Sick tactic with sisters and marines

[Epidemic4774]

Yesterday I heard of a tactic that some sisters of battle player was using in a tournament. I don't know exactly what he used for most of his stuff but the things that pretty much screamed sick to me was playing a generic space marine army and then taking sisters as allies and having Vulkan hestan in your army so that all flamer, heavy flamers , meltas ,and multi-meltas become twin-linked. That combined with the fact that sisters weapons become ap1 on a 6 is just so awesome and wrong. Also if you didn't know he also makes thunder hammers master-crafted, just throwing that in there. What do you guys think about this tactic, have you seen it anywhere?

[Wraith]

Yeah, using Vulkan alongside some Sisters has been one of the potential tricks that people have been drooling over - the most burny army out there, coupled with a character that makes things just that much more burny?? Yes, please!!

Potentially very powerful, but the extreme short range and a lack of enough power to reliably crack troops with heavy armour makes it a rather risky one, too. To make the most of it you need to load up on flamers, so you're at a big disadvantage when you're at any sort of range, especially against shooty armies!

[Lia]

That's quite an abuse of a rule bad choice of wording... It's quite obvious that "Chapter Tactics" Only apply to space marines units.

Anyone trying to even argue that this rule be applied to allied armies is definitely trying to cheat, the wording might be a bit unspecific when they use the words "your army" but it's quite obvious it's meant to be for space marines units only.

Just my two cents, but if someone was trying to pull that on on me i would grab my army and go play someone else. (Possibly after having force fed the offender his/her army.)

[A.T.]

That's quite an abuse of a rule bad choice of wording... It's quite obvious that "Chapter Tactics" Only apply to space marines units.
IIRC Vulcan's rules are such that any model in the army gets the advantages, space marine, sister, or otherwise - intended i'm sure to allow vehicles to benefit from it.

[jy2]

This has already been discussed in a previous post in the Space Marines forum. IIRC, the consensus was that if you're a space marine army who takes sister allies, then you can apply the twin-linked to the sisters as it is still 1 army sharing the same FOC. However, if it is 2 armies (i.e. multiple detachments or a 2-on-2 game), then no as they are separate armies.

[R3con]

That's quite an abuse of a rule bad choice of wording... It's quite obvious that "Chapter Tactics" Only apply to space marines units.

Anyone trying to even argue that this rule be applied to allied armies is definitely trying to cheat, the wording might be a bit unspecific when they use the words "your army" but it's quite obvious it's meant to be for space marines units only.

Just my two cents, but if someone was trying to pull that on on me i would grab my army and go play someone else. (Possibly after having force fed the offender his/her army.)


why because vulcan is incapable of "modifying" sisters weapons if they are fighting together?

sounds like your a bit over aggressive buddy....threats of violence over something that has been ok'ed by Adapticon? Sounds like you may be the person we need to walk away from...yes go read the adapticon tourney faq it specifically mentions vulcan and the sisters and states if sister are taken as allies they recieve the twin linked rule,

The same as if you took GK termies with TH they recieve the master crafting.

[jy2]

That's quite an abuse of a rule bad choice of wording... It's quite obvious that "Chapter Tactics" Only apply to space marines units.

Anyone trying to even argue that this rule be applied to allied armies is definitely trying to cheat, the wording might be a bit unspecific when they use the words "your army" but it's quite obvious it's meant to be for space marines units only.

Just my two cents, but if someone was trying to pull that on on me i would grab my army and go play someone else. (Possibly after having force fed the offender his/her army.)

The reasoning for sisters weapons being twin-linked is because space marine vehicles (land speeders, land raiders, etc.) don't have chapter tactics but do get twin-linked multi-meltas and heavy flamers (except the redeemer cannons).

[GrandReaper]

I think the reason people take issue to this is primarily fluff based. It's not about Vulkan modifying their weapons I don't think, but more that he represents that the Salamanders tend to have superior worksmanship (and a love for flamey, thumpy death dealing).

[Lia]

Adepta Sororitas Covents are never part of Space Marines Chapters, thus why would they benefit from Chapter Tactics? That it has been okayed anywhere just further prove that Imperials are the favorite children and end up stretching the rules of fair play.

Chapter Tactics are like Adepta Sororitas and Grey Knights' special rules, they are meant to be used only by appropriate units. (IE the Chapter.)

I might be somewhat aggressive, but that's only against those that would try to abuse rules.

[gauss_storm]

Vulkan armies have be done to death so I tend to stay away from him.

[techmarine Rannon Zriker]

Chapter Tactics are like Adepta Sororitas and Grey Knights' special rules, they are meant to be used only by appropriate units. (IE the Chapter.)


