Hey all.

I don't own the 2004 Annual book so I was wondering if you all could clear this up for me. I have an idea for a Dogs of War army but I'm not sure I can hack it. My idea is as follows.

A rogue prince (Mercenary General) from the Border Princes loses everything and becomes embittered with the Empire and everything to do with it so he flees east with his trusted wizard friend (Hireling Wizard) and eventually winds up at the trading post of the Sentinels (I'll work a Paymaster in too), near the Mountains of Mourn. His grand, maniacal plan is to raise an army of man-hating mercenaries to topple his rivals back home. With the fortunes he took with him from the Border Princes, he manages to purchase the services of some mercenary ogres (I want some Bulls in my army). He goes on a bit of a bender and pummels a local greenskin tribe into submission (I also want Black Orcs and Hobgoblins, preferably Oglah Khan and troupe), adding them to his forces. After some profitable looting he manages to finagle the services of some Chaos Dwarfs and a Hellcannon (I want both of those things) and, figuring he's got a good chance of success against his enemies, sets off for some killing (I might also throw in some non-human cavalry using the generic rules for Dogs of War).

Now, I want this army to be 2000 points, but I also want it to be non-human (except for the characters) and consist mostly of Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, and Greenskins. Is there any way to do this and avoid taking any of the generic core choices from the Dogs of War and Regiments of Renowned lists (I don't want pikemen or crossbowmen or duelists of any of that jazz)? Will said Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, and Greenskins all cost me special/rare slots or can they be taken as core (any of them)? The only humans I'd consider taking are some wayward Chaos Marauders (maybe from the Chaos Wastes around the south pole, just for fun) as the Light and Heavy cav. choices but I don't really want to do that.

The reason I want to do this is I like my idea (even if you don't :p ) and, after purchasing both the armies you see in my signature in the last five months, I want it to be easy on the pocket.

Thanks a bunch for any help.

Well you canhave those ogres as a special, maybe make the CD's count as dwarfs (just don't use the greenskin hate rule) which are also special. You could make some heavy and light cav out of non- human models. No idea about the greenskins though.....

Oglah Khan's Wolfboyz are definitely in (great models) and I was thinking of Ruglud's Armored Orcs but I really wanted Black Orcs. Maybe I'll compromise. The cavalry thing seems like the only way to meet the core criteria. Any ideas what I should make them (Greenskins don't really fit the bill as they'd have no animosity)? I've been looking at the DoW rules on the UK site. Can anyone tell me if they're the same as the ones in the 2004 Annual?

Sorry for all the questions ^_^ .

Oglah khans wolfboys are special, so there is a disnct lack of core chosices. Im sure you could mount some Orcs on boars and call them heavy cav, with you opponents conscent (because no anmosity). This is a toughie...

I've had two ideas, care to help me choose ;) ? Humans seem inevitable so either the prince brought the most trusted of his warriors with him or he beat a local tribe of nomadic savages into submission and took over, forcing them to fight for him. I prefer the latter as it goes better with his image but I'd be interested in other opinons.

I agree, the later sounds better and give you more fluff and conversion options. :)

Cool, I'm working on a rough list now. I'm kind of liking the idea now that I've been thinking it over. Plus, I've always liked plastic Marauders so they'll be the basis.

Here it is, the twenty minute army list. I'm mostly happy with it (I wish I had the Hellcannon rules though...), except for the price (money saver my ass).

EDIT: Even more questions arise. Say I converted Oglah Khan's and Ruglud's boyz from plastics. Do you see many people objecting to this? