Random ideas for DH

[Pheonix Lord]

Yes yes I know this thread pops up every page and yes I know they will never be introduced but I do like to day dream and one of my favorite bits of the hobby (yes I'm sad) is army list building. To that end I usually post in these threads but haven't had my own so without further ado here are some of my day dreams. CC is always welcome.

My answer to the mid level HQ, 75pts minimum but you get a decent model with a fair price. Tried to keep it simple with only a little twist, no flashy war gear just a good solid choice was what I was after.


HQ - Justicar sanctum

Forces that are led into battle by the Grey Knights may expect no less then the best. The Justicar is the heart and soul of any Grey Knight squad and any army is honored to serve under one.
Number - 1 Justicar Primus and 0-5 Justicars. The Justicar Primus and each Justicar MUST be assigned to a different unit in the army. You may therefore not have more Justiacrs than you do squads.
Cost - 75pts + 25pts for each Justicar.
Weapons/Equipment - All have Nemesis Force Weapons, all have Artificer Armour, all have Storm Bolters, all have Frag and Krak Grenades. The Justicar Primus has a Master Crafted NFW and an inbuilt Refractor Field granting a 5++ save.
Special Rules - All have the Grey Knight Rules.
Retinue - The squad that the Justicar Primus attaches to becomes his retinue as they fiercely defend him to the last. Also if the unit he is attached to is not a Troops choice then it gains the ability to hold objectives.

Justicar Primus
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 5 4(6) 4 2 5 3 10 2+/5++
Justicar
Ws BS S T W I A Ld Sv
5 4 4(6) 4 1 4 2 9 2+

Always thought we needed a HQ dreaddy. This could be modified to be a Heavy Support choice if need be to give an added punch to the forgotten Grey Knight Dreadnought.


HQ - Grey Knight Ancient

Many other Space Marine Chapters have an Ancient, an individual that has lived for Centuries and carries the honor of the Chapter with them. To reach this age in the Grey Knight Chapter is mostly unheard of outside legendary Grand Masters so a Grey Knight Ancient is nearly always strides to battle in the Sarcophagus of a Dreadnought.
Number - 0 - 1
Cost - 175pts + Weapons and Upgrades
Weapons/Equipment - The Grey Knight Ancient has a DCCW with an inbuilt Storm Bolter and must be armed with any of following: Additional DCCW +25pts (+1 attack, SB becomes assault 4), Twin Linked Las Cannon +50pts, Plasma Cannon +40pts, Assault Cannon +30pts, Multi Melta +40pts. The DCCW (and SB) may be replaced by a Missile Launcher for +10pts. Any Storm Bolter present may be replaced by an Incinerator for +5pts, if both SB are replaced then the Incinerator becomes twin linked. Extra Amour, Smoke Launchers and a Search Light are included in the original cost.
Special Rules - Venerable. Wisdom - If you wish to seize the initiative then you do so on a 4+. Relic - The GKA is a walking demi god. It counts as an additional objective to the army it is with as long as its alive, if destroyed then it has to be claimed like any other objective.


Grey Knight Ancient
WS BS S FA SA RA I A
6 5 6(10) 14 13 12 4 3

Well there you go folks. This is just a taster of some ideas I have, if more would like to be seen then I'm more than happy to post but I think these 2 for now are enough to ponder over.
Please let me know your thoughts on price/load out or any other factors.

PL

[A.T.]

25pts for each Justicar.
Weapons/Equipment - All have Nemesis Force Weapons, all have Artificer Armour, all have Storm Bolters, all have Frag and Krak Grenades.I get the whole 2 wound HQ thing, though the guy is cheap as chips (compare to the similar emperor's champion HQ for instance)

Upgraded half price justicars though?
Assuming they wield the power-weapon variant of the NFW they are undercosted.
If they don't, and instead only represent an artificer armoured 'representative' of the primus that can accompany squads then they are a nice perk but otherwise fine.


No psycannon option for the dread?
Also - am I reading it correctly that you are basically winning any objective game 1-0 from turn 1 just for purchasing the thing?

[V3xx]

I like these ideas, though i cant help but think the GKA should be a few more points, Grey Knight Dreadnoughts are scarce, and although I've not read up on much of the DH fluff, Grey Knights prefer to be laid to rest on Titan rather than continue the fight as a dreadnought, the only instance I've heard of this happening is a GKGM called Orias giving his consent on his deathbed.

Concerning the Justicar santum, would the justicar's all count as a unit in terms of kill points, or would the justicar and the squad he's with count as one kill point?

[Krovin-Rezh]

Your mid-level HQ choice looks to be competing with low-level choices because of the dirt cheap squad leaders. They are only 25 pts when they should be somewhere around 60 pts thanks to their artificer armor. This benefit can be used, but I would reserve it for a very expensive special character (such as Coteaz) who would have a reason for being able to bring more troops for cheaper.

But getting back to your Justicar Primus, why not leave Justicars the same price, but have him bestow them with a free benefit? So for +30 pts to the Primus, all the Justicars get artificer armor. Or maybe for +15 points, all Justicars go up to I5.

The GK Ancient is awesome, but also too cheap. He would need to be around 298 pts considering Bjorn's cost plus the extra armor (I used my VDR there). The Ancient doesn't have Bjorn's Ward save, but it does come standard with a DCCW, so I determined that to be a wash. I would give the assault cannon the option of psycannon bolts for the usual cost.

Is the Relic rule assuming the Ancient is an objective even after being destroyed? Or do you lose the objective when he's gone? If the latter is true, I would knock a good 50 pts off the price for a 248 total. But here is an interesting alternative: allow the Ancient to capture objectives, and if he is doing so, his objective counts as two. You could call it Ordained Defender or some other name that makes sense.

[Glavas]

I like the justicar idea, though if they've got a 2+ they should cost a little more :P

With the dreadnought, that is a very powerful ability. With 2/3 games being objective based I see that as a little unfair.

How about something more along the lines of as long as he's alive he counts as an objective.

If he dies he still remains an objective for your opponent. If you are holding him, he counts as NO objective for either side but if you're not, your opponent counts as holding him. (Regardless of whether he has troops there or not)

This seems a little more realistic.

I also like the idea of him counting as +1 to objectives if he's holding one.

Glavas

[jy2]

The Justicar Primus is just too cheap. For only +25pts more than a regular justicar, he has +1 WS, +1 BS, +1 W, +1 I, +1 LD, 2+ save, 5++ Invuln, grenades and master-crafted...all for just 25pts!?! If anything, he should be closer to the cost of a GM than a Justicar. I'd say 100pts at least.

I see the justicars are more like wolfguards right now. 2 issues with that. Firstly, a squad of GK's already has a justicar. Secondly, why is this justicar (and with artificer armor to boot) only half the price and a normal PAGK justicar? Sorry, but to me that doesn't really make sense.

Regarding the Grey Knights Ancient, I agree with Krovin that the price is too cheap, especially armor F14 S 13 R 12. He's a walking Baneblade! Lower his armor, please. He should be modeled after Bjorn (including costs), but instead of Bjorn's 5+ Inv save, give the Ancient Shrouding instead. He should also have the option for a psycannon.

I like the Wisdom rule. However, the Relic rule is too much in the favor of the Grey Knights. It needs to be a disadvantage to them instead. Make it count as an extra objective just for the enemy. After all, it is the duty of the knights to defend and bring back his remains. If they are successful, it is expected of them. If they fail, they have brought dishonor for losing the Ancient to the enemies.