In the Black Library i found this...

Blood Angels : Deus Sanguinius

In the second book in the series, James Swallow uncovers the hidden secrets of the Blood Angels when it appears that their Primarch has been reborn!

Can anyone explain me this or this is true????

key word "appears" It dosnt meen it actually happens. Perhaps some nifty plot twist ect. I dont think any of the Primarchs will return.
-GM

i personally think they will have a "gentic reincarnation" not the Primarch themselves but a hero who looks just like them

Leman Russ and Ragnar Blackmane for example

except for angron of course, anyone remember how many years he got left till he's back on the town? i think his timeout is allmost up.

i mean loyalist Primarches afterall 75% of the Chaos Primarches are alive and kicking (well it depends upon how you define daemonhood)

well no matter how you define daemonhood the chaos primarchs are still kicking. I think there may well be a time when we see the primarchs again, sometime around when Abbadon gets his wings ie daemonhood. So in the grim darkness of the far future people will be able to play with the primarchs in between their galaxy spanning battles.

abbadon wont become a demon until he destroys the false emperor but because he chose to do it

Argon is back after 100 years and a day right?
suppose it is coming up

You should read the book, it's about a BA marine who seems to possess powers akin to the primarch. He even manages to wield a weapon made for Sanguinius that no other has been able too, this all happened on a planet where they were fighting Word Bearers.

But now word has reached Dante about it, he's none too happy ;)

I'm waiting for the next part, the Inquisitor has something to do with this. I think he's manliipulating the marine, we shall see.

KU

i think it would make perfect sense for GW to bring back the primarchs. they're just biding they're time... they've already got gods running around- ie c'tan, avatars, abaddon- just about. in fact if the rumours on abaddon are true he just about is a primarch.
anyway, about GW:
-GW release primarchs. Kids see how cool primarchs are. kids buy more marines. GW designers happy because everyone has at least one marine army. GW bosses happy because they rake in loads of money. yeah i can see them coming back. not from any useful fluffy standpoint though.
herohammer here we come...

if the primarchs ever get released it would be a shame. theyre part of the myth building surrounding 40K, part of what keeps peoples imaginations fired up. I doubt anyone would be happy with any primarch returning (because theyd of course be too hard, too soft, not cool enough, too expensive etc etc). notice that not one of the chaos primarchs have been seen since the says of Space Marine/Adeptus Titanicus?

Originally posted by Rengaw+Jan 18 2005, 16:13--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rengaw @ Jan 18 2005, 16:13)</div><div class='quotemain'>except for angron of course, anyone remember how many years he got left till he's back on the town? i think his timeout is allmost up.
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<!--QuoteBegin-Dru@Jan 19 2005, 06:55
Argon is back after 100 years and a day right?
suppose it is coming up
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no, no, no Angron is 10000 years and a day. and he was banished 500 years ago, when logan grimnar was new to the wolf throne.

Don't you think it's a bit sad to go around looking for Warhammmer forums to post a little bit of sarcasm on, just to heighten your wallowing self esteem slightly? Why not just let people have their own interests, and we'll let you enjoy your hobbies, most likely beating up "geeks" or people of a different race or faith? And as for your little anecdote at the end about "only time will tell"-you should add a bit to that-it's also too late to change when you're going to night school at the age of 45 cause you were one of the cool guys at school who didn't do any work. Like yourself, and other people who have trouble spelling complex words like "something" and getting stuck on the use of question marks. As for pathetic low-life individuals, I'm sure most of the people on this site have more to their name than you ever will, "homie".
God I hate *****ers like that.
*EDIT*The guys post has been deleted, but i'll leave it here to see just in case he comes back... :shifty:

Anyway. I'm sure half the point of them not releasing the primarchs is just the fact that they don't really know how to explain them coming back. How does a vortex grenade work? We don't know how to explain it, so it was "lost in the dark age of technology"! Is the Father of Scorpions the same as the founder of the Incubi? We don't know if it will clash with the existing fluff, so we won't tell you! Ever! Besides, it keeps people's imaginations working, and i suppose you can base campaigns and things around all of the background material there is available.
Also, I suppose that they'd be far too strong to use in game terms. Most Black Legion marines would crap themselves if they saw Roboute Guilliman striding toward them, remembering him from ten thousand years before! And they'd have to be immensely powerful-Easily stronger than several Grand masters, and blessed with the absolute faith in them from their chapter.
But that book does sound cool. I'll have to read it. And im sure Dante's pissed off about it-he probably thought it would be him to get Sanguinius powers, the jealous git...

Primarchs in battle?! NO!!! It'll ruin the game, these are all super human and more than capable of slaying the toughest of creatures with ease (read: Sanguinius vs the Bloothirster = BT and broken back).

Also a good many are dead or "lost", the rest have turned against the Emperor. So only a few be viable and they'd need stats that put almost everything in the game to shame.

Leave them where they belong. In fluff.


KU

are you sure it's ten thousand? i thought it was only 1000. but i've been wrong before. the first war for armageddon was only 500 years ago? god how time flies.

but yes, ulrik's got it. the primarches arn't made for tabletop gameplay. mebbe 40k epic or something a little more uhhh well, epic.

some stores in the US made some Primarch rules for a Horus Heresy campaign (they stated repeatedly that it wasn't official)

stats were not that bad- S and T of 6, high WS special abilities that benifited troops around them, for example being within 12" of Peterubo gave an additional +1 to penetrate armour

Originally posted by King Ulrik Flamebeard@Jan 19 2005, 20:06
Primarchs in battle?! NO!!! It'll ruin the game, these are all super human and more than capable of slaying the toughest of creatures with ease (read: Sanguinius vs the Bloothirster = BT and broken back).
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It's actually fun if you're playing right around the time of the heresy with classic Land Raiders and stuff.

trust a bunch of americans to abuse the gaming system by releasing the rules for primarchs, even if they werent official.

Originally posted by Draegath@Jan 20 2005, 15:22
trust a bunch of americans to abuse the gaming system by releasing the rules for primarchs, even if they werent official.
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wake up to your self. your being such a dick.

im not american and i still think you should shut the hell up.
you have no damn right to treat people like that.

on other matters;

the only faithul primarch coming back (in my mind) is leman russ.
he's somewhere in the warp right??

I think it would be ok but they would need rules that say they can only be used against chaos armies(because they hate them so much) and also if you use a primarch it can only be against an opposing player who can use his own primarch

his coment wasnt that bad,leman is int he warp,The lion is in statis/being looked after by the watchers until hes needed again,the codex boy is in statasis while his wounds regenarate.
I dont think many have offically been killed,but they have got into bad places....

Personally I think it would be bad if some of the primarchs came back, I mean what would happen to the Black Rage and Red Thirst for the Blood Angels if Sangy came back? They would suddenly become a lot less cool, and whats this book I am hearing of? A blood angel wielding Sangunius's weapons? It's not Blood quest is it?

Yes he's using Sanguinius' sword... and have wings... And he's blonde and has long hair like Sanguinius... :D

I think this makes things clear... :P I think he has same gene-curse (or whatever you call) with Sanguinius... But Blood Angels fights within... I wonder which side will win..?

I would think hes more likly a clone,they did it with horus

I don't think he's a clone... Cuz i'm sure that Dante'd know if he's a clone...
And the Blood Angels fights within becouse of him and Dante...

Originally posted by Edainstormbringer@Feb 23 2005, 08:46
Yes he's using Sanguinius' sword... and have wings... And he's blonde and has long hair like Sanguinius... :D

I think this makes things clear... :P I think he has same gene-curse (or whatever you call) with Sanguinius... But Blood Angels fights within... I wonder which side will win..?
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ah so close yet so far off from the truth. arkio is using the spear of telesto (striaght from the damn book :P ) his hair is not long, but mid level (which is long for a marine outside of the wolves)
he wears the golden armour, a bit of heresy if im correct. there is no way he can be a clone since he does have a brother, rafen, and both were not space marines their whole lives.

stele, the inquisitor, is obviously attempting to bend chaos for his own gains and like what happened to sarpedon of the soul drikers, arkio has recieved 'gifts'

the spear would work for any blood angel, since it is gene encoded and recognizes the blood of sanginius. much like the spear of russ and the soulspear of dorn.

dante himself is not going to confront arkio, but mephiston will (correct me if im wrong, deus encarmine is in my lap)

Hm... ok sorry... i didn't read the book... i saw the poster on black library and read the news about that book...

