2nd Attempt At 1500-1750 Competitive Mech Guard

[Proiteus]

Here's my 2nd attempt at mech guard, hopefully it's a lot more effective than my 1st attempt as it's got a lot more units in it.

HQ
110 – Command Squad: 4 Plasmaguns
55 – Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer.
(I originally had 4 Meltas, however Plasmaguns can benefit better from the orders that make them twin-linked and demand re-roll successful cover saves.)

TROOPS
100 - Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer.

100 - Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer.

100 - Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer.

100 - Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer.
(Your standard mech squad tactics)

FAST ATTACK
130 - Banewolf: Heavy Flamer.

130 - Banewolf: Heavy Flamer.
(These guys ride up behind the chimeras and move up to deal with the more threatening squads ie anti-tank equipped)

HEAVY SUPPORT
190 - Leman Russ Battle Tank: Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannon Sponsons
(I’ve made this my most threatening unit to force enemy fire away from the rest of my army, of which it can take a beating)

160 - Manticore: Heavy Flamer
(the perfect anti-horde killing unit)

75 - Griffon Mortar
(Best thing to get for the pts I had left, since I’ve already got all the anti- armour/meq I need)

Total Pts: 1470
Total No: 45 ( 10 )
Kill Pts: 15

An aggressive list, but the big thing that has me worried is the lack of ranged anti-tank that why I’m considering replacing one of the banewolves with a Devildog, what do you guys think? Please I’ll say this now no Valkyries and Vendettas they just would fit in with the army’s low tech appearance!

I’ve also got 30pts left to spend, here are a few options to buy…


3 Hunter Seeker Missile for the chimeras some ranged anti-tank.
Camo Netting for the Manticore as it is a threatening unit.
Multi-Meltas for the Banewolves to give the army some effective ranged AT weapons.
Extra Armour For Command Squad’s Chimera & 1 Multi-melta for a Banewolf that squad’s transport needs to keep moving.

FOR 1750PT GAMES…
For the additional 250pts for games of 1750pts I have two options…

100 - Veteran Squad: 3 Plasmaguns.
55 – Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer.

80 – 2 Scout Sentinels: Autocannons.
(1 Chimera for sitting on objectives with some outflanking Scout sentinels for tank hunting.)

- or -

Infantry Platoon
40 -Infantry Command: Autocannon
70 -Infantry Squad: Missile Launcher and Grenade Launcher.
70 -Infantry Squad: Missile Launcher and Grenade Launcher.
70 -Infantry Squad: Missile Launcher and Grenade Launcher.
(A Good big unit to hold down objectives on my side of the board while providing some long range support, I prefer ML due to their flexibility)

What do you think? I really need to get to start work on this army asap!

[antique_nova]

i would switch the banewolfs to vendettas, because 5 chimeras are enough anti-tank. plus the manticore is too fragile and the leman russ si too expensive. swap them for demolishers and they will provide better anti-termintor/nobz and anything else like anti-tank and horde should you need to ^^. it makes your army much harder to kill and they have rear armour 11 so even marines without a powefist can't do a thing. also griffon for marbo? and switching one of those plasma guys for a regimental standard.
thanks
antique_nova

[The Prince of Excess]

I'd drop the sponsons off the LRBT, they're pretty useless and expensive. Give it a hull HF, even though it has a long range main gun you'll still be advancing.

Give the Griffon a hull HF for DS and Outflanking troubles.

That gives you 70 points because apparently you're 30 short. I'd roll with Sentinels, you're weak on long ranged anti-armor and Sentinels are great at charging hold back gun units like Battle Suits or Dev Squads.

[Proiteus]

I'd drop the sponsons off the LRBT, they're pretty useless and expensive. Give it a hull HF, even though it has a long range main gun you'll still be advancing.

Give the Griffon a hull HF for DS and Outflanking troubles.

Really how can you say that 2 plasma cannon shots for 20pts each is a waste? combined with the battle cannon I can pretty much wipe out most MEQ targets I fire at?

The griffon does have a heavy flamer, just forgot to mention it.

[The Prince of Excess]

Because I never advocate any Russes besides a generic or a Demolisher and I never advocate sponsons. They simply aren't needed. You're making an expensive tank more expensive and hindering it's ability to advance.

A well played Mech army leaves little to nothing in the backfield, especially nothing with AV14. You need that Russ to block sides on your Chimeras and add to an imposing rush. If it's doing those important jobs, the sponsons won't be firing. You're paying 40 points for 2 backup guns to the turret basically.

