Questions about Nork Deddog

[AllEvil]

I have a game coming up in a few days, and points aren't an issue (I agreed to a limit way beyond my armies real value). Anyway, I've decided I'll be taking Nork Deddog in my CCS to accompany Straken.

I just have a few rules questions.

In the Valkyrie Entry:
"A Valkyrie has a transport capacity of twelve models. It cannot carry Ogryns"

And in the Ministorum Priest Entry:
"A priest and his unit re-roll any failed To Hit rolls in close combat on the turn they assault. Righteous Fury has no effect on ogryns, who are simply confused by the Priest's rhetoric, or Ratlings, who are far too concerned with their own survival"

In both cases I presume that the rule is specifically talking about the Ogryn elite choice specifically, and not apply to Nork, but I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks.

Any thoughts/ideas?

[MadLarkin]

Nork is an ogryn, so those would apply. If you want the fluff based opinion, ogryns, even one as smart as nork, are still to short sighted to listen to a preacher and are afraid of dark, cramped spaces so would be doubly afraid of a dark cramp space that goes up in the air.

Of course if its just a game amongst friends its for yall to decide if nork is smart enough to understand why he should be especially angry at those people because the emperor told him to or if he's loyal enough to get in the valkyrie anyway.

[stayscrunchyinmilk]

No on both. Shove him in a chimera.

[Commissar_Dixon]

See, I actually think that those restrictions do not apply to Nork. Yes he's still an Ogryn and he's still pretty dumb and afraid of enclosed spaces, but he's not your typical Ogryn. He's "Loyal To the End" and is a "veritable genius" by Ogryn standards. Recall the story of Nork and one of his commaners, (name escapes me). The Commander was shot and wounded and fell to the ground, he told Nork to go get the medipack that was in the Chimera they rode in earlier. Nork nods and runs off, and comes back dragging the whole Chimera with him; thus giving the Commander cover. Why'd he do that? "Medpack was in the Chimera". Nork is a ogryn so loyal to his commander that he'd should be able to get into the Valkyrie, and as far as the priests rhetoric; I'm assuming his commander boils it down for him "The Emperor hates those guys. He wants you to be angry at them, and kill them." So no, those rescrictions don't work on Nork Deddog.

[Technique13]

nork is an ogryn, the rules apply - they arent just there for fluff reasons, they are there because they dont want a S5 T5 3 wound model going around in a valkryie or getting rerolls from a priest, why are you asking these questions anyway, not that there isnt a valid rules discussion, but why do you want to put him in a valk with straken? you want them to go into a chimera so straken can confer his aura to everyone around the hull and and give his orders by virtue of the command vehicle.

[sendaf]

From a fluff standpoint, I would consider between his loyalty, inteligence, and expierence; Nork would eventually get over his fear of dark spaces (not to mention that commissar/officers can convince normal "stupid" ogryns to get into a dark space, I dont see how a smarter Ogyrn would have problems getting into a valk whith the Highest ranking officer in the area convincing him.

Even with his enhancements I still dont think Nork would be inspired by a priest. I don't think that A priest buffing Nork would be overpowered though, Guard cant be overpowered in CC....its just not possible.
:beer:
I guess it comes down to your Gaming group, if you are stretching your army your opponents should be a little more sympathetic.

[AllEvil]

nork is an ogryn, the rules apply - they arent just there for fluff reasons, they are there because they dont want a S5 T5 3 wound model going around in a valkryie or getting rerolls from a priest, why are you asking these questions anyway, not that there isnt a valid rules discussion, but why do you want to put him in a valk with straken? you want them to go into a chimera so straken can confer his aura to everyone around the hull and and give his orders by virtue of the command vehicle.

Oh ordinarily I would, but I uhh... haven't got around to buying my chimera's yet.

Thanks for the input guys. The reason I ask is because, although he shares a lot of special rules with Ogryns, there isn't anything aside from fluff that explicitly says "This model is an Ogryn, treat him as such". I just figured I should get some opinions.

As it turns out my opponent is happy to let me put him in the Valk, so there's not a huge issue (for me at least). However, if people still want to continue discussion on this topic, you are more than welcome to keep posting here.

[Commander Currans]

Of course if its just a game amongst friends its for yall to decide if nork is smart enough to understand why he should be especially angry at those people because the emperor told him to or if he's loyal enough to get in the valkyrie anyway.

GOD, I miss Texas! Lone Star for life, brother! My army theme is representative of the desert wastelands of Tallarn, not all that dissimilar of the desert wastelands of El Paso, my hometown, deep in West Texas.

[vorlon]

there isn't anything aside from fluff that explicitly says "This model is an Ogryn, treat him as such". I just figured I should get some opinions.

Nork isn't an Ogryn.

Well racially he is - but that's like saying Conscripts and Storm Troopers are both human.

Racially they are both Human - but they form two distinct troop types and two distinct Codex entries

p29 - Special Rules i.e. rules that affect partcular unit types or Codex entries are specific to those entries - they cannot be extrapolated to other entries - (either because you want to do something cool - or mess with your opponent!) is how I'd read it.

Nork is a model with his own Codex entry & special rules and the only Ogryn racial rule which applies to him is the one specifically listed in his Codex - Bulky - p42.

A "Unit"of Ogryns may not respond to Righteous Fury, but in Nork's case it would be his Commander's HQ unit responding (assuming it does) and he would do as his Commander does.

Likewise the Valkyrie isn't transporting "Ogryns" - it is transporting an HQ Unit, one member of which is Nork.

The penalties for taking a slightly more flexible "ogryn" bodyguard are the points and the fact you can't take any other bodyguards.

Just my take anyway :beer: