Well, first off in my experiances i have had very few people cheat in 40k. But recently we started up a tourny/campaign at our store where there is a reward involved, like a seventy five dollar store credit for first, fifty for second, and tewnty five for third, plus i think some small ten dollar ones for honorouble mention type things. And with money involved, people have been starting to cheat a bit. The guy who is runnign the campaign, another guy, and I have been noticing it, but becuase we don't know everything about all the armies, its really hard to tell, and when people are cheating, they don't tell you. So far we have "kicked" two people out for cheating (tyranid mutation abusing, and a person who went 300 points over in a 1000 point game), but i know there are more, we just haven't caught them yet. O and we did warn them first :(

But anyways, I would like to know your experiances with cheaters, if you have had any, and some good ways to solve the problem and to confront them without making them never want to come back. Also maybe some things you have seen happen more than once that we might want to look out for.

It happened quite a bit at the store I used to go to (that horrible place, or "the store that shall not be named") but not where I play now.The place I play now is a much more laid back enviroment,rules can be stretched a little,but we've never caught anybody cheating.It's kinda hard to cheap,most of us know enough about all the armies to catch anything dishonest.I'd just recommend you familiarise yourself with as much as you can,buy codexes for armies you don't play,stuff like that.

I have had the same thing happen and it involved the same sort of prize system. What I have found that works is not to mention any sort of prizes but just tell them that there is a special surprize for the winner. With that you may not have as many cheaters and if you do you should be able to spot them a bit quicker. Just make sure that no one knows what the real prize is.

I have found out that if you tell everyone that they MUST own the codex to play in the tourny. If there is an argument(or one player is suspecting a cheater) then they must PROVE it by showing the other player the rule in the codex.

Hope that helps

Well its to late for the prize thing, and everyone owns a codex or is like me and a couple of the other guys and have two or three codexs, but yea peeps must own a codex cuase the army lists needed to be made out before the thing started and one of the store owners went over them all to make sure they were ok (with revised rules). Is there anything that you guys have seen happen enough times that it is a problem to look out for?

When most people cheat, it is with the dice. They will pick up extra dice and roll extra dice. So the best thing to do it to keep an eye out when people roll dice and ask why they have so many dice.

Well, the most usual cheating I have seen are people going over the point limits. The most blatant abuse of this was in a warhammer world tournament where the guy had fit around 1800 points in a 1000 point world eater army. Basically he counted each upgrade once (so mark of khorne x points, chainaxes y points, etc.) and gave them to all his units. Plus he fit in two berserker glaives (and only paid for one).

As for local tournaments with prizes, Winter War just finished in my local GW. The final result would be based on points (5 for a victory, 3 for a draw, 1 for a defeat), so this guy started jotting down games he never played so he could get an advantage. It was really funny. Tuesdsay afternoon he had 7 victories, 1 loss, 2 draws, then he plays 2 games that afternoon and when I checked his card again later he had 13 victories, 2 losses, 4 draws. He lost in the end though. He's the same guy who armed his chaplain with a thunder hammer and power weapon and tried to hit with the thunder hammer in initiative order.

People that play armies with an insane amount of c.c. attacks (40 dice to roll) they will start quickly picking up dice even if they are not the right score. Ex. need 4's to hit. They roll 40 dice and hurrily pick up some 3's on the side.

i didnt have to count up howmany points were in this guys space marine army to tell he was cheating cause he had as many spacemariens on the feild as my friend had eldar

Originally posted by sigismund@Feb 5 2005, 16:41
People that play armies with an insane amount of c.c. attacks (40 dice to roll) they will start quickly picking up dice even if they are not the right score. Ex. need 4's to hit. They roll 40 dice and hurrily pick up some 3's on the side.
I have that many attacks often (I play World Eaters), and I never do this. If you have to cheat to win then there's no point playing the game - since the main purpose is to have fun. More than once someone has asked to count the huge handful of dice I'm about to roll, and there's always the exact number or less (if I lose count I take some out - frankly with ~40 attacks one or two more ain't gonna make much difference).

I havent had that much experience with people cheating, but I have seen people move their figures beyond their max distance sometimes. I can also understand the rolling 40-some dice and picking out some extras in there.

I never have any problems with cheating, and if there's some argue about if it is or not, we generally get a spectator to roll a 4+.
This generally isnt a problem, because i play on Vets night most of the time, and everyone there knows how to play properly, so no-one cheats, because they are mature.
The only thing that could count as "cheating" is moving a model over 6" by accident.
I agree with Anacron taht there's no point playing if you cheat.

Yeah, I have to say you dont see much cheating at the store where I play. What you do see are people making honest mistakes, but this is usually made up for by them making mistakes both in their favour and some which detract from their chances. A lot of the time people simply dont remember their army list well enough and so quite a few of us have taken the policy of always placing a comprehensive points list with the stats of each unit on the table when we play a game. In this way both players can see exactly whats going on and it helps to remind you to use stuff like that auspex you paid for with your spare couple of points.

~40 attacks one or two more ain't gonna make much difference).

You would be surprised. If your goin up against space marines or termies, every little bit helps.

Yea i have gotten over 40 attaks easily, but what I and the people at my place do is roll then in two or more groups. Spotting someone picking up a 3 when you needed fours is a lot easier to see with 20 dice.

Don't get me started on 'every little helps!' last time I fought bezerkers it was with a tau army, and I kept them in CC with a unit of stealth warriors long enough to keep them away from other units for the whole game.
Damnit, if he had used more dice, i'd probably have been slaughtered!

Well couple of months back one of my regular playmates and friend alerted me to one of the slieazyest types of cheating. There was this Eldar guy (We all know that Eldar players are cheesy) who "converted" some of his Dice to roll 3+ am bit more often than usual .How he did that you might ask? Easy he painted a small dot on the side of the 2 in order to make it a 3 and to top it he painted another small dot on the side of 4 to make it a 5 (i guess he did that so he could wound more easily) So his Eldar's were hitting on a 2+ and wounding on a 4+. So what do you thing about that.

Thats like really bad cheating though. And no one would ever suspect the dice to be rigged like that....

Originally posted by black_duke_II@Feb 5 2005, 22:21
We all know that Eldar players are cheesy
Oh dear. :huh: You might want to retract that statement.

I ussually play with my friends at a home, so it is ussually relaxed and rather cheat free.

The only cheating that can go on when i play are my oponents goint over points. Most of the time it isn't intentional........well they claim it isn't intentional :glare: But cheating on the table is hard b/c i don't know about you guys but i watch my oponent roll thier dice and move thier models. PLus i know MOST of the rules for each army, and if i don't know a rule i look at the codex and add it to my knowledge anyways :closedeyes: But when i started out i bet i got cheated on and didn't have a clue what was going on.........i did lose m first 4 games :huh:

I have had some experience with cheating at my local game store. The best advice is to confront these people, talk to them. Make sure they know that you know they cheat. I have also started to only play people that have their codex AND army list ON the table with them so we can clear up any arguments. Also make sure there is a rulebook nearby, as it is always needed.

The dice snatching is a bit more complicated, because apart from your word, there's no proof unless you have a video camera on the cheater :P Here's what you do, at the start of the game make it QUITE CLEAR to your opponent that you both may only pick up and remove the dice that FAIL to hit/wound/etc. That way you can see how many there are.


Hope I Helped!
-lotr88

The most common form I see is with movement. Lining the front of the bass up with the 6" mark and moving so that the back of the bass is at the 0 mk. A lot of people try to get that extra inch of bass depth in.

Half the time you tell them and they don't know what you are on about.....

My friends and I play together, there is no real award for winning, we don't really care who's good or who's bad. When someone breaks the rules, it's usually unintentionaly.

I had an opportunity to play with some other locals at a recent store tournament, it was a lot of fun except for one kid who fielded 200 or so points over. They caught him and he denied everything. He got banned from the store!

Wow your local store is pretty tough. How long did he get banned for?

i have only encountered one instance of someone cheating against me, but have encountered quite a few instances of extreme rule bending...but i really don't want to recall them, it depresses me.

Well allot of cheating players are early teens with the lust for a win, and usually have a bad temper. The best way I have found so far is to confront him about it every time it happens, but not try to humiliate him, but make him grasp the wrong in what he as done. For extra points, make them get lists and before the game swap lists and access the actual units, kind of like WYSIWYG. Don't do this for trust worthy people thought.

Dice snatching is a problem, but if he goes too fast for you ask him to wait or to reroll when in big doubt.

Understand the cheater sometimes isn't intentionally cheating, so on the first time give him the benefit of the doubt, but after multiple occasions, start giving out fair warnings, it's just a game.

Wow your local store is pretty tough. How long did he get banned for?
THe same thing would happen at my store, if it was a store tourny. THe problem with ours is we are just hosting it in the store, and there was a small admission fee (like 5 bucks i think) to pay for prizes which we figured out how much depending on amount of peeps who came in. O and the store doesn't care if its not there tourny....

i have only encountered one instance of someone cheating against me, but have encountered quite a few instances of extreme rule bending...but i really don't want to recall them, it depresses me.

But i want you to recall them, thats the whole point of this thread.

Yea the most common form of it is the extra inch or two. The worst example is a guy who measures it out then puts the tape away and moves the guy a bit to far and uses that to move his guys closer together so the back guy ends up going 10 inches. That annoys me.

I would bet the next easiest thing is adding extra dice. When they are rolling 40 dice it is prety easy to see if they pick up the wrong ones. At least for me. It is next to impossible to see if they are actually rolling 45 dice.

But most of the time I play with friends or older guys. Most of em dont cheat, at least not intentionally.

One rule you should always play with against people you arent familiar with. Bring an army list. This prevents so much. Make them bring one too. Then just pay attention. though, it does get annoying having to watch the other guy if you suspect something.

well thanks Wolf_Pack for the generilisation

Well allot of cheating players are early teens with the lust for a win, and usually have a bad temper

i am a young teen, and i dont cheat, oh sorry, in one game i went over by 1 point. obviously i am a early teen with a lust to win, with a bad temper.......

sigh, why are older players so biased to players my age. :(

The key word in his statement was ALOT not EVERY. The truth is ALOT of teens (this is kinda my age group as well) cheat b/c they care more about winning then the older players.

In fact the worst case of cheating i've ever witnessed was from a 13 year old who played necrons and tau. This is right when they first came out and me and my buddies didn't know the slighest thing about them. The little guy cheated soo much that he destroyed my friends ENTIRE 1500 point chaos army turn 1! :mellow: Yea we took a nice look at the codex (the store copy as he just so happened to have left his at home......... :glare: ) and found the real rules on tau. From then on the only people who would play him were the new guys who didn't know any better. People like that really P*ss me off :angry: :angry:

Edit:
I said P*ss and it replaced it with yellow water. Since "yellow water" didn't make sence in the sentence i had to change it.

Worst cheating i have seen is with a tyranid player. That person ignored the mutation rules on everyone, so the person had 32 strgh 5 leapy gaunts in a "2000" pt game, when you can't have that many strgth 5 gaunts anyways, cuase they can only go to four, and the person also was dice cheating with all the attacks i think they added a couple, and they took up 2s a couple times to hit, which no one ever gets, and the list goes on and on.

O and they were 1000 pts over the 2000 pt limit with all the upgrades that they payed four even they they shouldn't have been able to anyways.

Worst case I've seen is a young lad (13ish) that has various models that represent whatever he wants that day. (no WYSIWYG) At one time one of his squads started the game as Tactical squad 1 and ended up on turn 3 to be Terminator squad 1. I'm all for subing in a model here and there in freindly games but not to coo on the mutating army list thing. Anyway I dont play that store anymore.

How long? 2 months.

The most common intentional cheating in the games I have seen are people sneaking models back onto the table. And I don't even see it that often.

Originally posted by bonjordo@Feb 7 2005, 00:13
well thanks Wolf_Pack for the generilisation
i am a young teen, and i dont cheat, oh sorry, in one game i went over by 1 point. obviously i am a early teen with a lust to win, with a bad temper.......

sigh, why are older players so biased to players my age. :(
322532

Wow you fail to grasp his point. He isnt directing anything at you i myself am 16 but i play orks so no lust to win just lust to krump stuff. He is jsut saying that most people who cheat are like that so cool it.

