This is to prove to various people (you know who you are!) that I do infact own some paints, and occasionally use them on models:

I've been in this hobby for some time now, but one of the things I dislike is painting - I love seeing fully painted armies on the table, but as I don't think I can do the miniatures justice (I spend time converting most) I don't like to paint them as I worry about mucking them up. So I decided it was time I got over that block...and painting this miniature sort of depressed me, as it made me realise that I can't paint - so my block was well-founded after all. But, I can only improve and keep painting, and this is what it's all about.

Here's a Salamander marine I've painted - and it's near as done as I can make it for the time being (still experimenting with painting flames). I apologise if it's a bit of an eye-sore - some parts of the model went really well (like the Gold chest eagle and getting a smooth Snot Green coat) but then the highlighting and eyes...well, I jsut can't seem to get them right. I had my first attempt at blending the highlights too, mostly on the (model's) right hand side - by the time it came to finishing the left I'd gone back to extreme-highlighting.

I would really like some C&C on this model, especially in the form of ways/techniques to improve:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0243.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0239.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0241.jpg

And a close-up of the gold I'm really, really happy with:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0237.jpg

Many thanks for any C&C and tips, and I apologise if your eyes are now a little sore!

Thats a pretty solid start, maybe a few really light watered down green ink washes to even out your highlighting and it should be good. Maybe just a personal preference of mine but the golden eyes might be better dulled down with some chestnut ink; otherwise i have to say for a first time painter you have done a nice job. The blended side is pretty neat, its a pain in the ass but it will come up great with some practice and the ink washes will make the transition shades look smoother. Water it down so that its only a really light tinge and then just do 2 or 3 layers to let it build gradually.

Keep it up.

Honestly, this guy is a really good start and a whole army of models painted to this standard would look fantastic on the table. My only two suggestions would be to base him (or paint the base, since he's already flocked) and to neaten up your highlight lines. The first one is really easy and improves the look of the mini by a ton, and the second one comes with practice and patience.

Great work!

Thanks for the kind words!

I should confess I am not a first-time painter - I do have several Guard figures, but I find them easy to paint - the few smooth surfaces and the fact that I use a camouflage-and-wash scheme makes them quick & easy. The smooth plates of the Space Marines are a challenge for me, it appears. I've never fully painted a Marine before though - and never used blending/proper edge-highlights (Guard are drybrush & wash only, pretty much).

maybe a few really light watered down green ink washes to even out your highlighting and it should be good.

I had problems with inks before, that it left the model looking "blotchy" - maybe it was because I didn't water down enough. Will see how this turns out.

The blended side is pretty neat, its a pain in the ass but it will come up great with some practice

I had some real problems with the Scorpion Green blending (it's why I stopped on the other side): I watered down the Scorpion Green (I did actually water down all the Snot Green and Metallics as well), but found that the coverage was non-existant - ie, I just got a "wet streak" with a few blobs of pigment in it instead of a line of thin paint. That kneepad was painted about 4 times thanks to this. Was this because I watered down too much, didn't pick up enough on the brush, or it's a bad quality pot?

Also, any tips on improving that blending would be appreciated - I like the effect, just not the blotchy/chalky look once it's dried.

and to neaten up your highlight lines

I had real trouble with these - using the tip got a nice, thin line (when the paint actually was paint not water), but it was a little wavy (having to stop every mm to get more paint as coverage was going and the fact it seems I alter the pressure I use when painting like that); so I then tried using the side of the brush - wich resulted in a very neat line, but it was really thick (covering a large chunk of the armour plate as well as the edge!). Would really like some ideas on how to improve this (be it in improving brush control or anything else).

would be to base him (or paint the base, since he's already flocked)

I fully intend to - I just didn't get round to it. Other figs will have more elaborate bases too (using the GW basing kit for accessories).

Here's a mini with a wash applied (arm, head and shoulder pad). I quite like how I managed to get relatively smooth highlights on the hand.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0254.jpg

And here's a side-by-side comparisson (washed on left, unwashed on right):
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0255.jpg

Do you think the wash is a good addition, or should I keep it "clean"?


And here's my first ever attempt at painting flames. In the pics it doesn't look too bad - I need to work on the shape of the flames themselves, but IRL the colours are quite blotchy (but perhaps this adds to the "realism" look)?
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0257.jpg

C&C on the flames would be appreciated!

I dont know if the dark legs on the one was intentional..but I like it. I think it just works..but that's just me I guess xD

Better than mine were:P great jorb so far keep it up:D

Peace

No, the dark legs weren't intentional - was experimenting with basecoats on that mini (hence there are still some mold-lines etc).


It's been suggested to me to do layered highlights to improve the look.

Since I don't want to have to mix colours too much if I can help it, do you think goblin Green will be a good transitional highlight between the Snot and the Scorpion? Or should I just 50/50 Snot/Scorpion to tie everything in neatly [and then do other mixes on Terminators and more elaborate pieces]?

