In WD276 there was a hint that the primachs would be returning! The main hint was that in former past or future to us Leman Russ said that he was to return at the Wolfern time which would be when the 13th space wolves company would return....hmmmm...guess who's back :P !

(Beging search in fluff section of brain) :? But as for the primachs...well even if they did not all of them would be back because some are dead. However Sangnerous (can't spell) is dead in stasis and his wounds are said to be healing. And Ferrus Manus was killed in action....Robute Guilliman's body is also said to be in stasis.....Rogal Dorn fists are said to be with his chapter, as well as on a cathedral door on his home planet, as well as traveling with one of his company's (hmmm :roll: ...cool...did Dorn have 7 fists??) and Lion el'Joson is said to be sleeping. So how is that going to work? If they do bring out the primachs back are they only going to bring back a few?

However as we all know GW loves making cash :x and what a great seller that the primachs would make!

The rise of everything else is coming (look at Eldar and that....hmmm can't remember name...well anyway that Eldar dude is coming back), we got the rise of necrons...well just check out this WD and check out the statements for each army for the Eye of Terror campaign. :twisted:

I seriously cannot forsee the primachs return. But still it's going to be an exciting campaign! :D

I heard it too, but I think it's only some of them, nd omly in fluff.

What are u talking about? Primarch? is that a character in a book or is it a character in the game? *confused*

primachs are the emperor's sons and the geneseed of the SM came from them. primachs are characters of the game.

Dude, that's about the first piece of fluff anyone learns... Oh well, guess we can't all be insane enough to buy codexes and IA books just to get some more fluff :roll:.

Wow. The return of the Primarchs. Shame I play IG (well no it isn't. Fear the Gaurd!). Would maybe the Chaos Primarchs return too? Someone like Magnus the Red of the Thousands Sons, maybe?

I doubt they would have game rules for the primarchs. If their stats weren't incredibly good they would be dying all the time, and the primarchs dying alot, well, that wouldn't be right. If their stats were insanely good (but apprpriate) then they would be too expensive to use. But I could see them bringing out the models. Maybe they'd bring out the models of the Chaos primarchs too...(being a devout BA player I would have to find someone with a Horus model and settle an old score.... :evil: )

Have they been out b4? in the Warhammer 40k game?

No. Eventually there have been stats for them in Rogue Trader, but that was a long time before i started 40K.
However, in the fluff at least the traitor primarchs have returned many times - Angron lead the chaos invasion in the first (?) war of armageddon.

jwu

U can still get hold of the Leman Russ model on the games workshop website if u look for it ;)

mind you i suppose the stats of primach would be simular to a demon prince so if chaos have those and sm have the primachs it would kind of equal it out. But then what about the over army's? Does anyone notice that GW support is mainly dedicated to only a few army's. Or am i just being a moaning sister again? :-)

not moaning sis, whining sis.. ;p

when are the primarchs coming? are they avaiable thru forge world?

They aren't available yet...unless its the Leman Russ model that Iron_smith was on about and you can mail order that from GW. It's just a rumour.

here is the link :

http://www.games-workshop.com/storefront/s...database=200447 (http://www.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Odd&odd=RaceLayout2&_do=Default&code=yes&game=200056&database=200447)

it wasn't a rumor :mrgreen:

Hey... Love that Marneus Calgar mini... Never saw that one before...

Imagine playing with that.
"This is my fearsome leader Marneus Calgar who will crush your Champion like a bug!"
"Will he be getting out of that chair for that?"

I mean this, if the Space Marines Primaches are coming back, then also the chaos primaches should come back.
At the same time I refer to the historic event "Siege at the emperors palace".
It sais there that after Horus death, the Sons of Horus chpter brought their primach with them to the eye of terror.

At some point it sais that the body of Horus was taken from them, and then to be cloned....

Just think of the ficle nature of Chaos, they DO have the power to bring bach the primaches...

Eztrovia!

Ye but also remember like u mention that they can clone people but at the same time most of the primarch were either blown up or bodys taken captive e.g. the crismon fist primarch i think the only part of his body that was left was his servo hand

Hmmmmm to bad...

Ofcourse they have to consider the history thay have written for the different primaches.

It could maybe be hard to bring back the Primach of the Alpha legion.
He was killed by Guilleiman of the Ultramarines...

Kasutta!

Well yes he was killed, but they never said what happened to the body did they? Perhaps some Alpha Legionaires took the body with them.

Could be...

In the grim darkness of the 41st. millenium... anything is possible...

Indeed. However the Alpha Legion doesn't have much contact with the Gods so they'd have to find some other way to resurrecct him. Hmmm Fabius Bile?

well, if not GW makes the primarchs, maybe the crazed bafoons at ForgeWorld will. I mean, no one really needs a umpteen inches long Thunderhawk gunship, or a Titan that's taller than your big brother, just like noone would really need Horus, Roboute, Lion or Angron, which'd have to be so good, they'd cost a zillion points (also, remember the old Epic Primarchs? They're the size of Greater Daemons for crying out loud :)

btw, speaking of Epic, anyone remember Mortarion, Death Guard, kinda looked like the Grim Reaper, with scythe and alll. He makes for the best statue ever! In fact, all the Epic Greater Daemons and Primarchs do, and since none of them have future stuff on them, they can be used both of FB and 40K. check out the pics of them http://www.nucleus.com/~richdesn/ChaosWeb/...b/primarch.html (http://www.nucleus.com/~richdesn/ChaosWeb/primarch.html)

ahh Angron and Magnus look rather stupid, but Mortarion is cool!!! You're right, he'd be perfect for a statue!
And you could be right about FW too. They make a lot of stuff even though there won't be a lot of ppl buying it (how many order for a 400+ euro Titan would they get?), I could see them making models for Primarchs just for the heck of it. Who knows, GW ppl are smart enough not to write stats for them or anything, but I bet there's some nutcases at FW more than happy to make them playable!

I dont think the Primarchs would be that amazing. In some fluff Sanguinius fights a bloodthirster at the gates of the palace on terra during the siege and he has quite a bit of trouble. The most powerful (Lion el'Jonson, Russ or Sanguinius) would probably have stats around the 5-7s with a couple of special rules. Probably about 300-400 points I would guess. I think their main value was as inspirational leaders and strategists.

Isn't it odd that nearly all the loyalist primarchs have some story meaning they could return?

Russ - lost in the warp
Jonson - Sleeping in The Rock
Guilliman - In stasis on Macragge (fatal wounds healing?)
Dorn - presumed dead (but no proper evidence found)
Ferrus - missing on Istvaan
Jaghatai - lost in the warp
Vulkan - not sure
Corax - not sure
Sanguinius - dead as a doornail (umm...)

I think that is because otherwise all us Chaos followers could bash the emperor's lapdogs even more, seeing most Chaos Primarchs are now Daemon Primarchs. They already are way more powerful than a 'normal' primarch, but if the imperium had no living primarchs there would be nothing that could hope to compare.

except the cool sensei, apparently...

What Leman Russ said is: "At the end I will be there. For the final battle. For the Wolftime."

Hmmmm. Did anyone else read the article in White Dwarf #279 about Login Grimnar? This is another hint about the 13th company of the space wolves and Leman Russ. They just might do something with primarchs in the Eye of Terror Codex.

I dont think the Primarchs would be that amazing. In some fluff Sanguinius fights a bloodthirster at the gates of the palace on terra during the siege and he has quite a bit of trouble. The most powerful (Lion el'Jonson, Russ or Sanguinius) would probably have stats around the 5-7s with a couple of special rules. Probably about 300-400 points I would guess. I think their main value was as inspirational leaders and strategists.
At the time he had been fighting for weeks I believe with no rest and his body was covered with ghastly wounds. He was incredibly torn up and still was able to best a Bloodthirster in dramatic fashion (breaking its back over his knee!). In decent shape he would be much better. Yes their biggest value was as inspirational leaders and strategists, but they were superior to pretty much anything but another primarch in terms of skills also.

I finally took a look at the WD276 article Sis was talking about, and yeah, it looks like the primarchs or something similar is coming back. On the other hand I don't like the idea of having primarchs in games (I don't even like the idea of having special characters in games except for huge games). Think about it..."Oh great, Horus, the greatest of the primarchs, the equal of the mighty emperor in combat, has been killed...um..." I just don't think the games should have such huge consequences within the fluff that the outcome of a game (a chapter master, primarch or whatever being turned to a little puddle of goo) could be so unthinkable within the fluff.

Along the same vein with this whole "Codex: Eye of Terror" thing, I like the basic idea. I think the development of fluff and armies for the Eye of Terror, its surround garrisons, and the Cadian Gate (especially armies, as there is already some decent fluff, just not quite enough filling out of it) is long overdue. I've always found the whole outpost garrison thing to be really cool. Have any of you ever been to a nuclear weapons silo? I always imagined an Eye of Terror outpost to be somewhat similar in the feel. You're there in case something happens. You know that if it happens, all you hold dear is probably dead, even though it probably won't happen, and you just sit there, in your lonely outpost, watching for the blip or call that could mean the end of existence as you know it...not so cool for real life but awsome for 40k! On the other hand, I'm not too crazy about the idea of having some sort of campaign that would decide who controls, say, the Cadian Gate. It's just too major a change in the fluff. On the other hand if it is just the very beginnings of teh 13th crusade, say, some probing actions and so forth but no battle for Cadia or anything like that, that would be cool.

