[2500] IG All-Comers Competitive

[OldHat]

HQ:
Company Command Squad
w/ 3x Plasma guns, Plasma pistol, Medi-pack, Astropath
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[220]

Company Command Squad
w/ 3x Plasma guns, Plasma pistol, Medi-pack, Officer of the Fleet
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[220]

Elite:
Inquisitor
w/ Psychic Hood
2x Mystics, Hierophant
[60]

Troops:
(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns, Shotguns, Power Fist
[115]

(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns, Shotguns, Power Fist
[115]

Fast Attack:
(2) Vendetta
[260]

Vendetta
[130]

Bane Wolf
w/ Heavy Flamer
[130]

Heavy:
(2) Leman Russ Battle Tank
w/ Hull Heavy Bolter
[300]

Leman Russ Demolisher
w/ Hull Heavy Bolter
[165]

Leman Russ Demolisher
w/ Hull Heavy Bolter
[165]

[2500]

How does that look?

[Ravendove]

- Fill all three Vendettas with Vets so your Inquisitor can sit inside a Chimera, at least. If this is what you were already planning to do, good job.

- Drop the Plasma Pistols on the Commanders. They're not worth it.

- I prefer to run my Leman Russes with Hull Heavy Flamers, just incase some pesky hordes units show up on my doorstep.

- Wouldn't mind seeing another Bane Wolf in there, but having both in a Squadron is too fragile and you don't have any other fast attack slots.

- Consider dropping one Chimelta squad and getting a Platoon in there instead. Combined squads make great objective campers.

[The2010Pope]

Just a question, I'm kind of new with IG, and been playing Nidzilla a lot. Why not play with Platoons and stick them in chimeras or vendettas and spend points on the big guns?(tanks, artillery, or Gunships)

[OldHat]

Just a question, I'm kind of new with IG, and been playing Nidzilla a lot. Why not play with Platoons and stick them in chimeras or vendettas and spend points on the big guns?(tanks, artillery, or Gunships)

Vets have a better BS, as well as options for more special weapons in a squad. That is a nasty combo.

Also, there are only so many slots for big guns, so you can't overload on them anyhow without reducing your overall effectiveness.

[The2010Pope]

Alright, thanks.

[==Me==]

Executioner >>> Plasma CCS and it only costs 10 points more. Since you don't have anything worth ordering having 2 CCS doesn't seem necessary.

A Ld8 psychic hood isn't going to stop anything. At this points level you can afford an Inquisitor Lord with accompanying posse. 2 Mystics, a Sage, 2-3 HB Servitors, and a psycannon, hood and tarot for himself. Let them jack a random Chimera and lol at Deep Strikers and psykers.

Don't like plasma guns, too pricey, too limited and too dangerous.

An infantry platoon would be extremely helpful here, giving you a solid objective holder and some cheap heavy weapons. Vets will only take you so far.

Swap the Vendetta squadron for Valks, give the Vets inside Demolitions. You can nuke 2 tanks turn 1 or put out 3 pie plates each.

You can squadron 2 Vendettas and stick a PCS and SWS inside to make them scoring. This way you can keep in the Bane Wolf.

I don't like LRBTs much, Demos are just better. 2 Demos and an Executioner could put out a lot of pain at range. Or you could do 2 squadrons of Demos for more extra dakka.

Some allied GKTs riding in a Land Raider would give you some mean punch in assault, or some Sisters in Rhinos could give you a survivable mech element beyond your easily killed Vets.

[OldHat]

Executioner >>> Plasma CCS and it only costs 10 points more. Since you don't have anything worth ordering having 2 CCS doesn't seem necessary.

While they me have more firepower, they are lacking a lot of versatility. The current ones can go TEQ/MEQ/MC hunting with easy, as well as bust light armor. They also have my regimental advisors, which help this list function really well. Also, just because I start out in tanks, doesn't mean I won't be making orders in the game. I have plenty of times and its useful to have a larger bubble of command.

A Ld8 psychic hood isn't going to stop anything. At this points level you can afford an Inquisitor Lord with accompanying posse. 2 Mystics, a Sage, 2-3 HB Servitors, and a psycannon, hood and tarot for himself. Let them jack a random Chimera and lol at Deep Strikers and psykers.

