Square base 40k

[Decayed]

I'm looking at starting daemons to compliment my CSM but would like more bang for my buck. Seeing as Chaos Daemons are also Daemons of chaos i was wondering how much people would care if i were to have my units on square bases for the purpose of not having to buy double ( i want to play fantasy as well) i can only assume turnies would not allow this but has anyone here tried this in friendly games. or maybe some sort of circle base ontop of the square magnet setup. im sure this has come up with this armies unique situation but have been unable to find it by skimming. any help or contributing information will be much appreciated.

[realitycheque]

As far as I'm concerned as long as they're on the bases they came with, it's not a problem.

Although I'm not a tournament judge.

[Ravendove]

Add magnets on the feet of every model and then put them under the base too. Done!

[Tekore]

I can't see this as a problem in a friendly game, as the appeal is so very obvious. Or you could do as Ravendove says and magnetize the bases. You'll have to check with tournament organizers.

Tekore

[Ravendove]

I have a friend who is currently doing Daemons and is making them inter-changeable. He mounts them all on round bases and then makes square movement trays that fit them on. These square movement trays have round holes cut into it so they still fit in with standard WHFB sizes.

[==Me==]

Either way works and is totally legal.

[mynameisgrax]

The larger square 25mm base is tournament legal, but the smaller square 20mm base is not. You're always allowed to use a larger base than the norm, but you're never allowed to use a smaller base, and since the small fantasy bases are smaller than the round 40k ones, they aren't strictly tournament legal. However, the 25mm bases are larger than the 40k ones, so they're fine, although some people may complain that working out close combat is more difficult.

In any case, I doubt anyone will really care besides at tournaments, where they tend to nitpick every last detail.

[The Prince of Excess]

I'd go with circles just to be safe personally. I'd have no problems with it unless the player was doing some kind of janky thing to take advantage.

[Memnoch]

Put them on round bases and then put the round bases on top of the square ones? Not sure size wise how that would work though but its something Ive been thinking about it.

[Bassline]

R^2 v XY

If R^2 is a lower number then XY that would work say you have enough space to fit it inside if you could smudge it up. But if the D of the circle base is bigger then X or Y then it would have the circle over lapping on the edges.

:/ easier to test it out then do math hammer to see if it fits

[Kelter Skelter]

it's easier to deep strike with circle bases...



othwerwise: http://santacruzwarhammer.blogspot.com/2009/01/modeling-tutorial-how-to-make-dual.html

[CrownAxe]

which is why their's no advantage to gain from square bases

[Kelter Skelter]

the only advantage i could see would be if you turned them diagonally in your movement phase so that during your assault you would have that extra 1/4 inch

[CrownAxe]

the only advantage i could see would be if you turned them diagonally in your movement phase so that during your assault you would have that extra 1/4 inch
Which your opponent also can take advantage of on their turn so it's balanced out

[Decayed]

thanks for the input i think i may go with the circle bases and either do that neat movement tray thing or just stack the bases on top of the 25 mm base with magnets.

[Kelter Skelter]

Which your opponent also can take advantage of on their turn so it's balanced out

can't you pivot your models during any of your own phases?

before the end of your turn you could turn them crooked

[CrownAxe]

can't you pivot your models during any of your own phases?

before the end of your turn you could turn them crooked
It doesn't make a difference. If your opponent makes all of his measures for shooting and assaulting to the square's corner, his getting the same advantage too

[Kelter Skelter]

i'm saying you measure your own assauls from the corner then at the end of your turn you're turning them so your opponent has to measure to their flat edges

[CrownAxe]

i'm saying you measure your own assauls from the corner then at the end of your turn you're turning them so your opponent has to measure to their flat edges
I know what you said

Your opponent has more then one unit. While turning to face you can only do it to one unit because the corner will be facing the other units. And if that one unit is wide enough they'll still get an advantage from the corners

Plus their is no rule specifically saying you can freely pivot your models. Why would they when your normally on a circle so "pivoting" does nothing

[Kelter Skelter]

Pg. 11 of the Rulebook states you're allowed to alter the facing of your infantry models freely during your movement phase and can be turned to face their targets in the shooting phase at no penalty

That's what I'm referring to.

I could see some people trying to take advantage of something so minimal

[CrownAxe]

Pg. 11 of the Rulebook states you're allowed to alter the facing of your infantry models freely during your movement phase and can be turned to face their targets in the shooting phase at no penalty

That's what I'm referring to.

I could see some people trying to take advantage of something so minimal

But your opponent take advantage of the same thing by measureing to shoot at your corner and charging into your corner. Both players get the same bonus so no one gets an advantage

And you can't pivot freely after shooting or in your assault phase as explained by that rule you post. Which was my point because you said that you could just pivot after shooting to face the edge towards the opponent but you can't do that so the corner will still be facing your opponent so they can take advantage of it.

[Dhoom]

Gw tourney rules state that any base that comes with the model is legal, if you replace a base it must be same size or larger than original. Since daemons come with both round and square base they are both perfectly legal in GW tourneys.

I came across this ruling when I played a guy who still had his termies mounted on the old small bases they originally came with back in the day. They looked silly but they were perfectly legal.

[sirisaacnuton]

I have all my Daemons mounted on square bases for this reason, just using the square bases they all came on, and have never even had a comment about it. I've played them in tournaments across the southeast and there has never been a problem with it. There wasn't even the slightest issue at the 40k Championship at Adepticon (or the Team Tournament, where our entire 4-man team's army consisted of Daemons on square bases). When it actually comes down to game time, no one cares. And as has been pointed out, the rules about bases say that they must be mounted on their supplied bases. The square ones work perfectly well.

The only issue that can arise is if you try to use the square bases to your advantage. Not things like measuring to/from corners...that's going to happen, because your bases have corners. Nothing to be done about it. You could take advantage by treating the bases differently in different cases. Let me give an example to illustrate:

I deepstrike an 8-man Bloodcrusher unit. On round bases, there will be a central model, a ring of 6, and one more on a 2nd ring, wherever on the outside I want. On square bases, it's possible to make a box around the central model, where some in the first ring are only touching corner-to-corner, and the 7 other Bloodcrushers all fit in the first ring. Or, you could not put them corner-to-corner and simply put 6 in a ring and one in the outer ring, just like it would be if they were round. Some people do it one way, some do it the other, no big deal either way IMO. However, the issue comes up if you do it one way once (maybe so they take up less room and don't have a mishap) but another way some other time (like to get one closer to the enemy to set up a charge next turn). Or if you don't do corner-to-corner on your Troops, but you use corner-to-corner on you Flamers so that there are 5 that can have a clear flamer template shot on the drop.

Once they deepstrike, there's really nothing you can do with square bases that will only give you an advantage with no disadvantage. I've never even heard of someone twisting their models after the shooting phase, and I can imagine that wouldn't fly very well, either in a friendly game or a tournament. But in general, if your bases are square, they're just square...they're shaped differently, so your measurements will be slightly different. No better, no worse, just an extra little quirk of Daemons. Just pick a way to handle their deepstrike formations and be consistent with it, and you'll be fine.

tl;dr: Go with square bases. It's fine. Save yourself a lot of work magnetizing all the feet or constructing homemade movement trays.




In any case, I doubt anyone will really care besides at tournaments, where they tend to nitpick every last detail.

It's interesting, I've read comments like this a lot about tournaments, but I've almost never seen anyone "nitpick every last detail" at tournaments. I've played lots of games with some very serious and competitve people, and at serious and competitive tournaments, and the majority of the time is nothing like what people make of them. No one will ever care in a tournament, you'll never have to go to the rule book and find the page about legal bases for your models, etc. The majority of the time, tournament games are either fun games with good people, or not fun due to a person being a bad loser (or even winner) or just generally a tool. I've never seen anything close to the degree of rules lawyering that many people imply happens at tournaments. Unless I just lucked out and live in an area where tournaments aren't like that.

[Spiketrap]

Just glue your round bases on top of fantasy ones. its completely legal and legitimate. Its also super fast. If anyone laughs at you for doing that in a fantasy game, laugh at them. you are still going to automatically beat them around turn 3, regardless of their list. There is nothing they can do about it.

Daemons are pretty rough in fantasy.

[Dheorl]

I deepstrike an 8-man Bloodcrusher unit. On round bases, there will be a central model, a ring of 6, and one more on a 2nd ring, wherever on the outside I want. On square bases, it's possible to make a box around the central model, where some in the first ring are only touching corner-to-corner, and the 7 other Bloodcrushers all fit in the first ring. Or, you could not put them corner-to-corner and simply put 6 in a ring and one in the outer ring, just like it would be if they were round. Some people do it one way, some do it the other, no big deal either way IMO. However, the issue comes up if you do it one way once (maybe so they take up less room and don't have a mishap) but another way some other time (like to get one closer to the enemy to set up a charge next turn). Or if you don't do corner-to-corner on your Troops, but you use corner-to-corner on you Flamers so that there are 5 that can have a clear flamer template shot on the drop.


I thought the rules said that you had to have as many as possible in the first ring, which surely means you could only deploy them the first way mentioned. With small units you still have a bit more flexibility than round bases, but not much.

[CrownAxe]

I thought the rules said that you had to have as many as possible in the first ring, which surely means you could only deploy them the first way mentioned. With small units you still have a bit more flexibility than round bases, but not much.
Since it's suppose to be circles, you would do a ring of 6 to represent that

[matus]

I'd heard about people using round bases and sticking them into the War of the Ring trays to play fantasy with. I'd be interested to know if a 3x2 WotR tray works out at the same size as a 3x2 square bases. If it does that would seem to be the best option.