I harp on the whole staggered release that GW does on a regular basis. If you don't hear me say it much on here its probably because I mumble it under my breath everytime my friend brings up wanting to play with is WH40K lite army... exucse me you might also know it as THE EMPIRE 7th edition... lol ok its not that bad but seriously who knew pidgeons would be so damn effective. Anyways, has anybody been so turned off by the process off slowly releasing these manuals one at a time that they've just put WH on hold? I personally despise the logic behind it, but wont get into that argument here. Anyways I've put the Brets on the back burner for a bit waiting and watching since ironically the main armies I play against are wood elves, high elves, dwarves, and empire, so maybe I'm feeling the brunt of it.

Has anybody heard ANYTHING about the Brettonnians on the horizon? I'm guessing it will be a while. Unfortunately (somehow) its a bad thing that the Brets were fairly well constructed in 6th edition, it means we wont see much action for a while I'm guessing. The only army i can think of that seriously needs work is the khemri, other than that when was bretonnia released in 6th edition, what order? I wonder if anybody has any educated guesses for how many more armies before ours.

I hate it too, gradual releases for armies would be far better. However this would require providing free Army Books online, and having them constantly updated, and both of these are beyond GW.

Anyway.. Brets were one of the last 6th ed armies to be done. I havent hard any rumours of then yet so i think you have a good 3ish year wait.

Brets are fine as they are though i think, they are pretty competitive. What changes do you think are vitally required?

I dont know, maybe more individuality between the knight types. The Errants should be more errant, the kotr can stay base-line, but hopefully more differences in the questing and grail knights (I suppose the pegasus knights are unique enough). I personally feel like EVERY army should have its own unique magic and then be able to pull from generic magic. That being said, I'd like to see damsels redone or a 3rd character type added. I think if the dogs of war were brought in line the penalty that brets are pure would be more full realized. I'd even like to see allied units from other armies again and restrict brets from it, that way they could beef them up without moving too far away from what they already have.

I would like to see a strong revision in the magic item/honour section. Some new magic items for other armies duplicate what the brets have as of now and I'd rather just see vast improvements when comparing the lance the vamps have that auto hits vs the brets lance that auto hits but doesnt work without the blessing.

I suppose the law of if its not broken dont fix it applies somewhere in here. If knights are all we have, and we are the masters of kngihthood then it must mean 2 things. 1) Our knights need to pheaseably (with the backing of peasents etc..) be able to tackle most unit types if not under moderate conditions hopefully in optimum conditions. 2) Although we should be able to handle most situations with at least one unit type we should feel some sting from being so one dimensional but not so much that we auto lose to certain army makeups.

I suppose the law of if its not broken dont fix it applies somewhere in here.


This applies really well to the army book cycle actually. If it aint broke (much anyway) then don't try to fix it until you've fixed the army books that are. Brets have one of the most recent 6th ed books, and there is nothing in the book which needs a major change, so there are plenty of other armies which deserve the overhaul first, like Dark Elves and Skaven.

Essentially, a new update hits the shelves every 2 years. Of course, this doesn't hold true for all of us. Some of us had to wait AGES for a new book. The poor Dark Elves are STILL waiting for a book. So are the Chaos Dwarves, if you want to get technical. Sadly, you are looking at being one of the last updates. And, if you remember, sometimes you get a new book and go "wait- WTH is this rule for? why is this guy so overpriced, why is this guy so cheap, why is my list off-balance?!". That's usually how you can tell that a new ruleset is coming. They write the book speculatively, hoping that their ideas will carry over.
Stupid tactic, I know. But it happens. HE needed a fix for a VERY long time, and the WE needed a fix since the LAST ruleset on the shelves! The Empire got one just because they're the poster, and Dwarves got one because frankly- without new plastics and all the hype, they would have gone under.

You'll get a book, but for now you'll have to make do.

Essentially, a new update hits the shelves every 2 years.

Where on earth have you got that from?!? Its more like 5-6.

Brets are powerful and a great army as they are. They wont need an update for a long time.

We do have flaws, but we're a very strong army overall. While I'm not saying changes aren't needed in some areas, I think they'll wait on us for a while.

Tekore

I'm not trying to say that Brets are a weak list or that we need a complete overhaul. Frankly, I'm sympathetic to anybody who hasn't already had an army update sinche 7th edition rules came out. There are a few aspects to the Bret army that definitely were incompatible with the new rule changes and for that at least deserve erreta. Frankly I'm sold on the concept that the latest army to be released has had that much more time for consideration and that many more oppertunities to be ever-so-slightly better than the work before it. I know every time a new list comes out every calls shinanigans but after some time that hype dies down and people actually learn how to fight said army. Even so, I would still say staggering armies does lead to a little of that phenomenon. I would much rather see all the books come out as one release / edition. Models can follow suit in the time that they need to but essentially warhammer is 2 hobbies in one. The model construction and painting and then the actual game. And for the most part when your focused on one your a little less focused on the other. You dont have to treat the rules as being REQUIRED to release at the exact same time of the models UNLESS it is a totally redesigned or completely new model. In which case they could release those first.

And before I sign off I wanna say how sad it is the Chaos Dwarves got mistreated they way they did. Back before I played I still was around warhammer and at the hobby store I often went to for MTG there was a regular there who had an AWSOME chaos dwarf army. Unfortunately that army is completely shafted, other than as an amazing display piece, I just dont want some of these armies including my own to feel like CD must feel on a much higher scale.