But i will read the book in first place :D Well, i have one more question...
What if this story has something with the Bloodquest?? I mean yes he's using a spear but (i didn't read the Bloodquest either) what happened to Blade Encarmine??

im not the worlds greatest ba fan so i dont know about bloodquest. if you could explain that a little more than please do.

all i can say is that stele is attempting to split the blood angels intoa civil war that will bring them down the road to chaos much like what happened to the soul drinkers. (its actually the exact same thing when you compare the two)

Originally posted by Rengaw@Jan 20 2005, 01:34
are you sure it's ten thousand? i thought it was only 1000. but i've been wrong before. the first war for armageddon was only 500 years ago? god how time flies.

but yes, ulrik's got it. the primarches arn't made for tabletop gameplay. mebbe 40k epic or something a little more uhhh well, epic.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it is actually 1000.

And considering that Warhammer is a game where you can play as a character from say 783 years in the past, and then play a new game with a character from the present day, it's a plausible idea that Angron could appear again in the 40k Universe.

Hopefully not as a playable character, but maybe as a display model.

On the subject of time, is the 40k timeline actually moving? eg: the campaign results are writing the history of the universe. It seems to me that all the campaigns are from famous battles in the past, as opposed to "a new tyranid threat" or whatever.
Then again, they'd never change it to "Warhammer 41k" because the 40th millenium was over.

I'd love it. Take them against dumb Necron player who bring C'Tans. Make them about as powerful and as expensive so you can laugh when Leman Russ or Sanguinus cuts the C'Tan in half.

the primarches arn't made for tabletop gameplay. mebbe 40k epic or something a little more uhhh well, epic.
Didn't they have a model for Mortarion, the death guard primarch for the really old epic? I have way too many old WDs lying around. Hell, it may have been when epic was called 'space marine'. He was all huge and grim-reaper looking.

I slightly agree with greymeister. The primarchs would be slightly amusing for a while, but their novelty would soon wear off as more and more people began to use them because they're too lazy to come up with a proper strategy and tactics. They'd just command the game and get boring after a while.
This doesn't mean you shouldn't model them; to sanguinius model based on the nightbringer c'tan from a few years ago was awesome.

Angrons time was 1000 yrs and a day.

If they do Bring A primarch back it will be like Valten, he came, he saw, he kicked some ass then dissapeared again, so it doesnt upset the balence of the game.......

like the World wide campaigns, they always end in a draw, 3 WWCs and 3 Draws seems a little strange, so if a primarch comes back he will be like valten, around long enugh to save the world.

dont mean i wouldent buy the damn thing though.

the old epic models had fulgrim, Angron, Mortarion and magnus the red


Still i don't want to see the primarchs return it would be just stupid and people would just exploit it.

i agree with the epic side of things as they did in the past, but for 40k you'd need one big battle to even consided the need for a primarch.

BTW the book sounds interesting and may have to aquire it at some point.

Also with the comment about an american store making some un-official rules for primarch they arent the first as the ideas been done plently of times.
They were just the only ones silly enought to think the idea sounded good, probably only to entertain some 9 year olds that think that it was an actual historical batter and was all real.

Some people just take things too seriously

Its a HOBBY

The available loyal Primarchs whom could return:

Leman Russ, simply disappeared. Quoted saying "He would return for the Wolftime"
Robute Gulliman, in stasis with a wound to the neck but is apparently healing even though it's thought not to be possible.
Jagahti Khan, disappeared chasing a large amount of Dark Eldar.
Corax, left to the Eye of Terror attempting to seek retribution for the horrors he created at Ravenspire.
Ferrus Manus, simply disappeared. Not quite sure, perhaps IH players could help me out there.
Lion El'Johnson, apparently mortally wounded but again being held in stasis.

Loyal Primarchs not available:

Saguinius, died at the hands of Horus... as we know.
Rogal Dorn, died assaulting a Chaos Warship near the Eye of Terror, only his Iron Glove remained.

This is pretty much who would and wouldn't be available. Would be cool but I'd hate to see it in a 500 pt battle. Ork deploys 40+ models, I deploy one.