That is a huge waste of points, the way you have it set up. Mine is basically a Vendetta upgrade, nothing more. Also, with my henchmen, he is Ld10, not Ld8. While I can technically afford an Inquisitor Lord, he isn't worth the HQ slot to use.

Don't like plasma guns, too pricey, too limited and too dangerous.

Typical opinion, but I find it untrue. With a 5+/4+ against Plasma, along with it being only a 16% chance of overheat, I generally lose only 1-2 gunners in a full game. For the ability to crank out six plasma shots per CCS, I can generally drop a 'Fex a turn that way, which is just awesome.

An infantry platoon would be extremely helpful here, giving you a solid objective holder and some cheap heavy weapons. Vets will only take you so far.

Vets can do what platoons do and better. Park them in a Chimera on an objective and I am golden. What do I care is one sits back? It still costs a lot less and offers more flexibility than platoons tend to offer, excluding the upgrades, which would only lessen my mobility and/or cost more.

Swap the Vendetta squadron for Valks, give the Vets inside Demolitions. You can nuke 2 tanks turn 1 or put out 3 pie plates each.

Demo is too expensive. Their three BS4 Meltaguns at 6" should do just as well and are far, far more reliable than a scatter Demo Charge. The plates are great, but I found they are dangerous to use near my own troops, so instead I can take pot shots with the lascannons across the table and put a hurt with shotguns and Meltaguns up close.

You can squadron 2 Vendettas and stick a PCS and SWS inside to make them scoring. This way you can keep in the Bane Wolf.

Squadrons are terrible, though. I hate using them, but I am forced to. The chance of them being destroyed is too high and I would rather avoid the costly platoon options.

I don't like LRBTs much, Demos are just better. 2 Demos and an Executioner could put out a lot of pain at range. Or you could do 2 squadrons of Demos for more extra dakka.

Demolishers are very short-ranged, while LRBTs can toss a plate across the table. That is huge when I need to put fire down range, instead of waiting for them to close on me. That is why I have the split the way I do. Executioners are savage, but too expensive for what this specific list is doing, I feel.

Some allied GKTs riding in a Land Raider would give you some mean punch in assault, or some Sisters in Rhinos could give you a survivable mech element beyond your easily killed Vets.

If only it wouldn't eat up so much of my points to do that, not to mention the monetary cost of this option. At most, I may toss around the idea of a LRC with some GKTs in it, but I doubt it is worth the ~500pts.


Thoughts in blue.

[==Me==]

While they me have more firepower, they are lacking a lot of versatility. The current ones can go TEQ/MEQ/MC hunting with easy, as well as bust light armor. They also have my regimental advisors, which help this list function really well. Also, just because I start out in tanks, doesn't mean I won't be making orders in the game. I have plenty of times and its useful to have a larger bubble of command.

wat. 5 plasma cannons vs 3 plasma guns is not even a contest. Orders are handy, but far from essential.


That is a huge waste of points, the way you have it set up. Mine is basically a Vendetta upgrade, nothing more. Also, with my henchmen, he is Ld10, not Ld8. While I can technically afford an Inquisitor Lord, he isn't worth the HQ slot to use.

You're totally right. Shutting down psykers, countering deep strikers before they even drop in, helping you get first turn, pre-measuring range just to be safe, and putting 9-12 S5/6 shots downrange (3 of which ignore invulnerable saves) is a stupid idea. Let's take more plasma guns instead.


Typical opinion, but I find it untrue. With a 5+/4+ against Plasma, along with it being only a 16% chance of overheat, I generally lose only 1-2 gunners in a full game. For the ability to crank out six plasma shots per CCS, I can generally drop a 'Fex a turn that way, which is just awesome.

Plasma is too expensive and too limited. Can't pop armor, can't drop hordes, just content to bounce off of cover saves all day. 5 templates do a much better job. It's less about AP, more about hits generated. Force saves and they'll fail more, go for AP and it bounces off of trees.