Well, my subscription ran out with WD277 and I'm not sure it's worth the cost for me now :(, so I guess I'll just have to watch the web to see how this plays out...

Indeed, Sanguinius wasn't exactly top-fit, and still managed to break it's back. I'd like to see any non-primarch try that!
LRSeries, I totally agree with you on the fluff vs games thing. I will never field a special character, just because it's so stupid when he dies.

Horus was cloned before the Heresy and Abaddon is reported to be that cloned son. His body was taken to the Eye of Terror by the Sons of Horus after the Heresy, and was after time stolen by the Emporers Children working for the Primogenitor (spelling?). They were going to clone his body. This was at the time Abaddon gained control of the Sons of Horus and renamed them the Black Legion, and to further destroy their connections with Horus (who Abaddon thought was unworthy and a failure) he led an attck on the plce were the Warmaster's body was being kept and destroyed it.

Thankyou for your time.

some one mentioned stats for primarchs being in rogue trader... never. as for them now.. hope not but hey if necrons can have gods....

one thing i have to say first is the Lion is gone. he died in the rebellion on caliban and his body was taken in by the warp storm, he's as dead as sanguinius so thats another primarch the imperials can't field.
has anyone here read the index astartes article called 'the cursed founding'. it talks about new marines being made and that they are better in every way to the normal space marines, also they seem to mutate easily and the base were they were being made was taken over by fabius bile and he took them away. so now that means chaos has got probably several legions of super space marines all ready for an attack on the imperium. things seem to keep getting worse and worse for the imperium. and yes horus was cloned several times over. if any one knows about the eldar fluff it says that their pheonix lords will die in the final battle against chaos and that they will finally destroy the fallen phoenix(dark eldar phoenix lord). seems alot of stuff may be happening in this campaign.

I want them to resurrect Konrad Curze (Night Lords Primarch). Finally we will get the respect we deserve. Organised terror shall reign over the imperium of man once more Bwahahahahaha!

Sorry for that.
Hmmm, Primarchs returning? i think belongs on the shelf with the Emperor awakening. Maybe, but it creates a massive story oblegation (spelling?).

I think Chaos primarchs could whoop the goody primarchs any day. (hehe) :)

Have any of you ever been to a nuclear weapons silo?
My dad used to be one of the ppl that launched them, i used to go there all the time

special characters look so dumb wen dey r hit by bolter fire and fail 2+ save s like 5 times and die.

If they brought back the primarchs and used them in battle, and if they made primarch models, dey coudln't make them invincible and they would end up dying sooner or later, which would destory the sense of super powerful primarchs. Also, if they made the eot campaign sum big huge story where the imperium and chaos duel it out with all the primarchs and the emperor and all the chaos gods fighting, how would games workshop continue to sell more and more armies, units, and things like that? if we found a conclusion to the main battle: chaos vs good, then a lot of the great fluff in warhammer 40k would die down.

Not at all.

There was a massive battle with all primarchs and the emperor Vs. the forces of chaos and the game has only gotten better since then.

YOU KNOW THIS IS NOT REALLY A BAD TOPIC. BUT IF YOU WANT MY OINION ABOUT THE MATTER........... I DONT THINK THAT THE PRIMACHS WILL RETURN AT ALL BECAUSE ANOTHER HORUS COULD HAPPEN

I personally think that they will come out with the primarch modles again. If you read some of the fluff that has ever been made it is supposed to be that the 13th crusade that we are in now is going to spark the rebirth of all the primarchs. And when the 14th crusade comes around they will be ready to be able to be released and play with on the battle field, but they are not going to be as good because they are mearly reborns of the origional primarchs.

They will not bring back the primachs they are too powerful. Apart from chaos and spacemarines who would have acces to such powerful charactors?? It would make the game too one sided.


Keep the primarchs out of the game.

Originally posted by Carcaroth@May 2 2003, 06:35
if any one knows about the eldar fluff it says that their pheonix lords will die in the final battle against chaos and that they will finally destroy the fallen phoenix(dark eldar phoenix lord). seems alot of stuff may be happening in this campaign.
Doesn't that mean that lord of the incubi, who was the old striking scorpians exarch? If anyone can fill me in on this, i'd appreciate it though they did have it in a Q&A section of WD and they left the question open by saying that they wern't telling. Is htis an admission or a red herring?

yeah the grand master uber incubi is the old striking scorpions exarch, why else would incubi & scorpions be so similar?

Ya the old scorpion phoenix lord is the lord incubi. The eldar are all walking a tight rope.. slip and your a darkeldar slip again and your chaos food.... mmmm slanesh.... born of the eldar decadence.. mmm god eater.... the eldar use an avatar of the chos gods still... khain (SP?) is an aspect of both khorn and slannesh they fought over him broke him on peices and lost all controll over him let the galexy burn long live chaos!! er wait i play eldar..

I have never been into the feresy fluff but in the SM or rule book or somthing it mintions a 21 founding now i think im a good counter and that at the back of the SM codex i only count 18 and 2 missing which equils 20 not 21 which means eather 1 primarch wasnt founf or there were more made. and also what are the 2 chapters that are all reacords lost in the list?

The 21st founding is the 21st time new apce marine chapters have been sanctioned by the high lords of Terra. The 20 chapters, 18+ 2 lost were first founding chapters where all subsiquient gene seed has been drawn from. The 1st founding was in the 31st milennia and the 21st founding was later.

Hope this clears up the confusion

i see

Uh... most of the Primarchs are dead. To whoever said Sanguinius was in stasis healing, that was Guilliman. A bunch of Chaos Primarchs are now Daemon Princes- but of the original 18 and their fates are as follows-
Roboute Guilliman is dead and in stasis (Ultramarines)
Rogal Dorn is dead and in amber (Imperial Fists)
Sanguinius is dead (Blood Angels)
Lion El'Jonson has vanished, and is presumed dead (Dark Angels)
Leman Russ has vanished (Space Wolves)
Ferrus Manus is dead, as far as I know (Iron Hands)
Corax vanished into the Warp (Raven Guard)
Vulkan is dead (Salamanders)
Jaghatai Khan is, I think, dead (White Scars)
Alpharius is... honestly, I have no idea (Alpha Legion)
Lorgar is... probably dead (Word Bearers)
Fulgrim is a Daemon Prince (Emperor's Children)
Horus is dead (Luna Wolves, Sons of Horus, Black Legion)
Angron is a Daemon Prince (World Eaters)
Pertarubo is, I think, a Daemon Prince (Iron Warriors)
Magnus the Red is a Daemon Prince (Thousand Sons)
Mortarion is a Daemon Prince (Death Guard)
Aaaaaaaaaand...
Konrad Curze is dead (Night Lords)

Kind of late reply don't you think? Anyway...
Lion El'Jonson is sleeping in the Rock.
Jaghatai Khan is lost (chased some DE into the webway).
Alpharius is dead.
Lorgar is a Daemon Prince.
Fulgrim... I've no idea, where does it say he's a DP?
And Perturabo is most certainly a Daemon Prince as well.

I seem to have heard somewhere... don't know where... that the twenty primarchs are supposed to return at some point, probably when the emperor awakens, and the primarchs and legions who rebelled will be cleansed and whatnot. This will happen either to fight the final battle against chaos (unlikely IMHO) or to fight the Necrons when they begin the full-scale enslavement of the galaxy.

anyway, even if they come back, they would costa thousand points plus...

ive read most of your posts on the subject, and know the majority of the fluf for 40k (being ex GW you had to) Russ did say that he would return at the wulfen time, there are some who say that guilliman's wound is healing and we know that chaos primarchs do still exist in the EOT however if you read the new space wolf novel it actually says that the end time is approaching, but one person who a few of you have mentioned returning is the emporer this can NEVER happen, as how would anyone get anywhere! without the light of the astronomican to guide them, the ships of the imperium would be reduced to traveling through normal space.

on the rules for them i agree that they would be costly but not as expensive as everyone seems to think they'd probably be about 2-300 pts

as for stat lines theyd be on par with the eldar avatar, and the ct'an gods, hard yet not impossible to kill after all some of them DID DIE in the first place!. and have if any of you tried to assault these guys you will know just how hard they are.

point to note though in the inquisitor series of books they talk about the "sons of the emporer" who are still alive long after daddy has effectivly bit the can, when and if these guys are found who better to lead the imperiums armies that the sons of the guy who founded it. along with the primarchs of the SM chapters

as for the other armies of the 40k universe there is still enough of a gap in the backgrounds for there to be major charicters to be released, after all although the tyranids have a hive mind simillar to bees, and wasps you still find a queen directing it!, the same goes for the tau their erethrals must have a single leader,
the imp guard have their beati's (one of which HAS already returned (saint sabbat) in the gaunt's ghosts novel sabbat martyr) the orks could finally have a warboss who unites their race (he'd have to be pretty hard) so all of these oppertunities are still there.

Just remember lads Gw will cannot equip ANY army with that all powerfull charicter without balancing him out within the othe races of the 41st millenium

I'd like to see the Primarchs return as well.. While I don't know enough to bugger on about stat lines and stuff, after what I've read on the forums, having them equal to a C'tan would seem about right.. Although some rules, like having them available only in a 2000pt+ Army or something like that would make sense as well.

Talking about other characters, I'd like to see the Brain Boyz return.. Maybe a snotling could find a crop of the stuff they need to generate their massive brain power that has regrown, and a new generation of Brain Boyz/Old Ones return to unite the Orks against the abominations that the raced they created have become, eg, Humans, Eldar..

well couldent they say that the primarchs that are dead get reborn by a freak accident while recruting new marines
like the gene seed has an odd efect on some one and a dead primarchs pesonality gets transferred into them and over time it becomes more promenant?

for eg a white scar scout when haveing his scar sealed by the holy flame

instead of healing the wound it flies inside of it and tada heis back from the grave
with a keg of holy naplam in his cheast

Could be, like a second coming of the primrachs. Sounds cool...

In order now...


1: Lion El'Jonson: Possible living, deep within the Rock.
2: Never recovered, conjecture states the possibility of Sigmar.
3: Fulgrim: Daemon Prince of Slaanesh.
4: Pertúrabo: Daemon Prince.
5: Jaghatai Khan: Lost in the webway after fighting Dark Eldar.
6: Leman Russ: Missing, presumed fed.
7: Rogal Dorn: Dead, good riddance.
8: Konrad Kurze: Dead.
9: Sanguinius: He's Dead, Jim.
10: Ferrus Manus: Killed on Istvaan V.
11: Never recovered, although as eleven is the sacred number of Malal...
12: Angron: Daemon Prince of Khorne, currently banished.
13: Papa Smurf: Died in single combat with Fulgrim, possibly healing.
14: Mortarion: Daemon prince of Nurgle.
15: Magnus the Red: Daemon Prince of Tzeentch.
16: Horus: Dead.
17: Lorgar: Daemon Prince.
18: Vulkan: Unknown
19: Corax: Missing.
20: Alpharius: Dead.

Taken from dakka dakka, it seems a bit far out, so take it with a
grain of salt.


Well it seems that there is going to be some interesting times ahead
for the Ultramarines. See, there is this certain Games Developer here
in Oz at the moment, and i was chatting to him. Seems they have a
prophecy called the "apocrypha of scarus". It deals with a Renegade
Ultramaines leader who returns to "his home". Only bit i do remember
verbatim is as follows..."And lo, the Prodigal Son shal stand on the
sands of his home. And his Father shall rise up and scourge the
darkenss from him."
So if its a regular Ultramarine that comes home, does that make
the "Father" Roubutte Gulliman??? And if your in any doubt, just
think what just happened on Cadia...
Also, this is in the Whichhunters book, cause it deals with Oracles,
Prophets etc...
intesting time we game in eh fellahs??

even if the primarches do come back, they wont be released as models as of complaints like too strong too weak etc they are meant to be super super uber uber ultra space marines

Technically, Roboute Guilliman isn't dead, he's in stasis. That stuff about him healing must be BS though (see aforementioned frase, 'stasis' being the key word).

Originally posted by BorninDarkness@Nov 1 2003, 22:46
Technically, Roboute Guilliman isn't dead, he's in stasis. That stuff about him healing must be BS though (see aforementioned frase, 'stasis' being the key word).
Actually isn’t that sagunarius? (you honestly expect me to spell THAT correctly?)

Roboute Guilliman is mortally wounded and in stasis and they are trying to find away to heal him. about Sanguinius im not sure, never heard anything about him being in stasis and i think it is unlikely as Horus tore his heart and so killed him before he could be put into stasis.

sagunarius?? lol.

Sanguinius is very much dead. However, the blood angels banner that was used to cover the body of Sanguinius is in stasis, as it is slowly degrading, and only a tiny scrap of it remains. I don't know what heppened to Sanguinius' body. i presume it's buried somewhere.

i thought J khan was killed and when he died he blew up with holy flames flying every where killing all the daemons on a planet somewhere and bit of the fire got saved and is now the holy flame

Hehe, Sanguinius is about as dead as they get.

Arklite: what brought you to that story??

i found a codex for white scarson the net cant remember where but according to it the white scarshelped the tech preists of mars and got the first machien lords an upgrade of the tec marine i guess

:blink: I've never read anything about White Scars having anythign special to do with the Adeptus Mechanicus. You sure you're not mixing them up with Iron Hands?

eh maybe but it does say that i get dreadnaughts with jump packs ooh shiny

...
Looks like someone was a bit too creative with writing a home-grown codex...
Btw the only official WS thing is an Index Astartes article, not a codex.

Roboute Guilliman is in stasis and motally wounded, whoever said that got it right. However, they are not looknig for a way to heal him- he seems to be slowly healing himself. Of course, as BiD says, he's not supposed to be able to do that- he's in stasis. So people make pilgrimages every year to where he's stasified, hoping to see the miracle for themselves.

Okay here is the crunch and for all you aspiring novellists out there a potential prospect for a new book or article.

The Ecclesiarchy of the Imperium is and has been established as a cult worshipping the divinity of the Emperor.

The conflict between the Priesthood and the Adeptus Astartes is documented in that the priests worship the Emperor as a God whlst the marines venerate him as a man, infact a relative of sorts.

The Eccliesiarchy therefore are tormented with a bipolar view of the Marines. The marines are obviously the chosen of the empire, holy warriors, pious and devout and dedicated to the defence of the Imperium and will plainly kick ten bells out of anyone who says otherwise. However Marines also view the 'diety' that the Emperor is to the vast majority of the Imperium not as a God but as a sort of distant grandfather figure - obviously a heretical belief. So there is a kind of status quo really isn't there (obviously so as there is nothing stating otherwise) The priest don't like the way the marines see things but in the end they see the same sort of things as they do so that is okay.


What on the other hand would happen if one of the founding fathers of the marine legions returned? What sort of response would there be? The Marine Chapters of which the primarch was a founder would of course rally around the personality as kinsmen and would venerate him as a potent and moreover available 'divinity'.

Would the Adeptus Terra stand for that assuming the milennia of dormancy from the emperor and the supremacy they have enjoyed therein?

I suspect a bit of conflict may ensue.

How could a priesthood which talks in terms of " and the God - Emperor spake thusly 'Fellows! We have smitten the foemen and have borne the jubilation of our peers and our lessers for verily there is none greater in this universe!'"

To which the rejuvenated Primarch would reply " oh yeah I remember that gig, Alf - the Emperor that is - had been up all night drinking lager and VBLs and had gone off with a load of groupies around 2, shortly after that Lion set off to his room with some random redhead. Konrad was sat at the bar tearing up beermats and muttering about doom, wondering whether his nickname was cool or not and saying about how he was going bald, Leman was still drinking and singing and I remember saying 'you will have a bad head in the morning' but he just called me a girly shirt-lifting tosser and so I left with a nice blonde who had been eyeing up my pauldrons all night - so much for a shirt lifter eh? I can tell you now who woke up alone in a pool of vomit on his bathroom floor in the morning - he had ginger pigtails and wasn't me I can tell you!"



<Incidentally I wrote more just then but I am drunk at the moment and I inadvertently made insults to most of the nations on Earth and decided I could do without flaming so cut it out>

Another thing to think about is that in the Daemonhunters codex, it is rumoured that the Grey Knight Gene seed is from the Emperor, making him their Primach.
This suggests that the emperor might return too along with the primachs, if they do return? BTW I am not in favour of this or the return of the primachs, I am purely speculating.

The emperor could return. GW's been setting that stuff up for years, with Sensei and Illiminati and star child and all that fluffly stuff. If you haven't been already head over to http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/appendix.shtml
it's like a giant Rogue Trader/Slaves to Darkness era fluff library. That being said it would be such a huge deal, bringing back the big guy and all, that I doubt they'd undertake it anytime soon. Fielding Illuminati-Inquisitors, however, does seem rather badass.

Also, the way i see it, every blood angel going through the black rage relives sanguinus's last moments right? Are you telling me that if GW was to bring back all the Primachs they wouldn't make some Mestiphon-esque cat go through the red thrist and come out the other side as Sanguinus? Nope, too crazy, but Orks are Fungus.

Problem with the Emperor 'coming back'. The Emperor's current major use is as a lighthouse. When he was alive this wasn't necessary as the Warp wasn't as moiled as it became later so warp travel was all still nice.

If he came back then the lighthouse I would assume would then move around. useful if you want to find the location of the lighthouse but no good if you want to go anywhere else. I had this problem once on my boat, it was foggy and a major landfall buoy with a RACON attached broke adrift and was randomly floating around the North Sea. If I was only navigating by that single radar signal I would have ended up God alone knows where, luckily I kind of noticed that the course needed to steer for that mark was nowhere near the course I should be on - a compass is more reliable for navigation than a radar so I used that but there is no magnetism in space innit?

Arrrr.

Maybe if they made some sort of fluff saying that the Emperor came back, shoved it up Abaddon and 'closed' the Eye of Terror then it might all make some sort of sense and Imperium-wide commerce might be able to continue. Problem is Chaos would then become a minority faction with no foothold in the gaming area so you would immediately alienate all the money spending chaos players out there so I dunno.

I have a headache now so I will just sit back and see what they decide to do.

It does give one a headache- but since the Emperor's return would stir up the game so much, and completely realign the factiuons, GW ain't gonna do it. Period.

well if the emperor comes back he's supposed to become the star child and effectively another warp entity. so they'd probably make some crap up that the emperor can guide the imperium's ships through the warp. anyways i dont think they'll be bringing the emperor or the primarchs back at all or for a very very long time as it will be at the end of 40k. then we can all play 50k.

Like I said several times before: that fluff, too, has been dropped.

Archon, when you said that the models have never been released before, actually they have, those rules in rogue trader were there because the models existed, I have the Leman Russ model that was released 'back in the day' as I have been told.

This forum should end, as some of the bs fluff here is just painful, half of the aforementioned fluff is a load of ...... anyway, speculations are fine, but posting info that is complete bs is just annoying.

well... this is a rumors topic, and all the "bs" is just rather razzed up rumors... and its nice to know (or to think to know) whats gonna happen. Personally i dont think the Primaches will return, because the Eldar will raze, burn and assimilate the Earth !!!! :rolleyes:

JEEZE! what is it with u guyz and wanting the primarchs back? if they did come back, what would it do, huh? make 40k a quasi-religious war of crusades and other stuff i caqnt stand! Before Gw even considers briging the emperor back, they would need to tear apart their entire story of 40k, ruin it for those of us who like the game being mankind fighting to survive, and all of a sudden, good players would be mauled to death bhy noobs who bought every primarch model and the emperor. CAN YOU HONESTLY TELL ME THAT YOU WANT THAT?

I agree with the bit about the kiddies always wanting to bring a primarch to every battle they fight in and the concept therefore undesirable but am a bit confused about your analysis of how the game background is at the moment. 40k for the Imperial player revolves almost entirely around religious concepts and crusades, it is all pervading. Space Marine chapters are supposed to be warrior monks in the vein of the Templar Knights in Medieval Europe - an utterly religious organisation, The Imperial Guard goes into battle alongside fighting priests, there are militant Nuns, the list goes on. Indeed the stoyline evolves around mankind's 'fight for survival' in actual fact however tenuous it may be Mankind is in control of most things in the gaming area - it IS a case of constant crusades to purge themselves of all remaining threats countered by the odd notable setback and a few immoveable objects. Everywhere you look there are little boxes laying out the fluff of the game in terms of catechisms and litanies and religious doctrines.

Basically the game revolves around alternate religiosity to a frighteningly high degree in association with fascist governance. The Quasi-religion is the rasion d'etre of the game at the moment simple as that.

The Primarchs and the Emperor probably won't come back and shouldn't, it would be like Jesus and the Twelve Disciples returning to lead the armies of the Holy Roman Empire in the middle ages - didn't happen but that doesn't mean that the Holy Roman Empire wasn't a religion driven organisation to a huge extent...

That's not stopping you playing 40k as different game to everyone else though or even just ignoring the majority of people who enjoy the real storyline behind the game.

That is all true from the imperial perspective and I doubt anyone is denying that if they are they need to reread the fluff.

but if you read all the books every army has the ability to take over the entire galaxy or destroy it

from the orcs which it mentions outnumber like every other army like 100 to one but they dont have any organization but the day they get a grand waaaghh!! going they will steam roll everyone, and then their the eldar that have super weapons they could employ to eradicate everyone....the list goes on.

and my perspective presently is along the vein that the imperiums religious szeal is about to be hit for a huge blow when the dragon wakes up and half the imperium is called heretics for worshiping him as their machine god and its gonna be one bloody huge mess,

as for primarchs? those are gw LAST DITCH EFFORT when the company may start going belly up to any competition such as rackham's games which have far better models already.

Rackham? Who?

If they are any good then they will get bought out, if it is just the designers that are good then they will get bought instead.

I just looked at their webby, not bad, kind of like how GW was 20 years ago but GW didn't have a GW to compete with then. I have a lot of sympathy with that sort of small manufacturer and I like the kind of random meandering ethos they take to figure design, it is very creative and gives good figures but those figures are often standalones (the best ones) and lacking a solid base to build around like WH the whole thing just flares brightly then fades away when people realise they aren't making that much money.

The thing is, the amount of money in GW at the moment is ridiculous, their shares are up over 200% in the last year in a bear market and between the LotR franchise and 40k profits have gone mad. They are a multinational company and although anecdotally David has killed Goliath in the past, this is a different case what with the copyright related unbreakable monopolies involved.

Not going belly up any time soon that much is certain.

I do like the idea of this civil war involving the Adeptus Mechanicus to be honest (not for the reasons related to the Necrons as I think they are the second most disjointed, misconceived and out of place race in the game behind the Tau) the fluff says there was a war between Mars and Earth previously which ended in a losing stalemate for Mars. I am making an army of Techpriests and servitors and cybernetically enchanced guardsmen with no brains in preparation.

Finishing up the 40k story would be interesting. I would like it if only in fluff and books. Bringing out the Primarchs as Collector's pieces would be nice.

Some battle scene it'd be though. Imagine all the original Legions led by their Primarchs and the Emperor in his Golden Armor against the combined might of Chaos! Use about 20,000 troops! :D

Bob

OK, the following are true,cos i did my homework.

Lion El'Jonson (AWOL)
Angron- Daemon Prince
Night Haunter - DEAD (assasinated)
Mortarion - Daemon Prince
Perturabo - Daemon Prince
Fulgrim - Daemon Prince
Alpharius - DEAD (killed by Robute Guilliman, and the ultramrines still lost)
Jaghati Khan- (AWOL)
Ferrus Manus - Dead
Robute Gulliman - Dead in stasis
Legion of the Damned primarch(?) - DEAD
Lorgar - Daemon Prince
Rogal Dorn - Dead in Stasis
Magnus The Red - Daemon Prince
Horus - DEAD
Sanguinius - DEAD
Raven Guard Primarch - AWOL
Leman Russ AWOL
Vulkan - Dead
Cypher (Fallen Angels) - Alive
Abbadon (Warp Ghosts)

The last two were added because they are the primarchs of the two missing legions, but were already tainted by Chaos when found, and the legion of the Damned were the 21st Founding

if they did return would it OLNY be the sm ones or all of them and if u on which one could u plz list them ?

Originally posted by Daemon Prince Darknuss@Nov 18 2003, 14:39
Cypher (Fallen Angels) - Alive
Abbadon (Warp Ghosts)

um, they aren't primarchs......


What the hell.

Uhhhh... no. Cypher and Abaddon were NOT Primarchs. Cypher was a Dark Angel, and Abaddon was a Black Legion marine. Not Primarchs at all.

And not only is Cypher not a Primarch, he is also not even the main protagonist of the Fallen Angels. Luther was Lion El'Jonson's second in command and leader of the renegade Dark Angels, its just that he went crackers and is locked up in the rock whilst Cypher who was previously an unknown and therefore obviously not a particularly important person in the grand scheme of things, got away with it...

I've read somewhere that 24 Primarch genomes were created and the Emperor only found 20, the others being too badly damaged or dead.

It states in the spacewolf book by william king, that the emporer sent Russ on a secret mission, deep into the eye of terror to get the fruit of life, as the fruit could bring the emporer back to when he was in his prime :)
so if Russ did comeback, we could be looking at the emporer being reborn...
So thats why i doubt they will bring the primarchs back

possibly they may bring rules, stat lines for the primarchs in a year or so so people can replay the horus heresey, but for fluff wise bringing them back, it would be kinda bad as then every SM player would wanna use 1 :(

Just for curiosity about replaying HH. I always analysed things that happened in the 'past' of GW are consigned to history in the game fluff.

Eye of Terror campaign is a given fact and finalised now so Cadia is besieged at the moment. The Gothic War happened when BFG was released a couple of years ago and that translates to 800 years ago in game now - done and dusted. The battles for Armageddon were summer store campaigns a few years ago and are now likewise history with potential for rejuvenation.

Horus Heresy was a helluva long time ago when Adeptus Titanicus and 'Space Marine' was first released (erm '89 or '90 was it?) That was the last time I really remember GW plugging battles in the HH with renegade marines and guardsmen, traitor titan legions etc..

