i heard that in the new eldar codex that shuriken weapons will aout wound on a roll of 6 to hit
OR
no armour save on a 6 to wound

anyone heard anythign?!?!?!?!...

~joe

that romours has been flying around for atleast one year.

We can't comfirm if its true or not.
Though 20 Guardians with Rending Shurikens could be quite overkill...
It can be quite balanced as if there are survivors, the survivors will assault the Guardians, though as said, 20 guardians with rending can easly kill 7-8 Space Marines on the first volley. ;)

Though that isn't always a certian thing.

/Cheers

I could maybe see it on the shuriken cannons.... but as said erlier it is in my opinion way to good for just basic catapults....everyone would get guardian armies or hmmmm, this would be better give the rending to dire avengers only.... I could see them being able to find a weak spot in the armour better!!!! :blink:

I think that the Rending rule for Shurikens could be an upgrade of some sort, with only a few Guardians in the squad gifted with "Razor Sharp" shurikens. :)

It seems a bit overpwoering to me... maybe as an upgrade it would be good, but with every guardian having it?? thats way to strong!

Originally posted by Sammy the Squid@Dec 9 2004, 10:06
It seems a bit overpwoering to me... maybe as an upgrade it would be good, but with every guardian having it?? thats way to strong!
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The very reliable rumor mill on DakkaDakka is pretty confident that Shuriken Cannons will get rending, Shuriken Catapults will not.

Oh good! That seems a lot more fair :)

Originally posted by Sammy the Squid@Dec 12 2004, 18:52
Oh good! That seems a lot more fair :)
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It would also mean that as defensive weapons in the new vehicle rules (I assume anyway, I don't live in a country where I can buy the 40K rulebook) that Eldar vehicles will be able to be very, very shooty for not a lot of points.

I think shuriken catapults need something, but it should be something small. If a squad of 20 guardians shot with rending shuriken catapults, odds are that 6.666 would roll 6s, even more if they're guided. That's a bit too good, IMHO.

Rending on Dire Avengers might be acceptable.

The famed "shuriken death" 12" shoot-up isn't all it's cracked up to be right now. Sure, with Orks and Kroot you can wipe out entire squads a go, but against the majority of the gaming world who are SMs with power armour, my guardians (15 men strong) only kill about two models if i'm lucky before getting charged and decimated. I think that slightly upgraded shurikens are in order! you say that rending for normal troops is overpowering... i I'm not saying let's make everything rending, just that necrons can take it, being the most advanced race in the game, and eldar as next advanced could use this technology too...

My Black Guardians usually do plenty of damage, usually decimating a whole squad in the shooting phase... normal guardians arent quite as good, but theyd still do a bit of damage...

JOHIRA, what country doesnt sell the 40k rulebook? can you still get it through mail order?

i think that if they were just Dire Avengers and cannons would be good, but i think that if they gave it to all the shuriken weapons that we would be giving the space marines a taste of their own medicine... hee hee hee 8)

It would make Dire Avengers more special and stronger, thats for sure... Itd make them more than just advanced guardians... Theyd actually be worth having in your armies! I play Ulthwe, and Dire Avengers are practically useless due to Black Guardians...

Originally posted by Sammy the Squid@Dec 13 2004, 20:52
JOHIRA, what country doesnt sell the 40k rulebook? can you still get it through mail order?
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40K stuff isn't availible in Japan. I could get it by mail-order, and I'm planning to do so, but I'm in a funny space right now that if I mail-ordered it now it wouldn't get here until I've left for winter holidays, so I won't be able to pick one up until the new year. Not too long to wait.

Ah cool! I went to Japan once, but I thought they did sell GW stuff there... ah well... at least you can mail order them i guess...

Originally posted by Sammy the Squid@Dec 15 2004, 17:57
Ah cool! I went to Japan once, but I thought they did sell GW stuff there... ah well... at least you can mail order them i guess...
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There's Games Workshop here, just no 40K. I heard rumors that there's some 40K being tentatively introduced in Akihabara, but for pretty much the rest of the country all you can get are Warhammer Fantasy and Lord of the Rings.

Besides, I'm not exactly at the point I could read the rulebook in Japanese.

No prob, in a few weeks I'll have one, and maybe a little Forgeworld goodness too!

I play against Eldar on a regular basis i don't think shurikan catapults need to be upgraded at the moment at least for guardians, however i reckon dire avengers should get 18" range catapults.

i honestly agree that catapults should just be range "18." i have used them with this range before and they work really well, but they still are not cheesy, or "beerd" as they say in the UK.

