A Neglected Army?

[DavidWC09]

As long as I've known Warhammer, which is about four years, the idea of a mercenary army both appeals to me and makes sense.

Yet GW has never published an official army book for Dogs of War. Annual 2002 and Chronicles 2003 printed a lot of rules, but even now, they are all but extinct, at least rules-wise.

Has GW neglected a viable army? One that would not only play well, but also sell well?

[Deadstar_MRC]

Fluffwise:
No, I don't think they've neglected this army. I couldn't see it working from a fluff point of view. Admittedly I don't know all that much about the Dogs or War units but I can't really see a bunch of mercenaries coming together (unless someone really rich was leading them) or agreeing to fight together - maybe fore a bit, but I imagine they'd end up a bit like Orcs, except whole units would be squabbling and exchanging blows!

I guess making rules as to who could fight with who would work, if they haven't already done something like this.


Businesswise:
I think this could certainly be a good idea. I imagine that not a lot of people currently use all that many Dogs of War units. But if they had their own Army Book, they'd be a lot more mainstream and accessible to a lot more people.

Plus it would suit those hobbyists that love variety - every unit could be painted different, the possibilities for conversions would be practically endless. Those people who always find themselves getting bored with an army and not finishing it would now have a refuge, as no unit in your army need be the same.


Regardless of the two arguments presented above, weren't GW already doing something with their Dogs of War? Something about re-organising them on the website?

Could this, in their ponderous, glacial-like way indicate that something is possibly in the works for Dogs of War?

Can I get any more vague? For these and other fascinating answers tune in next week!

[DavidWC09]

Could this, in their ponderous, glacial-like way indicate that something is possibly in the works for Dogs of War?

You deserve rep for this alone.

[InquisitorAffe]

I have a similar feeling about the DoW issue as I do in the remarks I made in the thread about rules from 2nd Ed 40K. The whole competitive gaming/tournament scene has really moved to the forefront of the GW market since I started playing their games 15 years ago. Back then it was just this thing a tiny fraction of hobbyists did once or twice a year, at least from my perspective. Now highly attended organised competitive events seem to be the bread and butter of the industry.

What does this mean?

Any rules that are hard to police, hard to test in every possible combination, add layers of complexity, are a Bad Thing(tm). You have for example a (more or less) carefully created balanced and play tested Vampire Counts army book that the design studio put a lot of time and money into crafting into a balanced component of what their vision for the future of the books is. Now you toss it out there with some generic DoW rules. WOOO! VC WITH CANNUNS EAT LED NEWBS. See what I'm getting at?

Essentially for GW tourney purposes they entire DoW system has been reduced to "Empire can have Ogres and yeah you guys can use giants if you want." Why? It's impossible to say 'this army book is balanced and suitable for use in competition' if you have all kinds of supplemental rules floating around that can be combined with it in all kinds of crazy ways.

Say what you want (and a lot of it will be true) about what from our perspective seems to pass for 'balance' and 'play testing', but the *idea* I think is sincere.

The designers have made some remarks that no they don't consider DoW dead and do plan to reintegrate it at some point, but I have a feeling they'll have an uphill battle with the business guys about why exactly it's so very different from Empire before they're allowed to write the book =)

[The Loki]

Well you can Viably Play DoW now if you really wanted to (ive done it) But they sorely need to be redone. I sure hope they are as they are such a nifty army.


In the DoW defence their fast calvary is the best for the points cost in the warhammer world (IE as good as most and a helluva lot cheaper).


Really how it rolls right now is take 3 blocks of Crossbowmen and the rest of the army is pulled from your Ogre Models =P.


really a points shuffle across the board, Paymaster gets some oomph and an actual magic item list. While im on the subject of magic items im gonna rant. IF High Elves get common magical items for cheaper DoW BETTER get them for the same price or cheaper -_-.



Off topic but Truthsayer + Ogre's (DoW army of course as OK cant take the TSayer) = Profit.

[buckero0]

Really how it rolls right now is take 3 blocks of Crossbowmen and the rest of the army is pulled from your Ogre Models =P.

I disagree with this, though a few OK ironguts has never hurt anyone. Dave, the DoW rules you mentioned are actually reprints from 5th edition if my research is right. The rules need an update. It would take me about 2 1/2 hours to update them myself and then some playtesting time. I agree with you that the financial aspect of revitalizing the DoW book is a no brainer. At this time, DoW is the ultimate Modeller's army. None of the old models are around, so it is very appealing to the guy who likes to convert and make their own units (which is why i love the DoW). Make your own fast cav, make your own pikemen, make your own wizard/captain etc. The whole army is a custom job. GW could take a couple of hours to pound out a few rule updates, playtest them and release them and leave the rest to the imagination of the players. Upgrade points and rules need updating and magic items need some help. Regiments of renown need a little clarifying and updating to bring them in line with the rest of the army books. With the variety that they possess, they're actually not that bad of an army. The Truthsayer is really good, especially against those magic heavy armies. Fast and heavy cav are good, Ironguts are decent, Norsemen aren't too bad. Their crossbow men and dwarves are about right. You're not going to dominate anyone, but you can have a balanced army.