I'm hoping that a layer + wash technique can mimick the blending I tried to do - I'm still fairly proud of it (I guess I shouldn't have gone back and extreme-highlighted it, wouldn't need to had I not thinned my paint so much I think). do you think I should keep going with the "blending" (on the larger highlight areas, and then simple extreme highlights on the smaller detail plates) or do everything in the 2-or-so-layer idea? Either way will have that thin-ink Glaze applied, I'm happy about how that came out (and the models will get a gloss varnish too, I think).

I would definately suggest trying out the layerring.
It really isn't as tricky as you might think, especially on fairly large surfaces like power armour.

Similarly, It's definately worth giving some mixing a try.
The problem with using 3 seperate colours (without mixing) is that they will all have different tones, as well as shades, leaving you with a somewhat odd looking finished model.
By mixing your greens (snot and scorpion, I guess), you keep the greens in the same 'key', as it were.
A simple 50/50 mix is easy to maintain across an army, too.
The wash over the top should (IMO) be done after the extreme highlights, to help tie them into the layerring, and make the model come together as one.

Another thing to think about is doing the basing before you paint the rest of the model.
I don't know about you, but for me the basing is basically always the messiest part of the model, and if I do it last I inevitably ruin the model's legs and feet...

Finally, I would suggest that you try a matte varnish, over gloss.
Gloss works well for protection, but I find that the finish doesn't really suit most models, unless it's applied as a kind of theme (ie: My daemon armies have a gloss finish, as it represent's their magical/warp-born nature...).

Just me, of course.

-t.

PS. I meant to say, dont be down on yourself, the model looks very good, and you seem to be going about things the right way to improve.
Kudos.

Thanks, Minus_t, I gave the mixing a shot and it worked out quite well. Did try some layering (before I did extreme highlights) but I do not know if it shows up in the pics - they aren't the best angles.

At the moment I am using these older models to test out my painting on - the "real" models (though these may find their way into the collection for the time being) will have the bases painted first. It's too late to assemble them seperate to the bases alas, but at least I can paint them in the right order.


Here's number 2.

These are some of the stages of painting I went through, so that you can hopefully see what I'm on about. The finished model will follow shortly, I just have to do the Gold metallics (though it looks a little naff as I ruined one leg by somehow managing to stick my thumb in the drying glaze - without realising it until just now.

Un-glazed, with pronounced highlights to look good at a distance (and I slipped so simply widened them than go back and neaten them ;))
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0264.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0267.jpg

And this is with a glaze, to soften the nature of the previous highlights.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0270.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0271.jpg


A completed pic of the whole model (and the thumb-print) will follow shortly - and showing it both up-close and at a distance, but until it appears, do you think I am on the right track - is this mini better than the last one, and can you spot areas that could do with improvement?

Obviously neatening/using thinner strokes on the highlights and working from a single-point lightsource would help - and I'll have a go on the next Marine, but what else can you suggest?

I would also really like some help on how to bring broad, flat areas (the large greaves, the forearms, the chest) to life - I tried to feather the 50/50 mix to add a bit of definition, but it got lost in the highlighting/glazing.


Ok, maybe I'm not a hopeless painter, but I would certainly like to improve, and I would appreciate it if people could keep commenting/criticising on my work - I don't get to the LGS at the moment (hours at work make it difficult, and it's a commute to the cities) so don't have anyone local to ask for pointers.

I really like bold, bright highlights and this guy has them in spades! The wash did a good job of toning them down, and you might even consider doing a second one. The helmet has some really clean, thin highlight lines and if you could replicate those on the whole model it would look great.

Overall though, this guy looks really good.

The large, flatish areas (shoulder pads, greaves etc) are my favorite bits to paint on a marine, as they give you a lot of room to play with the layers.

The best advice I can give on how to go about it (without images, as I'm not on my photoshop equipped mac atm) is:
Imagine a point of light directly above the hand holding the model. Tilt the model so that the light is where you want it to be shining (normally above, and slightly in front). You should be holding your marine somewhere around a 45º angle (probably a little more upright), with his face up.
Now, split each armour segment with imaginary horizontal lines, so that you have a number of 'segments' equal to the number of tones you want to do (ie: 3 mixes needs 2 lines).

Each segment will be filled with one of the mixes, working upwards on the model with brighter mixes.
The lines can be moved around to emphasise light or dark.

If you hold the actual model, thus aligned, under a light you should see how the light falls naturally. This is what you are trying to emulate...

Normally I tend to do something like:

––––––––––– Extreme highlight (top edge)
/ / / / Bright layer (10-15%)
/ / / / / Middle layer (20-40%)
/ / / / / Middle layer (20-40%)
/ / / / / Middle layer (20-40%)
/////////// Shade layer (40-60%)
/////////// Shade layer (40-60%)
/////////// Shade layer (40-60%)
/////////// Shade layer (40-60%)


...if you see what I mean?
Feathering the layers together obviously helps hide the transitions.
Also, you don't need extreme highlights on un-lit edges (ie: the bottom of the hand etc), IMO.