I always keep my armor up front and moving unless there is an OVERWHELMING (caps for emphasis) Melta threat which isn't typical. If it loses the turret, I use it the same way Ork players use Battlewagons, Tank Shocks, armor protection and in our case, Hull HF.

Explanation = explained.

[antique_nova]

just to echo prince of excesses advice and that you should listen to him ^^, he is the msot experience 40k member that i have met ^^. hopefully the guy who's better is me :D.
thanks
antique_nova

[SandWyrm]

Really how can you say that 2 plasma cannon shots for 20pts each is a waste? combined with the battle cannon I can pretty much wipe out most MEQ targets I fire at?

Because the Russ will have to stay still to fire them. Moving tanks can:

1) Adapt to the field and get cover when they need them.
2) Deny cover to their targets.
3) Provide cover to infantry and other tanks.
4) Tank shock units.
5) Make it a LOT more difficult for assaulters to kill them.

Nobody ever believes me until they see it, but my Russes live (on average) twice as long as they used to when I put sponsons on them. That means the Battle Cannon is firing 2-3 turns more, and those shots are in the late game, when the target environment it richest. So the net gain is 10+ more dead MEQs than I had before.

Your list is pretty strong. Here's my suggestions:

1) Put a lascannon on the Russ so it'll have a better chance of taking out transports on turns one and two. You'll also want a second Russ, or preferably a Demolisher with a hull HFlamer.

2) Swap the Banewolves for Hellhounds. The extra 12" range of the Inferno Cannon makes all the difference. You can also put hull multi-meltas on them for shooting at transports on turns 1 and 2.

3) Get a squad of 3 scout sentinels with autocannons in there for (again) popping transports on turn 1. They're also great at tarpitting enemy squads.

4) Put your plasmas in a Vet Squad. Plasmas are great at defending an objective or the backfield in general. But you want that unit to be scoring as well, or you'll have to leave 2 tanks behind instead of one.

[Proiteus]

Here is what I hope is my final list, I've changed one of the Banewolves to a Hellhound for the extra range and horde killing factor, I've also swapped the command squad's plasmaguns with 2 of the vets squads. Cause if one of those overheat at least I've still got another 9 guardsmen to shoot with, plus they can still do damage when parked on an objective...

HQ
90 – Command Squad: 4 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

TROOPS
100 – Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

100 – Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

115 – Veteran Squad: 3 Plasmaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

115 – Veteran Squad: 3 Plasmaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

FAST ATTACK
130 – Hellhound: Heavy Bolter.

145 – Banewolf: Multi-Melta.

HEAVY SUPPORT
190 – Leman Russ Battle Tank: 2 Plasma Cannon Sponsons

160 – Manticore: Heavy Flamer

75 – Griffon Mortar: Heavy Flamer

TOTAL PTS: 1495
TOTAL NO: 45 ( 10 )
KILL PTS: 15

FOR GAMES OF 1750PTS
100 – Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

80 – 2 Scout Sentinels: Autocannons

10 –Upgrade Leman Russ to Eradicator

-- OR --

250 - Leman Russ Punisher: Heavy Bolters & Pask
(Excellent against nids and orks which is good since my army theme is ork hunters)

80 – 2 Scout Sentinels: Autocannons
(these will replace the griffon mortar to free up space for the Punisher.)

What do you think? Also which 250pt reinforcement should I go with?


Also I'm experimenting with a Valkyrie conversion, if it works the command squad will be mounted in it and I'll remove the Griffon and upgrade the Leman Russ to an Eradicator.

[Hussar]

Firsty, I agree with the previous posters that the Plasma Sponsons really aren't required, if possible you could change the LRBT to a Demolisher (also previously mentioned). But you seem to WANT the plasma sponsons, so I won't argue. They are a lot of fun if you get the time to use them :P

Secondly, I do think you were better off with the Plasmas on the CCS. The power of laying down 8 Twin-Linked plasma shots on a MC is all to good to pass up. And, I know, you'll still be abe to do that by ordering the other unit, but that means that they are forced to work in conjunction with eachother.

I also agree on exchanging the Griffon for Marbo. The Griffon is a nice piece of machinery, but as far as i've figured they're best used in pairs.