[Cossack]

It looks to me like GW has put a bulllet in my beloved army. There is nothing on the website about it, DoW allies are gone from the new books, and customer server won't tell me anything (big shock there, I know)

I have three armies:

Chaos: Split into pieces. My army is not viable as currently built.

High Elves: Got better! Imagine that.

Dogs of War: Dead. Thanks GW.

Looks like I'll be playing High Elves.

[boo]

actually... the DoW are still on website
GW Online : Warhammer : Dogs of War : Dogs of War Army Lists (http://uk.games-workshop.com/dogsofwar/lists/)

[Cossack]

Where? Post a link please, because I don't see it and a search doesn't find it.

[Oblonghead]

Hello all

Dogs of war are still cool intresting and playable. I have been playing for about 2 3 years of fantasy (well alot more then that but before that it was more owning models and books and not knowing what i was doing and then there was a big gap) So you dont need to be a age old vet with old rules and what not to play them.

The only dissadvantage of dogs of war is that you cant use them in tournaments, I dont really mind this, its one day a year (at alot of the smaller tournaments there still aloud) and for the tournaments use a different army if i even go. For the rest of the year the army i enjoy most is dogs.

All the rules are on the website for the Regiments of reknown and core army supplement.

When thinking about making a full dogs of war army its easy of pie (i have the annual luckily but the rules on the internet are just the same (i know where to find the rules for the DOW characters if anyone wants a link)). Also i have played with the rules and i have to say there relatively ballenced for a old chunk of rules, the MAIN thing to keep in mind is that your not taking them to a tourney and it is a game, be fun with building the army list take variety and the list is really fun to play with. If you go and just get loads of pikemen and loads of crossbowmen and try and just make a powerful army then it gets a bit boring and people will complain (lol i think we all know from these forums how much people like to complain.) Usually who would care if someone complains bu there just going to say its because your using invalid rules, which your not but sometimes its just not worth the hassle.

With using dogs in other armies the regiments of reknown all give a detail about what armies they are aloud in and how many slots they take off, most of the units arnt a problem to be honest, people may get worried about cannons in armies that shouldnt have them but the only cannon your aloud is a galloper gun which is short range not too powerful and also alot of points. But be sensible, the rules help make it sensible but in the end the rules arnt built so you can go hahahahahaaaaaaa i shall crush you , with this boost and you cant do anything about it, just be fun.

In the end as long as you make sure that its okay with your opponent then its all lovely and happy, and in all fairness i dont know how it is for you but in my social circles people tend to be well up for playing a different and intresting army.

With what they could do in the future i think Making a DOW army list would be easy for tournament play, Just a bit of points changing and shuffling its quite easy to make it ballenced. The thing thats hard is making it so dogs of war can be recruiited in other armies for tournament play. In the end the best option would probably be by them making the book and saying, "Full dogs of war armies made up of dogs of war units are tournament legal, for incorperating dogs of war in normal armies here is the rules in how to incorperate them, who can be and how many but this is just for non tournament play". This gets rid of fiddly and difficult job of having additions of dogs of war in other armies for tournament play but lets a dogs of war army list be introduced with models that doesnt suffer because none of it can be used in tournament play.


Dogs of war are well good hehe i just hope GW gives them a little love

Happy playing

[Mr. Derp]

Heh heh, the dogs of war are only about as neglected as this part of the forum is.

[tarkin1980]

Dogs of War are indeed a neglected army (Second only to Chaos Dorfs) with huge potential, IMHO. Admittedly, many of the regiments of renown are utter crap, but the idea of a mercernary army is very appealing. I've always been into humans in fantasy games, be it RPG's, table top or computer games, and warhammer needs more human armies! (But not before Chaos Dorfs are re-released, they deserve it even more :P).. DoW used to have a proper army book in 5th ed and they were, IIRC, a much more viable army back then than they are now. What really got me going was that Bronzino's galloper guns could move and fire.. mwahahaha! So yes, I would love to see GW give these guys some love (As long as it's not at the expense of Chaos Dorfs).


PS. I like Chaos Dorfs. Tall hats FTW.

[rabitshadow]

Although i would love to have DoC in my army it would just be whats the word ? "cheese" (ha i put DoC i meant DoW (love my chaos) )Imagine this vast blocks of marauders only 3 points each (mainly because they cant be supported by artillery) but whats this i have crossbowmen from DoW i would completly kick ass. :beer: