Greatswords in a gunline army?

[sanity_is_weak]

hey guys along time ago I inherited a empire army for dirt cheap and I have been playing high elves for a very long time now but they are starting to bore me. I love the rules and the models for the empire and particularly greatswords and was wondering if they have a place in a competitive empire gunline army and if so how do you guys tend to field them?

[Sliver]

They can work quite well as a flank guard unit, or a good strong CC unit to bounce your opponent when they get to you. A unit of 15 (as a minimum) with full command works quite well.

[sanity_is_weak]

our gaming group has a huge 10,000 point battle coming up this weekend 2v2 so 5k a piece and I was considering running a group of 20+ greatswords with a config that looked something like this:

20+greatswords
cmd
valor (using karl franz also)

captain
bsb
griffon banner
fullplate
barded warhorse

archlector
armor of meteoric iron
shroud
icon

I dont really have any idea on how to make greatswords a powerhouse unit or even if they can be so any help would be appreciated.

[Zema]

I have a gunline army with a block of swordsmen and a block of greatswords, they are good, but you have to have the charge with them: the low Empire stats + strike last do not a good defensive unit make.

[CmdrWrein]

I kindly have to disagree with Zema. I use a 20 men greatswords unit as well in my army and they are made to take the charge and hold their ground. For this stubborn is really good especially combined with the icon of magnus (a must in my opinion). In the long run you might not win the combat, but the unit will be tied up a long time. Giving you time to smack into the enemies flank with a unit that will make you win the combat.

The banner of valor is an oke addition I think, but I personally prefer the standard of arcane warding.

I think that in the unit you propose the BSB with Griffon Standard is overkill however. I'd rather have this guy in a big unit of swordsmen (25) to make my second defensive unit. The greatsword are stubborn (don't care about the combar result penalty). The swordsmen however do and can usually really use the additional +3 CR. Just make sure the BSB is within 12" of the greatswords. In the unfortunate event the stubborn break test is failed you can re-roll.

[ArchonFarseerGuy]

I kindly have to disagree with Zema. I use a 20 men greatswords unit as well in my army and they are made to take the charge and hold their ground. For this stubborn is really good especially combined with the icon of magnus (a must in my opinion). In the long run you might not win the combat, but the unit will be tied up a long time. Giving you time to smack into the enemies flank with a unit that will make you win the combat.
I prefer not to run gunlines myself (admittedly I have on occasion, but in small games), but I agree with this. If I were to use a gunline in, say, 2250 points, I'd use a unit each of Greatswords and Flaggies. If you get the charge from either, great, if not, they can hold the line pretty well, at least for a few turns.

[GMJoeSolarte]

well, if you mean gunline in having an empire army that generally stays back, lets the enemy come to them and blasts away with war machines, handgunners, crossbows, and such, then yes your great swords can be a big difference maker, if you have them in a position where the bulk of the enemy attack is going to hit them first. If you are using your detachments properly, it should make all the difference having Great Swords in them.

[CaptainSarathai]

Remember that it pays to have parent units to give detachment units to. In a gunline army, you can run those 20 Greatswords with two, 10-man hangunner detachments and still get off some nasty shooting. If anything, it makes your gunline even more effective since it gives everybody a stand and shoot. Of course, if you're a cheesehead like me, you can give handgunner regiments handgunner detachments, and watch your opponent cringe when you hit him with 40 S&S shots from a hilltop.
Unit = vaped.

[Zema]

If you get the charge from either, great, if not, they can hold the line pretty well, at least for a few turns.

Well, the problem is that against a lot of enemies, greatswords are not that great: chaos warriors, orks they just lack quality, against VC and other hordes you'll get far, but they get bogged down very easily.

Greatswords are not bad perse, but like everything Empire, they are just very much mediocre.

[SlayerofAsmodean]

if you run greatswords, watch out for fear.

[Zema]

if you run greatswords, watch out for fear.

True, but that's relevant for all Empire units, basic Ld7 isn't great, it's really crap as a matter of fact, a nice included warrior priest or BSB does wonders.

[CmdrWrein]

I found that loosing Stubborn units to fear is always a lot more annoying than you average empire unit. Even though your mediocore Ld, stubborn gives you a decent change to make it even when loosing the combat. An fear suddenly gives you an auto-fail. So my greatswords never leave home without the icon of magnus.

[Zema]

I found that loosing Stubborn units to fear is always a lot more annoying than you average empire unit. Even though your mediocore Ld, stubborn gives you a decent change to make it even when loosing the combat. An fear suddenly gives you an auto-fail. So my greatswords never leave home without the icon of magnus.

A bsb with the anti-panic banner with swordsmen, the icon of magnus on a WP in the greatswords. That ought to make it a little more difficult on my fear causing opponents!