So if you've exchanged the Griffon for Marbo and switched the plasmas back to the CCS, you'd have 10pts left over to spend on whatever you'd like ^^

And for the larger games, I would actually advice on using the Infantry Platoon you posted first. It's always nice to have a firebase able to hold a home objective.

Otherwise I find it quite nice, altough I've always had a problem with the Chimelta-Vets spam ^^'

Anyways, I wish you good luck with this army ^^

Cheers ^^

[Proiteus]

But surely the Plasma guns are better for holding objectives and the vets can take losing a man, where is the command squad suffers a lot.

A friend has recommended I replace the Leman Russ and Hellhound with a Leman Russ Punisher with Pask & HB + replace the Griffon with a Standard Leman Russ or even a2nd Griffon?

He says since the rest of my army is mostly anti MEQ & armor it would give me a good weapon against hordes and monsterous creatures.

[antique_nova]

demolishers work better and they cost a damn sight less. punishers? if they are the one with 20 shots. that's a waste of a tank with BS4. might as well get griffons if you want anti-horde or chiemras with heavy flamers. if it's the S10 one shot russ then, i wouldn't rely on it/ it's one shot and melta guns and lascannons are cheaper and have a better chance to break tanks that a russ which is a very big fire magnet.
thanks
antique_nova

[Proiteus]

Well here is final list. I've gone with the Valkyrie for the seer horde killing power it provides, I've got enough melta weapons in this army to deal with vehciles and big creatures. As for the comments about the Leman Russ I want to keep it as it is a threating target for my opponent drawing fire away from most of my army as it advances laying down a barrage from all its weapons due to the 'lumbering' rule.

HQ
90 – Command Squad: 4 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer.

TROOPS
100 - Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer.

100 - Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer.

115 - Veteran Squad: 3 Plasmaguns.
55 – Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer.

100 - Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns.
(mounted in Valkyrie)

FAST ATTACK
140 - Valkyrie: Rocket Pods and Heavy Bolters

130 - Hellwound: Heavy Flamer.

145 - Banewolf: Multi-Melta.

HEAVY SUPPORT
190 - Leman Russ Battle Tank: Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannon Sponsons

160 - Manticore: Heavy Flamer

Total Pts: 1500
Total No: 45 ( 10 )
Kill Pts: 15

FOR 1750PT GAMES…
100 - Veteran Squad: 3 Plasmaguns.
55 – Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer.

80 – 2 Scout Sentinels: Autocannons.

Total Pts: 1750
Total No: 55 ( 13 )
Kill Pts: 18

[SandWyrm]

Well here is final list.

Nice list. :)

[Lord Borak]

Nice list but.....

100 - Veteran Squad: 3 Plasmaguns.

These guys are 115pts ;)

[Mrkilley2900623]

good luck using the demolisher with plasma cannon side-sponsons. its make an utterly brilliant unit if you use it right. i think the main opposition to it is that not as many people use them. 20 pts. is acceptable but dont be afraid of moving your russ forwards because you wont get to fire the plasma cannons. they are best used in defensive missions - utterly brilliant as support for an objective holding unit

[antique_nova]

not bad, but i really don't like your heavy support options at all.

[Aristocrap]

not bad, but i really don't like your heavy support options at all.
I second that. Guard is all about quantity/reduncancy. Two Russes would force your opponent to make more decisions on what he uses his AT on. One Russ with sponsons is less effective than two. What happens if it gets destroyed? Plus, those plasma cannons could easilly scatter.

[SandWyrm]

good luck using the demolisher with plasma cannon side-sponsons. its make an utterly brilliant unit if you use it right. i think the main opposition to it is that not as many people use them. 20 pts. is acceptable but dont be afraid of moving your russ forwards because you wont get to fire the plasma cannons. they are best used in defensive missions - utterly brilliant as support for an objective holding unit

Doh! Missed that!

Yeah, take the sponsons off the Demolisher and take a heavy flamer on the hull.

[Proiteus]

Okay I'm curious to know why does everyone hate Plasma Cannon Sponsons, so can you answer these questions?



What do people think I can move the russ forward and fire the plasma sponsons, the 'lumbering' rule allows all weapons to be fired at combat speed?
If I get rid of the plasma cannons sponsons where should I spend the 40pts?
WHY A HEAVY FLAMER ON THE RUSS? They're not fast enough to be threating with them as they can only move 6+D6 at top speed due the lumbering rule?

[Lord Borak]

1: Sorry dude. the lumbering rule lets you fire the turret weapon "in addition to weapons you may normaly fire". So if you move at combat speed you're normaly only allowed to fire 1 weapon but the lumbering weapon lets you fire the turret weapon as a bonus!

2: You don't need to. In a sit back and shoot list a Plasma Russ is fine. If you're going for a mroe aggressive mech army i'd just go for a Demolisher as it has better rear armour and the shorter range doesn't mean anything as it will be moving forward and supporting your Chimeras.

3: It's personal preference. Some people like H-Bolters as they can fire lots of times and think that if the enemy are in Flamer range anyway, you'll be dead Flamer or not. On the flip side some people think that a single BS3 Bolter will do Jack so would rather have that 1 good Flamer shot to try and save their Russ.

[SandWyrm]

Okay I'm curious to know why does everyone hate Plasma Cannon Sponsons, so can you answer these questions?



What do people think I can move the russ forward and fire the plasma sponsons, the 'lumbering' rule allows all weapons to be fired at combat speed?
If I get rid of the plasma cannons sponsons where should I spend the 40pts?
WHY A HEAVY FLAMER ON THE RUSS? They're not fast enough to be threating with them as they can only move 6+D6 at top speed due the lumbering rule?



No, the lumbering rule only allows the turret weapon to fire in addition to any other weapons you may fire. That means that if you move 6", you can fire the cannon and ONE other hull or sponson weapon.

Which brings us to the subject of sponsons.

I've already written a long, in-depth, article (http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2009/05/get-your-armor-up-in-their-face.html) on why tanks should be as mobile as possible on my blog. So I won't repeat myself. But the cliff-notes version is that sponsons encourage you to stay still and die instead of staying mobile and effective.

As for heavy flamers, I only recommend putting them on Demolishers because you're going to be up in the enemy's face anyway, where a heavy flamer will kill more of the enemy in a single turn than a lascannon or bolter would all game long. In fact, I've had games recently where the heavy flamer killed more troops than the demolisher cannon did.

[antique_nova]

what kgoreham *didn't* did say and heavy flamers over heavy bolters any time of the time in 40k, in real time and in your dreams ^^. corrected now :).
thanks
antique_nova

[SandWyrm]

what kgoreham and heavy flamers over heavy bolters any time of the time in 40k, in real time and in your dreams ^^.
thanks
antique_nova

Is he agreeing with me? I can't tell. :P

[Proiteus]

I’d been worried about the lack of numbers in this army and the expensive cost of the veteran squads that would likely be butchered after being forced out of their chimera transport, I then thought I’d try replacing most of the vets with a platoon this has boosted by unit count and I have 3 more chimeras driving round. Which is very overwhelming.
I did plan to put a bare Infantry squad in the Valkyrie but then decided to leave it empty so it could act as a rescue craft saving the scoring units when their chimera is destroyed (it’s bound to happen) so the Valkyrie can become a scoring unit or save a unit about to be destroyed in Annihilation.

HQ
90 – Command Squad: 4 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

TROOPS
100 – Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

Infantry Platoon
50 – Platoon Command Squad: 4 Grenade Launchers or Flamers (suggestions?)
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

55 – Infantry Squad: Flamer
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

55 – Infantry Squad: Flamer
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

75 – Special Weapons Squad: 2 Meltaguns and Demo Charge
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

FAST ATTACK
130 – Hellhound: Flamer

145 – Banewolf: Multi-Melta.

140 – Valkyrie: 2 Rocket Pods, Heavy Bolters.

HEAVY SUPPORT
170 – Leman Russ Battle Tank: 3 Heavy Bolters

160 – Manticore: Heavy Flamer

TOTAL PTS: 1500
TOTAL NO: 46 (12)
KILL PTS: 17

HOWS THIS LIST COMPARED TO THE LAST ONE I POSTED?

[Mrkilley2900623]

i think you could do with more scoring units and perhaps a bit more long range anti-tank firepower

[Proiteus]

I've just noticed that special weapon squads can't take transports, so I've had to make a few changes, what do you think?

HQ
90 – Command Squad: 4 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

TROOPS
100 – Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

Infantry Platoon
50 – Platoon Command Squad: 4 Flamers
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

55 – Infantry Squad: Flamer
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

55 – Infantry Squad: Flamer
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

55 – Infantry Squad: Flamer
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

FAST ATTACK
130 – Hellhound: Flamer

145 – Banewolf: Multi-Melta.

140 – Valkyrie: 2 Rocket Pods, Heavy Bolters.

HEAVY SUPPORT
190 – Leman Russ Battle Tank: Plasma Cannons Sponsons

160 – Manticore: Heavy Flamer

TOTAL PTS: 1500
TOTAL NO: 50 (11)
KILL PTS: 17

[Mrkilley2900623]

HQ
Fine

Troops
I think you have too many heavy flamers perhaps exchange a few for heavy bolters for longer-ranged killing would also take some different weapons other than lots of flamers perhaps exhcange a few squads flamers for meltaguns or higher ap killi-ness however chimeras work well and the vet squad will perform fine

Fast attack
id perhaps take out the banewolf or hellhound you seem to have maxed out on anti-horde weapons. Valkyrie is fine though i definetly advise putting a squad in there for it to drop off before "rescuing" other units

heavy support
persoanlly i prefer demolishers with plasma cannons. Manticore is fine

overall you have maxed out a bit too much on anti-horde weapons. This list just needs a bit of tweaking

[Proiteus]

overall you have maxed out a bit too much on anti-horde weapons. This list just needs a bit of tweaking

What would you recommend then?

[Mrkilley2900623]

perhaps meltaguns in some of the infantry squads, i would suggest autocannons but you are a mech list so id suggest perhaps taking a meltagun or two in the infantry platoon, dropping the banewolf or hellhound, taking multilasers on the chimeras and trying to find the points to fit in more battle tanks and demolsihers. 3 or 4 demolishers in a game is devvestating

[Proiteus]

Well here my final list, I’ve ditched my lone Valkyrie for a Demolisher with a Lascannon and given one of the infantry squads a heavy weapon for some long range damage should there be an objective on the other side of the field or if they need to babysit my home objective in ‘capture and control’ missions.

As for 1750pt games I’ve taken a pair of Valkyries to do a bombing run and then tank hunt with the Lascannons while saving squads who have lost their chimera and delivering them to an objective or saving them from being completely destroyed.

As for the Leman Russ tank, I don’t want it to move, I want it to menaceily sit and the back and scare my opponent.

HQ
90 – Command Squad: 4 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

TROOPS
100 – Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

Infantry Platoon
50 – Platoon Command Squad: 4 Flamers
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

65 – Infantry Squad: Grenade Launcher & Autocannon
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

55 – Infantry Squad: Flamer
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

55 – Infantry Squad: Flamer
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

FAST ATTACK
130 – Hellhound: Flamer

145 – Banewolf: Multi-Melta.

HEAVY SUPPORT
190 – Leman Russ Battle Tank: Plasma Cannons Sponsons

160 – Leman Russ Demolisher: Lascannon

160 – Manticore: Heavy Flamer

TOTAL PTS: 1500
TOTAL NO: 50 (11)
KILL PTS: 17

FOR GAMES OF 1750PTS
230 – 2 Valkyries: Hellfury Missiles & Lascannon

20 – Upgrade Platoon Command Squad's flamers to Meltaguns

Hopefully a much more balanced and effective list?

[Hussar]

I would have to say, you're still lacking in anti armor at range. Your greatest hope for taking out Armor at range lies in your Manticore. Take notice that the Manticores low AV will get it quite easily killed by any DS'rs or long-ranged mobile anti tank (ex. Vendettas). Your close range threats lie in the LRBT (Not all to scary though), Demolisher, Banewolf and 2 Chimeltas. A wise enemy will deal with the Chimeltas in short order and AV 12 on the Banewolf isn't the biggest threat. All in all, a wise opponent could probably deal with your anti-tank quite easily. Either by just outnumbering your close-up anti tank (Think standard Chimelta-spams) or just out-ranging you (Tau could be quite nasty).

I fail to see how well the three Infantry Squads in Chimeras will perform. They'll simply be a nuisance, at best. I know the xtra power from the 3 Chimeras could be nice, but why not drop all the Chimeras together with one of the squads and all the gear on them and the Flamers on the PCS (giving you 260pts to play with).
Then kitting your two Infantry Squads with Autocannons, giving your PCS Meltas (60) and then throwing in another Chimelta (155-170. Or maybe a Chiplasma? You could need the anti-MC). This would leave you with 30-45pts to spend on whatever you'd like. I'd suggest kitting the Helhound with a Multi-melta (15. And in the case of you using the Chimelta squad, you could include an Officer of the Fleet. Always nice to mess with your opponents reserves)

I trust the LRBT will be parked in the back of your lines and simply be pumping out templates?

For the expansion fo your lsit I believe that the two Valkyries will not perform terribly well. Theese work best when deployed with MRP's.
I don't know if you've checked the ruling on the Hellfury? They're NOT blast weapons, just simply one-shot Ordnance.

But, it's nice to see someone including such wierd equipment options on their units ^^

Cheers mate ^^

[IronWeevil]

Okay I'm curious to know why does everyone hate Plasma Cannon Sponsons, so can you answer these questions?



What do people think I can move the russ forward and fire the plasma sponsons, the 'lumbering' rule allows all weapons to be fired at combat speed?
If I get rid of the plasma cannons sponsons where should I spend the 40pts?
WHY A HEAVY FLAMER ON THE RUSS? They're not fast enough to be threating with them as they can only move 6+D6 at top speed due the lumbering rule?



Actually the lumbering behemoth rule allows you to fire the turret weapon in addition to any other weapons you would normally be able to fire. So lets say a hull mounted weapon and the turret, if you were moving at combat speed.

[SandWyrm]

MoonSmell is right in most everything he said.

Here's a much better list:

HQ
135 Company Command Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera (Hull HFlamer)

Troops
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera (Hull HFlamer)
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera (Hull HFlamer)
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera (Hull HFlamer)
115 Veteran Squad w/3 x Flamer, Demolitions
115 Veteran Squad w/3 x Flamer, Demolitions

Fast Attack
140 Vendetta Gunship w/Heavy Bolters (Demo Vet Ride)
140 Vendetta Gunship w/Heavy Bolters (Demo Vet Ride)
150 Hellhound w/Hull Multi-Melta, Smoke

Heavy Support
165 Leman Russ Demolisher w/Hull Heavy Flamer
165 Leman Russ Battle Tank w/Hull Lascannon
160 Manticore

Total: 1750

Long range AT is handled by the Vendettas, Manticore, and the Russ. With the Demo Vets, you'll have the ability to do a first-turn alpha strike.

Since you're not sold on Chimeltas yet, the list has 5 scoring units, just for reassurance.

To do 1500, drop a Chimelta and the Manticore. Then take Marbo.

[Proiteus]

Well problem is my Valkyrie conversion is going to be a small airship so I feel a bombs would be better than Lascannons. As for the infantry squads I feel they'd make a good front line defence. I can use their chimeras to grant the more important squad's transports a cover save.

Here the list, I'm looking at the moment...

HQ
90 – Command Squad: 4 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

TROOPS
100 – Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

Infantry Platoon
50 – Platoon Command Squad: 4 Flamers
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

55 – Infantry Squad: Flamer
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

55 – Infantry Squad: Flamer
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

55 – Infantry Squad: Flamer
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

FAST ATTACK
130 – Hellhound: Flamer

145 – Banewolf: Multi-Melta.

HEAVY SUPPORT
165 – Leman Russ Battle Tank: Lascannon

165 – Leman Russ Battle Tank: Lascannon

160 – Manticore: Heavy Flamer

TOTAL PTS: 1500
TOTAL NO: 50 (11)
KILL PTS: 17

FOR GAMES OF 1750PTS
90 – Psyker Battle Squad: 8 Sanctioned Pyskers
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

(-5) Remove 1 flamer from Platoon Command

100 - Valkyrie: Multi-Laser and Hellstrike Missiles.

TOTAL PTS: 1750
TOTAL NO: 56 (12)
KILL PTS: 20

Though I'm tempted by the list, without the Vendettas.

[SandWyrm]

Well problem is my Valkyrie conversion is going to be a small airship so I feel a bombs would be better than Lascannons.

That's your choice, but it's not going to be as focused and competitive.

[Proiteus]

True it's not exactly focused, but it does have a role; Outflank from the side, Bomb the opponent and then Rescue squads who have their chimera destroyed.

Plus it will also work well with the psyker battle squad by running an expensive squad off the table after it fails it's leadership of two.

I feel a single Valkyrie will be quickly targeted I mean it's a huge model compared to everything else and stands out. That is why I decided not to arm it as heavily as I originally had because after it's fired it missiles and 1 or 2 targets it will use it's speed to full advantage saving kill pts and capturing objectives.

[Proiteus]

I give up, all veterans for the win! Hows this...

HQ
80 – Command Squad: 3 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

TROOPS
100 – Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

100 – Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

90 – Veteran Squad: 2 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

90 – Veteran Squad: 2 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

FAST ATTACK
130 – Hellhound: Flamer

145 – Banewolf: Multi-Melta.

HEAVY SUPPORT
165 – Leman Russ Battle Tank: Lascannon

165 – Leman Russ Battle Tank: Lascannon

160 – Manticore: Heavy Flamer

TOTAL PTS: 1500
TOTAL NO: 45 ( 10 )
KILL PTS: 15

[Proiteus]

Made some changes, here what I hope will be the final list…

HQ
80 – Command Squad: 3 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

TROOPS
100 – Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

90 – Veteran Squad: 2 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

90 – Veteran Squad: 2 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.
(good anti-tank and objective grabbing units)

115 – Veteran Squad: 3 Plasmaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.
(Changed some meltas to plasmas to deal with monstrous creatures)

FAST ATTACK
115 – Valkyrie: Hellfury Missiles and Lascannon
(After firing it’s missiles the Valkyrie will rescue squads who have had their transport destroyed to deny kill pts or deliver them to an objective.)

145 – Banewolf: Multi-Melta.
(A good threating unit, tank hunting before getting in range of it chem cannon.)

HEAVY SUPPORT
165 – Leman Russ Battle Tank: Lascannon

165 – Leman Russ Battle Tank: Lascannon

160 – Manticore: Heavy Flamer
(All three are good for either taking down infantry or vehicles)

TOTAL PTS: 1500
TOTAL NO: 50 (11)
KILL PTS: 17

Now it’s a solid list, my only doubt is what to do with the Valkyrie do I…

1. Keep its weapons to a minimum making it a less threatening target so that it can rescue squads.
2. Ditch one of the tanks anti-tank weapons and give rocket pods so it can deal massive damage to infantry.
3. Upgrade it to a Vendetta to give me some long range solid anti-tank, however I feel this may make it a priority target and it will be shot down early in the game.

What do you think?

FOR GAMES OF 1750PTS
130 – Hellhound: Heavy bolter
(My Hellhound conversion a nice model and I rarely play 1750pts)

For the remaining 120pts I’ve got three options…

OPTION 1
+15 – Replace Veteran's plasmaguns with meltaguns

80 – Psyker Battle Squad: 2 Additional Pyskers
55 – Chimera: Heavy Bolter.
(An interesting squad to play with especially with dealing with uber units with their leadership power even if it’s only -6)

OPTION 2
65 - Marbo
30 - Officer Of The Fleet
20 - Add an third meltagun to 2 of the Veteran squads?
Four models not too hard to create, but are they more effective than the other options?

OPTION 3
30 - Officer Of The Fleet
85 - Upgrade 1 Leman Russ to Pask’s Punisher with 3 Heavy Bolters
With a lot of nid players running round I thought this maybe a useful option, however I can only really take this option if I go with the Vendetta, and if I do that’s half my ordnance gone

Well what do you think to my final list and what should I do with the Valkyrie?

[Proiteus]

Well thanks to advice from other forums I'm arming the hellhound and banewolf with heavy flamers and using the points to upgrade the Valkyrie to a Vendetta, but what about the extra 250pts any advice guys?

[Lord Borak]

With the 250pts, a good place to start would be to give the Vets their 3rd Melta gun. It seems almost rude to give some squads 3 and some 2.
I'd also think about getting the Valk or the Bane wolf a Friend. Just so you've got a bit of redundancy and i find Bane Wolves work very very well in 2's as they can dish out a serious amount of template death whilst moving 12".

What then? I've found a new love for Colossus. It's an insanely good tank and i think you'd have more use for it than that Manticore. It's more reliable and for taking out infantry it's rather handy to have "ignore cover" AP3 means you can splat Dark Reapers and Devastarors hugging cover. (An Eradicator works just as well)

Depending on how many points you have left i'd either chuck in Marbo and/or a small platoon for camping on objectives.

[Proiteus]

So I guess your up for option 2, plus I can change the hellhound to a banewolf and attach it to the first one?
But I'm worried about taking marbo due to 2 of the 3 missions at the tournament I'm going to use Kill Pts!

[Lord Borak]

Aye thats deffinately a draw back to the sneaky little fellow but i usualy find his tactical use outweigh his easy kill point. Deffinately up to you though I just like him.

If you have to squadron the BaneWolves then go for it. If you don't need to then i wouldn't. I run a squadron of 2 and they always do well for me. 2 Templates wounding on 2's, AP3 and ignore cover Plus 2 H-Flamer shots hurts everything but you need to be sure you'll kill that unit otherwise you leave yourself open to counter attack next turn.

[Proiteus]

Well thanks for the help here is the final list…

HQ
80 – Command Squad: 3 Meltaguns.
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

TROOPS
100 – Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

90 – Veteran Squad: 2 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

90 – Veteran Squad: 2 Meltaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

115 – Veteran Squad: 3 Plasmaguns
55 – Chimera: Heavy Flamer.

FAST ATTACK
130 – Vendetta

130 – Banewolf: Heavy Flamer.

HEAVY SUPPORT
165 – Leman Russ Battle Tank: Lascannon

165 – Leman Russ Battle Tank: Lascannon

160 – Manticore: Heavy Flamer

TOTAL PTS: 1500
TOTAL NO: 45 ( 10 )
KILL PTS: 15

FOR GAMES OF 1750PTS
130 – Banewolf: Heavy Flamer

80 – Add Plasma Cannon Sponsons to the Leman Russes

20 – Add a 3rd Meltagun to Veteran squads 3 & 4
15 – Replace 2nd Veteran Squad's Meltaguns with Plasmaguns

TOTAL PTS: 1745
TOTAL NO: 45 (11)
KILL PTS: 16

[Proiteus]

With all the monsterous creatures and mech army around I'm debating dropping one of my leman russes and Banewolf's extra armour for a full squadron of hydras in games of 1750pts; What do you think?

[Mrkilley2900623]

i dont think that would be a good idea, because then you'd just have one expensive russ that will take all the firepower - remember in guard take two of everything where possible. You can deal with MC and mech easily with your curent list

[Proiteus]

i dont think that would be a good idea, because then you'd just have one expensive russ that will take all the firepower - remember in guard take two of everything where possible. You can deal with MC and mech easily with your curent list

I could always ditch the sponsons and invest in some smoke launchers and extra armour for the banewolves, or perhaps instead of extra armour a master of the fleet?

[Mrkilley2900623]

no, the sponsons are good, always take things in tow's i think your list is fine for now, extra armour isnt rly that useful and master of fleet isnt great

[SandWyrm]

Agreed, except for the part about sponsons being good.

[Mrkilley2900623]

well im a fan of the sponsons they are great you can move then fire your battle-cannon and sponsons. Makes the tank loads more killier. Very easy to take down terminators

[Lord Borak]

I think you need to read the "lumbering behemoth" rule again Mr Killy. You don't get to fire the sponsons and the Turret weapon on the move. Just 1 weapon and the turret (plus defensive)

[Mrkilley2900623]

so?... turret weapin and one weapon sponsons being used as that one weapon

[Proiteus]

I've decided to swap out one of the banewolves for another Vendetta with what I've decided will be the final list. Having a banewolf lurking behind my chimeras will provide an effective counter-attack if one of my chimeras is assaulted. However I'm now got one final question...

"Master Of The Fleet Or Astropath?"

With an Astropath I can have the vendettas outflank and hopefully come on the side of my choosing, however there is always the chance that the reserve rolls can go bad and I loose more than one turn of shooting.

Or I keep them on the ground behind terrain or my 8 Vehcile battleline and when my turn begins they take off and beginning their shooting, in which case I'll go for a Master Of The Fleet to keep my opponents reserves away especially the deep strikers that can attack my tanks rear and side armour?

[SandWyrm]

I've decided to swap out one of the banewolves for another Vendetta with what I've decided will be the final list. Having a banewolf lurking behind my chimeras will provide an effective counter-attack if one of my chimeras is assaulted.

Ahhhheeee!!! You're making my head hurt!

Why keep a fast-moving tank back behind your line? Put it OUT FRONT! You WANT assaulters to charge it and only hit on 6's. That bunches them up and lets your Chimeras counter-attack them with heavy flamers and meltas.

[Proiteus]

Ahhhheeee!!! You're making my head hurt!

Why keep a fast-moving tank back behind your line? Put it OUT FRONT! You WANT assaulters to charge it and only hit on 6's. That bunches them up and lets your Chimeras counter-attack them with heavy flamers and meltas.

Steady on it was only a idea for a tactic. Anyway from what I've seen on your blog you have 2 Vendettas in your army too so how do you use them; do you deploy them with the army or outflank them?