I personally don't think they will release any fluff to run alongside 40k to represent the HH - GW really likes to allude to bygone eras where everything was bigger better stronger and shinier. That way they can say "yes these battles are epic but back in the day when blah blah blah bestrode like a colossus blah blah invincible band of brothers blahdy blah as countless as the stars in the heavens blah burp last hope for the salvation of blah rhubarb".

You see it in the fluff for the Eldar, the Necrons/C'tan and the Imperium - they love that gear. Lets face it They will not bring rules for pre fall Eldar as it would be largely pointless - who would they fight against? C'tan - no too powerful if the tinheads are to be believed and would just make the game basically over.

Maybe a parallel game along the lines of AT or SM or even 40k with different rules would cover 40k historically - GW could even release a new range of minis to deal with it and they would be so pleased with that I think...

Another reason wy they would never bring back any of that stuff was because everyone was a lot stronger and the imperium was more technologically advanced. The point system would be completly out of whack and so would the scale system. All guns would end up firing 72"

I would want to see a War in Heaven spinoff game. Or at least a rule subset. They'd have to move the C'tan to Epic Scale, as at full strength in the WH40k world, they'd translate to about 10,000,000 etc. points. No, screw that. Having a stat limit at 10 doesn't do the C'tan justice- they kill with a thought, crack worlds open like eggs, and spill the blood of millions with a gesture.

Oo.oo hoo hoo hoo *shivers at the thought of his primarch* Wow Sigusmund the ultimate sword master *drools*

Deceiver has the point of the game though, Sigismund is the ultimate swordsmaster but what good is that if no-one gets within swords reach of him?

There has to be some sort of limiting factor, maybe a game where the Emperor has returned and the resulting Psyonic shockwave and dampening effect stops a lot of these C'tan potentates dead in their tracks, leaving them as potent psykers or less depending on how close they are to the font of power (the Emperor). This could maybe be set well in the future where the Emperor is revived as a living being and the Primarchs are returned to their full glory and ensconced as High lords of Terra. The Tau and Eldar and so forth are subsumed as dominions (or confederates depending on the hemisphere of your current political allegiances) of Earth and deemed allies (the Emperor being sensible and less dogmatic than his priesthood)

Then the true battle begins, it turns out that the empyrean, the very stuff of the warp is the tru nature of the universe and that Chaos is it's true raison d'etre. The Universe of reality is just a bubble of flatulence on the surface of the globe of influence of chaos - a great irritant to the chaos powers to be sure but nothing more. This then becomes a battle royal and a crusade of glorious conquest wherein humanity and its affiliates push back the night to become true Gods and masters of all they survey.

Basically I hate being an underdog, it is shite. I personally would like to think that Humans from Earth are not a seeded race from a different culture, we are the universe's own creations and are, as far as everything is to come 'the old ones'.

I have lost my track now damnit!

The Primarchs are uber cool guy. They are the founders of the Space Marine Legions. I think Leman Russ would be the coolest, but I'm biased being all SWolvish and all. Still Russ is like so cool he even has a tank named after him.

It states in the spacewolf book by william king, that the emporer sent Russ on a secret mission, deep into the eye of terror to get the fruit of life, as the fruit could bring the emporer back to when he was in his prime.

Could that have been a possible turn out from the eye if good had one.

Also some where i heard that abbadon was the son or clone of Horus. If thats true wouldnt that make him a primarch as well or a 2nd gen primarch or something.

Humans are not a seeded race, despite what people claim. The Necron codex, perhaps the best source for information 60 million years before the 41st millenium, only says that humans were just monkeys during the War in Heaven. I do not think that it ever says they were genetically made by the Old Ones. Eldar and Orks? I am pretty sure they are but humans just evolved into what they were without interference.

Originally posted by The-Emporers-Champion@Dec 12 2003, 12:50
Oo.oo hoo hoo hoo *shivers at the thought of his primarch* Wow Sigusmund the ultimate sword master *drools*
Uh, Sorry to break it to you, but Sigismund wasn't a Primarch..

He was a member of the Iron Fists, and later became the first Chapter Master of the Black Templars. So your Primarch is Rogal Dorn.

Originally posted by Bawdymonkey@Dec 14 2003, 03:35
Humans are not a seeded race, despite what people claim. The Necron codex, perhaps the best source for information 60 million years before the 41st millenium, only says that humans were just monkeys during the War in Heaven. I do not think that it ever says they were genetically made by the Old Ones. Eldar and Orks? I am pretty sure they are but humans just evolved into what they were without interference.
You may want to note that in every reference that involves the Emperor and the Space Marines/Primarchs that it says they are made from the geneseed. Primarchs are made from the Geneseed of the Emperor and Space Marines are made from the Primarch's Geneseed. Since the process is imperfect the Primarch's are all flawed in a small way and the Space Marines have geneseed that is flawed in a further way.

Is there any truthin Abbadon being the clone or son of Horus. Like i said before wouldnt he be a primarch also then.

sounds interesting.............what does it mean when stasis and wounds are said to be healing????? If dead then how>???
hhow did the primarches die in the first place ????
i don't really know but it would sound interesting to hear about them>>>>>

Stasis and healing wounds are paradoxal, nothing can change in stasis.

And one question mark gets the point across quite sufficiently, no need for "?????" after each sentence.

Guilleman's wounds healing may or may not be occuring. It is simply a legend. Technically it shouldn't, but if it was, it would be a miracle.

sigh..... the reason that cypher and abbadon were "fired"from their posts as primarchs, was largely due to the fact that chaos had already tainted them, and being psychic, the emperor had a pretty good idea of what would happen. So the gene seed retained, but the troops that they had grown up alongside of were left behind. This is why Abbadon is so powerful. He is only RUMOURED to be a clone of horus. Cypher is impossible to capture, largely due to the fact that he had been brought up on a world of theivery and stealth, and mastered this to an artform. Sigmar.....thats fantasy warhammer isnt it?

But there is the custodian guard, who are the personal legion of the emperor. They are kitted out in gold, and look alot like the high elves.

If the primarchs did return, you would probably see this in the codex:

Lorgar WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
10 10 10 7 5 9 10 2+/2+

A Word Bearers army of 4500 points or more may be led by Lorgar. If you do, then he counts as two Hq choices on the force organization chart.

Bummer. Why did my primarch have to die....especilly against Robute Guilliman


Brethren of the Hydra will ahve their vengence

In first addition could u play with primarchs and the emperor or no. Just wondering. But is Abbadon a clone or son of Horus?

Abbadon was nothing more than the captain of the first cohort of the Luna Wolves legion of Marines who were commanded by Horus.

He simply took over the Legion after Horus went into 'spectator mode'. As such he is just a second in command that took charge after his commander was killed and nothing more.
The whole 'son or used cloned materials' of Horus is noted as being merely speculation - you could imagine it as being like a contemporary military leader claiming descent from Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar - it adds to the mystique and rubber stamps his authority and whilst it may or may not be true it just makes for a good story.

He is so powerful simply because he is the current most likely contender for supreme grand overlord of the Chaos Space Marines and affliated forces.

Cypher is just a former Dark Angel who turned to the bad during the Heresy. He is nothing special saving in that he has evaded capture better than all the other Fallen Angels. Its important to note that he wasn't ever the leader or even anyone noteworthy in the Dark Angels as far as fluff relates, the Leader of the Fallen Angels was Luther - Lion El'Jonson's Second in command. Luther didn't even warrant a mention until he featured as a special character in a scenario about 2 years ago.

cypher is only noteworthy because he supposedly carries the lion blade, lion el'johnson's swords. the dark angels want it back, therefore people know about cypher.

Brethren of the Hydra? Are you referring to the ALpha Legion or the now defunct meta-secret coven within the Ordos Malleus?

Azriel, that........wow......you are an excellent writer. You been told this a few posts back but so what. It was brilliant how you could make it a very VERY clear picture in my mind on what was happening. Great job man :w

The primarchs will come back because..well..they're supposed to..I mean most chapters are simply fighting to just stay alive untill thier primarch or the empoere returns..so not bringing them back would make a lot of SM fluff pretty hollow

"Have faith brothers..our Primarch shall re...oh..what? He's not comming back? Well @#$%...screw it I'm going home..."


Of course Sanguinius an some others will be missing from this little reunion (though it pains me to admit it) because even for a Primarch it's pretty hard to recover from a severed spine and all that other stuff Horus did to 'im (made him his biotch :ph34r: )

And having Perturabo slit your throat with a daemonically poisoned blade/talon isn't hard to recover from? The real reason Sanguinus and Night Haunter won't be back is that it is the manner of their deaths that give the characters their poignancy and to have them revived/resurrected cheapens what they were.

Yeah well there's a lot of Primarchs that SHOULDN'T come back in order to avoid overwhelming cheesyness..but knowing GW and thier appearent love of cheese..they probably will.. <_<

how about bring the primarches back but in an offshoot game: fighting in the time of the great crusade - then those who want them can play that without having to buy whole new armies and those who dont want them can continue without them - opening out the chance to have 2 campagings a year - present ones and one as ap art of the great crusade as there is plenty of oppertunity for this due to the length of the crusade.

oppinions?

I think they are doing something like called the Horus Heresy campaign. Its a mini one but I think its coming out

I have a feeling you are right, because Forge World has been releasing Horus Heresy era vehicles... The MKIV Dreadnought and the MK2B Land Raider for instance (says preheresy, but it would have been in service during the Horus Heresy I imagine)

i wonder if horus will be returning because it says in the codex that abaddon carries horus's body back to the eye of terror??

I want Sangnious! It'd be tight like buttcheeks. ^_^ oooooo so many possiblities.

I have heard from a very slightly may be able to rely on source that, well, we all know guilliman had his throught slit. It is healing ya. Well, he gets out and goes in search of something. On his own. Then, logan gets wacked by chaos, ragnar is the obvious choice, and it is russ who elects him leader. Russ carries on with his search for The Lion, and the klion and himself kick chaos ass for a bit. Then they go off and try and find a way to wake the emperor up.

Remember, this person we very slightly may be able to rely on , so trust me.........and him

Riiiiiiite, well id be happy if any one came back, Corax just dissapeared into the Eye so hed be a sensible choice to return, and the Lion well no 1 knows, Dorn, no way unless he goes on an idle hands style spree caus thats all thats left, Robute,ummmm stasis??? heal??? no. Hummm, sanguinus, i actualy think he could recoup. So we never know, itd be fantastic if any of them came back.

Sanguinius is already back. He reincarnates himself as a sister of battle in one of the recent book releases. Yeah, this sister gets attacked by a flamer and it don't do anything. Yeah, then she starts wacking chaos and preaching about who she is.

The info I got of the mate was from the first addition rule books! Lion is on the rock aint he. Russ went looking for him. They may have been rivals, but when they couldn't find Lions body he went on a search. All the chaos ones can come back. Jaghatai JKhan chased chaos or dark eldar through a portal or something, so he can come back. Dorn is dead. Robute is in stasin, in the main fortress on macragge. Says so in white dwarf 256. Not sure about the others though.

Originally posted by Leonontes@Apr 13 2004, 11:04
the Lion well no 1 knows
The Lion's whereabouts are known to the Watchers in the Dark, The Emperor, and certain Greater Demons of Tzeentch. He has been in a catatonic sleep in an unreachable (unreachable to everyone but the Watchers I suppose, seeing as they brought him there) chamber inside the rock.

Robute,ummmm stasis??? heal??? no.
As it has been rehashed many times in discussion, Roboute Guilleman is in stasis with his throat slit in the fortress monastary on Macregge. There are tiny drops of blood spilling out frozen in stasis. The legend of the Ultramarine Primarch is that the wound is slowly healing. If this is true then it is a great miracle for it should be impossible in stasis.

I do not know what book you are talking about Joslin so I can't comment on the Sanguinus thing, but he as far as EVERYTHING else about Sanguinus, he is one of the Primarchs that is actually deader than a dornail and is not coming back.

Thats wor I mean, the only way he can come back is if he reincarnates someone. Ill get back to you with the name.

What ever happened to sagnuinius's body?

I assume it was brought back to Earth with the Emperor's body by Rogal Dorn

Ok. Thanks that cleared up some fuzzyness. I know that he might be dead, but it would still be cool to see him come back.

Originally posted by lipine joslin@Apr 13 2004, 11:16
Sanguinius is already back. He reincarnates himself as a sister of battle in one of the recent book releases. Yeah, this sister gets attacked by a flamer and it don't do anything. Yeah, then she starts wacking chaos and preaching about who she is.

ok id like to see that book as i find that highly offensive, why the hell would he come back as a battle sister? i find it hard to belive and i want proof befor i belive it.

I refuse to believe that Sagnuinis had a sex change while he was dead! :ph34r:

same here i find that an extream insult to my primarch! and why would he appear and preach to the sisters hed go back to the BA

I think i know who he's talking about though. I saw a picture of he. She either had wings or she was being carried around my a bunch of lil...things. I don't think she's the BA primarch reincarnated though.

Correct. Just because Sister celestine is/ just looks like an angel , that does not automatically qualify as Sanguinus reincarnated.

Exactly,

Lipline just becaus your fanatical about sisters dont mean you go sayin things bout my primarch!!!

Any one read the book warriors of ultramar,

There is a sister in that who is called the angel of something or other, oh she must be sanguinus!!!!!!

celestine aint sanguinus, no 1 knows nuffin bout her.

Celestine is Sanguinius? that is on of the dumbest things I've heard on this board so far? Why the hell would Sanguinius be reincarnated as a woman? that's just...it's so...you..gah..BURN THE HERETIC HE SPEAKS LIES!

thank you!!! and again why would he go to the sisters??? hell no hed go back to his chapter and end the curse!!!!!

BURN THE BLASPHEMER!!!!!!!!!! HE IS AN AFFRONT TO THE CHAPTER AND THE EMPEROR AND BURN THE SISTER FOR HER CLAIMS

WHAT ME A BLASPHEMER ON WHAT GROUNDS DO YOU MAKE THIS CLAIM!

The sister must be tainted she will be purged, and the blood angel will be purged for safty. (haha in typical GK fassion lol)

Let no man spread false lies about our beloved primarch, Sanguinius, who is the father of our chapter and who was the Angel of Death reincarnated! How about that for some 40k articulation (I just tossed in the AoD thing because I thought that sounded cool :P )

you be careful you know to much allready!!! and i collect my own BA sucsessors so i find that offensive as well, so i use my deamonhunterness to take it out on you haha!!!

Originally posted by BrotherAzriel@Apr 14 2004, 17:15
you be careful you know to much allready!!! and i collect my own BA sucsessors so i find that offensive as well, so i use my deamonhunterness to take it out on you haha!!!
who? me?

Guys, chill out, it was a tiny mistake. We all do it at least once and a while.

He defends the heretic..he is tainted as well..burn then..burn them all! Waaa!


ok..I'm done..sorry u_u

Sry my crazyness, but how would you feel if you found out that your dad (primarch) just had a sex change while he was gone and became part of another family (army).

ok just messin with the tainted ones lol,

thats a good way to put it, that puts it into perspective really well.

lol. I try my best to put my complex views in easy terms. lol

PS- I have a really simple mind.

I did not say saint celastine was sanguinius. Also I don;'t like sisters of battle. In the book, she is posssessed be sanquinius and she goes on a killing spree. Sanguinius himself has his own reasons for choosing her body. Who knows why. Oh, and will yall chill out having a go at me. Just telling you what I know. No need to flip and go flamin (not even listening to my opinions).

Childish.

And what book is this??? I still wont belive you untill i see it, tell me what book ill read it then if its true ill apologise and have a go at GW insted lol!

Yeah, sorry but I'm really defensive about my BA. You gotta show me proof before I'll believe you.

You're all so very dumb.

Of course Sanguinius can be reincarnated as a woman.
Why, I hear you cry!?

It's a fictional universe, and this would make a very interesting plot twist. It sounds quite cool, if it were true. And why not? After all, you're not frickin' Blood Angels yourselves. And you don't write the official fluff for GW. I happen to think it's a very cool idea.

The reason why the idea is being so violently attacked is because it is out of character. If one throws out character motives when writing the stories about the GW universe than it no longer becomes a compelling story.

for the love of......

"i find this highly offenseive"

what? you find someone talking about a fictious character highly offensive? its a hobby man, chill. and thats no reason to jump to conclusions that obviously have no grounds what so ever.


seriously guys, while it may be cool to discuss all this stuff, chill out, its only what some guys think up someplace in GW.

DUDE WE AR MESSING ABOUT!!!! CHRIST!!!!!

As bawdy monkey said the reason we are so pi##ed is caus its like saying that Aragorn just became king of the dwarfs and lead a an attack on mount doom with an army of rebel goblins.....its crap!!! its to unbeliveable.
i refuse to belive it untill i see the proof, the official proof, not something some1 types and says its from here.....prove it!!!

As i said, pretending to be offended and the heretic crap, ALL A BIT OF FUN!!!
y does every one take everything so serious all the time!

I suddenly feel as if this thread just got a load of cynacism.

it did, can we just get on with the topic now.....and lipine im still waiting for the title of this "book".

With outt rediculus un backed up notions

has any one Ever heard of the primarches returning, i know angron did in armagedon but a GK brother captin (Aurailn) sent him to the warp for 1000years.

just wonder who you think the last 2 legions were and what happened to their primarches?

could one have been the grey knights with the emperor as primarch
how bout the other?

i think yes to that, the emp is the GK primarch and i think the secont might be the Custodes also possibly with the emp as primarch

The Grey Knights were in the 666th Founding. As it is not mention in the Apocrypha of Skaros, it has been lost to time. We can only speculate that they were so abominable and hated that all records had to be destroyed.

