well i did a search and didnt find anything so i posted this...
what do people think are the worst black library books and authors?
just so i know what to avoid.

Apparently C.S.Goto is among them - accoring to those who read them, his books feature many inconsistencies, outright logic/plot gaps, often are heavily out of character and disregard the official background on more than just regular basis.

I just tried to read my first Goto book, 'Warrior Brood.' I couldn't finish it. Absolute rubbish. The book jumped in with a melee between the Deathwatch and Tyranids. It went on and on. I had to skip through it just so I could reach a slower paced introduction to the characters, who turn out to be complete clichés. No character development to speak of. The plot makes no sense at all. About the only interesting bit concerned a space battle, which concerned a character that had no relation to the others. I would have preferred just the space battle, but then Dan Abnett's Battle of Britain-esque 'Double Eagle' is far better for aerial combat.

The only book of Abnett's I don't like is 'Brothers of the Snake.' It is just difficult to write about space marines and make them interesting. On the other hand, some of the Horus Heresy books, including Abnett's, work very well indeed.

I have to agree. I've read only 2 of his novels, warriorbrood and warrior coven and both simply terrible.

I haven't read a bunch of bad novels in the 40K universe, but there are many I can recommend. I just finished Dan Abnett's Brothers of the Snake and it his only novel I can't recommend. Abnett's Eisenhorn and Ravenor trilogies are both about inquisitors, and are both amazing. His best work in my opinion (by far the best sci-fi combat I've ever read) is the Gaunt's Ghosts series. Start from the beginning and read them all, you won't be disappointed. These books are about a guard regiment, if that means anything to you. Double Eagle is also an excellent aerial combat novel, again by Abnett.

I really can't recommend Goto either. Aside from just being a really hard writer to read, his books are full of misinterpreted/inaccurate fluff, especially in the area of my chosen race.
I'll also advise the Eisenhorn and Gaunts Ghosts series.

The biggest let down for me was the Decent of angels book, horrible!!

Goto is probebly my least fav author too.

I would recommend against reading the Soul Drinkers series by Ben Counter. It hurt to read. I usually enjoy his work, but this series just seemed to drag on. In the first book I kept thinking to myself "These aren't Imperial Fists second founding, these are Emperors Children second founding". They were written as acting just like the EC in his book Galaxy in Flames. The first book wasn't that bad though. Pretty original (besides fluff contradiction). The second book is where I gave up on. They both have extremely similar bad guys, and they re-use ideas...

Semi-spoiler, but not really: 1st book had a gun that shot bullets that flew through the target multiple times. Second book an Inquisitor has autogun bullets that flew through targets multiple times. :z

Does anyone recommend the Grey Knights series by Ben Counter? I am thinking about reading them next but don't want to waste my time if they are horrible.

Does anyone recommend the Grey Knights series by Ben Counter? I am thinking about reading them next but don't want to waste my time if they are horrible.

Oh, definitely. Great books - not the best, granted, but very solid, enjoyable reads, nonetheless. The new one, Hammer of Daemons, is a bit odd (not surprising, given the context of this one) and takes some getting used to, but it's still a good book.

Scourge the Heretic is a pretty good one, too - You follow a team of an inquisitor's retinue, carrying out their own operations independent of the boss. Very human characters, and a very relaxed, natural set of interpersonal relationships - perhaps a bit closer to today's world than the usual 40K story, but that's not necessarily a bad thing... (actually, they're characters along the same lines as those in Ravenor - that should tell you something right there!)

The Draco Trilogy. Absolutely trash. The author (sadly i can't remember who this is) begins approximately 10 plot threads and finishes none of them. I couldn't recommend this trilogy to my most hated enemy.

Yeah, I have not read the Inquisitor War-trilogy but from what I have heard it is the book most deserving to be piled up and burnt.

I cannot understand why some did not like 'Brothers of the Snake'. I thought it excellent with a very nice theme, narration and intresting, while simple, characters.

