Cypher will kill the body of the Emperor, freeing him to become the Star Child.
Between the emergence of the Star Child and the Emperors Death, Cypher will reign as emperor.
Cypher is Lionel.
The Dark Angel's secret will be revealed.
They will be exposed for the traitors that they are and branded traitor excommunicae, with the exception of a few regiments (so that current Dark Angel Armies can continue to be used). They hunt the "fallen" because they fear that their treachery will be exposed. They become the new Chaos Chapter.
A new chapter will be added to the Space Marines, named the Redeemed or something thematically similar. It will be made up of all the fugitive angels that resisted the corruption.

The most important rumor is that Cypher will kill the emperor and replace him.
Any thoughts?

where the hell did you find that idea? thats what i wanna know

Not in anything with an ounce of credibility thats for sure. The only thing that is credible is that Cypher, for reasons not entirely clear to himself, is slowly travelling to Terra to lay the Lion Sword at the feet of the Emperor.

Originally posted by Bawdymonkey@Nov 13 2004, 18:46
Not in anything with an ounce of credibility thats for sure. The only thing that is credible is that Cypher, for reasons not entirely clear to himself, is slowly travelling to Terra to lay the Lion Sword at the feet of the Emperor.
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Cypher can't be Lionel because Lionel's body is currently in statis inside The Rock, allowing for a possible "Primarch Reunian".

Cypher is probally one of the few people who know about the whole "Emperor-Starchild" thing, although I don't know how he learned this (Would have to be good buddies to the Eldar or a drunk Astartes Custodies). Also, the God-Emperor being the Star Child won't allow Cypher to become Emperor (Emperor isn't a title, it's the Emperor's name... Unless you believe that his real name was Lance and he was a gay sheep-herder.) because the Lords of Terra would still be having the job or the Star Child will start giving orders again.

I think some other guys, other than the DA themselves, know about the Fallen.

Cypher is probally one of the few people who know about the whole "Emperor-Starchild" thing, although I don't know how he learned this (Would have to be good buddies to the Eldar or a drunk Astartes Custodies). Also, the God-Emperor being the Star Child won't allow Cypher to become Emperor (Emperor isn't a title, it's the Emperor's name... Unless you believe that his real name was Lance and he was a gay sheep-herder.) because the Lords of Terra would still be having the job or the Star Child will start giving orders again.

I think some other guys, other than the DA themselves, know about the Fallen

Sorry to burst you're bubble, but the Star Child fluff isn't worth a crock of ***** now. That was dropped midway through 3rd ed, GW decided it sucked and dropped it. There maybe refernces to it still (Draco series etc) but it's no way offical, also IIRC it was never properly released.

But for the Fluff go here, look for BiD's 2nd post

Star Child (http://www.librarium-online.com/index.php?showtopic=597&hl=star+child)

KU

Originally posted by King Ulrik Flamebeard@Nov 13 2004, 15:19
Sorry to burst you're bubble, but the Star Child fluff isn't worth a crock of ***** now. That was dropped midway through 3rd ed, GW decided it sucked and dropped it. There maybe refernces to it still (Draco series etc) but it's no way offical, also IIRC it was never properly released.

But for the Fluff go here, look for BiD's 2nd post

Star Child (http://www.librarium-online.com/index.php?showtopic=597&hl=star+child)

KU
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Then why did they reprint the Inquisition Wars trilogy? Why would they reprint something if they threw it out?

That's what I said, it stil exists but only in that. I dunno why it was thrown out, but the answers probably in that thread I linked. All I know is that in offical fluff it's none existant, otherwise surely we'd have heard something new about this story line developing right?

I've not heard nothing about it for ages, and with redesigning the codices and rule book would they not have put something in there?

KU

The Games Designers can take and leave Black Library fluff as they please, to an extent its glorified fan fiction :closedeyes:

Its like Forge World- you can play over £100 for a tank that can't be used in any offical tournaments despite the fact its a GW product :huh:

Originally posted by Reabe@Nov 13 2004, 12:58
Cypher can't be Lionel because Lionel's body is currently in statis inside The Rock, allowing for a possible "Primarch Reunian".
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its just bothering me that no one seems to consider that just cause lionel is in stasis doesnt mean that his mind didnt leave a copy of itself on someone else. as quarky as it sounds its still possible. 8)

Pfft, this would be like me writing:

The Eldar gods will be reborn and take over the relam of chaos, prugeing it from the chaos god en destroy them. Eldar power in the galaxy will rise and relcaim their terrortory

:rolleyes:

It's been confirmed by GW that Lionel is not Cypher.