I thought that the Grey Knights were the sole result of the second founding, after the Horus Heresy, to root out Daemons to make sure it never happened again? Could be wrong but I'm sure I read that somewhere reliable.

-GI

Originally posted by Bawdymonkey@Apr 19 2004, 12:37
The Grey Knights were in the 666th Founding. As it is not mention in the Apocrypha of Skaros, it has been lost to time. We can only speculate that they were so abominable and hated that all records had to be destroyed.
actualy they are chapter number 666 not 666th founding

its a rumour that the emp is the gk primarch and it says in the DH codex, that they were founded round the second foundng At the request of the emp himself.

Kool. Now that's got me wanting to play GK.

Sangiunius: He is dead, however rumours have been circling that the eldar high preists plan on resurrecting him, using their blood, just in time for the end of all things(they forsaw him doing a GREAT good).
Leman Russ: Missing, but in one white dwarf, the -=I=- stumbled upon a chaos temple, where his armour was found. They interrogated the cultests, and it was discovered that his retinue was killed, but they said he left, continuing fighting. I think he fell to the curse of the wulfen.
Roboute Guilliman: MORTALLY WOUNDED! Not dead. Was put in stasis to preserve him. It should be noted that he was wounded while fighting 3 daemon princes. After killing the first 2, fulgrim slashed his neck with a poison blade. Roboute still killed fulgrim.
Rogal Dorn: Shriveled up in a corner and died. Just kidding. He Ran his ship into Abbadon's Flag ship during the 1st black crusade, after he fell into a depression feeling that he had failed the emperor. After running his ship into the despoiler-class ship, he duked it out with abbadon. Abbadon is alive, Rogal dorn's skeletal ahnd was found on the deck. 'Nuff said.
Grey Knights: Gene-seed not confirmed to be from the emperor. That's the Adeptus Custodes, the emp's personal bodyguard. Their gene-seed was engineered(rumor swirling edited emp's seed). There are also rumors swirling that the empeor ordered the creation of the chapter from the throne with a vision.

ho ho sweet. So Sangiunius may come back after all, but how the heck are they going to resurrect him even with their blood?

cool all cool but

IT IS RUMORED THAT THE EMP IS THE GK PRIMARCH!!!! LOOK IN THE DH CODEX UNDER THE EXPLINATION OF WHAT GK ARE!!!!!!

sorry......

Sanguinus being revived by Eldar eeehy?? sounds ok to me,

imagin what russ would look like as a wolf!! HED BE HUGE!!

Originally posted by wulfen_icon@Apr 23 2004, 08:50
Sangiunius: He is dead, however rumours have been circling that the eldar high preists plan on resurrecting him, using their blood, just in time for the end of all things(they forsaw him doing a GREAT good).

Highly doubtful, I would be skeptical of your source for this information.

Hey don't ruin all hope for the BA fans man. It's a long shot, but hey it could happen.

Hey itd be cool ya, but i dont think it will ever happen, it would throw the game to off balance, maby 1 primarch could return and abaddon would become a deamon to level it up ya?

how about all primarches return and kick ass because humanity really needs their help. especially with the nids and all.

in what white dwarf did it say the inquisiton found Russ's armour? in the index astartes article about the capter it says that the space wolfs found his armour on one of the first greathunts accross the galaxy. i think hes probably the leader of the wolfen - only way i can see them having survived this long. using his superior geneseed.


Roboute Guilliman's wound is supposd to be healing - hard as nails

Dorns hand was found "i think" not his whole body - possbly could be a captive of Abbadon - scary thought.

Corax - disappeared
so did Jagati Kahn, Vulkan and Ferrus Mannus and lion el' jonson- they could return

only sanguinius, night haunter, horus and the emperor could not - even sides for a final conflict.

hey maybe Leman Russ got himself a better armour. space wolves are known to grap chaos weaponry, just look at the 13th company. maybe thats why they found his armour in a chaos temple. who knows :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

There are pics of models of Horus, Sanguineus and even the big Emp in the back of the SM dex. Yes, you guessed, a diorama of the final battle. I've heard rumours they made rules for the Emperor and he cost 1500 points. Also, Lion is asleep in the centre of the Rock with the Watchers in the Dark (don't ask)

Dorns Dead GARTH, the ship he was fighting on was destroyed and all that they could find was his hand.

Corax went into the eye and left his men behind im not sure bout the other dissapearences you mentiond.

yeah but ive heard rumours that dorn is leading the custodian guard to this day...no proof hes dead...so dont dismiss the possibility of his life

and sanguinius really could return...whats unfeasible about the eldar bringing sanguinius back?...after all he is one of the most noble heros ever...at the end of all times, he could confront abbadon and win, or kill some of the naughty primarchs...the eldar do whats best for them...sanguinius being alive could be best for them

Well Explain to me what good Him Being alive (dorn) would be if he didnt tell his chapter??? i really think that the idea of a primarch comeing back and not appearing to his legion is Insane.

he boards a ship, which gets destroyed, He Cut off his hand while his warriors died around him, left it, went to terra and leads the custodians??

Go figure.

y in the hell would he cut off his hand?...perhaps...i dunno...it got cut off?

besides hes a man with pride, he might not tell everyone 'hey i got beat! look at me!'...who knows...the imperial fist could know...but are waiting for him to recover from his shame

go figure

His hand was all they found, if he survived how did it get there?

And what shame is there to hide??

dorn wouldnt go to battle for 40 years after his battle against the iron warriors at the enternal fortress...so if he lost so bad his hand got chopped off (and he left it behind while retreating offship or sumthin) he would be pretty ashamed and give battle a miss for a good while

Point Accepted but wouldent he come back by now? its an awful lot of time to be sulking.

First off, as an Iron Hands player
and necron player
Ferrus Manus is not dead but is said to be hiding out on mars, which is looked down upon by the iron hands

and the use of primarchs has come up at school alot latly
i say that if i can use my nighbringer, destroyer of planets and slayer of many men, then Primarchs can be released using similar stats, even a god doesn't make the battle one sided, i've lost a few with the Nightbringer, so as long as the primarchs take a reasonable stat limit, than using them should be fine

The wolftime is heralded by the return of the 13th co. of wulfen. the return of the wulfen heralds the return of russ. the prophecy of some one(cant remember who) said;

the despoiler shall lay waste,
first the gate,
then the palace,
the bear shall take up the mantle of the gate keeper,
and the wulfen shall stand,
their names reviled for all time.

now this is how i see it, the despoiler is abaddon, (surprise, surprise!)
the bear is that cadian special charector, the one with the body gaurd..ursakar creed. the gate is cadia, the palace is terra, so is russ comein back?
:huh:

dorn may just have got more mentally scared after each defeat, eventually just losing his will to fight for a while...maybe still gaining it back...but im not saying your wrong azriel...just stating there are ways he may not be dead

russ could very well be coming back...but there are ways that every one of the primarchs could come back...lets hope they do heh

I don' think they'll all be comming back,i thing the number of surviving primarchs is about equal with the number of surviving traitor primarchs isn't it? I imagine they'd want to keep it that way in case there was another showdown between 'em

Originally posted by Carnage@May 18 2004, 15:05
and sanguinius really could return...whats unfeasible about the eldar bringing sanguinius back?...after all he is one of the most noble heros ever...at the end of all times, he could confront abbadon and win, or kill some of the naughty primarchs...the eldar do whats best for them...sanguinius being alive could be best for them
The burden of proof for his return is on you. Sanguinus was eviscerated by Horus. He is dead. He is deader than a snotling on the business end of an assault cannon. They can barely keep the God-Emperor alive and considering not only is he a God but he SURVIVED the battle I doubt they could do much to the corpse of Sanguinus who was already dead on arrival. Why on earth would the Eldar revive Sanguinus? Because its best for them? What does that even mean? You could technically say that about anyone. Of all the controversial fates of all the Primarchs, I think we can agree that Sanguinus is dead and will never come back. I know that may sound like I just told you Santa does not exist, but I am sure you will get over it eventually.

perhaps bawdy...but the fact is...do orks and eldar really exist?...no...this is a fantasy game you see...and thus they can make things happen...

sanguinius could be dead, but only for a few minutes before placed in a stasis field or somthing...eldar are psychic...they can do stuff...and have good technology...that can also do stuff

you see...in a fictional world...its possible...cos its not real bawdy, but u'll get over that eventually

Originally posted by Carnage@May 20 2004, 13:56
perhaps bawdy...but the fact is...do orks and eldar really exist?...no...this is a fantasy game you see...and thus they can make things happen...

sanguinius could be dead, but only for a few minutes before placed in a stasis field or somthing...eldar are psychic...they can do stuff...and have good technology...that can also do stuff

you see...in a fictional world...its possible...cos its not real bawdy, but u'll get over that eventually
40K is not a soap opera in which the death of major characters turns out to be just a dream(dont remember which one that was but it was that guy who was also married to suzanne summers in that sitcom). To keep the game from becoming absurd, there has to be some things that remain reliable. People wouldnt play it if stupid and crazy things like that happened. This is not Forgotten Realms where nonsensical things that bear no relation to the storyline occur.
FYI Carnage, just because it is fictional does not mean anything goes. There has to be some cohesion or it loses all credibility as a viable universe. Fortunately the guys at GW have enough sense to realize this so Sanguinus will remain worm food.

