I for one am glad that it is, and I'm sure that many posters on here will not be sad to see it go either. The Lord of the Rings game is finally running out of steam as the trilogy falls further and further behind us. I really hope GW cancels the line outright shortly and focusses more time on Warhammer and 40k.

As many know, the LOTR game had a bad and well-earned reputation as being too simple and single-minded; it's straightforward good vs. evil, two-faction storyline could never compete with the multi-faction morally ambiguous worlds of the Warhammer games --- they are just so much more interesting than LOTR. It had some alright miniatures, but I will go so far as to say that it was made almost solely for kids, with the hopes of cashing in on the Rings franchise while it was hot. It was designed with a short shelf-life and I'm glad we're finally approaching its end.

Thoughts?

Most of all, I'm glad that if it does go the way of the dinosaur, it will stop taking up valuable space in White Dwarf. Having roughly a third of that wonderful magazine devoted to this game was always a waste. Let's have 50-50 Warhammer/Warhammer 40,000 coverage! Or better yet, cancel Fanatic Magazine and get some Specialist Games coverage back in White Dwarf, like it used to be.

Fanatic's not a bad mag, but I'm a firm Battlefleet Gothic player, and I'm not going to buy a whole magazine just for one or two articles on my beloved game. Fanatic covers 6 games or so...buying it for just one is not reasonable.

I'm glad the LOTR range is running out of steam too

I always remember getting my new White Dwarf, reading all through, and when I reach the LOTR section, I just close the magazine, it wasn't interesting with its simple good v. evil plot and simple gameplay

A game made off of a movie that was made off of a book was never going to appeal to me, I wanted something more original, I for one am happy.

I doubt they will stop the LOTR range anytime soon. GW has a whole bunch of models commin out for the Scourging of the Shire. After that, they will work on all the other battles from the LOTR trilogy. Then, once the Hobbit movie comes out next year, they will make a Hobbit supplement that will last another year or too. I would be willing to bet that they will come out with some supplement for the Lost Tales and the Similarion.

Originally posted by sigismund@Jan 29 2005, 23:12
I doubt they will stop the LOTR range anytime soon. GW has a whole bunch of models commin out for the Scourging of the Shire. After that, they will work on all the other battles from the LOTR trilogy. Then, once the Hobbit movie comes out next year, they will make a Hobbit supplement that will last another year or too. I would be willing to bet that they will come out with some supplement for the Lost Tales and the Similarion.
315802

They are about to release "Battle of Five Armies" AKA Epic scale LotR

Excellent books, excellent films, cruddy tabletop game

I was sucked into getting LOTR miniatures, they were fun for a while and some of the models looked good. But the game system did become a bit boring fairly quickly, it certainly seems to me like it was just made to attract young LOTR fans to GW then eventually pull them over to 40k or WHFB.

As people have mentioned, there is still a fair bit of stuff to be released for it so its not going out anytime soon. Maybe it will get much less coverage like other specialist games which are still occasionally releasing new models.

Then, once the Hobbit movie comes out next year

Has that been confirmed yet? Last I heard Peter Jackson was still trying to wrestle the copyright for it off of the Tolkein Estates and he couldn't begin making the movie.

Has that been confirmed yet? Last I heard Peter Jackson was still trying to wrestle the copyright for it off of the Tolkein Estates and he couldn't begin making the movie.

Well im not 100% sure but I saw a preview online. It had smaug in it so im guessin that its underway.

There are alot of rumours about the Hobbit movie. Last i heard Jackson was saying that he would be looking into it after he's made the remake of the old King Kong movie.

I wish they never made LoTR into movies. I just hate having an argument with somebody about LoTR and then somebody whos only seen the movies join in... alas, i digressed.

I don't know much about the tabletop LoTR, but it seems to me from what has been said in this thread as GW launched it as a stepping stone into the more complex games they had... aswell as trying to make money from the LoTR craze that was sweeping the world after the first movie.

i played lotr for a few years now and i must admit the game gets more dull as time goes buy. but i will still buy them since i mainly just paint them.

you can tell that gw are running out of ideas after all look at the white dwarf thier just converted worriors of gondor and harad with diffrent names.

whats this battle of the five armies i keep hearing about? i asume its going to be a spin-of of warhammer or somthing like that.

or better yet they could remake the games rules and make it more stratagie based instead of some almighty hero efortlesly cutting his way through row upon row of orcs. that would rekindle my afair with Lotr

Yeah, they would have to revamp the entire game just to make it worthwhile. And still I think it would not be great because its story and concepts are just too simple and single-minded compared to those of the two premier GW games.

As for the minis and new releases - I was wondering if they were going to start delving into other aspects of LOTR history, because they've already tapped every unit in the movies, pretty well. Either way, the well will quickly run dry even if they do make new units based on the books. There's just not enough there to keep it going for years and years like the Warhammer games, which are being created as they go. And you know, on second thought, they may not even be able to make new units based on The Hobbit or the Similarion (sp?) because those are the books, and GW, as far as I knew, only had the rights to the movies. Whoever owns the rights to the other books (including The Battle of the Five Armies) would have to be engaged in talks with GW, and a separate deal would have to be struck. I doubt it would even happen, because the owners of the book rights aren't necessarily down with the visualization the movies have taken, and may not want other units/characters from the books brought to life in a way that reflects the movies.

And as far as the Hobbit movie goes, yeah, I think its in production limbo right now. Any previews you may have seen on the net may have either been bogus, wishful thinking, or something that was cooked up before the movie was placed on the backburner. I know for a fact that Peter Jackson is not doing the Hobbit after King Kong. He's working on some other movie, with a weird title...can't think of it right now, but I believe its a drama about someone who dies, then gets to stick around and see how his/her family reacts to the death.

All it comes down to is that I'm happy that the LOTR game is taking hits in the pocket. Like Knape97 said, great books, great movies, but a shame about the game. It may be a while still until it finally dies, as some have suggested, but its on its way out, and the longer we go without a movie to amp future would-be players, the more interest in it is going to wane. Can I get an amen.

Talking about "revamping" LotR, is Battle of the Five Armies just LotR on a larger scale, or have they developed new rules for it? Because on that scale, heroes cutting through Orcs would be fairly tricky (especially considering how few 'heroes' there were at that battle, but I digress), so it might make for a better game.

I do agree, however, that GW managed to do an utterly shoddy job on converting LotR to the tabletop. It could quite easily have been much, much better.

Dan

GW make absolutely HEAPS of cash from LOTR, so its doubtful they will ditch it. It may not be as popular with the 40K & WHFB fans, but it is huge with LOTR fans worldwide

Originally posted by Draegath@Jan 31 2005, 01:38
GW make absolutely HEAPS of cash from LOTR, so its doubtful they will ditch it. It may not be as popular with the 40K & WHFB fans, but it is huge with LOTR fans worldwide
316806

This is true, but the whole point of this news report is that GW are beginning to make less money. As there is no reason for Fantasy or 40K players to reduce spending (indeed, 40K players have a whole new edition to start buying) then it follows that GW must be losing money on either the Specialist Games or LotR. As the Fanatic games are tiny compared to 'the Big Three', it must be LotR that is losing money. And so it follows that GW are going to consider dumping it.

Of course, this brings up the interesting point that GW may have brought out the 4th edition of 40K in order to make up some of their lost profits of LotR, having anticipated this drop-off in sales.

Dan

well I guess they can only buoy up the interest with endless articles on harad and the bloody oliphaunt for so long...

Originally posted by Draegath@Jan 31 2005, 01:48
well I guess they can only buoy up the interest with endless articles on harad and the bloody oliphaunt for so long...
316815

And buoy it they will! :P

Dan

I just hope that if anything, they just shift LotR to the Fanatic magazine.

Originally posted by FlatFeet@Jan 31 2005, 02:03
I just hope that if anything, they just shift LotR to the Fanatic magazine.
316838

I very much doubt they would. After all, how many LotR players (that is to say, those who have only ever played LotR) are going to be interested in BloodBowl articles? If anything, they'll sell the franchise to a different business and get rid of the problem completely.

Dan

Originally posted by Odd_Bloke@Jan 31 2005, 15:06
I very much doubt they would. After all, how many LotR players (that is to say, those who have only ever played LotR) are going to be interested in BloodBowl articles? If anything, they'll sell the franchise to a different business and get rid of the problem completely.

Dan
316844


You could toss this the other way and say "How many 40k players are going to be interested in LotR articles?"

I like the idea of them giving it to some other company.

Originally posted by FlatFeet@Jan 31 2005, 02:09
You could toss this the other way and say "How many 40k players are going to be interested in LotR articles?"
316853

You could, but GW have good reason to include LotR in WD, as it makes up a large proportion of their profits, but not enough to justify its own magazine. Whereas, even after it gets shunted from WD-status, it'll still be making a considerable amount more than the Fanatic-status games, where it would have to share with too many other games to be viable.

And, yes, the other company idea is a great one. Remember, you heard it here first. ;)

Dan

Originally posted by Odd_Bloke@Jan 30 2005, 21:06
I very much doubt they would. After all, how many LotR players (that is to say, those who have only ever played LotR) are going to be interested in BloodBowl articles? If anything, they'll sell the franchise to a different business and get rid of the problem completely.

Dan
316844


And that's the point I would argue, as a Battlefleet Gothic player. BFG has a hell of a lot more to do with the 40k universe than Bloodbowl or Necromunda or Inquisitor does: it covers the other major battles of that universe - land battles in 40k, space battles in BFG.

As a BFG player, I'm never going to buy a magazine that shares my game's space with 6 other games...that's just silly. I don't know what GW was thinking, or what their numbers are for Fanatic, but I can't imagine they would be very high. For my BFG info, I just rummage about online. Ideally, I would like to see LOTR dropped or transferred to Fanatic magazine in a year or two, and White Dwarf be full of Warhammer, Warhammer 40,000, Battlefleet Gothic, and Epic as those four games all deal with the main battles in those universes, whereas the other Specialist games all deal with a "gimmick" or small part of the story, such as gangs at a hive world or football (which is just goofy).

The issue you'd then have is that 40K gamers such as myself would be buying a WD which was only 1/4 my game. I rarely buy WD with 1/3 of it covering my game, and would almost never if there was only 1/4. I personally think that GW should try and work out an e-zine for each of the Specialist Games and drop the Fanatic magazine.

Dan

Well LOTR shouldn't be in white dwarf b/c it really doesn't have anything to do with the other 2 tabletop games. I agree that WD should be mainlly warhammer warhammer 40k and a little bit of BFG as it IS a part of warhammer 40k and is pretty popular (not AS popular as the other 2 but a good enouf amount of players) In fact the reason why i don't have a subcription to WD is b/c thier just isn't enouf on warhammer 40k and that's all i play. But i still don't mind reading about warhammer........ lotr is just boreing and simple minded :hmm:

I dont think that GW should out the LOTR articles in WD as it is a magazine about their universes, either Fantasy or 40K, LOTR is their system but not a world that they created.

Well, since Fanatic issue 10 is going to be the last ever produced, I seriously doubt LOTR will ever make it into those pages. Which also sniffs of Fanatic being a seriously loss making arm of GW just now - hardly surprising since you can now get the full rules for everything but Warmaster (the Magic and scenarios are missing) completely online and have virtually no presence in the GW stores. Also bear in mind that GW will make a lot of it's cash from it's miniatures, and most Specialist Games require very little in the way of outlay to get playing. i.e You can play Mordheim just by buying an Empire Militia box, compared to Fantasy, and you can easily buy five times more to get started properly.

LOTR relies heavily on collectors, more so than other games. Many people buy the miniatures, but never even want to start playing (mainly because of the uber cheesy players that show the game off - mainly the fault of the rules in that there is no army lists - just good and evil - just ripe for powergamers to take elves for shooting, and Dwarves and Army of the Dead for combat.)

Many issues with LOTR have been ironed out with the Battle Companies system, which turns it almost into a Mordheim type game, which where it excels - nice and skirmishy. But the grey area is where it will end up - GW cannot sustain a game that sells some cool miniatures and little more.

My main problem with LOTR is that it doesn't know what it wants to be. It says 'Strategy Battle Game' on the front, yet the only real strategies I've seen is being able to choose to go 'Good' and have lots of Elves. The rulebooks give a great deal of scenarios, yet they only work with a select group of models, or else the point goes out the window - the tournament rules are no help either, as it all just turns into a boring line 'em up battle - fun for maybe two games!

Which is where the problem lies - the game has aimed for a young group of gamers, and has achieved that, young gamers - the older more vocal GW stalwarts have felt cheated by what may have been a promising alternative to their WFB or 40k games.
I would've liked less ties to the film, and more imagination about the rest of Middle Earth, but in a way that made games vaguely fair.

It might be an idea to, rather than just bring out supplement x exploring area y all the time, actually producing some proper campaigns, perhaps some random encounters - like forest spiders, hill trolls, Fire drakes - putting the control in the hands of the players, and putting a stop to all the cheesy High Elf players...

I'm sure LOTR has a future, as it's a system that has been adopted by thousands of players - whether or not they are playing a game you want to, doesn't make it wrong, if they wanna keep playing it, then let them - don't have GW panic when the slightest bit of sales drop (no LOTR rulebook for over a year) - if they dropped any game like that, they would've dropped WFB three years ago, when it was amounting to about 10% of their sales.

LOTR is one of those things - it was a total cash-in product, which is suffering for the lack of current publicity - no films, no new DVDs, no news, nothing.

Three options really -
1. they turn LOTR into a far more attractive option for wargamers, old and new - with maybe more defined rules regarding massed combat (flanking etc.) and shooting (long range vs short etc) and other little niggles. This will make LOTR a much more grown up game.
2. Wait another three years until something reinvigorates the films (since that's what it's been sold on the back on) like the Ultimate Super-DVD or even The Hobbit film
3. Relegate it to the bin-end of workshop history like so many other GW classics (Advanced HeroQuest and Space Crusade were simple and a bit 'rubbish' but many of us look back fondly)

Just my five dollars worth (It started out at two cents but at 12.3% Interest has grown sizably since I started this post...)

GW made a big mistake by making LOTR. They wanted to make a quick buck, which they did, but didn't realize that the buzz of the LOTR movies are going to wear out uber-fast, which in turn, is going to make big problems for GW for years to come. GW knew better.

Oh my *****ing god do people bitch!!! Ye gods people it's a game, and GW snapped up the right to it. This is a very intelligent action from the company, if they didn't someone would have and they'd be loosing out on lots more money. They are after all a business and as such will expand and grow when they need, the LOTR stuff drew lots of new gamers: yes they're young and the older gamers hate them (becuase they've not really learnt the rules or some crap) but hey, money is money.

Do I dislike the LOTR section of WD? Yes, I'll occassionally flick through the pages of it and read a bit but does it mean I won't buy the mag because a third system has been introduced? No. You all seem to believe that because the sales have slumped GW will stop priducing stuff for it, why? This is a relativly new game and they're still ironing out the kinks in it, people complain about the "almighty and powerful" heros in it. I ask; Did you not watch the film/read the books? They're going to be like that beacuse it's how they were written/protrayed in the books/films, so why would they remove that aspect which seems kinda pivitol in the books? They are now covering more of the world which Tolklen wrote, this gives them a great expanse to open the game up with. How much is truely known about what dwells in Mordor or beyond? GW have taken this and begun to expand on what Tolken had penned. I see this going on for a long time yet.

Yes it's not as popular as it was with the film's releases but then would you really expect it to be? Every thing has slumps in sales, LOTR may die completely or it may become another super power of the gaming world (so to speak) no one knows. This is what time will tell.


But what I fail to see is, why should BFG get into WD? Why not Nercomunda or Mordhiem or Warmaster or Bloodbowl or Epic or Inquisitor? Surely these games are a large part of that game/world, are they not? So why just BFG? But then people will complain how there's too much "40k/fb/BFG etc" as everyone seems to now. Of course if you play only one system you're goping to view that mag such that it seems only logical that "your" system should take more room than any others and others will think their's should. This has been the same as it has for years, people will complain there's one more article about 40k/fb than there is of fb/40k even if a new army has been released. Its the way it is and has always been, I see no foreseen changes to this.

Oh and Fanatic isn't going to be a brought mag, it's going online as a pdf now.

