Are CD competative?

[Ritchie]

Hey thinking of starting chaos dwarfs... love the slave fluff, and the whole turning to stone because of there use of magic... anyway!

was wondering how competitive they are, even though they are INCREDIBLE old. In Australia they are still a tier 2 army (that's 2/3, so pretty standard).

Also was wondering exactly how blunderbusses work... is it everyone within the 12 inches in front of the unit hit on a 4+, or does it get as many shots as there are models in the front rank, then extra strength added on per rank.

For example:

11111111
11111111 1= chaos dwarf blunderbuss
11111111 2= enemy

222
222

If the enemy is within 12 inches (all of them) do they all get hit, each model, on a 4+, at strength 5? or do they get hit 3 times from the front rank of dwarfs at strength 5

thanks guys

[Rising Leviathan]

Well on the first question I have to say I don't think they're really competive as in many tournies and the like, Chaos Dwarfs are banned or not legal to use due to te fact that their "army book" if you can call it an army book at all, is very old and with rules that are not up to date.

I would have no problems facing a CD army, but I think a lot of people would have trouble to fight an army with no real rules set.

Regards,

[Perturabo]

Every model within the 12" takes one hit, strength depending on the number of ranks in the BB unit. That's why they're not great against multi-wound models like Ogres or monsters.

Good to see another convert!

[omfganinja]

Actually they're very competitive in spite of the lack of updates. Some reasons might be the fact that as it is so old, it has a couple things that have since gone out of style in it. An example would be that you can have fast cav hobgoblins that don't lose fast cav for having light armor and shield.

Secondly, it's not that they're banned from tournaments. Quite the contrary in fact, most tournaments allow them. They were legal in US GTs until this year, but they're only not legal now because US GTs don't exist anymore.

And on blunderbusses, you roll a d6 for every enemy model in the fire zone. Therefore even if you have a hundred blunderbussers shooting at that giant, you still only get to roll one die and do one wound. That said, you can also totally ream multiple units if you line up your shot right.


I actually just won a tournament with chaos dwarfs about two weeks ago. I beat up Ogres, Warriors of Chaos, and Demons along the way. I also have been faring very well against Vampires and all flavors of elf.

[Ritchie]

Every tourney in australia allows them to be played. This is because we stopped having GT's about THREE FRECKEN YEARS AGO! really annoying. anyway, there perfectly legal and its good to see there being played etc :) I'll post up a possible list and see what you guys reckon? Will have to be tomorrow cause im kinda busy thanks guys

[danceman]

Same, legal in swedish tournaments as well. CD are fairly competitive but a very different army, most of the army is slow, the rest normal speed and finally some cavalry. The only real way to get people to turn their heads on you would be to bring 2 earthshakers, tons of magic and alot of shooting. This list isnt particularly fun to face but in a die-hard tournament this is fine, in a comped tournament I'd drop one of the earthshakers and some magic levels.

Short answer, yes! CD are still a viable army.

[omfganinja]

The list I usually run looks a little something like this.

1 Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lord, 2 Dispel Scrolls, Level 4
1 Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer, Power Stone, Level 2
1 Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer, Power Stone, Level 2
1 Chaos Dwarf Hero, Battle Standard Bearer, Armor of Gazrakh

19 Chaos Dwarf Warriors, Full Command, War Banner
19 Chaos Dwarf Warriors, Full Command
15 Chaos Dwarf Warriors, Blunderbuss
15 Chaos Dwarf Warriors, Blunderbuss
10 Hobgoblins
13 Hobgoblins
10 Hobgoblins, Bows, Wolves, Light Armor, Shields

2 Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers
2 Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers
1 Death Rocket
5 Black Orcs, Shields

1 Earthshaker
8 Bull Centaurs, Heavy Armor, Full Command

[Ritchie]

Hey mate looks like a solid list with a good mix of line units, shooting, distracters and screens. However it would probable get comp hit hard over here because of the war machines and magic. So i was thinking of going with a level 4, a level 2, a bull centaur hero and then a BSB.

With the warmachines im not really a fan of the death rocket, of course iv never played with one so its just idle speculation.