Upgrading them till range 18'' or range 24 and S3 like my De have. I prefer those range 24'' then those S4 range 12'' dont you?

18" sounds great. Then you might have a chance to shoot nids.

Id rather have S4 over S3 whatever the range (except for my swooping hawks). Id even be happy to keep the 12" range if they were given the rending ability, but Id make do with 18" range without the rending

I think thats whats keeping me from fully starting an Eldar army is the low range... i mean come on... with a pack of beasts ready to assault you... you won't have enuf time to shoot them down... i think an 18" range is in order for the catapult.... don't really need the rending, with enuf shots in one squad, an armor save or two is sure to fail... cheerz... :D

well... all they miss out on in range terms are the extra ability to have a single shot at 24", which they trade for the ability to shoot 2 shots and still assault. Eldar armies are rarely outranged, because of their access to a large number of moderate range high strength weaponry like starcannon, bright lance, reaper launcher, shuriken cannon etc etc. All of the eldar units are designed to do one thing particularily well (with the exception of dire avengers, who I think are against the fluff of the eldar war machine but Im not advocating that they get erased from the list) and you should expect the range of the Shuriken Catapults to reflect specilization.

Originally posted by Draegath@Jan 7 2005, 14:19
well... all they miss out on in range terms are the extra ability to have a single shot at 24", which they trade for the ability to shoot 2 shots and still assault. Eldar armies are rarely outranged, because of their access to a large number of moderate range high strength weaponry like starcannon, bright lance, reaper launcher, shuriken cannon etc etc. All of the eldar units are designed to do one thing particularily well (with the exception of dire avengers, who I think are against the fluff of the eldar war machine but Im not advocating that they get erased from the list) and you should expect the range of the Shuriken Catapults to reflect specilization.
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Indeed, it does, but specialization in what? If guardians were frothing-at-the-mouth close combat monsters, an assault weapon would be a suitable specialization. However, the ability to fire and then assault isn't much good if the unit's hapless in close combat. It seems like the _LAST_ thing a guardian defender squad would want to do, particularly if they're toting a gun platform. It's the same sort of complaint lodged against the warp spider exarch - he can be equipped with all kinds of abilities that nobody wants to use. A specialized attribute that doesn't fit the unit's role just ends up being a liability.

it wont be useful against SM, but against IG, who also tote rapid fire weapons but who only have an I of 3, it can be a very useful tactic. Its also useful for bulking out a combat that your specialised troops have gotten into. the guardians make the difference a lot more than ya think

I would like to see something done with Dire Avengers as mentioned earlier either with rending or what not. Currently nobody takes them and with good reason. The catapult should be short range since its shooting little discs, I like them as is but they need specialized weapons in the squad like dark eldar have.

It just bothers me that such an ancient race with such advanced technology has a basic troop using guns that have a 12" range. Although the assualt 2 is nice, but how often di they get to actually use it before being assaulted?

I think that guardians will get to use their shuriken cats more now that the new edition has mod'd rapid fire rules

Personally i think a strength 4 assault 2 basic gun is pretty advanced. The same strength as bolters or shootas but they dont require 7 foot super strength beings to be able to use them. They dont have primitive loading systems so can charge whilst shooting.

I think shuricats are perfect just the way they are, maybe you guys who complain should try new ways to use them? I agree that they are not very good vs. Marines, but as every other unit in the Eldar army, Guardians are specialists. So use them against what they are made to be used against! (Horde armies)

Tip: Put a Farseer with guide and fortune with them, along with a concealing warlock and you will have a very powerful squad.

I think that either they increece the range to 18 and make guardaind 9 points and ideravengers 13

or they make them rending but only for dieravengers

or that as well

the cannons should be heavy 4 and/or rending


also i feel that dieravengers should get a type od true grit where they get pistol and ccw attacks with there catapolts (and give them ccw's) and posibly make them 13 points then they would be better and more different than just better guardains that can't have heavy weapons

I dunno if its gonna be increased range I don't think you can keep them at assault 2...because then you make the basic guardian very good IMO, especially with the above tactic of putting a farseer with fortune and guide and a warlock with conceal...reroll 5+I hmmm. I think you would see alot of guardians if that were the case. IMO guarians are still good as they are now but the changed rapid fire rules kinda jip the shurikan catapult.

I think that the shrukien catapults are alittl, dumb. They should be at least AP 4 and at 18" range.

Yesterday I played against eldar and there normal guns are perfectly fine in my opinion. There farseer is cheapo with there squad... 5+ saves my butt.

I think theyre fine too. they have other weapons for long range work