Str 7 using Sword of Heroes rules lawyering?

[MobiusPrime]

The Sword of Heroes says:
"Against enemies that have Toughness 5 or greater, the bearer gets +1 Strength and each unsaved wound cased by the Sword of Heroes becomes D3 wounds rather than 1."

Does this mean if I have a character with the Sword of Heroes, and a Lance - I would get +2 Str on the charge, and an additional +1 if the enemy is T5 or higher. In subsequent rounds of combat, when the character uses the Sword, he would then do D3 wounds rather than one?

This is ambiguously written just as badly as whether or not a virtue takes up magic points allowance.

[no1cafc]

The Sword of Heroes is a magic weapon so you cant use and mundane weapon you have (so there is no point buying one), you have to use the sword and only the sword.

From the mini rulebook, page 121 under magic weapons.

'A character that has a magic close combat weapon cannot use any other close combat weapons although he can carry a shield as normal.'

[kithre]

Bretonnians have a diofferent rule where they use only the lance on the charge, then revert to using their magical weapons...

You don't benefit from the sword when you charge - the bearer is only bearing the sword if he is using it, and he doesn't use it when he charges with a lance. I wouldn't bother buying it TBH

[Lemonchild]

This is ambiguously written just as badly as whether or not a virtue takes up magic points allowance.

It's not ambiguous in the slightest. You have to be using the sword to receive it's benefits. That's a basic rule.

[Undivided]

Originally Posted by no1cafe
The Sword of Heroes is a magic weapon so you cant use and mundane weapon you have (so there is no point buying one), you have to use the sword and only the sword.

From the mini rulebook, page 121 under magic weapons.

'A character that has a magic close combat weapon cannot use any other close combat weapons although he can carry a shield as normal.'

Ah but u can have a lance and the sword of heros you just can't use both at the same time (thats cheating) however at the start of each INDEPENDANT combat he is in he may choose which one to use. So it he isn't fighting a monster a lance would be the way to go.

Apart from that no1cafe is totally right =P

[DarKnife]

Bretonnians have a diofferent rule where they use only the lance on the charge, then revert to using their magical weapons.

Is this true? In what part of the rulebook/army book?

[Undivided]

I'm a warhammer vet and a bretonnian player never has that been the case. U have to CHOOSE WHICH weapon you are using at the beginning of each different combat.

[Rork]

Is this true? In what part of the rulebook/army book?

This is covered by the Bretonnian army book. It's in the preamble to their magic item section, I believe.

And there has been far too much textspeak in this thread. The word some people are looking for is 'you'.

[GMJoeSolarte]

The Sword of Heroes is a magic weapon so you cant use and mundane weapon you have (so there is no point buying one), you have to use the sword and only the sword.

From the mini rulebook, page 121 under magic weapons.

'A character that has a magic close combat weapon cannot use any other close combat weapons although he can carry a shield as normal.'

Well he could buy a lance, if he wanted it as a back up weapon. For example, if he is going up against something that the sword's power is not as effective against, if the Sword is destroyed by the enemy via magic items, or if the +2 lance on a charge is more effective then the Sword.

[VampireCabbage]

Actually the rule from the top of the magic items section in the bretts book is:

a character with a magical weapon and a normal lance will Always use the lance when charging and then use the magic weapon in the second and subsequent rounds of combat. a character with a magical lance will always use it (including subsequent rounds)

So you don't really get a choise in the matter. If you have a magic weapon + normal lance, when charging you use the lance. If you are charged (the rule doesn't specify about being charged so therefore the BRB ruling applies here which is if you have a magic weapon you automatically use it in preference to the mundane weapon), or in the second+ round of combat, then you use the magic weapon

[kithre]

I'm a warhammer vet and a bretonnian player never has that been the case. U have to CHOOSE WHICH weapon you are using at the beginning of each different combat.


a character with a magical weapon and a normal lance will Always use the lance when charging and then use the magic weapon in the second and subsequent rounds of combat. a character with a magical lance will always use it (including subsequent rounds)

See the above post from Vampire cabbage and reread your Bret army book. I have never played as Brets and I still know this key and core rule...(they are the only army to my knowledged with this exception)

[warhammer madman]

Picture the scene

The village is burning a dragon is overhead. Duke Frances Skink slayer (so far my duke has only been hurt in many ways, his only kills have been 10 skinks) rides his hippogryph in with his magic sword of dragon slaying. However the lady says "no you cant use that, here have a pointy stick" "But the sword of dragon slaying will kill a dragon better than a pointy stick" reply's the duke. "No you use the stick or no blessings for you!" "ok then".

Later that day the Duke lays on his death bed burnt all over missing his sword arm.

The moral of the story is dont pay 2pts for a lance Ever!

sorry a little of topic just made me laugh!:D

[GMJoeSolarte]

wasn't aware of that rule then. Does not make a lot of sense, I always thought it was totally optional. For example, if you are fighting an etheral Wraith, for example, your NOT going to use the lance against it you are going to use your magic sword.

[Ravenar]

The thing about it is, if you give your character the Grail Vow (does not count against magic item points total) then that normal lance becomes a magical attack... which I guess is what GW was thinking when making this rule.

The magic lance rule is on page 60 at the very top.

[MobiusPrime]

I think you are misjudging my intent of the rules laywering.

I understand the rules for Bretonnians who fight with lances and magic weapons.
What I meant is if the +1 str a constant buff against T5 enemies, vice a buff that only applies when using the weapon.
This is similar to the Virtue of Audacity. It doesn't matter what weapon you weild - if the enemy has a higher Strength than your knight, you get the re-rolls.

My argument was that the wording for the Sword of Heroes seems that it is a constant buff - fight a T5 or higher enemy, and you get +1 Strength. Additionally when you are using the Sword (as opposed to your lance), you deal D3 wounds.

Thoughts?

[Digger]

weapons only give their buff if you actually wield them in the fight. there is no constant buff of d3 wounds etc, it just wouldnt make any sense! (as cochran would say: Look at the silly monkey!)

just like banners wont work if theyre not in the fighting rank, a weapon's str bonus only applies when the weapon is the actual wielded weapon. Same goes for shields, they dont give bonusses if you use a great weapon.

i dont see a way to exploit it as a constant buff. The weapons rules section in the BRB states you have to choose which weapon you use at the start of each fight, this magic item doesnt say it overrides that rule

[Rork]

My argument was that the wording for the Sword of Heroes seems that it is a constant buff - fight a T5 or higher enemy, and you get +1 Strength. Additionally when you are using the Sword (as opposed to your lance), you deal D3 wounds.

Thoughts?

You only get the benefits of a magic weapon if you're using it, simple as that. You can't claim the benefits of a weapon you're not using.

You'll find that most magic weapons have similarly "vague" descriptions. But really, no weapon = no benefit.

[kithre]

Wielder is the clue - the wield benefits from the "buff" (hate that word). Just carrying a sword of Heroes doesn't benefit you any - its not the talisman of heroes or amulet of heroes or armour of heroes - its the sword of heroes, and gets you an increased strength when facing off against tough enemies when you use it to hit them...

Weapons are weaker in this condition than say an armour like armour of the gods (a now obsolete magic item from 6th edition for High Elves) - where the weaere gets +1 strength and THEN gets the benefits of their magical weapons on top of that, as the armour increases the wearer's strength, not the weapon.

Anmd teh Bretonnian lance rule is simple - Bretonnians are the ONLy army that can pick a lance and magic weapon and use both (circumstances depending) and hence the down side is that they MUST use a lance if equipped with one when they charge...