My local game workshop store just told me that the squats would be re-released in the next couple of years!!

Possibly. Would be nice to have a new race out there.

They might relase new races but i'm afraid that the squats are long dead (yeah lets bring back dwarves in space that'll work) Games Workshop have continually said that they ain't coming back and the Nids ate thier home world. The most likely new race would be the Demirug as they have relased models for them in Battlefleet Gothic.

Originally posted by Mikhail The Heretic@Jan 5 2005, 08:21
They might relase new races but i'm afraid that the squats are long dead (yeah lets bring back dwarves in space that'll work) Games Workshop have continually said that they ain't coming back and the Nids ate thier home world. The most likely new race would be the Demirug as they have relased models for them in Battlefleet Gothic.
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Who are Demirug? Has anyone some picture of them?

no pics yet they will most likly be a "similer" species to the squats but with a little more thought into the style of the army. dwarfs on moter cycles? sick and wrong! (for 40k at least)

Squats? hmmm...
::searching imperial database for reference :: ***error*** ::all data wiped from memory:: ***Arbitrators notified, prepare for purging*** have a nice day.
Crud.


GW has put up with allot to kill squats. If anything they may come back as a single squad that the Guard, Daemon/witch hunters, and maybe even tau can use. I can’t see them releasing a new codex for them.
-GM

The Demiurg are a race which harvests space debris and solar particles, which can be used to power their technology. I dunno, but what works fine in Battlefleet Gothic, somehow doesnt work in 40K for my mind

"Excuse me for a moment while I harness this suns rays so I can shoot you!"
"My sun screen is SPF 600+"
"All your shrapnels are belong to us"

they probably meant demirurg.Hope they do demirurg but it doesnt look to much like dwarves. Demirurg and Hrud always reminded me of skaven though... :blink:

Why that's absurd! Squats comming back..hehe..where ever would you *suddenly clubs Gez in the head and his Inquisitorial henchmen drag him off* None of you saw that..

Anyways the Squats are not comming back,at least not to where they have thier own army.Look at the BFG section on Forge World's site to get a peak at some Demiurg ships.That's what's left of the Squats I beleive, or at least what's left of the concept behind the Squat's creation.I'm not sure how closely the Squats and Demiurg are related fluff wise,but the Squat Empire is going to stay dead and the Demiurg will never be anything more then a nice little extra.You're not going to see any Demiurg amry lists or anything.

Squats eh?
*sighs*
Maybe this could shut everbody up...
Taken from this site, scroll down a little (http://forums.specialist-games.com/epic/forum_b/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2532&whichpage=3)

Posted - 07/28/2004 : 10:41:29 Show Profile
I know I shouldn't get drawn on this... but... can't... resist

Seriously, a couple of points just so you can have an informed debate based on the real reasons that Squats are no longer available. Be warned, it is going to be hard reading for people that like the Squat background.

First of all, Squats were *not* dropped because they were not selling well. There were then, and are now, plenty of other figure ranges that sell in the sort of % quantaties that the Squats pulled down, especially when you look across all of the ranges produced by GW rather than just those for 40K.

No, the reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc) felt that we had failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation. From the name of the race (Squats - what *were* we thinking?!?!) through to the short bikers motif, we had managed to turn what was a proud and noble race in Warhammer and the other literary forms where the archetype exists, into a joke race in 40K. We only fully realised what we had done when we were working on the 2nd edition of 40K. Try as we might, we just couldn't work up much enthusiasm for the Squats. The mistake we made then (deeply regreted since) was to leave them in the background and the 'get you by' army list book that appeared. With hindsight, we should have dropped the Squats back then, and saved ourselves a lot of grief later on.

Anyway, the Squats made it into 2nd edition, and since we were doing army books for each of the races, we started to try and figure out what to do with them. Unfortunately we just couldn't figure out a way to update them and get them to work that we felt was good enough. The 'art' of working on an army as a designer is to find the thing that you think is cool and exciting about an army, and work it up into a strong theme. This 'muse' didn't strike any of us, and so, rather than bring out a second-rate product simply re-hashing the old background, we kept doing other army books instead, with stuff we did feel inspired by.

Now, while this was all going on for 40K, we were actually doing some rather good stuff for the Squats in Epic. On this scale there was a natural tendancy to focus on the big 'hand-made' war machines the Squat artisans produced, and this created an army with a feel that was very different to the biker hordes in 40K. However, this tended to reinforce the problems we saw in the Squat background rather than alleviate them, underlining what we *should* have done with the Squats in 40K.

In the end (and it took years to really get to the roots of the problem) this led to a realisation that we were going to have to drop the Squats in their 'Squat' form from the 40K background. There was little point having a major race that we weren't willing to make an army book for, and their inclusion in the background meant that people kept asking us when we'd do a Squat Codex. Instead we decided that we'd write the Squats out of the background by saying that their Homworlds had been devoured by a Tyranid Hivefleet. This would give us the option in the future to return to making a race based ont he Squat archetype for 40K. This race was given the name of Demiurg, and a certain amount of preliminary work was done to get a 'feel' for what the race would be like. At present the only hint of the Demiurg in 40K is the Demiurg spaceship for BFG. However, we do have this race 'in our back pocket' as a possible new race for 40K, or an interesting character model in Inquisitor, or whatever. So far the Demiurg have lost out to other projects, and it may be that their time never actually comes, as they will have to win through on their merits, not simply because we once made some Squat models in the past. At present, I have to say that it is more lilely that they *don't* make the cut than do, as there is a certain predudice these days to simply taking races from Warhammer and cross them over to 40K like we did in the early days, so it may be that the Squats/Demiurg end up remaining a footnote in the history of the 40K galaxy. Only time will tell...

The second point I'd like to make is about 'old moulds'. In the past, Mail Order in the UK and US used to be the place that we kept all of the retired moulds for Citadel Miniatures, and we used to offer a service where you could order any Citadel Mniature ever made from MO. However, there are now so many of these 'back catalogue' miniatures that it is simply impossible to keep all of the old moulds in Mail Order and offer this service. Instead, we pick and choose which back catalogue miniatures are kept available. At present we're still struggling to produce special catalogues for these ranges (in the US there is the 'Phone Book' catalogue with everything in it, while the UK has special 'collectors guides' that are themed round a race). Once we've ironed out the kinks in the way we deal with the range of collectors models we want to keep permenantly available, the plan is to offer up other parts of the back catalogue for limited periods of time. In effect this will divide the back catalogue into three parts: a range of classic models that are permenantly available, a range of classic models we dip into and bring out for a limited release, and a range of retired models that will no longer be sold either because we've decided that they are embarrassingly bad, or because we are no longer allowed to sell them due to licencing agreement changes. So far we're still slowly working on deciding which classic models we want to keep permenantly available, and its going to take several years to work through just those. The old Squat range is most likely to end up as retired models, I have to say, though there is a good chance that the Squat war engines they could simply into the limited release classic range. Once again, only time will tell...

I'll finish off by saying that whatever we decide to do 'officially', there is nothing stopping players with Squat armies from using them, either in Epic or 40k for that matter. There is no GW 'rule' against using old Citadel Miniatures, as long as you use them with exisiting army lists and in a way that won't cause confusion for other players. I recommend taking a positive stand by saying "Have you seen these cool old models? They're called the Squats and GW used to make them back in the late eighties/early nineties. I love 'em, so I count them as Imperial Guard and use them with the current rules..." Put like this I can't imagine that anyone would stop you from using your army.

Best regards,

Jervis Johnson
Head Fanatic
Happy Now.
Good. Glad its cleared things up.

hehehe
Nids: 1
Space Dwarves on bikes: 0

honestly, squats were before i even started 40k but i just don't know what GW were thinking.
i've seen pictures of the squats and i have no idea who thinks tiny hells angels are cool.
some of you might but if all of the people new to 40k think like me, the squats as we know them aren't coming back.

The funniest things I saw were the Exo-Armored Squats, the Dwarf version of terminator armor. They were as wide as they were tall, and made me think of cow-tipping for some reason...

Anyway, I'm glad to hear it from Jervis' mouth. I didn't know that the Tyranids ate the Squat Leagues. Cool. Now they need to eat Ratlings and Ogryns as well.

Did you know that the IG used to induct BEASTMEN in bygone editions of 40K? Now you can only find them, appropriately, in LATD armies.

GW went sort of wierd for awhile, like everything had to be kind of commical. Ork Mad Boyz, Squat harley bikers, Mutant IG, and all that stuff is gone, and GW is now moving in the opposite direction. Personally I think they're taking the Gothic theme too far--now everything just seems corrupt and evil (except the Tau). The art is all gory (I wouldn't show it to my kids, for sure) and too be honest I'd rather play with some silly Ork madboyz then a bunch of half naked women with their eyes put out swinging large chainsaws. Or roting corpse-robots as servants. I just don't see the appeal.

I want my marines clean-cut, without a skull on every peice of their armor. I mean, they're not Chaos marines, right?

Why NOT just let elves be elves and dwarves be dwarves in a Sci-Fi environment? That's what started 40K anyway. People can relate to that. Besides, what was the point of the Dark Eldar? If Jervis used the same rationale, the DE should never have been given their own codex either.

Tau relate to Animae. Necrons are metal Undead (and look like the Terminator). Tyranids relate to the Alien movies and Starship Troopers. Eldar, Squats, Orks, and Chaos all relate back to archetypes developed by JRR Tolkein. So what is he REALLY saying?