Vets can do what platoons do and better. Park them in a Chimera on an objective and I am golden. What do I care is one sits back? It still costs a lot less and offers more flexibility than platoons tend to offer, excluding the upgrades, which would only lessen my mobility and/or cost more.

For the same points you get 25 bodies, 25 bodies that can GtG, protect your vehicles from assault, and put shots down long range. Vets are good, but platoons bring balance to your list.


Demo is too expensive. Their three BS4 Meltaguns at 6" should do just as well and are far, far more reliable than a scatter Demo Charge. The plates are great, but I found they are dangerous to use near my own troops, so instead I can take pot shots with the lascannons across the table and put a hurt with shotguns and Meltaguns up close.

Demo is gravy, multi-charging with melta bombs turn 1 on all the static vehicles is solid gold. Vendettas sit back, meltas want up close, so you're wasting something when they combo. Valks can stay mobile and blasty while dropping melta dudes.


Squadrons are terrible, though. I hate using them, but I am forced to. The chance of them being destroyed is too high and I would rather avoid the costly platoon options.

You have it stuck in your head that platoons are costly, I have no idea what book your reading to give you that idea. Squadrons are a necessary evil. With Vendettas, Hydras, and artillery it isn't so bad since you're sitting as far back as possible anyway to avoid retaliation.


Demolishers are very short-ranged, while LRBTs can toss a plate across the table. That is huge when I need to put fire down range, instead of waiting for them to close on me. That is why I have the split the way I do. Executioners are savage, but too expensive for what this specific list is doing, I feel.

LRBT has range, but that's it. S8 AP3 pies don't bring anything special to the table. Heavy armor shrugs it off, Termies laugh, and everything else has cover. Demos have an effective 30" range and since 5th ed is all about getting in close, you'll find them to have plenty of reach. Executioners are expensive, but 10 points less for reduced firepower and survivability is a-ok. I lol'd.


If only it wouldn't eat up so much of my points to do that, not to mention the monetary cost of this option. At most, I may toss around the idea of a LRC with some GKTs in it, but I doubt it is worth the ~500pts.

You can snag Sisters cheap on eBay or wherever, you won't need many GKs. GKs give you combat ability your army doesn't possess outside Straken and super blobs, while Sisters give you resilient and flexible Troops for quite cheap.

[OldHat]

wat. 5 plasma cannons vs 3 plasma guns is not even a contest. Orders are handy, but far from essential.

That is still comparing apples to oranges. My CCS won't be competing for a Heavy slot anytime soon. Also, an Astropath and Officer of the Fleet are very useful.

You're totally right. Shutting down psykers, countering deep strikers before they even drop in, helping you get first turn, pre-measuring range just to be safe, and putting 9-12 S5/6 shots downrange (3 of which ignore invulnerable saves) is a stupid idea. Let's take more plasma guns instead.

For how many points, though? Mine is a Ld10 board-wide Psychic Hood and protects against Deep Striking for very, very few points. As I said, it is more of an upgrade to a Vendetta than anything.

Plasma is too expensive and too limited. Can't pop armor, can't drop hordes, just content to bounce off of cover saves all day. 5 templates do a much better job. It's less about AP, more about hits generated. Force saves and they'll fail more, go for AP and it bounces off of trees.

Plasma is strong enough to break open light armor, which is in abundance nowadays. It can put dents in hordes, but that is not where I send my CCS anyhow. They are all about hunting down MCs and TEQ/MEQ. Being able to rapid fire and put down a Carnifex or IC in a single round of shooting can often be pretty useful. While not my favorite CCS set-up, Plasma has served me well in this role.

For the same points you get 25 bodies, 25 bodies that can GtG, protect your vehicles from assault, and put shots down long range. Vets are good, but platoons bring balance to your list.

Sounds like a style choice. As I said, I prefer Vets for their superior BS and weapon options. Platoons cost as much or more, once you add the frills, and aren't nearly as useful in my experiences.

Demo is gravy, multi-charging with melta bombs turn 1 on all the static vehicles is solid gold. Vendettas sit back, meltas want up close, so you're wasting something when they combo. Valks can stay mobile and blasty while dropping melta dudes.

Vendettas still Scout move 24" without being penalized for moving. That means I can get out, move 6" and shoot 6" for ideal Melta hits. That is 36", which isn't bad. If I need to, I can assault as well. Also, that leaves my Vendettas free to move 6" and fire, or get out of dodge and fire next turn.

You have it stuck in your head that platoons are costly, I have no idea what book your reading to give you that idea. Squadrons are a necessary evil. With Vendettas, Hydras, and artillery it isn't so bad since you're sitting as far back as possible anyway to avoid retaliation.

Expensive because I need to buy a PCS and at least two Squads, which would then need things added to make them worthwhile. Therefore, it eats up points, especially if I am to make the mechanized to retain mobility.

LRBT has range, but that's it. S8 AP3 pies don't bring anything special to the table. Heavy armor shrugs it off, Termies laugh, and everything else has cover. Demos have an effective 30" range and since 5th ed is all about getting in close, you'll find them to have plenty of reach. Executioners are expensive, but 10 points less for reduced firepower and survivability is a-ok. I lol'd.

LRBT is a basic, cheap tank with a solid gun. I don't shoot it at heavy armor of Terminators, because I have plenty of other units to deal with them. Demolishers are awesome, but are still short range. As I have two already, it is moot to argue about them, since I think they are very good. At 230pts for a Plascutioner, it is a bit steep. I do use them, but here the role they fill was not needed as much as at other point values I play.

You can snag Sisters cheap on eBay or wherever, you won't need many GKs. GKs give you combat ability your army doesn't possess outside Straken and super blobs, while Sisters give you resilient and flexible Troops for quite cheap.

Yea, I really had been meaning to test GKTs, but I am not jazzed with the Sisters. The cost is bad, but I am finishing a commission soon, so I might be able to go full-out with GKTs and see how they do for me. I will post a list with them included later tonight. If they do well, I will splurge on some nice Forgeworld bits for them, because I simply love a well-modelled Land Raider.


Thoughts are yet again in blue.

[Imperator100]

Sorry ==you== but I must agree with oldhat. LRBT's are much more reliable with a longer range against a variety of opponents. While the meta at your club / store may call for the demolisher, in a wider setting the LRBT still reigns supreme imho. And even though I always run massive platoons of guardsmen, I think they are too expensive for what they do, and am phasing them out in favor of veterans as I slowly Mechanize my force. Also the executioner is not the best at everything. Hyrdas and plasma ccs will work better against foes, being; "bigger bang for buck."


Imperator 100

[==Me==]

PCS w/ autocannon, 2 infantry squads w/ autocannons = 160 points. How is that expensive? Platoons are an awesome bargain unless you trick them out with comissars, voxes, transports, HWS, and stuff like that.

Plasma nails light armor like an autocannon, except the autocannon gets 2 shots at 48" and is cheaper. AP2 means very little with cover how it is. Sticking wounds and forcing saves is the better way to get kills now. Executioner being the best of both worlds since it generates tons of hits and has AP2.

LRBT is a generalist in an army that can afford to specialize. Who cares about a S8 AP3 pie plate? Land Raiders, Termies, MCs? Nope. You can pop a Rhino, big whoop, so can anything. You can wipe marines in the open, grats on having a poor opponent. Demo is better every time. Range is not as big as issue as you think if you actually played a game.

Vendettas stay back because they can. AV12 is not invincible, so you want them firing safely as long as possible. Since Valks can move 12" and fire everything they are more suited to front line work.

Sisters are solid gold. Dirt cheap, crazy survivable, meltas and bolters, scoring, and faith. They are built to complement IG mech.

