I've tried making a combat patrol list..... but I'll like to hear yours opinions and get some advises

Troop:

10 Green Kroot carnivore 96 pts
+ 1 flamer

10 Green Kroot carnivore 96 pts
+1 flamer

Fast:

10 Green Vulture kindred 152 pts
+ 2 meltabombs

Heavy:

6 Green Hunter kindred 54 pts

Total: 398 pts

I assume as when the shaper isn't with them the +1 cost per kroot and their bonuses disappear

it doesn't work that way the kroot mercenaries have a base cost of 8, wether or not the shper is with them. I also don't think you could have special weapons witout them too.

it doesn't work that way the kroot mercenaries have a base cost of 8, wether or not the shper is with them
The only reason why the cost 8 is becouse of the shaper, just like normal kroots, then I just make them standard kroots with the adaption, sound logical to me
I also don't think you could have special weapons witout them too.
I can take "standard" troop weapons for my kroots, in the codex is mentioned which weapons only shapers or master shapers can take, so I think that my list is fully leagal

Well if you want to bedn the rules like this, simply ask for the permission to your game group before doing so, as playing against a modified list without notice can bring up some trouble after the game.

Plus, you need that extra point of leadership IMO, Ld 7 is getting dangerously non reliable.

I can't get the extra point of leadership without a shaper it is so simple, I include a shaper in my kroots, my kroots is now cost 1 more point ( 8 ) and they get the extra leaderhip and 6+ save, but since I can't include a shaper I have to use the kroot stats as they are as standard IMO it is not rulebending it is just simple logic

A kroot merc is not different from the kroot in the Tau codex, expect for the adaption rule and so, but not in his bare form

But anyway I can't see why people would deny me using simple logic when I sample my army, so IMO I don't have a problem IF I had to ask for permission which I IMO not have to

It is a different army list, and doesn't use the kroot rules for the tau codex.

Int he Kroot mercenaries armylist you don't get the 7/8 points listed and any special rules regardless of the presence of a shaper or not. The same applies to wargear, as flamers meltaboms are only availale to shapers.

This is why the kroot aren't very effective in combat patrols, they have no way to deal with armour without shapers.

An alternative way to solve your problem would to to amend with your gaming group the nubmer of wounds the shapers have, crop them to 2 for the same cost, this would be best IMO, and not induce any confusion.

It is a different army list, and doesn't use the kroot rules for the tau codex.

Int he Kroot mercenaries armylist you don't get the 7/8 points listed and any special rules regardless of the presence of a shaper or not. The same applies to wargear, as flamers meltaboms are only availale to shapers.

This is why the kroot aren't very effective in combat patrols, they have no way to deal with armour without shapers.

An alternative way to solve your problem would to to amend with your gaming group the nubmer of wounds the shapers have, crop them to 2 for the same cost, this would be best IMO, and not induce any confusion.

I see your point now, sorry I guess I'm a bit too tired to actually read the codex right, but I'm still pretty sure that the kroots without a shaper cost 7, the only reason for the 7/8 rule not stand in the codex is becouse you HAVE to field a shaper in each choice which makes them cost 8 points each

I think that I'll take to my opponents and make out a solution on this one sice I wanna play kroot merc and they wanna face a kroot merc list, so I think I can work something out with them..... but anyway thx for your help on the rules

I see your point now, sorry I guess I'm a bit too tired to actually read the codex right, but I'm still pretty sure that the kroots without a shaper cost 7, the only reason for the 7/8 rule not stand in the codex is becouse you HAVE to field a shaper in each choice which makes them cost 8 points each

I think that I'll take to my opponents and make out a solution on this one sice I wanna play kroot merc and they wanna face a kroot merc list, so I think I can work something out with them..... but anyway thx for your help on the rules
The reason kroot have a cost of 7/8 in the tau codex is because they cost with with the 6+ armor save, 7 with no save (They can be unarmored with a shaper, or armored sans one). The option is only for the kroot in the tau list, therefor you must pay 8 points per kroot regardless of the presence of a shaper. The shaper has no influence on teh cost of the unit other than that he costs 21 points.
Hope that clears it up a little.

It doesn't matter I've got my opponent permission to field shapers so I have to pay 8 pts per kroot anyway, I'll come up with a list when I get back home to my codex

I've got my opponents permision to field sharpers, but now the list pretty costly so I've changed it a bit

Troops (254 pts)

11 Kroots
+1 sharper w/flamer, shuriken pistol and krak grenade

11 kroots
+1 sharper w/flamewr, shuriken pistol and krak grenade

Fast (143 pts)

9 vulture kindred
+1 sharper w/ krak greande

Total 397 pts

Give the shapers power weapons, or meltabombs instead of krak grenades

I don't think that I'm gonna use meltabombs in combat patrols I think a S6+1d6 can penetratte or glance most vehicles that I gonna face

I don't think that I'm gonna use meltabombs in combat patrols I think a S6+1d6 can penetratte or glance most vehicles that I gonna face

Ronnis chimeras will cause you much pain. Get those bombs, you will need them.

Then I have to get rid of some kroots since the meltas cost 4 pts more than the kraks, at first I think that I'll stick with my kraks and see how they works. If they don't I'll get meltas instead

Just to throw in...

As was said, there is no relation between these Kroot and the Tau Kroot, except fluff.

You can't lower their cost when you don't bring in a Shaper, they must use their statline. I see where you're coming from, as a Tau player, with all of that, but it's still a big no.

You have to use the Kroot Merc.'s stuff, with or without a Shaper, that's their statline. There is no rule in the Kroot Mercs. list that states "when you have a Shaper, they have a 6+ save" or "when you take away the Shaper, they cost less and have less" etc.

That's Tau-only.

Sorry to say it nemesis, but a kroot merc army MUST have shapers and as I've already said earlier I've got my opponents approvement to field shapers then I'm fielding a kroot merc army at the kroot merc prices... but thx anyway even though that rule IMO makes absolutly no sense, so do the rule which says that Tau can't use kroot mercs

Sorry to say it nemesis, but a kroot merc army MUST have shapers and as I've already said earlier I've got my opponents approvement to field shapers then I'm fielding a kroot merc army at the kroot merc prices... but thx anyway even though that rule IMO makes absolutly no sense, so do the rule which says that Tau can't use kroot mercs

Hm.

Yes, true. But.

A Kroot Mercs. army also has to have a Master Shaper. But you don't have to in Combat Patrol ('cept .. not with 3 wounds .. weird stuff). See what I'm getting at?

When it comes to Combat Patrol, some rules don't apply.

For example:

For example, in Codex: Imperial Guard an Armoured Fist squad is a Troops choice, but you must take an Infantry platoon before you can take it. It is perfectly reasonable that a mobile unit like this would carry out patrols, so in Combat Patrol, the Armoured Fist squad can be taken on its own.

There's no reason why a rule like this couldn't apply to Kroot Mercenaries.

so do the rule which says that Tau can't use kroot mercs

It makes perfect sense. The Kroot are basically hiring themselves out behind the Tau's back. The Tau don't know! There is a quote somewhere in the Kroot Mercs. list, I'm pretty sure, that backs this up but the list is on my other comp and I'm too lazy to look it up. ;)

Hm.

Yes, true. But.

A Kroot Mercs. army also has to have a Master Shaper. But you don't have to in Combat Patrol ('cept .. not with 3 wounds .. weird stuff). See what I'm getting at?

When it comes to Combat Patrol, some rules don't apply.

For example:



There's no reason why a rule like this couldn't apply to Kroot Mercenaries.

No a kroots don't have to field a Master Shaper, you can field a Shaper Council instead, but it still don't help in CPs, and you don't have to use HQs in CPs, that is why you don't have to use MS or SC in CPs


It makes perfect sense. The Kroot are basically hiring themselves out behind the Tau's back. The Tau don't know! There is a quote somewhere in the Kroot Mercs. list, I'm pretty sure, that backs this up but the list is on my other comp and I'm too lazy to look it up. ;)

No it don't, I can't find anywhere which says why they won't hire other kroots to the Tau than carnivores, but perhaps it is becouse of the one-sided mind of the Tau...

No a kroots don't have to field a Master Shaper, you can field a Shaper Council instead, but it still don't help in CPs, and you don't have to use HQs in CPs, that is why you don't have to use MS or SC in CPs




No it don't, I can't find anywhere which says why they won't hire other kroots to the Tau than carnivores, but perhaps it is becouse of the one-sided mind of the Tau...

Again, I'm too lazy to download the codex onto this computer, but I'm pretty sure that yes, you do have to take a Master Shaper ... I believe it is "1 Master Shaper" and not 0-1, but I'm lazy. So.

And it's because the Tau believe that once a race has entered their empire they fight for them and only them. If you had a rather reliable force, and figured out that they've been going behind your back and hiring themselves out to your enemies, how would you feel? :p

Again, I'm too lazy to download the codex onto this computer, but I'm pretty sure that yes, you do have to take a Master Shaper ... I believe it is "1 Master Shaper" and not 0-1, but I'm lazy. So.

And it's because the Tau believe that once a race has entered their empire they fight for them and only them. If you had a rather reliable force, and figured out that they've been going behind your back and hiring themselves out to your enemies, how would you feel? :p

You are right it does says 1 Master Shaper, so I guess that I have to use him then, but it doesn't matters since I already planned to do so, but only for the fluff, but now I also have to do it coused the rules

And for the kroots hireing themself out behind the back of Tau: Well they would probably be threated as traitors or something like that

No, as they are merceneries by nature, and the tau know this. only a part of the kroot society as joined the greater good.

I know, but it still doesn't explain why Tau aren't hireing the other part, the part that many other armies hire.

But my best guess why is becouse the Tau is kind of one-minded, perhaps other kind of kroots doesn't fir into the plans of the Tau

No actually, it's that the kroot hired by the tau have absorbed most of the worthy genes in the sector, so do not evolve as they stagger, hence whjy the other part travels beyond the tau empire in persuit of new genes to assimilate.