The GW 40K designers are just predjudiced against Dwarves, that's all! :P

I think the reson for squats and I could be wrong is that most fb armies match the 40k armies

look

40k / fb
chaos/chaos
space marines/bretoiens(how do you spell that)
IG/empire (sm and Ig could swap places they're 'bout the same)(WH DH could be included)
eldar/high elves
dark eldar/dark elves
orks/orcs
tau/lizard men(different but the same)
necrons/undead or TK
and of course squats and dwarfs

ahh ^_^ I've saving that therory for a while

Originally posted by 40Kgreybeard+Jan 6 2005, 19:00--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(40Kgreybeard @ Jan 6 2005, 19:00)</div><div class='quotemain'>The funniest things I saw were the Exo-Armored Squats, the Dwarf version of terminator armor. They were as wide as they were tall, and made me think of cow-tipping for some reason...
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[/b]
Ahh, the Hearth Guard...I'm one of those crazy guys that miss the weird squats...In Epic that is. I mean the land train was freaking awesome. And the Goliath Mega Cannon? ...mmm...

Originally posted by 40Kgreybeard@Jan 6 2005, 19:00
GW went sort of wierd for awhile, like everything had to be kind of commical. Ork Mad Boyz, Squat harley bikers, Mutant IG, and all that stuff is gone, and GW is now moving in the opposite direction. Personally I think they're taking the Gothic theme too far--now everything just seems corrupt and evil (except the Tau). The art is all gory (I wouldn't show it to my kids, for sure) and too be honest I'd rather play with some silly Ork madboyz then a bunch of half naked women with their eyes put out swinging large chainsaws. Or roting corpse-robots as servants. I just don't see the appeal.
I want my marines clean-cut, without a skull on every peice of their armor. I mean, they're not Chaos marines, right?
295201

I like the development of the Gothic theme, gives it more character than all the weird stuff it used to include, like silly named heroes...

<!--QuoteBegin-40Kgreybeard@Jan 6 2005, 19:00
Did you know that the IG used to induct BEASTMEN in bygone editions of 40K? Now you can only find them, appropriately, in LATD armies.
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[/quote]
Yes, with hindsight it seems weird, but I used to include beastmen in my IG/Titan Legions division in my Epic Ultramarines army...seemed so natural back then...hm

Dwarves on bikes? That is so heavy metal.

And naw, I don't think they will ever come back.

Originally posted by chaos lord92@Jan 7 2005, 09:34
I think the reson for squats and I could be wrong is that most fb armies match the 40k armies

look

40k / fb
chaos/chaos
space marines/bretoiens(how do you spell that)
IG/empire (sm and Ig could swap places they're 'bout the same)(WH DH could be included)
eldar/high elves
dark eldar/dark elves
orks/orcs
tau/lizard men(different but the same)
necrons/undead or TK
and of course squats and dwarfs

ahh ^_^ I've saving that therory for a while
295566


Thats some pretty tenuous links there - Im not sure how you figure that Brets and SM are the same - they dont look the same or operate the same. the eldar are more like dark elves when it comes to specialised units and I have no idea where you get the idea that tau and lizardmen are the same. thats just bizarre.

40K and fantasy havent been simple mirrors of each other for years so stop with the dead horse flogging

I'm not saying they're exactly the same sm and brets cause they're human eldar & dark eldar are the same as high elves and dark elves cause there's an evil version of the same race tau and lizards cause they both seem to be the "good" race

Im not sure how you figure that Brets and SM are the same - they dont look the same in 40 000 year they would have changed don't you think :P

how about lizardmen and tyranids, both are scaly and ugly looking (not trying to insult ppl who play these armies)

I hate to sound stupid here, but what exactly are squats? are they like dwarfs? :blush:

Yup, Squats = Space Dwarves.


On the note of comparing Tyranids with Lizardmen... They might both be scaly with sharp teeth, but they fill entirely different fluff niches: The Tyranid is a massive and cunning predatory organism, considered "evil" by most who insist on labelng races with Human moral values, whereas the Lizardmen have a clear civilization very much similar to that of other races, and generally considered a "good" race.

The odd part is, I play Tyranids... But if I'd ever start a WHFB army, it'd be the Lizardmen. =)

Ive heard of squats before but never even knew what they were!!! Are they like the same as fantasy dwarfs? beards and all? Or are they just like Ratlings?

Here's (http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/) a page linking to an old Citadel miniatures catalogue... Scroll down a bit, there should be a Squat listing in the left column.

Note that You can click on the pictures multiple times to get a larger version of the picture, from small -> medium -> large, where large is the complete page in pretty much the original size.

Should give a fairly good idea what Squats looked like. =)

Wierd but I doubt GW will really bring them back it sounds so stupid having Dwarves in Space :realmad: :ph34r:

Oh, like Orcs and Elves in space is that much better? ;)

They should bring them back, but I would include them as an option for Tau. I keep reading how the Tau are an alliance of made up of other races such as Kroot and a few non-imperium humans. Squats would be a great addition to add through an issue of white dwarf. This would help make up for the weaknesses that plague the Tau.

Does anyone else find it strange that ifyou post anything that is related to squats on the GW forum they immediately lock the thread?

its because they believe that the people that want Squats to come back are a small but vocal minority and like all totalitarian systems (capitalism and the managed company) a minority can be ignored

Originally posted by Draegath@Jan 15 2005, 06:54
its because they believe that the people that want Squats to come back are a small but vocal minority and like all totalitarian systems (capitalism and the managed company) a minority can be ignored
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Surely they are just voracious capitalists? But seriously - if they do market surveys (like most big companies) wouldn't you expect them to have an idea of how many units they might sell, therefore how much profit they can expect? If it's not profitable I can't blame them for not doing it but has anyone done such a survey to confirm GW's opinion?

BTW I think Squats/Demiurgs could be quite good - slow but tough and with really powerful war engines. They'd be a small army but able to take the hits and keep on fighting - maybe they'd be too threatening to all the SM players out there..... :shifty: A race of inter-stellar miners that run into other races and have to defend their plunder now and again could be good - like Red Dwarf but on a bigger scale! Squats with bazookoids.... :D

P.S. I hope they NEVER EVER bring back Chaos Squats....

in the interview with one of the GW big fellahs (I cant remember which one), it was said that squats were scrapped not simply because of their popularilty (or lack thereof), but alos cos of the name and the fact that GW couldnt figure out a way of making them different enough to warrent a new army list. I think the problem with making them slow but tough is that doesnt really fit in with the rest of the races and if you had a slow but tough army that couldnt be killed off easily but did massive amounts of damage then most armies would struggle against them. I think a way of having the squats return would be to have an otherwise diminutive race interred inside massive warmachines (ogre kingdoms meets 40K?) but that would open up a can of licensing worms as many other companies have very similar races (not to mention well known giant robot companies). This is really the only unexplored area of the 40K system, that of an all dreadnought/small titan army, IMO.
I would like to see the demiurg appear as a full 40K race, but I dont want them to look like space dwarfs, as that would be boring and obvious - Id like to see a new looking race, like the tau or kroot or whichever race you want to look at. something new is always good

Squats are coming back!


aww hell no...


lmao.



people shouldn't really be talking about...

adeptus mech army coming out..
kroot merc codex...
squats coming back...



as you ahve to notice... the larger priorities.. yes you can dream.. but..

SM isn't done yet..
nids
eldar
orks
Xeno hunters have yet to come out..


times most of these selections by three months, will equal more than a year..

not to add in the delay of producing these units.. and such..

I'd heard that the GW staff member who originally created the Squats kept the rights to them. Thus, when he left the company, GW refused to pay for the right to keep using them, so they had them killed off. Same thing happened to those two "missing" Space Marine chapters, the Rainbow Warriors and that other one. Since then GW has made sure all rights remain with the company.

Anyhoo, I've read this in a couple other places, but I can't remember where, so I can't back it up. :mellow:

rainbow warriors are NOT(!!) one of the missing SM legions... although they have been in the shadows recently...

also; GW will never bring back the Squats, period. the deimurg are not going to come out (if ever) for more than 5-10 years.

GW are now actually afraid of squats... they are so afraid that they stop all talking of sqauts everywhere they can... i am surprised that Blackhat hasnt been e-mailed asking him to delete this topic.

their excuse on their own forums is that 'squats always turn topics into flame threads'

now that is complete and utter...**bolter shot heard**

they reckon the vocal squat supporters are a minority. I think they should bring out a space dwarfesque army, but I think the squats had a stupid name and didnt really stand out enough.

I think they should have ther squats as an ogre kingdom in space type army - demiurg in retrofitted mining suits with good armour and heavy weapons, supported by mole mortars, thudd guns and mega cannon, but make the unsuited demiurg even more diminutive that the tau

People have been known to have been banned from GW stores for trying to use squats. If they ever attempted to reintroduce them, they would be another one of those crappy experimental lists hidden somewhere on the GW official site. Which I am very vocal about and strongly opposed to. I've bitched at about three people in the last few weeks about this nonsense. :angry:
As for demiurg... they aren't really much different to the Tau, other than they rely on machinery and technology to run pretty much everything. The crew for a demiurg battleship is roughly the same size as that of a cobra class destroyer, which is about 10x smaller. They would be quite weedy but technologically advanced.... so, the Tau, then, just with a different name.

oh sweet Lion El Jonson, not chaos squats, anything but ::bolter fire and indisting thud noise::