Hey all,

I was thinking about what would be a cool idea for the next race. To think of something that fits in a unique way to the 40K universe, let's briefly consider the races we currently have and what they represent:

Human ( SM, Guard, etc.) - The Empire. The de facto power in the galaxy. Sort of the equivalent to the US/ UK in today's world.

Eldar - The old, previous regime. Once the most powerful force in the galaxy, now a shadow of what it once was, looking to reclaim its lost glory. The France/ Old Europe of today.

Orks- The wild card. Everywhere, but poorly organized. If they could ever unite, they'd be unstoppable, but they could never truly unite. Think of the third world/ Latin America

Tau - The young guns. Big on technology and the whole over the individual. Modern Japan/ Asia.

Chaos - Pure Evil. Only out for themselves. No real equivalent in today's world. Based off of fantasy.

Necrons - Essentially Skeletons 40K.

Tyranids - Represent the natural world fighting actively. Evolution, change, consume. Only the strong survive

Dark Eldar - In my opinion , pretty much a half- hearted effort to represent pirates/ Road Warrior in the 40K universe.


With that in mind, what is missing? What about the equivalent of either giants or a race of pure warriors (like the Spartans, or Kliongons? That might be cool.


Just some thoughts.

Chaos are -evil-?

I mean, it's not as if the Imperium is a particularly nice place. I always thought chaos was the spirit of raw unpredictability and emotional indulgence taken to extremes, but if you think it's evil, i won't argue.

But yeah, new races..

The problem would be trying to make them unique. One of the cool things about the current races is that they all have their own technological systems and atmosphere, the Tau are big on energy, the orks have big, clunky and destructive technology, the necrons have super-metals and nanotechnology, and the Tyranids are bio engineered.

Rather than seeing new races, which would probably just be transfers from Warhammer anyway, I'd like to see new Chapter approved variations on the existing races.. New imperial guard forces, space marine chapters etc.

If I abseloutely had too.. I'd plump for lizardmen to be transfered in some form. I liked the way the Slaan palaquin had high-tech style markings on the underside, it would be nice to see some of that really arcane, quasi-mystical wierd technology transfered across.

Originally posted by The_Giant_Mantis@Nov 17 2004, 10:18
Chaos are -evil-?

I mean, it's not as if the Imperium is a particularly nice place. I always thought chaos was the spirit of raw unpredictability and emotional indulgence taken to extremes, but if you think it's evil, i won't argue.

But yeah, new races..

The problem would be trying to make them unique. One of the cool things about the current races is that they all have their own technological systems and atmosphere, the Tau are big on energy, the orks have big, clunky and destructive technology, the necrons have super-metals and nanotechnology, and the Tyranids are bio engineered.

Rather than seeing new races, which would probably just be transfers from Warhammer anyway, I'd like to see new Chapter approved variations on the existing races.. New imperial guard forces, space marine chapters etc.

If I abseloutely had too.. I'd plump for lizardmen to be transfered in some form. I liked the way the Slaan palaquin had high-tech style markings on the underside, it would be nice to see some of that really arcane, quasi-mystical wierd technology transfered across.
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Good idea. Maybe that would be the new angle, a purely Warp- based race. For example, all of their vehicles do not have pistons and gears and such but are powered purely by the Warp. It's not that each member of the race were psykers, but rather than their craftsmen and engineers work in the medium of Warp energy, instead of steel, iron, etc. Their weapons would not be based on bullets or energy, but fired focused warp energy. HQ would be the craftsmen, psykers of tremendous ability.

I just first want to say that I don't really like you comparing the 40k relam with mordern day as it can provoke people from other countries. (Like why you put UK and US in the same thing and the rest of Europe in another and so on)


Anyway, yes a new race. Why not make Hruds?

I would like to see them as fast horde moveing army (leaping and fleet of foot) with like 18" S:5 Ap:5 Assault 1. they got bs 4, ws 2, t3, w1, I3 and sv 5. cost like 7 pts.

Dunno... :glare: just speculation

:D

/Cheers ^_^

I don't like the idea of adding another race.We already have 7 different races and 11 different armies..isn't that enough? I think GW should focus on fixing the problems they have with thier currently existing armies before they try to distract us with a new army.

I'm not so much interested in the actual stats as much as the models and the fluff. I would like to see new races, but something new and exciting. I don't want to see any more Inquisition, Ordo-whatever armies.

What I would like to see is a race of Giants(like the new Ogre Kingdoms army for Fantasy). I know we already have Ogryns, but seriously, does anyone use them? They are terrible looking models in my opinion, and I would be ashamed to have them in my force.

Another army I would enjoy would be a feral army, like the Beastmen of Fantasy or the Lizardmen. Sure we have Tyranids, but they are too alien to relate with our world. Canines, reptiles, and avians would make for some great models.

I'd like to see the enslavers at the head of that giant race. =)

SQUATS!


:P

Well, its a possibility, isn't it?
Or not.......

Hey cool thread...we get to use our imaginations instead of just spreading rumours (Y)
How about this:
Little gnome-like guys, they have grey-brown skin, big noses, bald, sort of like gretchin with no teeth. These guys are symbiotic with any habitable planet they live on, mining and building. They are nocturnal and live in tunnels. Their technology is all clanking steel and sort of dark like the imperium, but well maintained and shiny. Their weapons are mostly melta equivalents and they excel at close quarter shooting and tunnel fighting. These guys explore the stars to find new metals and join with new planets. They have psykers who work with rock, summoning big rocky elementals (dreadnought equivalents). Their HQs wear all enclosing battle suits like mini-terminator armour. Their elites also use battle-suits sort of like Tau, but solid, metallic looking and tough. To other races they are seen as greedy traders but the reason they like metals and earth is coz they need it to live, incubate in it maybe.
This is my idea, I think of it maybe as how the Squats could have been if they hadn't made them stupid bearded dwarfs transplanted in a universe they didn't fit in.
What do you think?
I'll try to think of more new races this is fun.

Those metel guys sound sweet Robotnik.

Here's what I was thinking, a low tech, tribal race that is millinia behind the other races technologicly. They'd be these warriors with pitch black skin and they would stand about 5'6", but they wouldn't be fragile. They would be very well muscled, but more suited for running and quick movements, rather than brute force. Their eyes would be a shinning blue and they would carry spears with blades about a foot and a half in length. These spears would be deadly close up, but do to their heavy weight couldn't be trown very far.

And their leaders would be wise and cunning, not the voodoo shooting tribal chieftens from movies. Their powers would be based in the world of dreams; and that's also who they would travel. The can find a persons dream and transport all of their troop to the source.

Imagine if you a Libraian and you wake up to see hundreds of deadly tribesmen raging through your still-sleeping camp.

Another army I would enjoy would be a feral army, like the Beastmen of Fantasy or the Lizardmen. Sure we have Tyranids, but they are too alien to relate with our world. Canines, reptiles, and avians would make for some great models.


You all forgot the Kroot, feral avian tribesbirds that fight for money not ideals or power. They are led by shamans and shapers. Sounds like Beastmen to me.

But seriously, they are Tau. And seriously #2, those are some dumbass-looking birds.

The next race will be:

The squats in a whole new name and form. Their name will be the Demiurg. But they are pretty much the squats that we knew and loved.

Heck, we have space elves, space orks, space humans... the only fantasy race NOT in space are space dwarves! They should be there just to prove that they're as good as the others... if not better! :D

There were space dwarves. But they got rid of them, never to be spoken of again.

Buuuuut, they may come back with annother name (see my other post).

I can see it now... subbornly going where no-one cares to go, seeking new ores wherever there may be, growing beards to never before seen lengths... I can't see why they haven't been done before!

And not to mention moving 3" and assaulting 3". That would be super! :P

There all aready so many armies. I think they got to focus on improving the diffrent chapters and stuff and making rules so we can realy make our own chapters. If they do this than you could make yourself a hrud army with say the rules of IG. IG are Dwarf/Skaven in 40k if you don't know.

Can someone please clarify what the 'squats' are?

Drunken dwarves on bikes. They were killed by the tyranids because GW wanted them gone.

I'm not sure when GW wanted them gone, maybe it was the same ordeal as with Malal and how the creator had left.

The squats and fallowers of Malal will live forever in our hearts.

Ohh and Malal was the chaos god of hating chaos, he was pretty hardcore and had a black and white color scheme.

Originally posted by archonofdeath@Nov 19 2004, 15:40
Drunken dwarves on bikes. They were killed by the tyranids because GW wanted them gone.
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God bless the Tyranids

Having read the 2004 annual, I now have reason to agree even more with my previous statement. Variations on the old armies, which present them in a new light, or allow players to tailor them to different roles, are way cooler than simply trying to come out with new ideas to sell. The Tyranid seeding swarm and Kroot Mercenaries (who I'm about to start making an army of), for example, look really atmospheric, and should make for some great fun battles and conversions.

The animal idea is cool. Beastmen theoretically are supposed to exist in 40k, and it might be nice to see them back. I'd also like to see more to chaos than just the guys in big armour and cultists with stupidly big robes. Though there is some stuff on traitor IG which is quite cool, we still have to convert them. I'd love to see some really rough frontiersmen, like marauders in Warhammer perhaps, to make up the numbers. Maybe something like the smugglers from star wars.. but with mutations. ;)

okay well first of all the DE are not so much pirates as they are just plain plain evil. they are more evil than chaos as half of the CSM are just hypnotized by one of the various gods and they do the bidding of the gods not of themselves and so therefore aren't as evil as they would go jump off of a cliff if i could tell them to, and actually i can in the game

The DE follow their own path and actually created Slaanesh anything that can create an evil god must be even more evil in order to create it so that is why the DE are more evil and not just pirates.

And when you saw warriors, well everything single infantryman is a warrior all armies are composed of warriors.

If you mean super ultra cc freaks that is the dark eldar. if normal warriors there is your IG if you want ancient greece warriors that can be found in fantasy more or less

this actually would be a good conversion idea for fantasy.

i don't mind having another race come into the spectrum i just don't think that spartan warriors would be the right kinda idea

Originally posted by Heliski007@Nov 19 2004, 16:45
okay well first of all the DE are not so much pirates as they are just plain plain evil. they are more evil than chaos as half of the CSM are just hypnotized by one of the various gods and they do the bidding of the gods not of themselves and so therefore aren't as evil as they would go jump off of a cliff if i could tell them to, and actually i can in the game

The DE follow their own path and actually created Slaanesh anything that can create an evil god must be even more evil in order to create it so that is why the DE are more evil and not just pirates.

And when you saw warriors, well everything single infantryman is a warrior all armies are composed of warriors.

If you mean super ultra cc freaks that is the dark eldar. if normal warriors there is your IG if you want ancient greece warriors that can be found in fantasy more or less

this actually would be a good conversion idea for fantasy.

i don't mind having another race come into the spectrum i just don't think that spartan warriors would be the right kinda idea
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Myunderstanding was that it was the Eldar race as a whole that caused the creation of Slaanesh.In that case the Eldar just as evil as their dark cousins.

i think kroot fight for all the body's after the battle is over, not money.

but i'd like to see a lizardman army led by old ones trying to kill all da necrons again.

:rolleyes: Guh. I think that new races are exactly what 40k doesn't need. they need to upgrade the older races, like giving DE a new range of models, or at least more possibilities. Necrons need to just go away, along with the C'tan, and Chaos Terminators need a Re-modeling, need to be more dynamic, like the new SM Termies. Before any of that happens, there should be no new races, and probably won't be. The only thing I'd suggest making a new race for is to replace the Necrons. :closedeyes:

By the way, if you can't tell, I hate the Necrons. :realmad:

Originally posted by Rengaw@Nov 19 2004, 21:52
i think kroot fight for all the body's after the battle is over, not money.

but i'd like to see a lizardman army led by old ones trying to kill all da necrons again.
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Yup, why would an army of Kroot mercenaries fight for money they can't spend when they go home? They clearly get paid in weapons, as well, judging by the strange mixture of weaponry the shapers can use. I can take a Shoota and a Shuriken Pistol, for example. ;P

I always thought Necrons were slightly lame, if just because they have the 'ooh.. we're the superpowered gods of DARKNESS!' thing about them. Makes you want to do a devil sign and hum cheesy renditions of 'iron man.' Stupid necrons.

Originally posted by TSwett@Nov 19 2004, 15:50
Myunderstanding was that it was the Eldar race as a whole that caused the creation of Slaanesh.In that case the Eldar just as evil as their dark cousins.
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Don't be silly, the DE aren't nearly as bad as the eldar pre-fall. Atleast they don't worship random gods and sacrafice people. Now they just have sex, and allot, and devour souls after tormenting the previous owner.

I for one would rather them be devouring souls and having lots of kinky sex instead of going around sacraficing live babies to the gods.

I think they should replace the necron with a race capable of using the dead bodies of ANY species towards their own end. Kinda like the Flood from Halo. They p'ssd me off so much in the game but being able to take control of your enimies would be fun if I was the one doing it. That or a species of Giant purple dinasaurs named Barney led by a drunken guitar toting Kenny Rodgers.

P.S. I have always thought of the Orcs as kinda a Russian society, Obsessed with themselves, not terribly bright, and focused on bute force as opposed to finesse. Russians or Canadians.... stupid beavers.... :glare:

it is posible that teh demiurg will be the new race adn tehy will be squat under another name (the reason squats went out of fashion cos in the fluff they were wiped out by chaos) though from what i know teh next race out will be the Hrud and in comparisson they are
SPACE SKAVEN

Me personally i would like to see a new army list for the fun side of the games (like a night goblin force but for 40k)

However i too would have for a new race the lizard men coming into 40k,

A new army could be a possible corrputed TAU or some form of mutated Dark Eldar from the Chaos Powers or some form of corrupted sisters or "Twisted Sisters" or something like that. Instead of a living saint they could have a living type god like a form of C'TAN

sorry teh hrud were killed by tyranids, the ratlings were killed by chaos, my mistake got them mized up must be them both being so small

Nobody wiped out the Hrud they were still alive and kicking last time i checked, apparently the Deathwatch encounters them a lot and their pressence is described as an "infestation".

Maybe the last of the Squats, a Slayer-type Army obsessed with hunting down 'Nids as revenge for what they did to their race.
Maybe a more mystic (but not Eldar) honour-obsessed Ancient Japan-type army. A Slann-type (but not fat, just levitating ascetic wizardish guy) leader, super-elite (but not very tough) warriors with katanas and 12" shooting, no long ranged firepower beyond what the Mystic leaders can do (think monks, a la Crouching Tiger), and tons of character.
Maybe the Hrud.

Quickest (semi legal) way to make a new race-

With Eldar you load up on a certain type of unit forsaking all other types- i.e. only Fire Dragons.

The rest of your army is made up via the VDR rules and/or Creature design rules

The end result may look very different to the Eldar they once were.

Exodites :)

I always thought a cool idea would be another race of humans from the far reaches of the galaxy and theyve been forgotten for thousands of years. they would be sort of like a star wars army with either clones or lots and lots of robots. :P yeh thats it. n small planet of humans that use robots to do their bidding. and they have forged a giant empire simply by using robots. the robots would be like the guard in terms of stats but they could have super robots andalso robots designed for close combat. another idea would be no humans at all but like in terminator turned against them. and there are now robots that can think for themselves and these robots act as leaders. all i know is that the next army should be robots lots and lots of robots

Originally posted by RJSuperfreaky@Nov 18 2004, 01:31

Chaos - Pure Evil. Only out for themselves. No real equivalent in today's world. Based off of fantasy.


Only out for themselves? Hmm... I'd say that describes pretty much every nation! :)

What we need: 'Nids taken to the extreme. Huge beasties in small numbers, strong as hell but small attacks bad armour and other various weaknesses. I've always wanted to see the Tau (midgets!) firing at some huge.... thing and just getting torn up.

Since I have an archive of written things from GW like 20+ years ago and some stuff since, I will share some of my ideas.

~ Orks & Grechin: Expand model types to include other spore monsters... and other 'Krazy vehicles.

~ Imperial Guard: Create more female guard models, create more model types then the original cadian, revamp and recreate old models of Imperial Guard from Icy worlds or other terrain specific worlds... then give them a large bonus if they fight on it. Make a vast variety of units for Imperial Guard, Human ones.

~ Squats: While I would like for them to come back, seeing as I have an army in storage of squats.... they never really fit into the story line as an important army. The Squats only come from a small cluster of worlds at the edge of chaos and are always fighting Orks and Grechin.... not including their inability to really work well together outside their clans... no, never would they have been able to make a good army in the sheer size of the GW universe. Not to mention their inability to make proper space faring ships. No, if this race comes back it will either be as a ally suppliment for the Guard or will have to face some serious revamping.

~ Space Marines: They are being worked on...

~ Necrons: Despite my dislike for them, they fit the story. Necrons have been showing up in GW art for over 20 years and have been mentioned time and time again. I think though that they should have a bit more expansion though. I know they are supposed to be terminator like but damn ... they need to expand this army to the way it is described in literature.... Necrons supposedly cull the galaxy, but at the same time collect certain beings, beings who in GW are called "Nulls". This null works against demons but empowers Necrons somehow. I recommend that they expand the army of Necrons to include human allies, those allies that are in stages of transformation into pariahs (or whatever they turn into). Also, the whole star god thing.... well that should only be in very large armies... since Storyline wise they would only run fleets, not some small ground army. Let the Tomb Lords be the normal army commanders. Although in my personal opinion... the normal troops are a bit too strong... would be better if their objectives were changed to make more troops by "assimilating" human populations they capture, thus making them more of a threat to all other races... as well as give GW a reason to make weaker bulk ground troops.

~ Eldar: I will say this once... Make the Avatar a GOD, if you have to increase points to do this then do so... make Eldar players feel that they are bringing a GOD on the field, not some souped up hand to hand Commander. Bring back all the units they took away... Harquins, Star Cannons, etc. (They might have, I have been out of touch these past 4 years).

~ Witch Hunters: EXPAND. Simply put. I don't like having to buy Archive material.... And that gets old quick. Sisters of battle are ok. Arbites need revamping as full allies. Would be nice to have some Fluff characters again, ones that don't hold a lot of individual power but because they are on the board they can command other special forces.... such as Navigators with their retinue of loyalist troops. Navigators are mutants, yes... but tolerable ones even for Sisters of Battle.

~ Demon Hunters: Don't know.

~ Tau: This army, while I dislike it for its Anime feel in a Gothic like universe... I think it adds to the background a bit. Due to the fluff given to this army in both books, games and descriptions... this army should have way more access to allies then just Kroot. Granted Kroot are their main mercs, but in the books and descriptions of this army they should have access to all the other minor races out in the galaxy. Also, make it so that the Tau have to either have a certain % of allies in an army or suffer certain penalties as to how much heavy support they can muster. All the background aliens that exist in GW literature should have some models to represent in the Tau army as allies. Read the Last Chancers Novel, the one where they actually go to on the main Tau worlds. The Tau should have access to many different types of Mercs, including Imperial Defectors, Renegades, etc.

~: Edit :~

~ Tyranids: Need more model varieties. It would be really nice to see a 'nid army that could have access to a Gene Stealer Primarch, or the many different Gene Stealer generations that remain partially human... including the very much human looking ones. Maybey a customization kit put out by GW for this exact purpose, if they are unwilling to change them more in models. They are supposed to be hordes and hordes yes... but they are also supposed to be many many more types.

~ Chaos: Ok, since it has been mentioned many times in the past.... Artwork Revamping. Also would like to see chaos with access to many more types of models, not just free reign to customize anything.. I mean as in Chaos Tyranids (ones that got converted or lost contact with the hive mind), Chaos Altered Eldar, Chaos Altered Aliens, Chaos Altered Necrons?... at the very least Chaos should be able to have access to more allies as both Chaos and non... such as access to Dark Eldar, Kroot, etc.

~ Dark Eldar: I like it how it is... fast striking corsair force. I would like to see them eventually evolve into more, but along with a story line.

I always thought that a branch of mankind that still uses the STC Designs and Dark Age technology would be interesting, it would be one of those army lists you'd have to convert but it would be uniquely interesting.

And there is at least some amount of fluff supporting the presence of groups like this, one old piece of fluff had Space Marines stumbling on a machine producing Men of Iron.

I'm going to slowly piece together something for this as I've interested myself now.

I have to agree with the others here saying they should keep working on the present races, not only because they need it but the simple fact that creating a new race is practically impossible now with making it similar to a present one.

With men of iron its just gonna be necrons who look a little different. The spartan idea is basically the space marines. The warp based race someone mentioned would be all to close to the Eldar.

I just see it as very hard to create anything close to original.

There are so many variation armies that should be made available first.

Like all the different imperial guard types, adeptus mechanicus armies, exodites etc etc. There is still alot of things missing.

I would love to see a new race but i just dont see it happening without just another fantasy cross-over of impeechment of an already existing race.

The squats are still around, look at the demiurg ships that you can get in BFG.

Which recommends itself to me as:

Gue'squata'la!

Yes! The Tau rescued squts from the tyranids and now squats work for the Tau! In mini-terminator suits, providing a heavy-hitting backup for the always present kroot. It would work so well.

Originally posted by Sandhawk03@Nov 22 2004, 11:54
The squats are still around, look at the demiurg ships that you can get in BFG.

Which recommends itself to me as:

Gue'squata'la!

Yes! The Tau rescued squats from the tyranids and now squats work for the Tau! In mini-terminator suits, providing a heavy-hitting backup for the always present kroot. It would work so well.
255074

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Better by far than my "Nidslayer" idea! People don't like playing unarmoured armies in 40k.
And I once had an idea of using Deathwing rules to proxy an army of robots (remember the old Imperial Robots). Termy = standard robot Dread = heavy robot Land Raider = transporter. And I even thought of a landing craft using Thunderhawk rules!

alright forget squats 3 words codex: ghost hunters these aren't no space marines these are chaos eldar but not dark eldar they'd be covered in flames and would hunt ghosts to get power for like some machine that would do something like unlock the secret of imortality :blink: and to get ghosts they have to kill stuff and roll a dice to cature the ghost on 5+ and if they get 25 ghost they win the game :blink:

I've heard a rumour about next RACE(S)... Sorry i can't remember where...

1. Army of Tech-Priests of Mars,Adeptus Mechanicus. (for the coming of Machine God (The Dragon)...

2. There'll be a union of space marines... Some chapters'll be united, some'll be divided... (I think this is related with this Cypher thing and Star Child...)

but as i say this is just a rumour...

I side with those who say "improve the other armies."

I consider myself a pretty creative person, and I have a lot of ideas, some I've even sculpted, for new types of warriors and weaponry that would add more to the strategic element of the game, as well as some satisfying fluff.

The problem is that no idea that I've heard or thought of is original enough to not be just a cool new unit or branch for an existing army. And I personally don't want to get the eye-rolling what-the-hell? feeling that I have when I read about Ogre Kingdoms for fantasy, as if my game is being devalued. (I find the idea so, so stupid, and if I was a Wood Elf player I would boycott. Putting off an entire ESTABLISHED loyal customer base to come out with a dumpy new army book and dumpy new minis for a dumpy new army? Just think, it may be your favorite fantasy army next. That's just my opinion, please don't flame me if you love the ogres.)

Overall, the truth is that GW can't keep up to date with the armies that it has. To me, the integrity of fantasy is dying, and now that I am absolutely fanatical about 40k, I hope they don't pull the same stuff.

My two cents.

Dre3013

I agree with dre3013 cos I think fantasy been neglected.Its fluff is good(opinion)armies kinda suck. I disagree with people who say fantasy is rubbish cos its slow moving,well in our history battles were alot more slow,nowadays people run across battles swearing and shooting with guns,so in 40k its gonna be a lot faster!

Thanks :)

They need to do like the Space Negros or IG Rastas.

I highly doubt they will come out with another armie for some time, They just got out i think 2 new armys, tons of new stuff for the SM, and a new codex. GW is working their butts off i would say! They will generally just make new units. :)

Sorry if this contradicts fluff or sounds stupid, I don't know much about the Tyranids, but howbout an army of Genestealers? I remember reading something about Genestealer cults, where the Genestealers impregnated certain people with Genestealer DNA, resulting in wierd and evil hybrid mutant families who prepared the galaxy for the Tyranid advance. Well what if one of these Cults had decided to rebel against the Tyranids and devote themselves solely to their own gain? we could get an entirely mutant army who could combine the abilities of many other races along with their own biological deviances. This could be an oppurtunity to field many differant armies, Genestealer Humans, Genestealer Eldar, Genestealer Tau etc. Games Workshop could give us Genetic Codes which could act like Imperial Guard Doctrines and allow players to create their own individual force.
Feedback Please.

Originally posted by Elirinchal El-Gilad@Dec 6 2004, 02:29
Sorry if this contradicts fluff or sounds stupid, I don't know much about the Tyranids, but howbout an army of Genestealers? I remember reading something about Genestealer cults, where the Genestealers impregnated certain people with Genestealer DNA, resulting in wierd and evil hybrid mutant families who prepared the galaxy for the Tyranid advance. Well what if one of these Cults had decided to rebel against the Tyranids and devote themselves solely to their own gain? we could get an entirely mutant army who could combine the abilities of many other races along with their own biological deviances. This could be an oppurtunity to field many differant armies, Genestealer Humans, Genestealer Eldar, Genestealer Tau etc. Games Workshop could give us Genetic Codes which could act like Imperial Guard Doctrines and allow players to create their own individual force.
Feedback Please.
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I think it can be a good idea. However i would do that without separing it from tyranid. Genes cult is the army who acts behind the enemy lines for the nids, they don´t think nid are the enemy.

No more armies, more units for the armies! Necrons are so underpopulated..

Originally posted by Mintaka@Nov 23 2004, 00:23
~ Squats: While I would like for them to come back, seeing as I have an army in storage of squats.... they never really fit into the story line as an important army. The Squats only come from a small cluster of worlds at the edge of chaos and are always fighting Orks and Grechin.... not including their inability to really work well together outside their clans... no, never would they have been able to make a good army in the sheer size of the GW universe. Not to mention their inability to make proper space faring ships. No, if this race comes back it will either be as a ally suppliment for the Guard or will have to face some serious revamping.
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I am in the same boat as you - 10000 points worth of squats stuffed away, and all those idiots saying to use them as imperial guard - it just isn't the same.

Ok, the squats did have 700 leagues - they aren't small time. And they did work together outside of their clans. They did have space craft, the warp storms just cut them of from human space until recently.

Oh, and they are a major part of the imperial guard with whole regiments being made up of squats. They are also the only other races that has been trusted enough to have members become high lords of terra (albeit not many).

Ok onto the actual topic of the thread: New possible armies.

All these armies exist in theory, they just haven't really been expanded on enough so far:

Imperial beastmen (as a subgroup of imperial guard - 2 figures exist).
Chaos beastmen - bring them back.
Chaos Squats (I know - a whole 11 models were made).
Chaos Eldar - worshippers of slannesh. (I'm not up to date with eldar fluff - can they exist).
Chaos Genestealer cult / guard army (I know journal rules exist - they aren't good enough).
Harlequins - updated and official rules (I know old journal rules exist).

I am particularly after some of these as I have squat, chaos genestealer cult and harlequin armies that have been inactive since first or second edition.

I would have to say....
Either new human armies (so no new races) that exist outside the imperium.
A whole planet of independent rogue traders for instance.

What I made up myself:

A race of elemental beings.
Someone mentioned psykers moving around boulders or something...
I'm thinking, 'boulders' that have a psyche of their own, and trees, icebergs, and so on. So 100% biological entities but not like Tyranids.
They'd have to write some good fluff for it, a race of elemental beings that works together for some reason.
On the other hand, a race of 100% biological beasts that are out to eat everything......not that good fluff eather.

Another thing I thought of, a race that isn't made up of humanoids. I mean even the race that looks least like humans, which is tyranids, most of the models have arms & legs. It's hard for me to imagine that if there is other intelligent life in the universe, that they all have a head, arms, legs and a torso.....



Originally posted by NurgleWarlord@ Posted Dec 1 2004, 19:17
I agree with dre3013 cos I think fantasy been neglected.Its fluff is good(opinion)armies kinda suck. I disagree with people who say fantasy is rubbish cos its slow moving,well in our history battles were alot more slow,nowadays people run across battles swearing and shooting with guns,so in 40k its gonna be a lot faster!

Thanks smile.gif

It's clear you are a soldier that has been to battle recently, that's exactly the way it goes...... <_<



Oh and I think they should make an emperor model (without the golden throne) because it's clear from some fluff in the Inquisitor rulebook that the technology to revive him existed, or at least almost....

Im annoyed that GW havnt done a official non-imperium humans! :angry: They could have a official Pirate list and just other Human Ideas.

Originally posted by Elirinchal El-Gilad@Dec 6 2004, 19:29
Sorry if this contradicts fluff or sounds stupid, I don't know much about the Tyranids, but howbout an army of Genestealers? I remember reading something about Genestealer cults, where the Genestealers impregnated certain people with Genestealer DNA, resulting in wierd and evil hybrid mutant families who prepared the galaxy for the Tyranid advance. Well what if one of these Cults had decided to rebel against the Tyranids and devote themselves solely to their own gain? we could get an entirely mutant army who could combine the abilities of many other races along with their own biological deviances. This could be an oppurtunity to field many differant armies, Genestealer Humans, Genestealer Eldar, Genestealer Tau etc. Games Workshop could give us Genetic Codes which could act like Imperial Guard Doctrines and allow players to create their own individual force.
Feedback Please.
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There is a journal genestealer cult list around. Basically genestealers and weak imperial guard.

Genestealers wouldn't need to rebel, according to the fluff, genestealers don't know they are part of the tyranid advance. They think of themselves as an independent race intent on taking over as many people as possible. It is only when the hive mind get close that their own personalities are taken over by it. (many think that the genestealers are not even originally a tyranid race).

The original genestealer cult list represented a cult that was down on its luck and decided to worship chaos as a last resort. So you got possessed genestealer patriarchs, deamons, imperial guard cultists, beastmen, spawn and a couple (not many) of genestealers. Not many genestealers because they actually take 4 generations to breed. (where hybrids are the first 4 generations).

In general, humans are the only major race worth dominating, because all the other races natural life cycles are a 'lot' longer. Eldar don't breed quickly and wouldn't really get passed other eldar in their society (to much psychic scanning). Orks can and have been made into hybrids, but their breeding cycle only occurs right at the end of their lives (old fluff before they were plants) and so it would take hundreds of years to put together a decent force. There were actually ork freebooter genestealers at one stage - because you couldn't make a full army of them.

maybee they shoud add space giants

for new army i would vote something totaly robotic, but not necron robotic, no warp powers, just machine. i guess i could say a matrix army, but i dont really want to relate it to matrix, its just the machines there make to good an example of what i'm talking about to not use it. i know the imperium got hit by the whole machine revolution in the dark ages and beat it back before the emperor, but whos to say that some other race fought that battle too, but lost.

well as i have said before in other forums is that i got a cool idea of a race that i'm going to post all my gathered info toghether later :D. But i think that they could add a race here and there but still improve the others. But i think there is a limit, you cant just be like dungeons and dragons and have never ending amount of types of things you use then learning about your opponent will be so much harder. But i can see them adding a few more and me being fine with it and thinking it is really cool, but i mean its possible they add something and its just a failure and is stupid.

How ironic that Genestealers turned out to be Tyranids when if anything they were mentally the opposite. They had strong family ties and were in many ways more human than humans. However the Workshop went ahead and made them another bunch of Nids.

We hates them! We hates them! they stole our precious!

Originally posted by Tainted Rose@Dec 16 2004, 13:31
How ironic that Genestealers turned out to be Tyranids when if anything they were mentally the opposite. They had strong family ties and were in many ways more human than humans. However the Workshop went ahead and made them another bunch of Nids.

We hates them! We hates them! they stole our precious!
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Very, very strong family ties... Psychic in fact.

I don't think any of the humans in a genestealer army are there on their own free will - they think they have family ties with the genestealers but it's instilled into them.

Originally posted by Skutch - Space Wolf@Dec 8 2004, 13:46
I would have to say....
Either new human armies (so no new races) that exist outside the imperium.
A whole planet of independent rogue traders for instance.

What I made up myself:

A race of elemental beings.
Someone mentioned psykers moving around boulders or something...
I'm thinking, 'boulders' that have a psyche of their own, and trees, icebergs, and so on. So 100% biological entities but not like Tyranids.
They'd have to write some good fluff for it, a race of elemental beings that works together for some reason.
On the other hand, a race of 100% biological beasts that are out to eat everything......not that good fluff eather.

Another thing I thought of, a race that isn't made up of humanoids. I mean even the race that looks least like humans, which is tyranids, most of the models have arms & legs. It's hard for me to imagine that if there is other intelligent life in the universe, that they all have a head, arms, legs and a torso.....
It's clear you are a soldier that has been to battle recently, that's exactly the way it goes...... <_<
Oh and I think they should make an emperor model (without the golden throne) because it's clear from some fluff in the Inquisitor rulebook that the technology to revive him existed, or at least almost....
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that sems like a fantasy army see people keep thinking of cool stuff that just isnt fit for 40k i mean think about it fantasy elementals will go by and be thought of as cool in a heart beat but think about it its not very futuristic at all. Also a emperor model will prolly be made lol because darn GW loves the marines so much, but i mean it would be so many points because it'd be made so strong that it just wouldnt be worth it.

Originally posted by moody@Dec 15 2004, 19:49
Very, very strong family ties... Psychic in fact.

I don't think any of the humans in a genestealer army are there on their own free will - they think they have family ties with the genestealers but it's instilled into them.
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Index Xenos said the urge to protect Hybrids and Genestealers was based on the usual parental protection instincts. Esentially they have free will but it is manipulated in that they consider a 4 armed monster their kid.

Originally posted by Tainted Rose@Dec 16 2004, 14:23
Index Xenos said the urge to protect Hybrids and Genestealers was based on the usual parental protection instincts. Esentially they have free will but it is manipulated in that they consider a 4 armed monster their kid.
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But they have family ties to the stealers as soon as they are hypnotised. The hybrids don't come until at least 9 months later.

Im a bit confused as to how family ties and hypnosis makes the stealers more human than humans. I for one feel very strong ties to my family and I believe that there would be circumstances where I would kill to protect them. I certainly wouldnt kill a kid of mine if it was born with extra limbs, Id wanna protect it from people who might wanna hurt it.

Perhaps it is merely a manipulation of my mammalian instincts to nurture and protect my young, into an instinct to protect my extended clan, such as the indoctrination of recruits in the armed forces to look upon their superiors as surrogate-parent figures. I don't see anything alien or extrahuman about the bonds within a genestealer family - its a natural thing

You could say Tyranids are the biggest, closest family in the whole universe.

*poster suggests Space Skaven and Lizardmen*

please type correctly

i would like to see somthing like the fremen (from dune) have them as planetry nomads with weirding weapons and kriz knifes :rofl:

And the sandworms! Don't forget the sandworms! They'd cost about 1000 points each, but imagine your opponent's reaction when one popped out under his army!

Originally posted by Blood_crazed_squigeon@Dec 19 2004, 07:50
And the sandworms! Don't forget the sandworms! They'd cost about 1000 points each, but imagine your opponent's reaction when one popped out under his army!
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Unless your army didn't have a sense of rhythm?

how about massive dinosuar boned creatueres held together by mech joints and what not.And they a special save where the bullets pass threw the bones when somthing is shooting them. :huh: just an idea

Can someone with the Tyranid Monster Design rules please post up rules for a Sandworm in Rules Development? The Creature Feature rules don't allow for something THAT BIG! we're talking 8 to 10 Mass Points here!

Noooo that would be terrible imagine more than half your army dieing because of some small little genestealers or some impalers that would suck terribly. So instead of making them so expensive tone down there greatness and make it 500 points. Then you can add in crap to kill those little guys before they kill you.


lol and you could have a beetle juice guys for your HQ :P



but beetle juice is gross ugly, fugly, stupid, and dumb so i take that back

Why bother making up new races when there are plenty of others.

I think they should do a big Eldar codex. DE,Harlies and Eldar.

Tau should be allowed to have different mercs except from KROOT! They let others join.

As I said before a pirate list.

Hrud-codex

Demiurg-codex

Thanks

Maybe use Lance Strike rules for a Sandworm. Think about it. It's unkillable (like the Lance Strike), its mouth is the size of an Ordnance template, it deviates randomly, and pretty much nothing is going to survive it. Just have it roll 2d6 and add them for AP, and have it do d6 wounds to anything it wounds but cannot insta-kill (like a Wraithlord). 120 points, and remove the 0-1. For the rest of the Fremen, they're Guard with a big buncha doctrines. Light infantry definitely, cameleoline (they are experts at hiding) and Warrior Weapons (representing maula pistol and crysknife).

I think I read something about a Codex: Alien Hunters? in WD. Don't know whether that's related to any of this or not...sounds like it could be a good army though. Daemonhunters are awesome against Daemons, but not many people have Daemons! Tons of players have Xenos however, if they are as good at fighting Xenos as daemonhunters are daemons, i'm getting them! :lol:

Originally posted by SPACMARINE@Dec 20 2004, 03:00
I think I read something about a Codex: Alien Hunters? in WD. Don't know whether that's related to any of this or not...sounds like it could be a good army though. Daemonhunters are awesome against Daemons, but not many people have Daemons! Tons of players have Xenos however, if they are as good at fighting Xenos as daemonhunters are daemons, i'm getting them! :lol:
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It would seem a logical step, we got demonhunters, we got Witch Hunters the next thing we need is Alien hunters.

the next one should be ordo Xeno (alien hunters) but there is a chance of the squats being revived in the form of the demiurg :hmm:

Originally posted by The Arklite@Dec 22 2004, 05:43
the next one should be ordo Xeno (alien hunters) but there is a chance of the squats being revived in the form of the demiurg :hmm:
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Don't count on it.

My friend had some crazy ideas that GW could make rules to let slann (lizardman of fantasy I think) being able to fight in 40k. Because the old ones made eldar slann and some other races it would seem logical the slann would be able to fight against the necrons later on. Just a ID

I would think that that would be very cool.

I think it's the eldar codex getting revisited next, then the tyranids. I heard a lot about the ordo xenos a while back but the rumor din has died down. And yah, don't hold breaths on demurig or slan. Though I think the slan would be cool.

Originally posted by Archonbjorn@Dec 23 2004, 09:36
My friend had some crazy ideas that GW could make rules to let slann (lizardman of fantasy I think) being able to fight in 40k. Because the old ones made eldar slann and some other races it would seem logical the slann would be able to fight against the necrons later on. Just a ID
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Slann were in rogue trader. Look them up - there is no way that they are coming back if they are anything like the originals.

i don't know if this has already been said (judging from the people are posting in this topic, i'd say it has :D ) but i think they should do a hrud army.

i read at the beginning of the thread someone said that the hrud could be an assualt army...

NOOOOO!!!!! ugh. haven't you read the 3rd edition rule book? the hrud are in the picture with the kroot and necron. they are nocturnal snipers. small, rat-like creatures (space dwarves/space skaven mixed?), not small, rat-like tyranids. thing is, they would probably only have an advantage in nightfighting, and be at a disadvantage in normal... unless they invented some kind of anti-night vision goggles, like something to make it darker outside... like sunglasses! yes, small, rat-like creatures with sniper rifles and sunglasses! ... I'm a genius!

I think if GW is going to introduce a new army to 40k it should be something unrelated to everything else. Go for something similar to a shadow army (similar to Babylon 5). The universe is supposed to be made up of something like 80% dark matter so who is to say there isn't a race that is made up of it. Maybe the warp has destabilised the barrier between light and dark matter and the shadows have been allowed to cross over. They could have force fields on their tanks that cause them to flicker between light and dark so normal energy weapons wouldn't be as effective. And instead of deep striking they would just form out of shadows and fight.

A giant race of snails and other Molluscs. Giant things with shells that spit slime and they have a rule they can "jump" an extra 6". How wonderful!

A cool race would be like one based on War of the worlds. A race tht has evoled passed its phisical bodys and use machines for everything. And farms worlds for the indiginous life to feed upon them drinking their blood and enslaving them. Then creating their empire from scratch in a new galaxy.

you know what... GW ought to do a Codex: Kroot. expand them a bit, and take the focus away from being mercenaries for the Tau. i know they did this with chapter approved (i've been playing Chapter Approved kroot for two years now!), but they should expand it a bit. here are some things i think they could change:

1. USEFULL evolutionary adaptations. the ones they have now aren't that great. everyone either uses fast reflexes (+1 initiative) or ork hybrid (+1 toughness). the other ones are either dumb or over-priced.

2. give the trackers normal kroot rifles. whose idea was it to give the cavalry sniper rifles??? they can't use the rifles if they move, which is the whole point of mounting them!

3. lower the price of the krootox. it would be okay if it weren't so darn expensive.

4. give an armor upgrade. i believe kroot is the only army list where the best save (and only one guy per army) is a 5+!!! nothing major, like a kroot terminator, but something.

5. expand the wargear. i find it hard to believe that i can give my shaper a shoota and a shuriken pistol, but they can't find a heavy bolter to strap onto a knarklock.

6. expand the options. they say that kroot are one of the most flexible, customizable armies, when they don't have any options for squads (the only one is giving them frag grenades!! thats all!!).

other than this stuff, perhaps a couple of new troops/elites/fast attack/heavy support choices (hehe) and take out the head hunters. they only limit the number of attacks, and masses of attacks is the kroots stronghold.

kroot are really one of the coolest armies out there, GW just needs to explore their awesomeness!

kroot are a very good army - Ive not seen one lose a game yet. I was tempted to start an army of them but was put off by the sheer number of models Id have to get, but it was tempting nonetheless.
I wouldnt want them to get rid of head hunters, theyre a very characterful unit, but I do agree with your other points, particularly the trackers, what a useless waste of points, when you can have kroot snipers at 10 points each.
It would be nice to see a kroot army where they utelise more of the varient kroot evolutionary paths, like the ox, hound and that one from forgeworld (damn sieve memory). I would like to see a dedicated flying beast, or a unit of kroot that sit on top of flying beasts, which would be something unique in 40K. the kroot also need a unit that can easily dispose of armoured vehicles. Im not sure if I would err towards a large beastie or a large gun... I wonder if kroot ever ate a squiggoth?

I'm glad to see that people remember the Squats. Maybe they're worth bringing back if they had a little more character than just being a wing of the Imperium. Games Workshop should play up their drunkeness or something so that the race as a whole has personality quirks that make players get excited about leading their armies. I'm thinking that they could be the opposite of fleet of foot (super slow and cubersome) but be the sweetest enginneers of the time. Contraptions, contraptions, contraptions. Imagine a 40k gyrocopter type squad along with the classic harley chopper bike squads... they could be something really special!

But i do agree with eveyone in this post... finish the armies you started Games Workshop! I'm sick of not having a codex for an army and then seeing 3 new armies come out or a new edition to the rules.

If I could invent a new army it would definitly be all winged. Think Alfred Hitchcock's "The Birds". Lots and lots of very fast troops that can hit and run and are not to great individially, but put into massive squads can overwhelm the enemy. I always liked how the old rules swooping hawks used to play... hopping all around the field of play and dropping grenades and really hard to hit but weak when you did make contact. I'd want this race to be very advanced and noble so they'd be a counter point to the Tyranids hive mind swarm army mentality.

_warPEZ

Although this is a very popular subject i think it has been done to death.

Definatly no squats. dwarfs on bikes? <_< how does super slow goe with bikes and gyros

A cool race would be like one based on War of the worlds. A race tht has evoled passed its phisical bodys and use machines for everything. And farms worlds for the indiginous life to feed upon them drinking their blood and enslaving them. Then creating their empire from scratch in a new galaxy.

Have you ever read the fluff for the necrons?very similar overall.

The universe is supposed to be made up of something like 80% dark matter so who is to say there isn't a race that is made up of it. Maybe the warp has destabilised the barrier between light and dark matter and the shadows have been allowed to cross over. They could have force fields on their tanks that cause them to flicker between light and dark so normal energy weapons wouldn't be as effective. And instead of deep striking they would just form out of shadows and fight.

trouble with that is its pretty much impossible. As far as i know theres no such thing as a barrier between "light" and dark matter. when dark matter comes into contact with the other type of matter enormus amounts of energy is released, which would mean, the army would disappear in a pile of pie plates.Dark matter cant change into "light" matter and visa versa, even if there is a hell of a lots of it.
shadows are the absence of light, or radiation, they are not made by dark matter.
of course everything is possible in an infinate universe, but dont forget the act of observing can change the event.

of course i could be totally wrong.

i think they should overhaul some armies rather than create new ones.

Originally posted by Random Zwerg@Dec 26 2004, 16:14
Although this is a very popular subject i think it has been done to death.

Definatly no squats. dwarfs on bikes? <_< how does super slow goe with bikes and gyros
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Ideally I think. If you were slow wouldn't you want to be drivin something fast to make up for it?

By your logic, tyranids should have high speed transports.

actually I like the way that GW keeps adding new races and armies. Im tired of facing the same old armies and at the very least, creating new armies at least makes more stuff for my bits box. I dont care if it takes them a couple of years longer to bring out harlequins, or demiurg, or plastic valhallens, because I am confident that when they arrive they will be worth the wait. who on this forum remembers the gap between the first landraider and the new one being released? that wait was a bloody long one, but the model, when it finally came, heralded a completely new style of SM vehicles, a new way of detailing the interior and a new way of having fully mobile weapons. it was quite simply, a wonderful model. Have some faith in GW, I like all the models released, the fantasy of the game and the increasing universe.

xeno hunters...all im gonna say.

IC a Wiener ... all Im gonna say

thats cute...really it was good. its only the 9th time ive heard it in the last 15 minutes you twit.

I really wouldn't want a new army.In the last little while we've had witch hunters, a new army. We don't need another one for a while. New players might be overwhelmed by the choice. Plus I would prefer the upgrading and expanding of the current armies. Some need more units, some need better models (*cough* DE)

SOmething that would be good is haveing a rule book for every space marine first founding chapter

A race of amphibianesque people would be a change. But I don't know how they would fit into the fluff of the whole 40k universe.

Id like to see a book of bounty hunters and mercenaries, but I dont see a way to fit them in with any of the imperial fluff, who all consider consorting with xenos and non imperium humans to be heresy

Sorry to get break in, but I just wanted to say that whoever who started this topic (can't remember your name) you made a very good dissection of the armies. I just wanted to say that's one of the smartest things I've read in a long time. Give credit when credit is due.
Just to adapt what you said:
Marines: The US.
IG: 1940's Russia and Europe.
Tyrannids: If you think about it, almost every game has 'bugs'. Remember Starcraft, Dark Planet, even movies like Starship Troopers, AVP, I could go on. Any game that has humans always has 'bugs'.
Orks: in any fantasy game or book (LOTR) you have them. They also represent the guerillas of unorganized war. Exa. Africian factions and terrorists.
Chaos: Evil. You've got to have a 'bad guy'. Represents the cancer of unstoppable evil.
Eldar: Very good dissection. Also they are the "aliens". Ya gotta have aliens. France and Germany. Germany fits this perfectly.
DE: like you said: pirates. arg!! Just kidding.
Necrons: the 'skeletons'. Like chaos.
Tau: PERFECT translation. New Japan. Just think: The "EASTERN FRINGE"? Who else could that be? Japan: the eastern fringe of the world. VERY advanced. Come on, robots!
The problem with GW is that any country falls under these catagories. They basically ran out of new ideas. I don't mean new SM chapters, but truely new original ideas.

What 40k really needs is more diversity. I vould love to design my own craftworld, with my own special rules that were useable in official games, instead of just playing Ultwhé. And woudnt it be great if one were allowed to arm guardian defenders with tactical weapons, instead of just catapults? Or is there some fluffy reason why no eldar can fire a flamer unless the guy next to him is carrying a sword? It annoys the sh*t out of me...

However... If we needed anothere army, why not let the Kroot stand alone?They could make a cool army with a few additions. And the Tau could get some cc units to replace the Carnivores, heck, they are like space-samurai anyway, so why not have a squad armed with power-katanas?

Well, since the C'tan have returned, I'd love to see the Old Ones kick back into action. The ancient protectors of mankind - Lizardmen. The technology would still be Aztec/South-American style, but newer technology. That'd be sweet. And someone on the first page said something about Lizardmen 40k using the warp. Um, I think they'd stay as far away from the warp as possible. But it wouldn't be too difficult to make new Saurus warriors for 40k. Practically the same, but with more/thicker armour. Kroxigor shouldn't have weapons, but they have a Lightning-claw equivalent. Sort of like large gorilla-lizards...

All over the army wouldn't be particularly advanced, but at the same time, all their equipment is Psychically improved/built. The Slann in WH were all important, because they were all ancient. But the Old Ones DID take them from another planet. So they could still exist.

There is a pictre in the new 40k rulebook of what appears to be a lizardman in it.

TAU Master - most of wht you said was valid, but l;et me just point out that Orks are te opposite of Guerrillas. Guerillas are anything but disorganised - the whole point of them is that they use highly coordinated and sophisticated hit and run attacks to deplete the enemy of morale, strength and supplies, while ensuring that they themselves suffer as few casualties as possible. You said about giving credit where credit is due. try being more objective when it comes to criticizing other cultures methods of war

One word: Space Dolphins. Think about it.....

Two words?

Originally posted by Mikhail The Heretic@Feb 3 2005, 07:29
There is a pictre in the new 40k rulebook of what appears to be a lizardman in it.
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I believe you are speaking of the picture of the "Slanni" on page 139.

And, indeed, it has its similarities to a Lizardman. A Lizardmen army would be really neat, but they would need to come up with something to diversify from the Orks and the Tyranids, as a Lizardmen army would undoubtedly be CC-based.

I really like the idea of mercenaries. There are a stack of rogue traders with private armies out there who could be semi-loyal to the Imperium, like the old Privateers in Elizabethan times, plus there are human's who wouldn't give a toss about fighting beside Aleins. As the fluff always says, "the universe is a big place"

You could have mixed armies with a few races inn them or you could add em to some other armies like DoW in Fantasy.

Originally posted by TAU Master@Feb 3 2005, 03:34
Sorry to get break in, but I just wanted to say that whoever who started this topic (can't remember your name) you made a very good dissection of the armies. I just wanted to say that's one of the smartest things I've read in a long time. Give credit when credit is due.
Just to adapt what you said:
Marines: The US.
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Ok you lost me! how are Space Marines American?

I mean Space Marines do not fight for democracy most of the time they actively try and stamp it out!

That is the last I will hear on the subject it is already too close to politics for my liking.

Originally posted by Deadly Nightshade@Feb 4 2005, 14:17
Ok you lost me! how are Space Marines American?

I mean Space Marines do not fight for democracy most of the time they actively try and stamp it out!

That is the last I will hear on the subject it is already too close to politics for my liking.
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Sorry to butt in Deadly, I'll say my piece and I'll take my punishment as it comes. Do feel free to remove this post if you like, and any that directly answer it.

Much as I hate to say it, the Tau resemble the American military rather more than the Space Marines. They believe that technology and tactics will rule the day, but cannot handle the cut and thrust of close-in fighting. I also see parallels with the insidious spread of bland culture and lack of insight into other cultures.

Originally posted by Deadly Nightshade@Feb 4 2005, 07:17
Ok you lost me! how are Space Marines American?

I mean Space Marines do not fight for democracy most of the time they actively try and stamp it out!

That is the last I will hear on the subject it is already too close to politics for my liking.
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So the Americans are the same as my lot? I beg to differ. I consider my self old European as apposed to the 53rd state.
I don’t see why you would what to be called a happy space Fascist anyway. Its not like you have genetically engineered super soldiers (or ever will with the lack of stem cell research).

/looks out the office window at the center for life Research building

I have always thought of all the races as being somewhat evil with nothing but there own survival/power of any interest to them. Anyway the Imperium is like dark ages Europe with a small number of educated people running the place while the masses live in ignorance and superstition, of course that leaves us open for a second renaissance. The Emperor is Mesopotamian anyway. And the idea of the Asians being the new up and coming race is silly. China is the oldest continual Civilisation in the world.

I don’t think they will any new races for quite a while.3rd edition had 2 (dark eldar and the tau). It will be years away after a revamp of all the books. You may get the ordos Xeno and the eldar splinter races and that’s it. I would like to see more Eye of Terror like books in the future. Pushing the story line along. In light of the eye of terror we have a huge realm of possibilities sorry wise. They could in effect start the end times now and stretch it out over the next 20 years real world. It is not like it will happen over night. They could bring back the Primarchs and revive the emperor. Anything they wanted…

Originally posted by Draegath@Dec 16 2004, 14:43
Im a bit confused as to how family ties and hypnosis makes the stealers more human than humans. I for one feel very strong ties to my family and I believe that there would be circumstances where I would kill to protect them. I certainly wouldnt kill a kid of mine if it was born with extra limbs, Id wanna protect it from people who might wanna hurt it.

Perhaps it is merely a manipulation of my mammalian instincts to nurture and protect my young, into an instinct to protect my extended clan, such as the indoctrination of recruits in the armed forces to look upon their superiors as surrogate-parent figures. I don't see anything alien or extrahuman about the bonds within a genestealer family - its a natural thing
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I just read this post, there has been research done that proves no one really loves their children/parent and it’s just a survival trait pumping you full of happy hormones. Hence the reason people fall out with their parents move out then there ok again. The family bond needs to be maintained but only to a certain degree based on individuals need. That’s when some one gets too old you stop bothering they are for the species more of a burden then a help.

Originally posted by TAU Master@Feb 3 2005, 02:34
Sorry to get break in, but I just wanted to say that whoever who started this topic (can't remember your name) you made a very good dissection of the armies. I just wanted to say that's one of the smartest things I've read in a long time. Give credit when credit is due.
Just to adapt what you said:
Marines: The US.
IG: 1940's Russia and Europe.
Tyrannids: If you think about it, almost every game has 'bugs'. Remember Starcraft, Dark Planet, even movies like Starship Troopers, AVP, I could go on. Any game that has humans always has 'bugs'.
Orks: in any fantasy game or book (LOTR) you have them. They also represent the guerillas of unorganized war. Exa. Africian factions and terrorists.
Chaos: Evil. You've got to have a 'bad guy'. Represents the cancer of unstoppable evil.
Eldar: Very good dissection. Also they are the "aliens". Ya gotta have aliens. France and Germany. Germany fits this perfectly.
DE: like you said: pirates. arg!! Just kidding.
Necrons: the 'skeletons'. Like chaos.
Tau: PERFECT translation. New Japan. Just think: The "EASTERN FRINGE"? Who else could that be? Japan: the eastern fringe of the world. VERY advanced. Come on, robots!
The problem with GW is that any country falls under these catagories. They basically ran out of new ideas. I don't mean new SM chapters, but truely new original ideas.
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Nids are a viruss, just scaled up. They consume all life, rapidly evolving befor they can be wiped out. Infact, stealers are even more like a virus, right down to the way a virus injects a host cell with its DNA, then the host cell turns into a virus factory.

Space Marines are not the US. Space marines are a medieval knights with tanks
They operate in semi autominous, religously devout chapters - exactly like knights, even down to the fact that knights operated in organisations called chapters too
Each chapter has its own livelry, history and traditions - just like knights
They are part elite warrior, part monk and have a tendancy to go taring off on some insane crusade - prety knight-like
Look at the power armour! its just futuristic full plate armour!

Eldar are the Germans? what? the Eldar and Dark Eldar a space-Elves, they have pointy ears! There more influenced by Tolkin than any nation.

The Imperial Garud can represent any human force from the 19th century to the 21st century depending on how you compose your IG army and the fluff you put behind it.

The Tau, wile there technology and look has a japanese feel to it, the way there empire operates is more like the Roman empire, Carthage or British empire than modern Japan. A core of well trained troops, supported by any local auxilarys they can conscript on the wat to war. The assimilation, use of native troops to plug gaps and agressive traiding is just like an old colonial empire, so is the idealialistic need to bring there empire aad civilisation to the entire galaxy. Theres aslo undertones of socialism in the Tau Empire.

Games workshop mixes and matches anchient legends, modern ideas and anything else they can get there hands on to create each races identity, they will never run out of material for this. They have 10,000 years of civilised human history to draw on and even more in the way of legend and myth. The problem is that Games workshop has to make every army play different. If they make to many armies they will just end up retracing old ground and make an army that, wile it looks cool and new, actuly just playes like a marine army. Think about it, think of a play style that cant be caterd for by at least 1 of the existing armys. If they make many more armys they will just end up detracting from the character of the existing ones as the new ones encroach on there play style. Im not saying GW shouldent introduce some new races, but they shouldent produce new races for new races sake.

Originally posted by Wert@Feb 5 2005, 09:30
The problem is that Games workshop has to make every army play different. If they make to many armies they will just end up retracing old ground and make an army that, wile it looks cool and new, actuly just playes like a marine army. Think about it, think of a play style that cant be caterd for by at least 1 of the existing armys. If they make many more armys they will just end up detracting from the character of the existing ones as the new ones encroach on there play style. Im not saying GW shouldent introduce some new races, but they shouldent produce new races for new races sake.
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There should be a stealth-based army. The style of warfare in 40k is well suited to it, but no existing army is set up this way. I want an entire army of ninjas where my whole force (even HQ) can infiltrate and set traps and generally annoy the bejesus out of my opponent. Sort of like Wood Elves in whfb only not hippies.

Sorry to get break in, but I just wanted to say that whoever who started this topic (can't remember your name) you made a very good dissection of the armies. I just wanted to say that's one of the smartest things I've read in a long time. Give credit when credit is due.
Just to adapt what you said:
Marines: The US.
IG: 1940's Russia and Europe.
Tyrannids: If you think about it, almost every game has 'bugs'. Remember Starcraft, Dark Planet, even movies like Starship Troopers, AVP, I could go on. Any game that has humans always has 'bugs'.
Orks: in any fantasy game or book (LOTR) you have them. They also represent the guerillas of unorganized war. Exa. Africian factions and terrorists.
Chaos: Evil. You've got to have a 'bad guy'. Represents the cancer of unstoppable evil.
Eldar: Very good dissection. Also they are the "aliens". Ya gotta have aliens. France and Germany. Germany fits this perfectly.
DE: like you said: pirates. arg!! Just kidding.
Necrons: the 'skeletons'. Like chaos.
Tau: PERFECT translation. New Japan. Just think: The "EASTERN FRINGE"? Who else could that be? Japan: the eastern fringe of the world. VERY advanced. Come on, robots!
The problem with GW is that any country falls under these catagories. They basically ran out of new ideas. I don't mean new SM chapters, but truely new original ideas.

I hate when people start comparing armies in 40k to the real world, afterall, it's Warhammer 40k, not Warhammer UN. It can be interesting at times, but often people just make parallels that are too simple or plain off target (not directed at Tau Master). Comparing 40k to the real world takes away from its originality, I want a game where I don't go back and say "well these guys represent the "blank" because of their culture and fighting style". I want a game that takes me away from that.

On the other hand, to base fantasy off the real world is fine in my opinion because armies (like the empire) are based off of real world cultures and civilizations.

Dru - I believe that all human emotions and actions are based on a certain degree of selfishness. Even if you do something good for someone else its to make yourself feel better. We start off, as a babe, totally selfish and concerned completely with self. As we grow we learn to curtail our selfish motives and cloud them over with supposed altruism, but at the root of it all is the sense of self.
Im not saying its a bad thing, but its the way it is.

I think thats why we consider the concept of the hive mind so alien.

You know, they actually did some research into bees and found out they will revolt. It ends up with the queen and some loyalists in one corner of the hive, and everyone else lays eggs (yes workers can lay eggs) like crazy.

Is it just me, or did this topic just wander waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay of the subject? If peploe wanna discuss bees and americans, please start a new topic. Unless you really think of americans or bees as possible new armies...

i made a really retarted attempt at a new race somewhere at the begining of the post and now im gonna make another one just to attempt to get this post back on track although i doubt anyone will actually listen to it and someone will start talkin about comparing countries to bees or something like that.
*think think think think think* :glare:

hmmmm

how bout... no that wont do

ok a race of birds now some say kroot are birds but im talkin actual birds with wings and arms and they could all move twelve inches. and if they had any soldiers moved 6" they could make them emus or somethin like that.

for tanks they would have egg shaped vehicles.

well the ideas really crap and thats probably one problem with this post none of us here are creative enough to think of an entire new army in a couple of minutes i mean gw have entire teams of artists and concept artist to think up one army and this takes them months.

and then theres all the people who dont actuall post a new army they just talk about stuff and complain. just answer the question. think of a new race

how about fish,Yes thats right, meched up fish that that have massive water cannons and get special water fighting rules :hmm: .

Well we have the bees and they all have to take a Ld test at the start of every turn or they have to move 4d6 towards the enemy and then charge them. And they all have Ld 2.

If they were fish, then they would need like a water tank to breathe. there equlivant of scuba divers. And i don't think fish have hands, and if they had bio-weapons, then they be just like the tyranids.

Maybe something like....hmmm.......i got nuthin but i like the stealth army. It be cool to have a bunch of ninjas :ph34r:

Marines: The US.

i don't think so. i'd say the guard are like the u.s., and every other army since WWI. the marines are like the roman army, the elite warriors, going out on crusades and defeating and conquering in the name of their EMPEROR. I'd acutally equate the Imperium to the Roman Empire. 1. Romans used latin, Imperium uses latin/fake latin GW made up 2. They both fight for their Emperor. 3. They take over everything they can.

Come on... i mean, the space marine commander even has the centurionesque helmet with the mane type thing. although, dire avengers in the eldar have those too, but i would still say that the Imperium is the Roman Empire 40k-style.

I want an entire army of ninjas where my whole force (even HQ) can infiltrate and set traps

umm, actually, the whole kroot force (even HQ) can infiltrate and set up traps. under the new infiltrating rules, this means that every kroot unit (except krootox, but personally, i dont't use them too often anyway) can set up 18 inches away from the enemy. 12 inches away if your enemy doesn't have line of sight!

but as i said about a million years ago, if GW were to do another army, i would vote for Codex: Kroot or Codex: Hrud. both would be cool. they both fit into the fluff better than any egg-driving birdies and "shadow-armies". heck, the kroot and hrud were in GW fluff and drawings before the tau were! (check - 3rd Edition Rule Book).

Oh yeah, the kroot! Still, I don't like the savage feel of them, and their stealth is still based on woodcraft like the Wood Elves rather than just sneakiness. They are like stereotype native trackers and scouts but I want covert operatives.

I want an army that can cover anywhere (a city, a snowfield) in booby traps and that just pops out of the ground like assassins. Maybe something like that would work with the Hrud. Actually, now I think about it, sneaky hooded ratmen is exactly what I am after! Aren't the Hrud underground dwellers? They could be perfect.

a race that isnt Bipedal ,and actaully stads on more then just the hind legs

A little of topic but i feel that i have to say this. sorry Draegath but i am going to have to disagree people are not born selfish they choose to be selfish, i have met many people who do good deeds not because they want to feel good but because they believe it to be the right thing to do. (I could give you an example of this that happened to me on saturday night if you wouold like.) That's just an excuse that people use to explain how behaviour which does not have any basis in fact.

anybody that does something good for someone else, ESPECIALLY if it is to 'do the right thing' does it out of a sense of selfishness - it is to make themselves feel better. we bond with people of a like mind who make us feel more empowered to maintain the opinions we have and interact with people as an extension of selfish interests

Selfishness is a very common reason for moral actions but not the only one. Some people behave the way they do because they are afraid of the consequences of disobedience or of being different. Many people will obey the norms for this reason even though there is no real consequence, it's just habit. In this case they are not being selfish because there is no chance they will be hurt. They are just conditioned by social rules.

Many parents will sacrifice their lives for thier children. You could say this is selfishness because it keeps their genes alive blah blah but if you say this then that makes selfishness the primary fact of human existence. That makes the concept meaningless because there is no selflessness to compare it to, so selfishness is not really anything.

Agreed robotnik people who are selfish state that everyone is, so that they can assign that quality to people who are being unselfish. I helped that girl not because it made me feel good (quite the opposite in fact) the reason that i did it is because i felt it was the right thing to do. Draegath you should not confuse human choice with human nature, people choose to be selfish just as they choose to be selfless. On the subject of why people do things i think einstein put it best "To do good for fear of punishment or want of a reward is a poor reason to do good."

Hmmm...a ninja army....somehow when i see 40k Ninjas, all i can think of is ninja grots. Those little green guys, getting all matrix on a sqaud of marines, damn that would be cool.

I think the best way to come with an army that plays differently is to think of the basic units first, and then tie them all together with fluff, then modify the units to make them more fluffy.

I'd like to see a 40k version of Wood Elves. If you transport the wood elf theme to the "modern day", you end up with....GREENPEACE!!!

They could have giant floating logs for battlefleet gothic...and...and...hippys...and...hmm maybe not?

I think its more that you are confusing the meaning of selfish with the insinuation of selfish. If you sacrifice your life for your child it is because you would rather see your child live. Being selfish is the very basis of human nature, everything we do can be linked to bettering of self. The idea that this makes selfishness nonexistant is a flawed argument - if you cannot have selfishness because it is too intrinsic to human nature, then you cannot have human nature and therefore you cannot have human emotion. We know human emotion exists, even as a chemical response, ergo selfishness exists, so it is a valid reasoning behind the nature of humanityand not an excuse as you have put it. You desperately want to beat me in this topic, to prove to yourself that you are not selfish, yet why would you want to do this if not for selfish reasons? think about that

There will be no race until a long time. yes indeed.

how sure i am? I'm pretty sure.

Seeing that the upcoming lineup is
Nids Black Templars Eldar... and... ork? and etc?


GW is still in the process of converting the other armies into 4th edition.

PLUS XENO HUNTERS aint out yet, and we all know they are going to come out... heh... bring on the deathwatch kill teams...

They will seriously need to revamp eldar, and orks, and the SM chapters.

Dark eldar too. and Eldar has many rumours of a split thing.. with harlequins and exodites possibly? all rumours.. nothing truly proven yet.



Dwarves in wh40k= NO. a shorty army, im sorry dwarves are cool and all, but not in the high tech future world... dwarves got killed long time ago in Lord of the Rings haha.

Just imagine it.. short army... just looks retarded.. and what armour should they have? Dwarves in power armour? lmao.


just doesnt fit in with the universe.


we wotn be seeing any real new alien races for a little while from now... as much work has yet to come.

Originally posted by Draegath@Feb 9 2005, 03:53
I think its more that you are confusing the meaning of selfish with the insinuation of selfish. If you sacrifice your life for your child it is because you would rather see your child live. Being selfish is the very basis of human nature, everything we do can be linked to bettering of self. The idea that this makes selfishness nonexistant is a flawed argument - if you cannot have selfishness because it is too intrinsic to human nature, then you cannot have human nature and therefore you cannot have human emotion. We know human emotion exists, even as a chemical response, ergo selfishness exists, so it is a valid reasoning behind the nature of humanityand not an excuse as you have put it. You desperately want to beat me in this topic, to prove to yourself that you are not selfish, yet why would you want to do this if not for selfish reasons? think about that
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I wouldn't say "desperately" :) I just think that you are trying to have the definition of selfishness work in two different ways.
Definition 1 (The one Mikhail was using): To unreasonably put yourself before others in such a way as to disadvantage them, for no great gain to yourself, eg, pushing in a line. You are both going to be served anyway, and assuming you are not in any particular hurry then this would be a selfish act by this definition.

Definition 2 (The one Draegath started out using): People are alive and are individuals, therefore every action they take necessarily supports the self in some way. By this definition human nature, even existence, IS selfishness.

What you are doing Draegath is using the 2nd definition to suggest that the 1st is human nature, as though they are the same thing. They are not. The one word is having two meanings in this conversation and sorry but you can't have it both ways. That would be a flawed argument.

40k needs monkeys that shoot crap at people

Originally posted by deathdealer@Feb 9 2005, 12:09
40k needs monkeys that shoot crap at people
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Sounds like most of the people on this forum... (myself included) :P

How bout an empire from a galaxy that were chasing the nids it would screw up there whole story of being the great devouer to the little kid who changes schools and attitudes kinda like that movie i cant remember i ll post it when i do but it suddenly yeh im the big kid now and then the army from the other galaxy comes and is like give me ure lunch money now or ill kick your bio-ass

I think bringing back the Squats under a new name would be excellent! :) However, they should stick to the characteristics of a dwarf: short, ruggedly tough, and great engineers.
The stat line I think should be used for the basic trooper goes something like this: WS4 BS3 S4 T5 I2 A1 LD9
I think they should be a race that has lived on worlds that have already been settled but, because there society is completely subterrainian, they have rarely been seen. The reasoning behind such toughness is the fact that they live around granite and steel during every part of their life.
This is just a thought. I know it could use some work. Maybe part of their main battle tactics involve tunnelling behind the enemy through use of melta like weapons and they could have the ability to deepstrike anytime they wanted; even basic troops. To balance this,since thier legs are so short, you could hinder thier movement or weaken their stat line. Just a thought.

I think robotnik that you put the case forward better than i ever could have although under defination 2 you could argue that most of the laws that exist are useless as some of them fly in the face of human instinct. Draegath by your argument since everything comes down to selfishness then if i am attracted to a women and then force myself on her (listening to my Selfish instinct to breed and pass on my genes) how can i be doing something wrong according to your theory i am only following what nature wants me to do.

I dont claim that selfishness is wrong - its certainly not wrong in a propegation sense - *forcing yourself* is only wrong because we deem it wrong in a cultural sense. I dont agree with *forcing yourself*, let me make that perfectly, utterly clear. However, from a survival of the species sense, the difference between *forcing yourself* and our ritualised mating game is cultural, and not at odds with our human nature to, as you put it, selfishly propogate our genes.
I think this topic has gone far enough off the track, so Im not going to reply in this thread if I am questioned on this statement above - you can feel free to PM me tho, and I will reply and discuss it further with you.

Originally posted by Draegath@Feb 11 2005, 06:51
I think this topic has gone far enough off the track, so Im not going to reply in this thread if I am questioned on this statement above - you can feel free to PM me tho, and I will reply and discuss it further with you.
325637

Good call dude. Consider me to be doing the same :)

The US is the space marines. Highly ellite, with supperior technology, and weapons than their enemies. Life , liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it, pretty much sums it up.

The US is the space marines. Highly ellite, .

get this comedian a drink... hilerious stuff mate... ah hahaha... :w00t:

wow, my gut hurts now... your hilerious... :yes:

oh man... ah... ah haha... good stuff there, you should do stand up.

The US is the space marines. Highly ellite, with supperior technology, and weapons than their enemies. Life , liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it, pretty much sums it up.

. . .

Wow.

I'm going to try to hold back saying anything mean.

Well not to argue against anything you just said, but I'm pretty sure space marines (the imperium in general) are FAR from "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness". It is more like a facist, imperialistic, futuristic war-machine. I doubt many of the citizens in the 40k universe have much in the way of rights.

Box: Slow down, read your posts before you hit submit please.

Cranius Maximus: S4? They are dwarves. S3, T4 (maybe, I mean, that is as tough as an Ork)

Hubcap: yea, probably wasn't the best analogy.

Reflex: In the basest sense, US troops are better trained, better equipped, and better conditioned to be soldiers than those of most other countries.

If it came down to it, I would trust a US Marine to save my life over any other country's special forces.


Bruiser: Also, US Marines are not warrior monks. Also, they do not have ANY autonomy from the US Congress. Oh yeah, I guess the existance of Congress would probably be a major difference as well.


Edit: Draegath? You are not receiving PMs, is there a reason?

Well having read the first and last page I see this has gone off track a bit. So I'll just throw in my idea of a nifty new race. I'd like to see a centaur-like race. I mean, right now pretty much everyone is a biped (tyranid are semi-bipedal at times but I digress). So I think it would be cool to have a race that ran at faster speeds than regular infantry (give them all fleet) or counted as cavalry models (I forget the rules...). I haven't thought this one out too much yet so most of this is off the top of my head. I do however remember seeing concept art back before the Tau were released when they were thinking of a new auxilary. I would gladly play an army made up of such creatures. (vehicles might be a little iffy though.... hmmmm)

Reflex: In the basest sense, US troops are better trained, better equipped, and better conditioned to be soldiers than those of most other countries.

If it came down to it, I would trust a US Marine to save my life over any other country's special forces.




if it came down to it i would trust only the SAS to save my life over any other country.

if it came down to it i would trust only the SAS to save my life over any other country.
If it comes down to it I'm trusting myself. I don't particularily feel like cowering behind a soldier if there is ever open warfare on the streets here. (doubt it but you never know).

if it came down to it i would trust only the SAS to save my life over any other country.

British or Australian...I'd take either, both good.
I know guys from both, they are hard MF's. :ninja:

Morkai: That works if you are trained to effectively fire a gun.


I am not trained to do so, and would thus expect the money I pay in taxes to go towards my protection.


SAS are great as well. At this point I would say that the US, British, and Aussie special forces are pretty equal, due to that whole 'civilization' thing. That and the fact that (most of the time) they are funded enough to do their jobs correctly.

Edit: oh yeah, the topic. I don't think Centaur would be good, because as you said, vehicles would be odd.

Overall, I would say that a new race at this point wouldn't be a good idea, because there is no empty 'niche' left for an army to fill.

Psykers - Eldar (hopefully with the new codex, this will become apparent)or Chaos
Shooting - Tau or Imperial Guard or Chaos
Close Combat - Tyranids or Dark Eldar or Chaos
Fun to play - Orks or Harlequins or Chaos
Being bad mofos who will not die - Necrons or Space Marines or Chaos
Narrative armies - Witch / Daemon Hunters (maybe Chaos too?)

I mean really, what else could an army specialize in?

Sorry this thread has gone on far too long and become far too polticial, if you had a valid contribution or idea nobody's going to kill you for making a new thread on the subject.