I feel dirty admitting it but I actually enjoyed the Draco Trilogy.
But I think it was because it gave me so many laughs. It tries to be serious but if you read it as a parody, it is quite amusing.
I mean the main character has a chat face to face with the Emperor without being seen by any of the Custodes, Finds the Black Library by following an Imperial Fist Space Marine Captain who instinctively knows the way to go due to stabbing himself in the eye, has sex with a Callidus assassin, fights an Assassin Dreadnought, sleeps in a stasis box for a few hundred years, Kills his Navigator who fell in love with a Daemonette, then got his Imperial Fist friend to shape a weapon out of his Navigators 3rd Eye and has a squat mechanic.
I'm sure he gets up to more zany stuff but I read it a few years ago..

I feel dirty admitting it but I actually enjoyed the Draco Trilogy.
But I think it was because it gave me so many laughs. It tries to be serious but if you read it as a parody, it is quite amusing.
I mean the main character has a chat face to face with the Emperor without being seen by any of the Custodes, Finds the Black Library by following an Imperial Fist Space Marine Captain who instinctively knows the way to go due to stabbing himself in the eye, has sex with a Callidus assassin, fights an Assassin Dreadnought, sleeps in a stasis box for a few hundred years, Kills his Navigator who fell in love with a Daemonette, then got his Imperial Fist friend to shape a weapon out of his Navigators 3rd Eye and has a squat mechanic.
I'm sure he gets up to more zany stuff but I read it a few years ago..

This is like some sort of wacky 40k sitcom, eh?

Tekore

It is actually the first novels ever released by GW. I guess they did not have a quality control then, eh?

They did not have the 40k universe as it is now, either. From reading some other stuff written by Watson, I'm under the impression that intense weirdness is something of his trademark.

Ben Counter isn't a good writer, but CS Goto is just an outright bad writer. I have never read anything of his I enjoyed in the least.
His plots are poorly conceived and nebulous, he takes way too many liberties with the source material, his characters are shallow and his language is more obtuse than it has to be.

Try to read "Eldar Prophesy". ;) That's the worst of the lot.

I think most of their fantasy stuff is bad; Gotrek and Felix, Fell Cargo, Malus Darkblade books, the 2nd and 3rd Carstein vampire books, the wood elf and high elf books. I gave up on their fantasy line.

40K wise, Descent of Angels is horrible!!!!!!!!!!!
Dead Sky, Black Sun was a complete waste!!!!!
The Blood Raven stuff isn't great.
The Inquisition War stuff = bad.
The Soul Drinker stuff isn't great.
Dark Apostle not the best.
The Night Lord book was bad.
The Eisenhorn stuff is good, as per everyone's opinion.
Storm of Iron was a favorite of mine.
I might be one of five people who doesn't really like the Guant novels. They aren't bad, I just don't care for the characters or story.
I really liked the Caiphas Cain series is fun, not great but FUN.
The grey knights stuff is good so far. The new book sounds awful. Lets put a marine on a demon world again (see Dark Sky, Black Sun).

The Night Lord book was bad.

This I cannot understand. Good mix of action and story, great character development and development of the plot, great atmoshpere. 'Lord of the Night' is awesome. :)
Each to their own I guess...

This I cannot understand. Good mix of action and story, great character development and development of the plot, great atmoshpere. 'Lord of the Night' is awesome. :)
Each to their own I guess...

I had a problem with the plot. Sure the action was alright. I didn't much care for the female sidekick as she seemed to become.
Many parts of story just seemed silly to me. Sure you want to have a night lord from the heresy back up and running around, but in a hive city with his band of followers and a sidekick? So he can get the magical crown/orb of power or whatever it was.

Lose the sidekick and I might have liked it better. She just seemed contrived to me. Sure add her, but make her part smaller or kill her off.Then again I hate sidekick, follwers,lackeys or general hanger-ons like she was.
If you liked that is great. I'm not gonna say anything negative. Many people don't like my opinion on books. This isn't the first or last time. I just wasn't that impressed as was with other black library books. Sorry.

No need to be sorry! I love when people actually explain why they liked or disliked a book. :)

I have to disagree with you all about Ben Counter. I read the first two Grey Knight books and I thought they were great, albiet the plots were just a little farfetched. But then again, this is the 40k universe we are talking about here, so just about anything is possible. I actually liked the second book more than the first.