Has it never occured ot anyone that Cypher may NOT be one of the Fallen? I mean take breather FLuff-Fanatics and look at some of these poitns?

1- Imperial Guard can Use him
2- The Dark Angels REALLY aren't what you would call..staunch Imperialists
3- He was active during the EOT Campaign, Dark Angels sat at home.
4- He goes to lay the Sword of THe Lion at the Feet of the Emperor
5- He Shows NO chaotic Mutation thus far..and he's been around ofr a LONG while
6- He has NEVER been held, some would say it's the Will of the Emperor, Could be.
7- He preaches ont he worlds he touches AGAINST the Imperial cult. He fought beside the emperor and knows he is no god, as the Ecclesiarchy venerates him to be.

Lion El' Johnson was a Traitor. He could have staved off the Emperor's death,a nd the Dark Angels could ahve fougth during the assault on Terra. He sayt back, and waited to see who would win. HE tried to survive, not crusade. Mayhaps Cypher lives witht he Shame of his Primarchs crime and Failure to fightf or the emperor like no other Dark Angel and brings the Sword of the Traitor Son as a begging of forgiveness to the Emperor. Mayhaps the "Hunt The Fallen" is way to displace the Dark Angels Failure to stand among their brothers at the Battle for Terra. I don't think any of this is too far fetched,a nd I am ready to hear rebuttals.

Semper Fidelus Imperitoris

Arent you forgetting that Lion El fought whats his face ( i cant remeber his name) Luthor or something and was mortaly injured and so couldnt really help with terra.

In the original fluff Lion was betrayed by Luthor who was the one who went over to chaos.

Just stating what i know anyway. These debates over completely fictional pieces get a bit silly after a while.

Cyper eistst for one reason..because GW needed a badass to stick in the "universe of cliched archetypes". Cypher takes on the role of the mysterious,brooding loner.He's the Sephiroth of 40k, The Solid Snake of the Imperium.He's mean,he's unbeatable,he's got a mysterious past,and I'll bet you anything he smokes cigars and has a deep,quiet voice.They keep his past a mystery on purpose,so gamers will go onto thier message boards and post "Cypher is the Emporer!" threads and they can read them and snicker.

Originally posted by Faust_Vermillion@Nov 22 2004, 16:27
Â* Lion El' Johnson was a Traitor. He could have staved off the Emperor's death,a nd the Dark Angels could ahve fougth during the assault on Terra. He sayt back, and waited to see who would win. HE tried to survive, not crusade. Mayhaps Cypher lives witht he Shame of his Primarchs crime and Failure to fightf or the emperor like no other Dark Angel and brings the Sword of the Traitor Son as a begging of forgiveness to the Emperor. Mayhaps the "Hunt The Fallen" isÂ* way to displace the Dark Angels Failure to stand among their brothers at the Battle for Terra. I don't think any of this is too far fetched,a nd I am ready to hear rebuttals.

Semper Fidelus Imperitoris
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Luthor was the Traitor who turned those Dark Angels left on Caliban into traitors.
And Luthor mortaly wounded Lion'El after his return in an epic fight.

The Dark Angels and the Space Wolves was on like the other side of the galaxy when the assault on Terra begun. Horus had send both of the legions there before his Herasy so his plans would go smother ;)

Chyper is on the way to Terra for unkown reason, some say to re-forge the Lion sword.
And don't come up with names such as "Sword of the Traitor Son" damn Heretic

/Cheers :P

Lion 'El Johnson. First of the Primarchs, wounded by a lowly humn, even if enhanced? Victor of a thousand battles, undefeated strategist...beaten and mortally wounded by Luthor? Feh. Mortalyl wounded? he was whisked away, vanished, dissappeared. Most Every one of the loyalisyt Primarch's save leman Russ can be accountd for, and died in glorious battle. THeir chapters living on in homage tot her great sacrifice. The Drak Angels? Sulked on CALIBAN,. or what's leftof their miserable planet druning the Eye of Terror, NONE of the Dark Angels went to help the Emperor. ro Garrisson Terra afterwords. The Fallena re allt he ORiginal Dark Angels that Lion El' Johnson banished to Caliban. And let me ask you this? What were more than half the Dark Angels Legion protecting in firmly hld imperial space? Pheh. The Traitor knew about Horus and sat back and watched. The Dark Angels shoudl take turns falling on The Sword of The Traitor Son..at least those that are int he highest of the secret circles..the new ones are ok.

