Hello.

I'm getting into Warmachine and Hordes with some friends and after pain-staking selection processes regarding who I shall play (due to playstyle, other games I play, not wanting to copy armies - 2 players have Menoth already) I've narrowed it down to Cygnar, Circle or Skorne, thou Skorne models don't impress me much.

I was wondering if anyone can tell me much about the style of Cygnar regarding its advantage regarding accurate and long range shooting capability. Do their guns really have much of an impact on the game and can you build a nice shooty force without spamming long gunners as I always prefer variety to spams!

Welcome to the PP Games section! :)

Firstly, you're right to avoid Skorne. To say nothing of their backstory and their rules, both of which are actually super-cool, their models look like chewed pieces of gum, and if no one buys them, then PP might re-sculpt them. (And they should, because right now they are a blight on an otherwise extremely impressive range of figures.)

But onto Cygnar. Cygnar gunnery does indeed make a difference in a game. (It's not like 40k where most of the shooting just bounces off Power Armor and the game's outcome is determined by who charges whom.)

Mind you, it's not mindless shooting. You still need to decide what needs to be firing where based on gun strength, range, the gun's operator, etc. However, it does take down enemy numbers and it does make a difference.

In terms of spam-lists, that's the best part of the PP game series: "Your in-game tactics are far more important than the pieces you field." Sure, some lists may be a little more powerful than others and some units may be a little crippled, but, all things being equal, the better player will win, not the better list-writer.

I don't like taking doubles of anything, and I never do, but I never feel like I'm compromising my list by doing so.

Once you've taken your Long Gunners, your Trenchers, and your Gun Mages, which are all extremely cool shooting units, you'll find you won't have room left for two of anything. :)

Can you give me an example of how their shooting works? Say how a light jack or the long gunners are able to do so much. I'm hoping to acquire the rulebook soon to help me out on this!

How shooting works? Well, the weapon operator, in this case, the Long Gunner points the muzzle end of his rifle at the target designated by his commander, and in the fashion prescribed in the rifle's instruction manual. The operator subsequently pulls the trigger and the weapon load is delivered with reasonable accuracy towards the target, inflicting damage.

:D

Or did you mean, "How are they effective"? Without getting bogged down in detail...

Well, the Long Gunners, like pretty much any unit from the PP games, are essentially crippled on their own, but they shine through special abilities and through spell combos with their Warcasters. The Long Gunners are able to fire twice, and/or can combine their fire for fewer, but more powerful shots. Some Casters have the spell 'Snipe' which allows them even more range to their rifles. Further, there is a Unit Attachment

Thus, the Long Gunner, himself a pretty weedy unit, turns into a unit that can inflict massive amounts of damage from far away.

The actual mechanic for resolving damage is consistent throught the game. Roll dice, add value and modifiers, compare against opponent's value and modifiers, the difference is the damage.

Roll 2 dice, add your range shooting value.

If it equals or beats target's Defense value then you hit.

Roll 2 dice and add weapon strength.

If you exceed the targets armor value your damage is = to the difference.

-981

Welcome to this fantastic game. :)

One shall note that wile you can make an army that focuses on shooting stuff to small, bloddy pieces, you will need CC support since your models will end up in CC sooner or later, and Long Gunners are crap in CC, since they cannot make melee attacks. :D

Cygnar have the capability to make probably the best force that balances melee power and shooting, since they have the (expensive) troops to make those lists.

They are wussies though. Khador is way manlier. ;)

Firstly, you're right to avoid Skorne. To say nothing of their backstory and their rules, both of which are actually super-cool, their models look like chewed pieces of gum, and if no one buys them, then PP might re-sculpt them. (And they should, because right now they are a blight on an otherwise extremely impressive range of figures.)


Lies.
The Skorne are awesome. I love their models (except the Basilisks...). I give you one thing. Tyrant Xerxis.
HORDES :: Privateer Press (http://www.privateerpress.com/HORDES/gallery/default.php?level=picture&id=89)
'Nuff said.

Not to go off on a tangent or anything, but I'm going to respectfully disagree with the Camel on the quality of Skorne models. You might be looking at them from the neck down, in which case they are tremendous. Their heads, though, ruin the entire model line. They are poorly-designed and inconsistently sculpted. The East-Asian/Persian aesthetic they have looks great, but not even the most talented painter in the world can make those heads look good, unless you start green-stuffing some helmets or bandanas for them.

In Cygnar terms, though, he's right on. Despite having very expensive troopers, Cygnarans can field exceptionally well-balanced forces. Naturally, though, this isn't Math-hammer and, thus, the list you bring isn't nearly as important as how you play it. :)

(I actually like how the Skorne faces looks... Quite unique and a fresh breeze, I say.)

One thing to remember with Cygnar is that you will always have fewer models than your opponent. Aside from the Sword Knights, all Cygnar units are waaay more expensive than most units from the other factions and in particular compared to the Protectorate and Cryx.
Of course, Cygnar's troops are better as well, but their advantages come at a huge cost.

Doesn't sound too bad as at least it will mean a cheap force to collect right? :P On the HORDES side I was thinking of Trollbloods and Orboros but with both it seems you have to purchase a fair few models to make the armies I liked (i.e a lot of their good stuff is infantry).

With regards to expensive models, fair enough I can see the Cryx and Menoth chucking out loads of models but surely Khador must have a similar issue with their mass armour jacks?

Is there a guide on this forum that explains the workings of all the different units you can collect? Something to mull over before I acquire the book soon on Ebay? :-)

On the HORDES note, you're half-right. On the one hand, each HORDES faction has tremendous choices when it comes to Infantry units, but the Warlocks cannot function without Warbeats, so every force needs to have at least a few Warbeasts. This does cut down on the number of models one needs in order to build a large force.