We have one person who tends to goof on the rules a bit but I don't think he even knows it, he get confused on how HK missiles work and he uses them a lot so it gets kind of weird.

But usually where I go to no ones tends to cheat, of course there is only four or five people who play.

you know, they could be sneaking models on a lot more, you just don't see it. Cuase they are sneaking them on.

Playing Space Wolves, I get Suspicion on this a lot ("PLEASE! NO WAY YOUR 10 MAN BLOOD CLAW UNIT GETS 40 ATTACKS ON THE CHARGE!") Ug. Honestly, I never cheat, although I have occasionally forgotten certain rules for magic items in Fantasy.... never BLATANTLY cheating, but I play DE, and not correcting someone every once in awhile.... I only do it amongst friends though. I'd feel dirty doing something underhanded like that in a tourney. Anyway, as far as SW go, I pick out all the missing dice, not even touching the ones that hit until I remove all the missers. This way my opponent can be sure that I don't re-roll or flip a few 3's over.

i have had people cheat by the "intentional mess up" where they nock over something (dice or models) then set them up advantagouslly other than that its just newbs screwwing up

My personal favorite is when your oponent picks up your model (most of the time a dread or leader) and looks at it......only to put it back farther away to keep it out of cc :glare: It really bugs me.

Originally posted by moody@Feb 6 2005, 19:32
The most common form I see is with movement. Lining the front of the bass up with the 6" mark and moving so that the back of the bass is at the 0 mk. A lot of people try to get that extra inch of bass depth in.

Half the time you tell them and they don't know what you are on about.....
322396


We had a guy (actually, he was a kid, 17 or 18) who would do that constantly. Someone found a clever way around it though. When he measured his distance to shoot at the unit (especially if it was close) he made sure there were other people around who heard the number. Then, when the offender moved 7-8" away, he'd just move his troops so they were the same shooting distance away. The kid called him on it, and he said "well, if you moved 6" and I moved 6" the shooting distance is the same, right?"

He never tried getting the extra move again and stopped showing up shortly after that.

Alaitoc player that didn't show its craftworld codex. Said if thigns wouldn't be able to pin because of fearless etc they would be put into reserves instead :P.

another uhmm moving more then able fast dice rolling and you cant see wat he throwed shooting twice with the same unit. Some more like that dirt But even I have cheated with my talos once while moving (I dotn use a platform to unpractical) I moved him like 0.5 a inch to far so he got into CC. (Doesnt make sense he was complaining the turn before he was in rapid fire range so 6+6 would be 12 right?)

Well my brother doesnt know the rules, so if he didnt think i was a geek and play it with me i would destroy... i mean cheat against him

sorry

OK OK OK I admit it when me and my buddy first got into the hobby I was playing a WE army and he was playing (shudder) Necrons. now we arent the richest people in the world so for a LOOOOONG time I was getting Stomped by the 'Crons I was about to trash my army and buy somethin else when I got the plan to buy a Daemon Prince Make some crazy rules and woooop his butt, and i did once. Afterwards I told him of my scheme we had a laugh and he wooped me hard in another game. The only time i have ever cheated man i feel better now thats off my chest

I find moving generates the most anoyances. Especially when you can blatantly see that the tape measure is just there for show.

One kid measured out 6 inches for movement then simply moved them into the formation he wanted. Not even bothering to check. I didn't mind, next turn spelled doom for the unit as my basilisk anihilated it.

As an ex-veteran cheater (hey, come on, i was using 2 extra dice as imp guard against tyranids in close combat - i was gonna lose anyway!) ican spot the stuff like no other - extra upg for imp guard armys for intsance... carapace armor being the easiest to get away with. it 10 pts p/unit, not per army (i look evily in ur direction, JASON, not naming names) also, its a little sus if there is as many marines as dudes in my imp guard army... <_< but ur always gonna get cheaters, u kno. Theymay not get away wit it the 1st time, but they will at least once. Im not sayin its rite, but u cant stop it.

knid regards (HA!)

The SaRGE oF RvB