Also you list is gaining alot more warmachines now detracting from the aggressive part of the army (well, not really detract, but increase the chance that sitting back and shooting will be the best option in a game which defeats the armies purpose). I you want to keep the armies funness rather then its killyness conside swaping some warmachines for Miners, Iron Breakers, and extra Thane or more Longbeards (and I mean CONSIDER, I notice you have gone with every piece of advise so far which is not necissarily a good thing).

WOOT 500th post! :drinking:

I don't think you need engineers in both the bolt throwers as the Master Engineer should be put in one.


I disagree. The Master Engineer, if you have one, should get put with the GT. Combined with the rune of accuracy, you get to reroll both misfire AND scatter, which is huge and makes the GT more reliable.

I do agree with Krox, though, that the list is straying a bit from the 'marching' force originally envisioned. While not necessarily a bad thing, or a bad list, you need to decide what exactly you want. Perhaps consider dropping a BT plus your larger warriors down to 20 and add in another unit of warriors or miners. Or, perhaps just drop a BT and upgrade the smaller warrior group to longbeards or add more warriors? One of the advantages of having a Lord is getting that extra Longbeard unit, and I hate wasting advantages that you've 'paid for'.

Personally, if you really want a 'marching' dwarf force, I'd try to squeeze in a 5th infantry unit, even if it is only 15-strong (or miners, or slayers)

excellent advice all round, and i must admit i have been drifting from the origonal concept. the idea of a 5th unit is rather apealing and has several benifits worth looking into. i'll play around with ideas and post something later tonight.

I'm going to counter one bit of advice you have been given. Bring back that second runesmith. At tourney level play at this points level you are going to be facing some magic heavy lists. That extra dispell dice can make all the difference in the world against some armies. Plus it spreads out your spell protection...what if your only runesmiths unit gets wiped off the board...then you got a fat lot of nothing. A runesmith is never a waste of points if your give them a great weapon and park them in a large block of troops. You've got plent of ranged and CC goodness from elsewhere...what this list really needs is a soild anti-magic backing.

I would also agree that this list is getting a bit unfocused. Think of all those blocks of troops you have marching around the board...then think of all those warmachines. It's inevitable that your going to face the decision...march and block LOS or don't and fire away. This is not an optimal result. Your list is what I call the "Iron Broom" type where a wide frontage of dwarf blocks with multiple heros and lords mixed in for CC march at the enemy in a line and sweep them off the board. Too many war machines will ruin this effect. Stay true to your original or your going to end up with a bastardized gunline which doesn't seem to be your intent.

I'm going to side with Bonzi on this one, too. In tourney settings, if you see any magic at all, it will be a tidal wave of magic and even Dwarf resistance to magic won't be enough. You're going to want that second Runesmith.

I would advise against a Master Engineer. He doesn't really make his points back for what he does, regardless of where you station him.

Additionally, and this is not a criticism, just an observation, it seems like the list becomes less and less march-y and more shooty with each iteration.

Really, for war machines all you really need is a Cannon and an Organ Gun. If the rest is Troops, with maybe a ten-strong Thunderer team, you've still got pretty nasty shooting power and you've got more boots on the ground than anyone can realistically handle.

I think you have drifted from the original concept and that you may want to ditch of the bolt throwers to bring back a second runesmith. Also, the GW isn't needed on the runesmith, with RofS and a shield they are dead 'ard and that alone makes them great in challenges.

What I think you really need though is RANGERS. These guys and accelerate forward and claim table corners, range with throwing axes, and give more great weapon punch. You may even want to consider upgrading your longbeards to rangers and give 'em throwing axes.

For a marching list, your numbers may be too low to overcome some armies, chaos and ogres come to mind.

right, after a very long and hard session working with members in L-O chat i've finally came to this list.

Dwarf Lord
Great weapon
Shield bearers
Rune of stone
Rune of resistance
Master rune of challenge
231 points

Thane
BSB
stollaz rune
rune of guarding
175 points

Runesmith
Great weapon
Shield
Rune of stone
Master rune of balance
132 points

Runesmith
Great weapon
Shield
Rune of stone
Spell breaker rune
106 points

Core

Dwarf warriors [24]
Musician
Standard
Shields
231 points

Dwarf warriors [19]
Musician
Standard
Shields
186 points

Dwarf warriors [20]
Shields
Great weapons
Full command
225 points

Long beards [19]
Full command
Great weapons
Shields
Master rune of grungi
341 points

Special

Hammerers [18]
Full command
Shields
264 points

Grudge thrower
Rune of accuracy
Rune of fire
110 points

Cannon
Rune of forging
125 points

Rare

Organ gun
120 points

It’s got most of the things mentioned in this thread and though I lack the gyro (irks me a little but not enough to change my mind) I’ve got a pretty solid force. The 3rd warrior unit sporting great weapons as well as shields to exploit their position out on the edges of the battle line, not completely sure about this but I reckon it’ll pay off (though I’m going against my own philosophy on the matter).