Yup, it's called "Suspension of Disbelief", meaning the universe needs to be viable enough to actually exist while at the same time being substantially different to make it interesting. Saying things like "OMg Snoguibes is alive coz the Eldar were liek magic and stuff and yeah OMGLOL!11!eleven!" does not help this.

Regarding the Primarchs in battle, it shouldn't be done. Why? 'Cuz it looks kinda stupid if, say, Leman Russ, mighty Primarch of the Space Wolves Chapter, slayer of the Emperor's enemies, God amongst men, dies due to a lucky round of lasgun fire. Even the C'tan aren't the actual C'tan on the battlefield, they're their essence in another form or some crazy-ass thing like that, just so it doesn't look stupid when a Space Marine kills your God, or you get two of him fighting himself. Plus, given the popularity of Marines, it wouldn't be uncommon in tourney play to get Sanguinus, The Lion, Guilliman, etc fighting against themselves, since I imagine the Primarches'd be a pretty common selection.

Also, a few people seem to be saying "Necrons get bigass god-type things, why shouldn't Marines?" Why stop there? Why not have Gork and Mork, that'd be cool! And the IG could have, uh, SOLAR MACHARIUS' GHOST OMG! And you could change the Tau fluff completely and give them a God or two to tag-team against Nurgle and Khorne! Yeah! My point being, Marines are meant to be an all-rounder force, adding the Primarches would change their playstyle completely. It's the same with any army; IG would turn into "Use the grunts as a meatshield to get Macharius' ghost into CC", Orks would have no real need for the Warboss, Chaos none for GDs...you see my argument. Necrons are designed to work as a cohesive whole even with C'tan in the force, other armies have different playstyles and frankly don't need changin that way, lest the game become "Who has the baddest god?"

who says they gotta be in battle?...nice for fluff tho

and bawdy...in a universe with big green men, psychic men with wings, and gods who fight along side their followers...you have alot of room to manouvre with what is feasible or not

the end battle against chaos, sanguinius could do some great service, perhaps sacrificing himself again to end the war or whatever...

its a possibility...i never said a definate one but theres a chance...after all gulliman is healing and such...theres alot of stuff that happens in game fluff, that lets be honest wont ever happen...as long as they have a way to back up how things happened

Nah, that's the whole point of suspension of disbelief...you need to have established rules. 40k is a dark and gritty apolicital future, where only the really bad guys come back to life. Even if GW said "Oh Sanguinus is alive now because this" and gave a good reason, players wouldn't like it, because it's not an established point in the fluff. Take Dragonball Z, if you've ever seen that. In that you can bring people back to life by collecting the seven Dragonballs and wishing for it. That's suspension of disbelief; people don't say "Hey, that's stupid, people don't come back from the dead!" because it's part of the DBZ backstory, whereas in 40k there's nothing that can resurrect someone short of the Chaos Gods, and only real badasses get that, so players would object. It's kind of odd, but true.

As for Robuters wound healing, in a stasis field?

I for one think its crap and Captain Uriel Ventris of the UM agrees with me, Its A rumour not a fact.

lol, rumours may be true...perhaps doubtful, but they make the game alot more interesting...never mind what we belive is feasible or not

Yes but Sanguinus (and Horus, and the Night Haunter for that matter) are dead and there are no rumors of their return. When the fluff says its "rumored" then they mean there is a good chance of it being true. However the primarchs listed above have no rumor of returning.

yeah there is...otherwise it wouldnt have been brought up here would it...

and if 'rumoured' means a good chance of being true, then the roboute gulliman healing thing has a good chance of being true i take it?

Yeah it does have a good chance, but if there is a 80% chance you will score a goal in a footy game, its a good chance, but there is sitll a 20% chance you wont.

What im saying is just because there is a good chance dont mean its gona happen

lol, i never once said anything in this board was definate...its a rumour board after all...i understand that many rumours arent true...but theres not point in saying for definate that somthing will or wont come true if its a rumour...theres still a chance...no matter how small

Originally posted by Carnage@May 22 2004, 15:34
the end battle against chaos, sanguinius could do some great service, perhaps sacrificing himself again to end the war or whatever...


XD that would be hilarious "Hey I'm back!" ~SPLAT~

As far as the whole Gods and Leaders in 40k i say keep the Gods and Primarchs AND...whatever.. were they are,in the warp or dead! gods lose something when you stick them on the battlefield with mere mortals,it just sort of cheapens the Primarchs to have them battling anything but a Daemon Prince or Ork Warlord,but doing so in game makes the whole thing cheap,it just turns into "Leman Russ vs Nightbringer..guest starring thier armies" instead of "SM vs 'crons"..hell I don't even like the idea of C'Tan being on the table,even if thay are being squeezed into a less powerful avatar,it's still cheap..

Originally posted by Carnage@May 24 2004, 14:56
yeah there is...otherwise it wouldnt have been brought up here would it...

and if 'rumoured' means a good chance of being true, then the roboute gulliman healing thing has a good chance of being true i take it?
I dont think you understood what I mean by "rumor." I meant rumors mentioned in fluff, not rumors made up by fans. Rumors in the fluff goe something like this: "It is rumored that the sword tha Cypher carries yet never draws is the mythical Lion Sword." Ridiculous rumors made up by gamers: "Sanguinus is going to by brought back by the Eldar."

yeah perhaps, but the fact is i have read from white dwarf somewere (im not quoting) all the primarchs appear to be returning...take that how you will but i take it as all of them....or many...and as its feasible (spirit retrieval and such) im not gunna dismiss it

What issue? That is a pretty big claim...

Yes Carnage what issue? I have every issue from about 150 onwards and I dont recall ever seeing anything about the Primarchs returning.

hell i dont even remember, otherwise i would have said there...again i may be wrong, but i think its in one of the index asartes issues

I've got all the index astrates and non of them state the Primarchs are returning. However most mention legends , prophasies and beliefs of chapters that foretell their Primarch returning.

Carnage i dint say its not going to happen for certain either, chance is chance, and as for you totaly bogus claim, i also have Every inex astartes (includeing DW and GK) And i dont see that anywhere,

On to chapter rumours about, My dady was shot in the face with a shotgun but hes healing!

Uriel Ventris put this simple for me when in Nightbringer he looks at the body of Robute, and to the Scarlet wound, He Suddently realises, as a holy Group enter behind him that they belive these things because they need to, if they had noting to belive in or hope for, then thats it over blam, inot perspective

A kid, his dad is shot in the head with a shotgun, the kid relied on his dad loads, and is really hurt by this

He cant comprehend the fact that hes gone and gone forever, He says, Well he mite get better!!

You cant say to me, that when a loved one has been give 24hrs to live, or a cats gota be put down,or ur fav dog, That you dont think "Surely there is some way we can save him/her/it" Even though you know all hope is lost, you still say, there must be a way? its the same with the SM and their primarches, They dont want to accept that if robute leaves stasis hes dead, But They want to think, even though they know a wound healing in stasis is impossible, they want to think, Yes its happening, he will be back.

all right, but not all the primarchs are dead, corax, myself ((how sad am i?),leaman russ) ect.... waddbout them.

They might come back..doubt it though..when they do come back is when we need to worry b/c it will signal the end of the game and then we'd all have to go out and get lives :P

dont start the realism thing again azriel lol...if your not sayin for definate it wont happen, then y argue so much?...perhaps its vey unlikely, but the fact is like u urself said chance is chance

and the shotgun example wasnt the best one man, ive heard a kid say stuff like that (not from a shotgun..and this is off topic but not the point)

you dont play the game and know everything that will ever happen in it...its just dumb...perhaps im the only one who likes to think it might happen, but frankly i dont care if i am lol

I argue so much because you just cant accept the fact that there is a chance it wont happen!!

and at what point did i say i know everything about the game?
Ask any 1 here an they will tell u i usualy dont argue be for ripping in to some one but you just a total moron now,

Accept it it MITE happen it mite NOT happen.

Well, there is always possibility Imperium will make up new ones... remember the story on the Cursed Founding? Exactly...

azriel...ive said at least twice about how unlikely it is...does that not idicate to you i know i most likely wont happen? someone wasnt reading properly

im just sayin that you shouldnt say for definate (as u WERE doing) that somthing wont happen thats all

This thread has degenerated into a circle argument a very long time ago, time to end it. And for the last bloody time:

Mind your f*cking spelling. I don't give a sh!t if you're dyslexic, you were born without a head, or you just dropped a pencil on your little toenail. Replacing letters with numbers, and words with single letters has sh!t to do with that. It has a lot more to do with the fact that the writer is a wanker. If you really have a problem with writing your posts in something that resembles english use a f*cking spell checker.


Thread locked.