Ork Player: "OMG you only have one model?"
SM Player: "Yeah but that's Robute Gulliman"
Ork Player: "Fcuk you"

-Invic

i wasn't too happy about the newer codicies killing off Rogal Dawn. In the old old books can't remember which one, (maybe the old 2nr ed space marin codex) he was the only primarch rumored to be still active and alive and rumored to be the leader of the Custodian Guard?
To me that sounds better than 'they found his Iron Glove'

and as far as i know Ferrus Manus is rumered to be on Mars or something like that

Invictis your wrong on one point.

How can Sanguinus not be possible if here we have a book With the High possibility its true, we cant disscount him untill the 2nd book is out and has been read!!!!

arkio cant be the primarch reincarnate though, after all what has caused his ascension in the first place. the spear of telesto has given him powers and abilities since the moment he touched it. remember sarpedon also wields the soulspear but he doesnt start turning into te spitting image of dorn.

in book 2 i bet it will be confirmed that the spear has mutated arkio.

Or there could be a game called the houres hersy with indovigle units rules and useble primarkes

The new book is out, will some one just read the damn thing and end this topic?!

Primarchs in battle?! NO!!! It'll ruin the game, these are all super human and more than capable of slaying the toughest of creatures with ease (read: Sanguinius vs the Bloothirster = BT and broken back).

Also a good many are dead or "lost", the rest have turned against the Emperor. So only a few be viable and they'd need stats that put almost everything in the game to shame.

Leave them where they belong. In fluff.


KU

That was no easy kill you idiot first off he had just defended the eternity gate then teh bloodthirster came and beat the crap out of him for a bit in which case Sanguinius got pissed flew up grabbed deamon boy snapped is back over his leg, THEN what happens to Sanguinius? Gets killed by Hours.

That was no easy kill you idiot first off he had just defended the eternity gate then teh bloodthirster came and beat the crap out of him for a bit in which case Sanguinius got pissed flew up grabbed deamon boy snapped is back over his leg, THEN what happens to Sanguinius? Gets killed by Hours.

someone definately has an inflated ego, its one thing to challange a mod but insult them when their right. thats just plain stupid. anyway it was his choice to defend the gate singlehandedly, and then get angry at the bloodthirster beating him to death.

Alright, somebody asked to read the book and end the topic? Well here it is.

So.

- INSERT SPOILER WARNING







--- Seriously, don't read if you don't wanna know how that story ends.






--- Tho it's still a nice novel, I like the individual reactions of the characters when all is revealed to them.






- Here we go :

- The inquisitor is a power hungry servant of chaos working for a greater demon of Tzeentch. Who used his psyker talents to fuel the mental weakness of the marines sent to recover the spear, their hunger for power, their ego, their arrogance, etc...
- The look, wings and changes in appearance of Arkio, the so called reborn angel, were all caused by a seed of chaos planted on the marine by the inquisitor, forged by the greater demon to create a stable mutation for some time. There is a moment in the book where the mutation starts to break out because of the spear, which is the real spear, and almost ruins everything for the chaos poeple.
- The goal is to create a schism that will either start a civil war between the two factions of blood angel that will destroy them. Or to convert them to the service of chaos, again feeding on the arrogance of Arkio and the gene-curse.
- Mephiston meets Arkio on a shrine world and sees the truth behind all this. Chaos ensues after Arkio loses first blood to a duel with Rafen his brother, and Mephiston kicks much asses.
- The followers of Arkio start to recruit human into their army, forming an horde of fanatics.
- Mephiston kicks more asses.
- Arkio turns into what would have been the leader of the new chaos traitor legion, a corrupted version of a vampire. But gets killed by Rafen with the spear.
- All of this while a big fight breaks out on the planet between the blood angel, the followers of Arkio and chaos Word Bearers who were there to help.
- Rafen shows the dead body of Arkio, shouts what happened. And the rebel blood angels turn on the chaos followers.
- The major demon of Tzeentch that was behind all this breaks through the material world by using the Inquisitor body and starts munching on poeple like nice Lords of Change do.
- Rafen kills the demon with the spear. The demon uses his death to curse the blood angels and throw all of them into the black rage.
- Mephiston keeps kicking asses.
- The spear manages to pull them out of the black rage.
- Mephiston decides he hasn't kicked enough asses and so calls an exterminatus on the world where the cult of Arkio took place, killing all his human followers.