*plot spoiler*
I'm very much into chaos fluff, and the idea of tech-daemons and a STC tainted by chaos just seemed like a novel idea to me.
*/end plot spoiler*

I just started reading the Soul Drinkers trilogy today and so far it isn't bad. I guess I'm just used to his usual style of writing where the plot skips around a lot from different perspectives, a lot like one of my favorite science fiction authors, Timothy Zahn. 8Y I just finished the first chapter of the first book and the plot took off running, and even did a fairly decent job of introducing most of the characters.

At the top of the list is C.S. Goto. But a very GOOD novel is Night Haunter.

Descent of Angels is not only the worst BL novel, but is actually the worst novel I have read period.

I am a fan of Graham McNeill. I think Nightbringer is an exellent novel and Fulgrim is no contest the best of the HH series.

*plot spoiler*
I'm very much into chaos fluff, and the idea of tech-daemons and a STC tainted by chaos just seemed like a novel idea to me.
*/end plot spoiler*


Well, you're infor a treat in the HH series then

Mechanicum, coming out in December sometime looks intrigueing and is a vital step in the HH story. It's going to be written by McNeill so I don't know the outcome of this one! Plus the front cover looks cool 8Y

As for the upcoming Legion written by none other than Abnett, looks like he's stepped into the ring to bring the series back on track! :party:


-Kai-Itza-

As for the upcoming Legion written by none other than Abnett, looks like he's stepped into the ring to bring the series back on track! :party:


-Kai-Itza-
HAHAHAHAHAHA, oh that's funny...
It almost sounded like you said Legion wasn't a abomination that completely butchers the fluff and makes Alph (1 of only 2 cool primarchs) LAME.

It almost sounded like you said Legion wasn't a abomination that completely butchers teh fluff and makes Alph (1 of only 2 cool primarchs) LAME.

I was just saying that the last book; Descent of Angels, is a good read but, I find that the author took a step backwards too far resulting in a time on Caliban far before the Emporer came to find El Jonson, thus ending up with a boring read that totally cooled my anticipation and excitement in the series.

Yeah the writer tried to slow things down a little by starting in the more quiet areas of the Imperium, for me, I find that the book needs way more action. I agree that the series are focussed in a way towards the realistic reality of how these characters lived, learnt and fought together as well as the brotherly emotion beween the Primarchs and the Astartes, and how they felt when fighting one another in pure cinematic horror!

All in all, I find that the DoA is a good read, I'll give him that. It's just the cooled down period that just went too cold IMO.

Anyway, I was not jumping to conclusions saying that the Alpha Legion Primach was lame. I don't know how you've got this message from behind my words, I did not even think of such a thing since I haven't got the book yet, for I'm not the type to judge the book by it's cover. I was just saying that the DoA was a boring read and I'll be looking forward to reading Legion to try and get that excitement that I once had whilst reading the first four books of the series back, hopefully as a small piece.

Now that's a lame plan if I ever had one! :D.

Sorry for the rant people, I just thought that I would nip this in the bud before things get out of control. Even though I didn't say that the Alpha Legion's Primarch was crappy, I don't even know the bloke!


-Kai-Itza-

Now that's a lame plan if I ever had one! :D.

Sorry for the rant people, I just thought that I would nip this in the bud before things get out of control. Even though I didn't say that the Alpha Legion's Primarch was crappy, I don't even know the bloke!


-Kai-Itza-No, it wasn't you. Legion ruined Alpharius, simple as that. When you read it you'll see why.

Yeah I agree that Descent of Angels was pretty bad, especially considering the strenght of the Horus Heresy series.

C.S. Goto is by far the worst author of Black Library novels, and Eldar Prophecy was one of the worst books I've ever read. It was just painful to finish.

The shock of it! ;o

You're saying that Abnett might have screwed up Alpharius in Legion?? I wonder in what way...
Though I must admit, the front cover does look a little crappy :D

I'll be getting it monday! :party:


-Kai-Itza-

The shock of it! ;o

You're saying that Abnett might have screwed up Alpharius in Legion?? I wonder in what way...
Though I must admit, the front cover does look a little crappy :D

I'll be getting it monday! :party:


-Kai-Itza-You'll see, it's just bad.