And I wouldnt mind some more slaves! just for holding quaters, and redirecting troops... so I think ill take your list and tweak it, and see how it goes?

thanks for the advice guys ill make a list now

[omfganinja]

You could easily cut the death rocket if you were worried about composition hits. It's definitely the weakest link in the shooting configuration, though every once in a while it does some pretty serious damage. I would say every three rounds, you get a game where it single-handedly wins you the game and two games where it does absolutely nothing. You could replace it with hobgoblins with bows if you wanted to keep your shooting strong.

I really, REALLY feel that the three wizards is necessary though. You don't have a snowball's chance in Hell against things like Epidemius-fueled demons without them, and you need the magic defense against armies like Vampire Counts as well.

[Ritchie]

ok how about this... remember that here in australia a gun line is HATED for some reason. And it still has the solid block you have in yours, its just... im a massive fan of hob gobbos! so i added in 3 units of 20, the idea being if i can get the general in range, or the bsb as well, they can basicly hold for several turns while my other units engage in there flanks.

with the bull centauars... why 8? i was thinking either 10 or just a unit of 6...

I cut the power stones out, just to make sure the magic isnt to heavy... remember people in Australia for some reason think anything over 10 PD is to much don't understand why myself.

The shooting is still decent, 4 bolties and an earth shaker isnt terrable, as well as 20 bow shots and the 2 units of blunderbuss's for short range bang.

I was thinking of adding another unit of wolf riders, so i have a super fast flank on one side and use a mix of slaves and CD to refuse the other flank. more tips please!

1 Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lord, 2 Dispel Scrolls, Level 4 275
1 Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer, Level 2 100
1 Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer, Level 2 100
1 Chaos Dwarf Hero, Battle Standard Bearer, Armor of Gazrakh 115

20 Chaos Dwarf Warriors, Full Command, War Banner 235
20 Chaos Dwarf Warriors, Full Command 210
15 Chaos Dwarf Warriors, Blunderbuss 180
15 Chaos Dwarf Warriors, Blunderbuss 180
20 Hobgoblins 40
20 Hobgoblins 40
20 hobgoblins 40 (not to sure about the number of hob gobbos ill be using in the army, I like the idea of 40 points generating a decent amount of combat res, and if my general is in range they go up to LD 10. add the BSB re roll and its a 40 point unit which can hold really well)

10 hobgoblins 50
bows

10 Hobgoblins, Bows, Wolves, Light Armor, Shields 160
special
2 Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers 60
2 Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers 60
rare
1 Earthshaker 110
6 bull centaurs heavy armour, full command 171

I have 124 points left over to spend on something.

[omfganinja]

If you want to get static combat resolution from your hobgoblins, you could give them shields. A 5+ in close combat might not seem like much, but when you're as easy to murder as a bunch of hobgoblins it goes a long way. Even if it only saves you a casualty or two, that's the different between trying to make leadership at -2 and at -4. That's huge.

[Ritchie]

I guess I want to use the slaves in thesame way that skaven do... as either flankers or unfortunate holders, if I use my leadership and BSB correctly. I'll proxy an army up and see how they go, I'm looking forward to converting them up!

[Ritchie]

So i found an EXCELLENT site today for converting chaos dwarfs out of battle for skull pass dwarfs, if you havn;t seen it.. check it out!

Video Guide to Converting BFSP Chaos Dwarfs - Chaos Dwarfs Online (http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/guide1.php)

[Perturabo]

So i found an EXCELLENT site today for converting chaos dwarfs out of battle for skull pass dwarfs, if you havn;t seen it.. check it out!

Video Guide to Converting BFSP Chaos Dwarfs - Chaos Dwarfs Online (http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/guide1.php)

That's what inspired me to start converting an army of Dawi Zhar. I have a blog here and on that site.

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[Trouser Tyrant]

Well, Magic in this edition of the rules is what gives most army the winning edge, and I should know about that as I normally play Daemons and almost all the people I play against play Vampire Counts, with this being said, Chaos Dwarfs can shut down magic without even trying. I find when I field them, I spam heroes and give them the Chalice of Darkness and take all of the Power Dice from the other player. Also, to make matters worse (Or better in your favor) is that you can field a lvl 2 wizard with the Chalice for I think 150 points, and the Wizard has a dwarf stat-line. I find I have no problem crushing undead armies. Against any army that isn't Skaven or Daemons you have more then a good chance at winning.