So in the end:

- Sanguinus is really dead and lives through the blood of all the blood angels.
- Arkio is a false prophet and a chaos puppet
- Never trust an Inquisitor.


I hope that's enough spoiler for you ;)

I am shocked..SHOCKED at all the heretical statements about Lord Sanguinius. This...this is most disturbing, ohhh everything..going dark. Seriously, Sanguinius was the second most powerful primarch of all, i say first due to my bias. He fought straight for 55 days, he fought 3 not one greater daemons, two bloodthirsters and a keeper of secrets (whatever slaanesh calls his pansies). With all the facts i dont see how no one can see this, he held the gate by himself. HIMSELF, thats 9 legions, equally large hordes of beastmen, plus an equal amount of daemons and still maimed anyone who got close. He only lost to Horus because he chose to lose, the punk Horus couldnt even fight him one on one so he assaulted him with psychic blasts at first, pfft coward. Read the index astartes entry for the blood angels, he was flying about easily dodging Horus' clumsy blows and when he saw the weakness, he stabbed with all his remaining strength breaking his sword, providing the emperor with the opportunity to save mankind. Blood Angels are the greatest that ever was and ever will be.

i have the unstoppable urge to agree to grand master...i wasn't aware that he fought 3 greater daemons (i knew near the start of the war for terra he shot a thirster in the eye, and that was the one that he broke the back of near the end i think) but sanguinius was simply a bad ass son-of-a-biatch

gotta love him

That was no easy kill you idiot first off he had just defended the eternity gate then teh bloodthirster came and beat the crap out of him for a bit in which case Sanguinius got pissed flew up grabbed deamon boy snapped is back over his leg, THEN what happens to Sanguinius? Gets killed by Hours.

WTF?!?! Can't you read my friend? I said SANG killed the BT, I know he was fighting for days on end. Also Sang did kill it easy enough, IIRC Sang was thrown to the floor once, they he flew into the air and broke its back. Now... I'd say killing a BT with that single move was quite easy for the superhuman.

Oh and watch your language, insulting mods leads to a beating. ;)

Oh and he was killed by Horus.. No ****! Horus was blessed by the Chaos Gods, he was a match for the Emperor. Sang chose to face him alone, battered and wery - he chose to try and turn his brother back. Also Sang knew what was going to happen, he had the gift of foresight and he knew that he stood no chance to kill Horus. Yet he tried, he wounded him slightly and just enough for his father to finsh the job.

Not bad for someone who had problems killing a BT eh?

KU

if they did bring them back I am sure it would only be some very cool models.

In gameplay they would have to be limited to 3000+ point games and perhaps only in one campaigain another crusade from abbadon perchance. However in a normal game they would be too good.

Okay, first of all, I have never played as Blood Angels except once when I stood in for a friend of mine at a local hobby shoppe tourney after he came down with the flu. I read the history of the battle at the gates of the palace and when the one-on-one between Sanguinius and the bloodthirster was the hardest of the hard things I've heard in the WH40K universe. At first, the bloodthirsters kicks the living crap outta him, then after he throws Sang down and makes a crater in the street, The primarch gets up and does a back-breaker drop, then throwns the daemon away like it's nothin' but trash. Now you tell me, if the boy was that badass ten thousand years ago, what makes you think he can't still whip up on the bad guys like the young guys do? He may be alive, he may not. It would be pretty cool if he was, since there are some Chaoss Primarchs out there. If they bring back the primarchs, then having one fo them on the board would be like having the Everchosen at the head of your army. Besides that, the mini that came out for Sanguinius looks awesome, nothing like I expected. It totally surprised me that his armor doesn't even closely resemble a Space Marine's. I think it fits quite nicely.

I belive that one resurrection is enough for this thread. Hence I close it.

But to add some information to people, there used to be Primarchs (well Chaos once) in Epic, they raped just about anything (yes, they could kill titans) which is just about the reason why they wouldn't fit in that good in 40k.


For now, over and out.