Semper Fidelus Imperitoris

the problem is angels of darkness copmpletly rewrote the DA fluff, luthor was the traitor adn Lion el'jonsson the hero, so thats why it suddenly up in the air (i have posted the orgional story on another forum just retold it),
as for cypher it is still largely unkown who he fights for whether its against chaos adn for the imperium, for the imperium and against choas or agaisnt both of them,
it was cypher who wounded abaddon before eye of terror started by shooting him witha plasma pistol after abaddon turned round and asked why do i need you.
thought he sword is believed to be the lion sword why he carries it again has been distorted, just wish GW would stick to the fluff.

Dont forget that there was some fluff in WD about 8 months ago, in which an Inquisitor saw Cypher battling with the deciever (or at least something which looked like him) In a room (in a sewer complex if I remember correctly). We all know he never uses the sword he carries, and in this fluff he managed to wound the Deciever with a C'tan knife he was wielding, then some fog/smoke/something obscured the Inquisitors vision and when he saw the room again, the fallen angels, cypher, the necrons and the Deciever were gone.

Also, Cypher did not wound abbaddon, he just shot one of his 10 000 year old personal bodyguard terminators and sheathed his pistol so quickly that even Abbaddon had trouble seeing it happen.

Why did Cypher stir up all the ant-imperialism? Why was he head of a propaganda machine?

I actually like the star child fluff, maybe one day the illuminati will fulfill their role...

Originally posted by Faust_Vermillion@Nov 24 2004, 11:47
Lion 'El Johnson. First of the Primarchs, wounded by a lowly humn, even if enhanced? Victor of a thousand battles, undefeated strategist...beaten and mortally wounded by Luthor? Feh. Mortalyl wounded? he was whisked away, vanished, dissappeared. Most Every one of the loyalisyt Primarch's save leman Russ can be accountd for, and died in glorious battle. THeir chapters living on in homage tot her great sacrifice. The Drak Angels? Sulked on CALIBAN,. or what's leftof their miserable planet druning the Eye of Terror, NONE of the Dark Angels went to help the Emperor. ro Garrisson Terra afterwords. The Fallena re allt he ORiginal Dark Angels that Lion El' Johnson banished to Caliban. And let me ask you this? What were more than half the Dark Angels Legion protecting in firmly hld imperial space? Pheh. The Traitor knew about Horus and sat back and watched. The Dark Angels shoudl take turns falling on The Sword of The Traitor Son..at least those that are int he highest of the secret circles..the new ones are ok.

Semper Fidelus Imperitoris
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Luthor was an Dark Angel Librarian and was by all means powered up to with chaos powers when they both fought their battle!
So they where equal in strength and power. It was AFTER the Assault on Terra which both Dark Angels and Space Wolves arrived to late, at the end that is.
And it was AFTER the assault, the dark angels arrived to caliban, only to find their brothers had turned their back and tired to shoot down their ships. And which they uterly destroyed, though Lion went down to the planet to confront Luthor.

They fought and when Luthor died, his psychic scream teared a hole in real space sending the Fallen over space and time.


Get your damn fluff straight! >.<

did anyone, at any point, understand just how Cypher gets into the same room as the emperor.

yeah, thought so.
you question your faith, you shall all be hung as traitors.

Personally my feeling is that luthor wasn't a traitor and neither was el johnson. Lion was paranoid and when horus accused the emperor of being corrupted he did the worst thing instead of taking sides he waited that is why no one knows where the dark angels where until the end of the heresy.

I think angels of darkness probably gets it right a civil war happened on calaban between the terran dark angels and the calaban ones. The ones who were loyal to lion escaped destroyed a chunk of the planet and the ships, found lion after the emperor had been slain well for all intents and purposes and told him that luthor and the rest had fallen to chaos. anyway i imagine that lion attacks calaban furious that his own chapter had traitors rage blinds him he rushes down to face luthor and he beats the hell out of him, then he looks up in the chapel and he sees that there is no chaos imagery suddenly he is struck by a realisation they were not traitors lion is stunned luthor dying strikes out at his lord who has attacked him breaks the lion sword and mortally wounds the lion. The gods of chaos laugh and play a trick on them by destroying calaban and scattering the terran dark angels through space and time.

Anyway thats how i see it happening.

I keep reading about cypher killing one of Abaddons body guards and stuff like that, could some one tell me where this was printed?

In WD, just prior to the EoT.

Originally posted by Colonel_Kraken@Nov 26 2004, 12:15
In WD, just prior to the EoT.
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Damn I think that might have been one of the ones I missed, any chance of you knowing the number of the White Dawf?

It is in WD 281 ;)

/Cheers :D

Originally posted by Moonsinger@Nov 27 2004, 12:55
It is in WD 281 ;)

/Cheers :D
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Thank you :D , thats the one I actully missed :hmm: , but atleast now I know which one it was so I can find some one who does have it and read up on it :), thanx again :D