So in conclusion... get over it!! LOTR is here to stay for some time, deal with it.

KU

But what I fail to see is, why should BFG get into WD? Why not Nercomunda or Mordhiem or Warmaster or Bloodbowl or Epic or Inquisitor? Surely these games are a large part of that game/world, are they not? So why just BFG? But then people will complain how there's too much "40k/fb/BFG etc" as everyone seems to now. Of course if you play only one system you're goping to view that mag such that it seems only logical that "your" system should take more room than any others and others will think their's should.

Good point. And I play several systems including both 40k and fantasy so I see WD as worth it.

What I think for it, they should not force a huge section of it to be LOTR nor should something like BFG play a part in every WD. If they have something interesting to add (maybe a nice battle report, some news, previews of new models, whatever) from any system including the old specialist ones, they should be put in the White Dwarf. It is a magazine on the GW hobby so why not put any system in if it has something interesting and worthwhile to add? The huge LOTR section is getting a bit boring to me now, as would a large section of any specific system besides the two big ones. That is why it neds to include everything, this may also attract new players to the older specialist sytems.

Great point strewart.

This may get a wee bit off topic, but bear with me. I've always wished that White Dwarf coverage would be determined by popularity of the game. Sound good? Usually in a 140 page + White Dwarf, the first 70-80 pages are Fantasy, the next 40-50 pages are 40k, and then the remainder is LOTR.

Well, why not trim that and clean it up a bit. As you may or may not know (just look at the player representation here on LO), 40k is the most popular game system by far. So why is it usually stuck with around half of the pages that Warhammer FB gets? Fantasy is far less popular and I would reckon that a better division of WD's space would be 80 pages 40k, 50 Fantasy, and only 10-20 for LOTR. After all, GW seems to be about pleasing its percentage fanbase in other ways (catering to Space Marine players, for instance), so why not let the popularity do the talking as to White Dwarf's content?

P.S. ....I just don't think I can stand looking at another article about the "awesome Mumakil model".... grumble grumble grumble - they've featured that bloody thing in the last 7 issues or so, and every layout of it looks the same!

Yea that's the way it should be BUT i dought it will happen b/c WF has beeen around longer and White Dwarf was deicated to it for longer than 40k. Since people generally do not like change the 40k players will have to pass 100 pages of bs to get to the good stuff! and vice versa.

Originally posted by King Ulrik Flamebeard@Feb 3 2005, 12:31
You all seem to believe that because the sales have slumped GW will stop priducing stuff for it, why?

Because they only bought the rights to cash-in on the huge sales they'd get from the films. When the sales stop (though I am not saying they have yet reached enough of a slowdown), then GW will cash-out and sell it off to someone else who is better suited to suppoting a more collector-based fanbase. (Just MHO, I hasten to add).

This is a relativly new game

Compared to GW's other games, yes. Compared to the lifetime of the films, it is beginning to look rather venerable already.

they're still ironing out the kinks in it, people complain about the "almighty and powerful" heros in it. I ask; Did you not watch the film/read the books? They're going to be like that beacuse it's how they were written/protrayed in the books/films, so why would they remove that aspect which seems kinda pivitol in the books?
Because you can count the number of times heroism on the LotR-book scale has happened in Middle Earth on one hand. It is not common. Many/all people would have prefered a game set in the LotR-world, with looser ties to the actual story (as has already been mentioned in the thread). Would 40K players be happy if all they could do was replay the Battle of Terra and suchforth over and over again?

They are now covering more of the world which Tolklen wrote, this gives them a great expanse to open the game up with. How much is truely known about what dwells in Mordor or beyond? GW have taken this and begun to expand on what Tolken had penned. I see this going on for a long time yet.
At last! Something we agree on! :P I sincerely hope that GW do expand away from the books (and the films, I suppose ;)) and, possibly, redevelop the system to include slightly more balancing armies.

Oh and Fanatic isn't going to be a brought mag, it's going online as a pdf now.
Sorry to be backward, when did this news come out? (not doubting, just wondering)

As I said above, all this is all just my own humble opinion (apart from the bits where I'm playing devil's advocate), so please don't take any offense (well, not too much). :P

Cheers,
Dan