Until it's Errata'd, RAW states that basically all those weapons get Twin linked. Again, it was worded that way for Vehicles (who don't have any sort of tactics to replace.) could gain the bonus. Although if GW really wanted to do it, they could have just had it say that it applied to the marines and their vehicles.

Cry cheese, but there are far worse things in the darkness of the 41st millenium, like Imperial Guard.

Also, how many SoB squads could be used alongside marines? I'm thinking about 5 and only two would be scoring anyway.

[MorbidlyObeseMonkey]

I think a Vulkan army with sisters army exactly like the one you described had a very high placing at a GT not too long ago. It's a very good combo.

[Jemal]

At max, this army could ally:

HQ - Heroine+Celestians(2 special guns)
Elite - Celestians (2 special guns)
Troops - 2xSisters (2 special guns each)
Fast - Dominion (4 special guns)

plus i suppose each of your characters could be upgraded to a combi-weapon, but so can most of the normal marine squad leaders.

I don't know, for 2 guns a choice I don't see it as being particularily cheesy. Only the dominions have any leg-up on your standard space marines as far as I can tell. where's the upside?

[A.T.]

Only the dominions have any leg-up on your standard space marines as far as I can tell. where's the upside?Space marine + flamer + reroll = a couple of extra saves to make.
Battle Sister + flamer + reroll + divine guidance = a couple of extra saves and AP1 wounds.

[R3con]

The point level for this type of army to work would have to be massive.....your not going to see this combo in a 1k point game or even a 1500 game...

[Epidemic4774]

[quote=Lia;1497276]That's quite an abuse of a rule bad choice of wording
You think thats bad?! Try playing aganist an ork player where he puts about 240 boyz on the table ,and if you hit and wound with every single shot in your army perfectly for every turn you would not be able to kill the orks they would still have around 100 models left.
also nob bikers r much more broken than this.

[Fizzics]

The point level for this type of army to work would have to be massive.....your not going to see this combo in a 1k point game or even a 1500 game...

ya never know

Space Marines (parent list): 730 points
-190 Vulkan He'stan (temporarily riding with the Dominions)
-70 Land Speeder with Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer
-235 10X Space Marines, Power Fist, meltagun, multi-melta, Rhino
-235 10X Space Marines, Power Fist, meltagun, multi-melta, Rhino

Sisters of Battle (allying list): 771 points
-135 Canoness, Blessed Weapon, Brazier, Cloak of St. Aspira, BoSL, Litanies of Faith (riding with the Dominions)
-206 8X Dominions, VSS, Brazier, 4X Flamers, Rhino, EA, Smoke
-215 10X SoB, VSS, BoSL, combi-flamer, flamer, heavy flamer, Rhino, EA, Smoke
-215 10X SoB, VSS, BoSL, combi-flamer, flamer, heavy flamer, Rhino, EA, Smoke

Total Points: 1501
Total Models: 56
Total Faith Points: 6 (including Litanies)

Total re-rollable flame weapons: 14
Total re-rollable melta weapons: 5

But I am confused... I thought that twinlinked meant that you could reroll failed attempts to hit... flamers will hit automatically... so does that mean you get to reroll failed attempts to wound?

[techmarine Rannon Zriker]

You're one point over the limit, it's not a friendly list, I'm not letting it do things reserved for friendly games. lose a combi-weapon or brazier to make it legal.

You're using combi-flamers and BoSL (Which I assume is a one time use), which is less useful over time than say, ah, can't even get a full squad for those points.

Twin linked flamers do get rerolls to wound, although a bigger flamer template would be way cooler.

[jy2]

ya never know

Space Marines (parent list): 730 points
-190 Vulkan He'stan (temporarily riding with the Dominions)
-70 Land Speeder with Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer
-235 10X Space Marines, Power Fist, meltagun, multi-melta, Rhino
-235 10X Space Marines, Power Fist, meltagun, multi-melta, Rhino

Sisters of Battle (allying list): 771 points
-135 Canoness, Blessed Weapon, Brazier, Cloak of St. Aspira, BoSL, Litanies of Faith (riding with the Dominions)
-206 8X Dominions, VSS, Brazier, 4X Flamers, Rhino, EA, Smoke
-215 10X SoB, VSS, BoSL, combi-flamer, flamer, heavy flamer, Rhino, EA, Smoke
-215 10X SoB, VSS, BoSL, combi-flamer, flamer, heavy flamer, Rhino, EA, Smoke

Total Points: 1501
Total Models: 56
Total Faith Points: 6 (including Litanies)

Total re-rollable flame weapons: 14
Total re-rollable melta weapons: 5

But I am confused... I thought that twinlinked meant that you could reroll failed attempts to hit... flamers will hit automatically... so does that mean you get to reroll failed attempts to wound?

