Empire 2000 points tournament

[CmdrWrein]

After giving out advice here and there I thought I'd open myself up to some comments and critics. Recently I've been developping a 2000 pts, take all commers tournament empire list, to get me painting in a more focussed way.

After battles against dark elves and skaven in which I was killed mercilessly, I looked up an old tournament winning list and evolved it into the up-to-date list below. With this list I only played 1 battle so far in which I was victorious over a Tzeentch deamons army.

Empire General - 392
Griffon, full plate armour, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Power, Holy Relic.

Battle Wizard - 164 - joins knights
level 2, barded warhorse, Armour of Tarnus, Sigil of Sigmar

Battle Wizard - 130 - joins handgunners
level 2, rod of power

Warrior Priest - 144 - join greatswords
Armour of Meteoric Iron, Icon of Magnus, great weapon.

19 Greatwords - 290
Full Command, Standard of Arcane Warding
-> Detachment of 8 free company fighters

15 Flagellant - XYZ

10 Handgunners - 100
Including Marksman with Repeater Handgun

5 Pistoliers - 114
Including Outrider with Repeater Pistol

7 Knights Panther - 226
Full Command, Warbanner

1 Mortar
1 Great Cannon
1 Hellstorm Rocket Battery

The general idea is to hang back and blast away at the enemy as they advance. With one flank anchored by the infantry units, the knights and griffon can sweep around for the kill. Whilst pistoliers hunt for loose targets and are a general nuisance.

So what do you guys think. Is it any good?

[ArchonFarseerGuy]

Empire General - 392
Griffon, full plate armour, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Power, Holy Relic.
I have no experience in roving generals, sorry. If it works, I'd say go for it, especially with this increase in Herohammer-type lists showing up.


Battle Wizard - 164 - joins knights
level 2, barded warhorse, Armour of Tarnus, Sigil of Sigmar
Not too sure what to make of this guy. On one hand, he should actually survive combats when blows are inevitably sent towards him, but on the other, a Wizard in combat may not be such a good idea, and I suspect items that complement his casting ability, or a scroll or two would be a better choice.


Battle Wizard - 130 - joins handgunners
level 2, rod of power
Not a bad choice. A Power Stone would complement this if you have the points.


Warrior Priest - 144 - join greatswords
Armour of Meteoric Iron, Icon of Magnus, great weapon.
If you're going to be facing DEs, DoC, and VCs, then the VHS might be a better choice here. Maybe if you also gave him the Sigil of Sigmar, then retooled your mounted Battle Wizard?


19 Greatwords - 290
Full Command, Standard of Arcane Warding
-> Detachment of 8 free company fighters
Looks alright. I like my shooting Detachments, as they can do more than shoot. I use them to redirect charges etc as well.


15 Flagellant - XYZ
Nice little tarpit.


10 Handgunners - 100
Including Marksman with Repeater Handgun
The Hochland Long Rifle is generally a more popular choice, as you can pick out unit champions and wizards. The Rptr Handgun does complement his unit better, though.


5 Pistoliers - 114
Including Outrider with Repeater Pistol
Need a Musician.


7 Knights Panther - 226
Full Command, Warbanner


1 Mortar
1 Great Cannon
1 Hellstorm Rocket Battery
A lethal little collection. If you want to control a bit of ground, the Helblaster would make a good addition/replacement to something.


The general idea is to hang back and blast away at the enemy as they advance. With one flank anchored by the infantry units, the knights and griffon can sweep around for the kill. Whilst pistoliers hunt for loose targets and are a general nuisance.

So what do you guys think. Is it any good?
Whilst this is a very good idea in theory, it seems that your centre would be rather weak. My guess is that you lost to DEs and Skaven by being outmanoeuvred?

Overall, not a bad list, but my main concern is that you seem a bit character-heavy, and I think your units do suffer a little for it. Maybe if your general was given a horse and went into the Knights unit? Just a thought, really.

Hope this helps:).

-AFG//

[Shai'Tan]

Generally speaking your list looks quite fine, but I would suggest the following for the tactics you mention.

Drop the priest (just to save points)

Change greatswords for spearmen (hopefully points enought for 2 units) This will make your center stronger

Maybe swap pistoliers and knights for 2 units of outriders, the minimal extra cost i well worth it for the extra shootiness, imo. I think your general is strong enough to hold his own.

Instead of losing the knights maybe put general on horse to get that "look out sir." The heavy hitting should be your firebase, not cc.

I would swap mortar for another cannon and helstorm for helblaster, but that really is just a matter of taste.