1 of the warrior units suffered a loss of numbers for its troubles but I suspect I’ll be placing it on the other flank and have it led by a rune smith (next to the hammerers for support) I chose to keep the GT in the list as I feel its ability to inflict lots of multiwound hits is invaluable. The cannon is always a solid choice and generally speaking... with my recent run of luck with bolt throwers probably an apt decision. The organ gun fills in quite a lot of blanks in this army, another worthy addition.

any more ideas to refine this army are welcome... but its already bursting to the seams :P


now excuse me while go drown my list building sorrows in a pint of bugmans best ;Y

Losing a Gyro isn't that big of a deal. After all, what self-respecting Dwarf would leave the solidity of the earth for a device that is held aloft by rotors made of cloth?

It's a great list. To be certain, set it up on the table and watch the dismayed look on your opponent's face when you set up your fourth and fifth block of Dwarfs. It will be something like, "Oh, come on. If each block takes a charge and a round of combat to beat, I can't actually win."

The loadout on the characters is still a little iffy, particularly the Lord, but that can be tweaked.

Overall, I think you've got a winner.

i think i can see the problems. with a little bit of tweaking i've edited the characters to incorperate a lot of the good points mentioned in this thread. once again i post an updated force. i think this is close to the best i can work this list.

Dwarf Lord
Master rune of swiftness
Rune of cleaving
Rune of fury
shield
Shield bearers
Master rune of challenge
268 points

Thane
BSB
stollaz rune
145 points

Runesmith
Shield
Rune of stone
Master rune of balance
127 points

Runesmith
Shield
Rune of stone
Spell breaker rune
102 points

Core

Dwarf warriors [24]
Musician
Standard
Shields
231 points

Dwarf warriors [19]
Musician
Standard
Shields
186 points

Dwarf warriors [20]
Shields
Great weapons
Full command
225 points

Long beards [19]
Full command
Great weapons
Shields
Master rune of grungi
341 points

Special

Hammerers [18]
Full command
Shields
264 points

Grudge thrower
Rune of accuracy
Rune of fire
110 points

Cannon
Rune of forging
125 points

Rare

Organ gun
120 points


again, point out anything you like/dislike.

I like it a lot personnally. I'd suggest that maybe, I STRESS MAYBE, including a master engineer for the Grudge Thrower but it is hardly necessary.

Thats a dead 'ard list arkilte, I think with some play testing and practice you'll have a winner.

Now at this point I'm going to talk about the Gyro but I'm not going to suggest you put it in your list, the list is good as is. I just mention this for the future reference of anyone reading this list and making their own marching army.

The Gyro is one of the most under appreciated war machines in the dwarf army, despite the fact that it has numerous bennies.

1. The most suitable war machine for a marching army. It's fast, mobile, tough and since its ideal realm of operation is in the enemies rear you'll never block its LoS like you can with an normal siege weapon.

2. Slows fast opponents like ogers or calvary to a crawl.

3. The steam gun can be murder on weak skirmishing troops or large blocks of light infantry...after all whats better than slowing an enemies march? Roasting their backsides while you do it.

4. Can give you the charge. Suppose you face an enemy you want to get the charge on with your GW Warriors. Most likely this will not happen, but if you team that unit up with a Gyro the chopper can hop over the enemy unit and rear charge it the turn before it can hit your lines...the toughness of the Gyro will likely keep it alive for a turn of combat on a rear charge..then your next turn your GW Warriors declare the charge and hit the front. Thats a lot of beat down...most opponents will lose combate and break after that.

5. No misfires! The Gyro is 100% reliable for its points...it may not have the killing power of a cannon or organ gun...but it also never blows up, the enemy has to kill it themselves to get rid of it. (this is less of an issue with dwarf war machine reliability but it remains true all the same)

6. You know those frenzied vampire knights everyone is fearing? Meet their match...the one thing in the dwarf army that can lead them in a circle or bait them into a stand of trees to slow them down. This applies to any frenzied troop...the gyro can lead them around by the nose the entire game.

7. Did I mention that this is a fast unit....in a dwarf army?

8. Did I mention that it is the most flexible, multi-role war machine that we have?

9. Missunderestimated. The Gyro is so rarely used by dwarfs that you'll be guaranteed to take you opponent by complete suprise, thats not an advantage to discard lightly.

The Gyro's roles are myriad, and when you team it up with Miners, Rangers, Anvil of Doom the possibilities and uses multiply even more.



Damn I need to write a tactica for underestimated units like Quarrellers, Rangers, Miners, Gyros and non-thorek anvils of doom...oh well, amybe some day if there is enough interest.

ach, come now i wasn't that bad. if this were a normal list i suspect i would have changed little. but as a tourney situation (something i'm very alien to) i thought i'd try and incorperate everything i thought was a good idea 0: its all worked out in the end however ;Y

I like it. It's nicely polished, but it doesn't deviate too much from your original concept. You'll let us know how it plays, right? :)