Stick Vulcan with the Cannoness and Dominions and they lose their faithfulness until you split Vulcan from the group.

Correct, twin-linked flamers means you get to re-roll failed wounds.



You're using combi-flamers and BoSL (Which I assume is a one time use), which is less useful over time than say, ah, can't even get a full squad for those points.


BoSL = Book of St Lucius. It's not a one time use item. Basically it is to the sisters what 5pt Extra Armor are to Inquisition vehicles - you just cannot afford to not have them, especially at their price-point.

[Fizzics]

Stick Vulcan with the Cannoness and Dominions and they lose their faithfulness until you split Vulcan from the group.

Correct, twin-linked flamers means you get to re-roll failed wounds.



BoSL = Book of St Lucius. It's not a one time use item. Basically it is to the sisters what 5pt Extra Armor are to Inquisition vehicles - you just cannot afford to not have them, especially at their price-point.

Vulkan is just tagging along with the cannoness to get close enough... He wouldn't stay with the squad for long

[techmarine Rannon Zriker]

BoSL = Book of St Lucius. It's not a one time use item. Basically it is to the sisters what 5pt Extra Armor are to Inquisition vehicles - you just cannot afford to not have them, especially at their price-point.

*SMACK* I got the items confused, I was thinking it was those braziers or whatever it's called, my mistake! I really need to learn all of the abbreviations.

[MorbidlyObeseMonkey]

You think thats bad?! Try playing aganist an ork player where he puts about 240 boyz on the table ,and if you hit and wound with every single shot in your army perfectly for every turn you would not be able to kill the orks they would still have around 100 models left.
Who are you playing that uses 240 boys??? The maximum is 180. They come in mobs of 30. And what army are you playing that can only put out 23 attacks per turn? What, you're using 2 Tactical squads with 1 heavy bolter and a captain with a bolter? In that case I can see why you're complaining about losing.

By the way footslogging Orks is not the way to go for competetive gaming.

[Gedderz]

Another problem i see about this is that the amount of faith in an allied army is going to be quite small. so AP1 flamers wont be going off everywhere it willo only be a once a turn thing (still sick i know) and its only on 6's. Also always a chance of faling the faith role. I think its a good combo but nothing to be screeming about. Considering the armyis geared to a tactic that has a limited number of uses to make it devestating and the lowers T troops use it (not that i have anything against SOB).

[Epidemic4774]

Who are you playing that uses 240 boys??? The maximum is 180.
max troops plus extra slots
They come in mobs of 30. And what army are you playing that can only put out 23 attacks per turn?That was an exaggeration to enphasize how little damage your shooting will do to this army. What, you're using 2 Tactical squads with 1 heavy bolter and a captain with a bolter? In that case I can see why you're complaining about losing.
I dont play marines(you are also extremely ignorant)

By the way footslogging Orks is not the way to go for competetive gaming.
Foot slogging orks when you can put that many models out on the table, have very few kill points unlike mech armies, and very resilient troop choices, is a pretty effective army. Also I didn't even mention all the little "bonuses" that the orks can get to enhance this tactic.

[jy2]

Who are you playing that uses 240 boys??? The maximum is 180. They come in mobs of 30. And what army are you playing that can only put out 23 attacks per turn? What, you're using 2 Tactical squads with 1 heavy bolter and a captain with a bolter? In that case I can see why you're complaining about losing.

By the way footslogging Orks is not the way to go for competetive gaming.

I once played in a 2000pt game against the green tide. I had about 45 models and he had 220+ models! They are tough (though not invincible)! Try getting 30 fearless ork boyz off their objectives while at the same time protecting your own objects against 4 mobs of 30 boyz rushing towards you. At the same time, his lootas are shooting at you and his stormboyz are assaulting you by turn 2. Oh yes, they are competitive alright.


Another problem i see about this is that the amount of faith in an allied army is going to be quite small. so AP1 flamers wont be going off everywhere it willo only be a once a turn thing (still sick i know) and its only on 6's. Also always a chance of faling the faith role. I think its a good combo but nothing to be screeming about. Considering the armyis geared to a tactic that has a limited number of uses to make it devestating and the lowers T troops use it (not that i have anything against SOB).

Don't be deceived by the low-toughness sisters any more than you would with a unit like 5+ T3 wyches. If used properly (i.e. protected in transports & proper use of cover), they'll just tear through you. I once played against a sisters army and lost 7 grey knight terminators to just 1 round of shooting by only 1 squad of 150pt sisters. I'd like to see if a marine tact squad can do that in just 1 round!

[Heiromyo]

First I've heard of this kind of trick but it does sound rather silly, although short range. I remember back when fighting marines like this as Eldar you could take a wall of starcannons if you wanted, oh the screams of cheese that ensued lol.