As you would notice I like to field twos of the units. This I find to be very strong, so that even if you lose one unit, you still have one more (2x wizzie, 2x spearmen, 2x cannon, 2x outriders). Besides nothing gives you the thrill like two precise cannon shots pr. round into a nice big unit of chosen chaos warriors... (well basically into everything now that I come to think of it)

[saltrock36]

Iv had a go with the general on griffon with mixed success. At first he is a big liability if you dont hide him about and use him only in combination with other units and against enemy war machines. it is why i went for a captain on pegasus instead and took an arch lector general, but if you content on the guy on griffon he looks fine.

In this case i would wither have 2 units of chep knights or spring for one big unit of 10 inner circle. you will need this in combination with your lord who should be charging enemy units at the same time to roll up flanks or take out ranks with his unit strength 5.

Drop the greatswords for either spearmen or the prefered option swordsmen. they will end up the same price of spearmen with shields except +5pts on command, and get WS4, and a 4+ save in close combat. use these as your anvil if you must, and this is a great place to put your priest if you keep him. support with free company as you have doe so with the greatswords. try and get two units as mentioned already.

fo shooty units take the hochland wehn you can. taking out war machine crew and unit champions (specialy daemon heralds) from a distance can win a game in itself.

Not a fan of the mortar in the game due to its low strength. either take another great cannon or use the points to grab some more flagelants, knights, upgrades etc.

Although i like the hellstrom, hellblaster may proove all that more usefull especialy if your taking handgunners, creating a 24" kill zone.

[CmdrWrein]

First of all, thanks for the advice guys.

However some of the suggestions will bring me back to the list I used to play against the Dark Elves and Skaven (list posted below). The Dark Elves became a meat grinder, which they eventually won. But it was a close call. Against the Skaven I made a first turn tactical error which meant he could blast away my pistoliers in the first magic phase. After this I was outshot, which I aknowledge to late.

I’m aware that my general is a big chunk of points. However once you get the hang of using him. A griffon general is a real force to be reconned with. Besides, in my opinion any empire lord on steed should be a grandmaster. For deployment with knights he is just way better. However, I have this deficiency that he should then be in at least a unit of 9 inner circle knights (for which I hardly have the special slots).

I know my centre is weak due to the low number of units. However swapping them for swordsmen/spearmen is exactly where I came from. Large units, without special rules which help keep them in place. The 2 blocks I now have will stay instead of run as my spearmen/swordsmen generally do. This is actually why my priest has this equipment. Keeping my stubborn unit immune to fear, which I think any stubborn unit should be made. And somehow I never get a 3rd large block in anyway (which might be a flaw of my army design I will need to lose).
As for the detachments, I love those 5 men archer ones. But this list just didn’t spare me any points. And I generally prefer having at least 1 combat detachment with each block.

The Pistoliers do have a musician already (my bad)

My usual artilery train was: 2 cannons, 1 mortar, 1 hellblaster, but recently my hellblaster failed me quite a bit and the hellstorm performed great in a few try-outs. Hence the swap. And due to the greatswords one special slot one of the 3 guns had to go. I opted for versatility. Though this is one of the points were I might going to miss my second cannon. (Yes, I like firing my cannons as well)

I never saw the point in outriders. High movement and move-or-fire weapons? In addition to high cost ( 1 outrider only slightly cheaper then 3 handgunners), they take up a Special Slot, which are crammed already.
Which bring me to the hochland long rifle. Everybody seems to be lyrical about them, but I never found them any use. The only time they actually did something for me was when I crammed 6 of them in a 1000 pts army. And even then… No really not a fan, I’d rather have the 3 shots (whilst saving a little space).

I’ll see what I can come up with and how it works for me a list with:
è Horseback mounted general
è Try get 2nd cannon and hellblaster in
è 2 wizards on foot
è Maybe swap back to 2 large infantry blocks besides flagellants. Though I’m not convinced on this point.



Previous list

Empire General – 187 – joins swordsmen
Full plate, holy relic, enchanted shield, sword of power

Captain – 133 – joins spearmen
Army standard, full plate, shroud of magnus

Battle Wizard – 145 – joins handgunners
Level 2, rod of power, sigil of sigmar

Battle Wizard - 160 - joins knights/pistoliers
Warhorse, Armour of tarnus, crystal ball

24 Swordsmen – 297
Full Command, Standard of Arcane Warding
è Detachment: 10 free company fighters
è Detachment: 6 archers

28 Spearmen – 244
Full Command, shields,
è Detachment: 10 halberdiers
10 Handgunners – 100 – used twice
Marksman with repeater handgun

5 Pistoliers – 114
Musician and Outrider with Repeater pistol

5 Knight Panther – 131
Preceptor

Hellblaster Volley Gun
2 Great Cannon
Mortar

[GMJoeSolarte]

I'd drop the Pistolers for Huntsmen, as you technically get more out of it that your Knight Panthers don't provide. Even if you decide not to use their special deployment you can at least get the extra long range shots, where you are kinda light.