I harp on the whole staggered release that GW does on a regular basis. If you don't hear me say it much on here its probably because I mumble it under my breath everytime my friend brings up wanting to play with is WH40K lite army... exucse me you might also know it as THE EMPIRE 7th edition... lol ok its not that bad but seriously who knew pidgeons would be so damn effective. Anyways, has anybody been so turned off by the process off slowly releasing these manuals one at a time that they've just put WH on hold? I personally despise the logic behind it, but wont get into that argument here. Anyways I've put the Brets on the back burner for a bit waiting and watching since ironically the main armies I play against are wood elves, high elves, dwarves, and empire, so maybe I'm feeling the brunt of it.

Has anybody heard ANYTHING about the Brettonnians on the horizon? I'm guessing it will be a while. Unfortunately (somehow) its a bad thing that the Brets were fairly well constructed in 6th edition, it means we wont see much action for a while I'm guessing. The only army i can think of that seriously needs work is the khemri, other than that when was bretonnia released in 6th edition, what order? I wonder if anybody has any educated guesses for how many more armies before ours.

My best guess would be sometime around 2010-2011. Quite frankly we don't need the update, as we were one of the least effected armies by the 7th Edition rule changes.

From what I've heard the releases for the rest of 2007 are as follows:

- April/May - Daemons of Chaos
- Summer 2008 - Hordes of Chaos (I've heard rumors it will be a White Dwarf fix, similar to what Blood Angels got last year)
- Fall 2008 - Dark Elves
- Winter 2008/2009 - Skaven

Then my best guesses for next year would be:

- Beasts of Chaos
- Lizardmen
- Ogre Kingdoms

After that you are left with Dwarves, Tomb Kings, Bretonnia, and Wood Elves. These armies imo are the best off currently and least in need of an army book fix, so expect them to be held out till last.

I'm curious to see why everyone really things Bretonnia needs an update actually. They are an extremely well put together army. They are quite competitive and fairly accurately priced points wise. What we really need is a FAQ, to clarify a few things, such as The Sacrament of the Lady.

The Sarcament works exactly as it says Spec. This was clarified in a WD release as 7th ed arrived.

The Sarcament works exactly as it says Spec. This was clarified in a WD release as 7th ed arrived.

I know how it works, its a stupid item. I pay X amount of points to make double the amount of PD so I can't cast with them. Brilliant.

Yea... was great in 6th. The one army i could see it being useful against is a magic heavy Ogre one, to dispel all their ''RiP'' spells. Thats about it...

Yep would be a while when we get the new update. However as menioned before, we don't need the update in terms of balance. Brets were actually a bit too good in 6th edition but in comparison to the new 7th books they feel really balanced.

However I think brets could be more vertile. Iam missing elite foot knights and our magic should be redone. But these are just wishes :rofl and other armies do need changes for balance sake. Conclusion: Some changes would be really appreciated but its not really needed.

The problem with elite foot knights is Bretonnia is an elite cavalry army. The way we are balanced out is by having crappy weaker infantry, shooting, and magic. Giving us elite infantry will only make us that much stronger due to now having an even better way to deal with tarpit units, or a better way to hold enemies up for us to flank.

It would be like giving our Damsels and Prophetesses access to Lore of Fire. While it might be appealing, it would break the balance of the army.

My best guess would be sometime around 2010-2011. Quite frankly we don't need the update, as we were one of the least effected armies by the 7th Edition rule changes.

From what I've heard the releases for the rest of 2007 are as follows:

- April/May - Daemons of Chaos
- Summer 2008 - Hordes of Chaos (I've heard rumors it will be a White Dwarf fix, similar to what Blood Angels got last year)
- Fall 2008 - Dark Elves
- Winter 2008/2009 - Skaven

Then my best guesses for next year would be:

- Beasts of Chaos
- Lizardmen
- Ogre Kingdoms

After that you are left with Dwarves, Tomb Kings, Bretonnia, and Wood Elves. These armies imo are the best off currently and least in need of an army book fix, so expect them to be held out till last.

I'm curious to see why everyone really things Bretonnia needs an update actually. They are an extremely well put together army. They are quite competitive and fairly accurately priced points wise. What we really need is a FAQ, to clarify a few things, such as The Sacrament of the Lady.

unless something has changed, I think you've got this a little backwards

- April/May - Daemons of Chaos
- Summer 2008 - Releasing of Space Marines
- August 2008 - Dark Elves
- November 2006 Chaos Mortals - will get a full book completely new and updated, probably with updated (similar to demon) magic lores. This is one of the oldest books, and it will get the full treatment. They don't white dwarf any army books anymore, and blood angels are completely different than a flagship army for WHFB.
- Winter 2009 - Skaven

Out of all the books that need updating and that will probably still get the shaft - its' Beastmen players that should be begging for a new book.

- November 2006 Chaos Mortals - will get a full book completely new and updated, probably with updated (similar to demon) magic lores. This is one of the oldest books, and it will get the full treatment.


I missed that one :S, didn't know they could do that releasing a new book in the past. :P

Well there are a few things that I would like to see in a new army release-

1. Modification to questing knights- after the modification to cavalry double handed weapons these guys are pretty marginal. Either chop off some points or give them a special rule or something.

2. New character models/plastic character sets- it kind of stinks to see all the same heroes in the same pose all over the place. You can kind of change them on your own, but not too much unless you're some master model maker or something.

3. Some sort of special ally rule with the wood elves (probably a pipe dream, but they're supposed to have an alliance... maybe something like Bretonnia can take 0-1 glade gaurd as troops?)

I would also have to agree that the staggered release really sucks. 6 year old army books are pretty worthless. Trust me, I played wood elves and it was no fun playing with a 5th edition codex 3 or 4 years after they came out with 6th edition. At least 6th and 7th edition aren't THAT different. 5th edition was a totally different (hero based) game than 6th edition, so the book basically just had to be tossed and you had to play with some crappy ravening hordes list. Man I hate staggered release.