Finally, I think the most recent definately looks best, although the paint looks a bit thick and 'churned', which often happens when feathering paint that is a little too dry. It really needs to be very wet to work, as otherwise it can easily ruin the finish by forming little ruts and furrows in the drying paint. This is most noticable on the chest...

Overall, a definite improvement, keep at it =)

-t.

I would reccomend mixing a little GW Bleached Bone to soften the highlighting of the green. Being a Salamanders player, I found that little trick. They're lookin' good though.

Thanks for the tips, minus_t! Will give that a shot with this next model, as I am pondering on how to liven-up the greaves (ie, make them look 3D, not flat).

Verm1s, It appears I've been both too thick paint with too little on the brush, and too thin paint with an overlaoded brush. That pic was real helpful, thanks!

Been practicing, and here's the start of another attempt. It's basic green for now, but I tried thinning the paints, but not as much as I was before, and making sure I wiped the excess off the brush on a piece of paper towel (not so much as to cause a drybrush, but to take the 'bulge'/'bubble' out of the bristles).

But I'm not sure if I didn't thin the paint enough - this covered in 2 coats as opposed to the 4 beforehand. It also needs some cleaning up of the black lining too, forgot about that!

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/flat1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/flat3.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/flat2.jpg

What do you think - not too thick?

So obviously I've got to highlight it. I'm going to try to start with a 50/50 Snot/Scorpion green, then edge-highlight with Scorpion. Still not sure entirely how to end up getting the highlights look slick, but will have a play around.


Oh, and here's the older model with some old GW "Clear Varnish" I found - do you think the look is good, or should I try to find something more matte?
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/varnished2.jpg

I think it looks OK, but it has given a slightly bobbly texture, and I think it's shown up how jerky the highlights were. Thoughts?

The paint is a little too thick, but nowhere near the extremes that some people end up with, so thinning it down to a 3 coat coverage would probably be about right. The varnishing doesn't look too bad on the green armour as a whole, but the shoulderpads do look a little shiny. Overall though you have done a good job and have also improved throughout the thread via other members' advice, which is a good sign. I like the extreme highlighting that you've done on the figures too, although it does look slightly out of place when going around the... er.. socket? type areas in the armour. You know, the little squares that are usually on the upper thighs, can't think what to call them :S. This may be because those areas are essentially flat, whilst the other edges protrude out in various ways. Definately a good start though.

I think the figures look fine. I'd be happy seeing those across the table from me. I find that a lot of newer (including newer to certain types of models) make mistakes by overdoing it, when in reality some solid and simple technique can often look as good. The new citadel washes are excellent and really help. Find a good #1 or #2 flat brush and use the edge for your edging. It will leave a very nice crisp line and because you're using the edge, is very easy and fast.

I'll look into getting some flat brushes, thanks for the tip.

Seasonreaper, I'll try to thin the paint a little more next time. I'm not sure which layer was too thick, it might have been the Orkhide Shade (though I thinned i tit pretty much covered in 1 coat). Thanks for the tip on placing highlights though, I'll try that one tonight.

A random thought regarding highlights:

To build up from the 50/50 Snot/Scorpion mix to pure Scorpion Green, do you think I should layer (and attempt to feather the edges of) of the mix into the Snot base-coat, then extreme highlight with Scorpion, or just extreme highlight with the mix and then go over the very edges with Scorpion?

I know doing the former would be like trying to run before I can walk, but I'm not convinced I can paint thin enough lines (Scorpion Green seems to be a very...awkward paint to thin down, any amount of water seems to over-thin it - as I paint a line it seems to separate into pigment and water, no matter how little I thin it down) to do the latter, simpler method.

Another alternative, probably faster, is to edge a with scorpion green before the wash, then wash with thrakka green or badab black and call it done. Experiment a little on a test mini. This would let you clean up any mistakes and still blend your highlights in a little bit. At this point, I'd recommend not overtrying.

My method of painting Salamanders is........

2 Black undercoats. One of spray then a second from a pot.
Power armour painted "bottle green" from miniature paints. I tried dark angel green but it didn't cover too well and the bottle green was a little darker and covered fine. Get this paint into all the creases and joins of the armour plates.
Snot green painted on each armour plate leaving the darker green in the creases and joins. You need 2 or even 3 coats of this layered thinly to get a nice even finish.
Goblin green extreem hilight on armour edges particularly those edges facing upwards. I tried scorpion green but it was a bit stark and I found goblin green (or even camo green) gave a better colour jump.
Use bottle green to tidy up any creases that were accidentaly gone over. Those tiny 1mm square plates on the shin and thigh plates can be picked out here as an easier way of painting them.
Boltgun metal then chainmail on the bolter with a little badab black watered down slightly.
Chaos black to touch up the shoulder pads, gun and backpack.
Hilight black parts with an edging of iron grey from Coates d'Armes. This is a dark grey with a blue tinge to it. Mixing shadow/fenris grey with some black will also do.
Final details such as brass & gold for the eagle and any skull badges and iyanden darksun for the eyes.