[antique_nova]

sorry old hat and Imperator100, but i have to take sides with ==Me== on his last reply.
However, if you want to rely on autocannons or plasma gusn to win a game and be the centre of your tactics. then your bumed.

furthermore, i wouldn't take such an expensive tank, i would take vets instead. because they are troops. just for that reason and they cost a damn lot less ^^. in points and on the wallet :D.
and i also saw 2x CCS for them instead of the exterminator. somewhere. For 2500 points. i still wouldn't take the exercutioner. i would definately go for 2x plasma CCS in chimeras. and to me lrbt. is reliable and i would take it as a fodder unit for demolishers. i wouldn't take them for rang, because i don't rely on them for range. i take them for firepower.

you want range? take griffons, take basilisk. not a russ. the idea of av14 is so that you can be in the enemies face and still laugh at them when they shoot all their guns at you. if you want ap3 pie plates. then go for lots of hb and autocannons. because they are hardly to kill on a whole, because there is so many of the little buggers holding them!. whereas a russ can be stunned a turn or two.

and at 2500 points. if you really want something about the same, but with the range and punch of a LRBT. go for the psyker battle squad in a chimera. ( well a squad of 9 guys 8 are ss )

hope my rabbling was on topic ^^. :P

thanks
antique_nova

[OldHat]

PCS w/ autocannon, 2 infantry squads w/ autocannons = 160 points. How is that expensive? Platoons are an awesome bargain unless you trick them out with comissars, voxes, transports, HWS, and stuff like that.

Expensive for a unit that does really nothing. I prefer the aggressive approach with my guys, as well as a wall of AV12/14.

Plasma nails light armor like an autocannon, except the autocannon gets 2 shots at 48" and is cheaper. AP2 means very little with cover how it is. Sticking wounds and forcing saves is the better way to get kills now. Executioner being the best of both worlds since it generates tons of hits and has AP2.

AP does matter. Not everything is in cover all the time. Cover is not as big of an issue as you think if you actually played a game.

LRBT is a generalist in an army that can afford to specialize. Who cares about a S8 AP3 pie plate? Land Raiders, Termies, MCs? Nope. You can pop a Rhino, big whoop, so can anything. You can wipe marines in the open, grats on having a poor opponent. Demo is better every time. Range is not as big as issue as you think if you actually played a game.

Yea, because that S8 AP3 Lg. Blast is just junk! If you factor in the rest of my army, it makes sense. Lascannons and Meltaguns are busting transports left and right, so I often have plenty of targets. It does wonders against 'Nids, 'Crons, and Orks, for instance. It fills a role in my list very well and it is dirt cheap for what it does.

Vendettas stay back because they can. AV12 is not invincible, so you want them firing safely as long as possible. Since Valks can move 12" and fire everything they are more suited to front line work.

I am not worried about it. They deliver the Vets, scoot, and sit back and shoot. Being able to Scout is a nice advantage, as I think I explained. Since it doesn't count as movement, they can deliver the Vets and still fire their lascannons. Since I am lacking ranged anti-tank, this helps.

Sisters are solid gold. Dirt cheap, crazy survivable, meltas and bolters, scoring, and faith. They are built to complement IG mech.

Yea, but have you seen the models? Hehe. I will dig up the Codex and give it a read and debate on DH or SoB to test in my next few games.


Comments in blue.

[Imperator100]

Well I think you are both taking into account the various meta you guys face. Often on tournament tables, especially large ones, there may no be enough terrain to protect juicy guardsmen, so pill box chimeras are needed, hence they become expensive for what they can do.

Given the 5th ed true LOS rules, battle cannons are also more effective then they were, and I don't fancy bringing Demolishers, as they will come into closer contact with enemy anti tank capabilities such as melta. Also I doubt that Demolishers will be very useful against more mobile armies such as Eldar and Tau, as they can pretty much outrun your demolisher cannons.

==you== mention that they are no use against MC, land raiders, and termies, well honestly you don't buy leman russes to take those out, and not every meta spams those. You buy VETERANS to take those out. And will sisters even be allowed in a competitive setting?

@ Antique, please do not tell me to get a basilisk instead. even ==he== wont agree with you on this. Basilisks just suck now, and given LOS I'd much rather have LRBTs. And while a russ may be stunned, guardsmen can be shredded when outside cover or should flamers reach them.

Old hat's comments in his last post are also pretty much valid imho.

Imperator100

ps. 160 points is expensive, as you can get 2 hydras that do what they do far better

[antique_nova]

i suggested basilisk, because i just wanted to instead of griffons. dunno why. how about griffons then? personally i don't like basilisks. don't ask me why i suggested, because i have no idea why.
thanks
antique_nova