Returning Dwarf Player 2000pts

[Royal_Marine_Machine]

Ok I'm going into a campaign or tournament or something soon (dunno whats happening atm, filling in for someone, it's in a week or so) so I've had to put together a 2000 Pts Force, but everyone who has a look at this, heed these words:
I CANNOT CHANGE THE MODELS, JUST THEIR CONFIGURATION AND EQUIPMENT (EXCEPT FOR SHIELDS ETC.)

Ok, witht hat over, heres the list:

Lords
Dwarf Lord
Shield
Master Rune of Smiting
Rune of Cleaving
Master Rune of Gromil
---- 263 Pts ----

Heroes
Thane
Shield
Rune Of Fury
Rune Of Cleaving
---- 112 Pts ----
Would love to make this guy a BSB but I haven't got the model yet

Rune smith
Spell Eater Rune
Rune of Spell Breaking
---- 145 Pts ----

Master Engineer
Great Weapon
---- 74 Pts ----

Core Units

13 x Warriors
Shields
Full Command
---- 142 Pts ----

13 x Long Beards
Shields
Full Command
---- 181 Pts ----

20 x Quarrellers
Great Weapons Hell Yeah ;)
Full Command
---- 285 Pts ----

10 x Thunderers
Full Command
---- 165 Pts ----

10 x Thunderers
Musician
Veteran
---- 155 Pts ----

Special Units
Cannon
---- 90 Pts ----

Cannon
---- 90 Pts ----

Bolt Thrower
---- 45 Pts ----

8 x Miners
Full Command
---- 113 Pts ----

Rare
Flame Cannon
---- 140 Pts ----


Total: 2000 Pts.

Plan:
Find a hill. Sit on it. Blow up anything coming towards me! warriors on the flanks Quarrellers in the centre. If there is no Hill, cannons on the flanks, slightly exposed I know but a couple of shots on the flanks of enemy units will cause alot of damage! Warriors to protect cannons, Quarrellers to the front again, Thunderers, flame cannon, and bolt thrower behind firing past them. Try to panic most of their major units, or at least inflict enough casualties to dramatically reduce their close combat ability. Any fellow shooting armies will hopefully not be able to stand up to dwarven ranged might.

Thoughts?

Another Reminder that I cannot change the models!

[TheSaxon]

I think you may benefit from dropping some quarrelers or thunderers and beefing up your melee units. If you get some hard-hitting or fast-fitting troops into your lines(which can be beefy in this size game), it might get messy. I would think at least 15-17 in each would be preferable.

[Turtle Master]

Just a few suggestions for you.

Dwarf Lord
Shield
Master Rune of Smiting
Rune of Cleaving
Master Rune of Gromil
Is it possible to give this guy shieldbearers? If he can you defenitely need to put him on them. With shieldbearers and just a rune of stone he already has a 1+ armour save and is immune to killing blow. :) Then you can think about a MR of steel or a MR of spite and that's his protection done. I'll leave his offense up to you ;). Also with the current set up the shield is useless - he already has a 1+ armour save, it cannot be improved.

Thane
Shield
Rune Of Fury
Rune Of Cleaving
Looks good, just add a MR of swiftness and/or a rune of stone at the very least. That will give him a decent 2+ armour save.

Rune smith
Spell Eater Rune
Rune of Spell Breaking
The R of spellbreaking is good, but a MR of balance is much better and more reliable than a spell eater rune. He also needs a shield.

Master Engineer
Great Weapon
I normally use a brace of pistols but this works just as well, sometimes even better.


13 x Warriors
Shields
Full Command
Perfect, the only thing i can say is it possible to boost these guys up to 20?

13 x Long Beards
Shields
Full Command
Same here.

20 x Quarrellers
Great Weapons
It's just my opinion but i prefer the 4+ armour save over the S5. I have seen people who use Quarrellers just with great weapons all the time. They can work, it's just up to pesonal preference. I think FC is OKAY on these guys cos they are in a unit of 20.

10 x Thunderers
Full Command
With these guys the FC is a waste and a free 100 victory points to your opponent. I suggest giving these guys shields for the 4+ and a musician, a champion at the most, but defenitely not a standard.

10 x Thunderers
Musician
Veteran
These guys are alright i suppose, they just need shields.

Cannon
This needs a rune of forging.

Cannon
This a rune of forging and a rune of burning to keep the rune rules happy. It's a shame you can't use any different models, a grudge thrower is the best war machine IMO.

Bolt thrower
This needs an engineer at the very least, and a rune of penetration if you can squeeze it in.

8 x Miners
Full Command
Not much to say here, i actually don't use miners.

Flame cannon
Can't help you here either, but as you can't change it it doesn't matter.

Just some suggestions and i hope they help!

[Royal_Marine_Machine]

With respect, you've both missed my first condition of this list.
In future, I request that you make such statements in a more polite manner. -AFG//

Why have you both suggested beefing up my Melee Units? I can't I'm using all the Warriors I have, isn't the writing big enough?

Same point with the shield bearers, the shield on the Runesmith, and the Engineer, the Full Command on the thunderers as well...

Guys isn't it bleeding big enough?


If I gave all the Warmachines Runes then I would have to drop some of my Thunderers and Quarrellers, which are vital to my Plan. SO I'm not prepared to do that.

Thanks for the suggestions, but please read the whole thread first.... Both of You.

[Turtle Master]

What is the point of even posting up your list if you cannot change anything? Quite frankly, if you don't want to put runes on your warmachines its your loss. You may as well have just posted up your 4 heroes, and even with them you seem reluctant to drop existing runes in place of much better ones - MR of balance being an example.

[Zarahemna]

OK, gently now.

First, yes I agree, it is a little unwise to criticise those who have taken some of the their precious time to comment on a list and try to help you out. Vice versa it is equally unwise to call someone a name because they display impatience or irritation. Just let it go and everyone can have a good time.

As for the list. It is ok, but you can do better. Part of the hobby is realising that you can play with the models that you have but that you can probably optimise the list by getting models that you don't currently have. You did indicate that you wanted a BSB so its not rude to assume that you can make some small changes here and there.

13 is a really awkward unit size. Ranks need to be 5 models across and this gives you two and a bit. Not good. Combine those two units into one unit of 25? Better. Now you have 5 full ranks which means you can lose 5 models before you start eating into that precious rank bonus.

If you need another core unit break the larger shooting unit into two units of ten and keep them as far back as possible. They need all the time they can get to shoot people.

What sort of advice beyond this were you looking for?

[Turtle Master]

Yeah, my bad. I had three exams today, not feeling that great...

[Royal_Marine_Machine]

The Army List rules say that you should live with model limitations. so don't call me a jackass because you are incredibly unobservant, I deliberately put it in massive letters at the top, so that people would notice that I have Model Limitations, but hey most people seem to have ignored that, and told me to boost the size of my Melee units regardless - Frankly not reading the massive letters in size 5 and giving me useless advice is rude, so my response was justified.

I considered combining the two Melee units, but if I have two then that's one of each cannon which will be on the flanks, I'm trying to get an extra model each to make them both up to 14 so there's 3 ranks if I put a hero in, I used to use them as one unit and they got tied up by one enemy unit every time, so I prefer to have 2 - thanks for the useful feedback though.

Also I know that part of the hobby is trying to optimise your force by getting more models, I however do not have the time (again explained in the op) to buy more models as I have to paint them all in a short amount of time.

[King Ulrik Flamebeard]

Royal_Marine_Machine - You are being quite rude to those attempting to help you. You have stated that you are unable to alter your list, but this is quite short sighted in that the inability to alter your list also means that any suggestions that people make, other than runic combinations are pointless. Is this your entire collection? And are you unable to buy some more miniatures? These two would help, then people could suggest options for you to expand your army and make it more flexible in your choices available.

Your method to communicate you inability to alter almost anything in this list has been rude and inappropriate. Thus, I have reported it to the moderators. In the future, please be a bit more polite with your replies, it will increase you chances of a decent reply.

Kuffy

[Quannum]

With respect, you've both missed my first condition of this list.
In future, I request that you make such statements in a more polite manner. -AFG//

Why have you both suggested beefing up my Melee Units? I can't I'm using all the Warriors I have, isn't the writing big enough?

Same point with the shield bearers, the shield on the Runesmith, and the Engineer, the Full Command on the thunderers as well...

Guys isn't it bleeding big enough?


If I gave all the Warmachines Runes then I would have to drop some of my Thunderers and Quarrellers, which are vital to my Plan. SO I'm not prepared to do that.

Thanks for the suggestions, but please read the whole thread first.... Both of You.

Wow! What a chumpish response, learn some manners kid...

I'd have to say, as a seasoned Dwarf player myself, that Turtle Master absolutely nailed all the areas of your list that need changing. But, I can see that you don't have the model supply.

I'd start by changing the heroes just as he suggested, then assess how many points you need to trim. If you aren't willing to drop things, then there's no point posting.

As a side note, I'd rather have ONE cannon with Rune of Forging than two without.

Q

[Royal_Marine_Machine]

Seeing as this was done a while ago and is pretty much dead now, I have been told off by two or three moderators and I have said I will not do so in the future.

I don't appreciate being called a Kid, but I'm not even going to bother defending myself because I just can't be bothered atm.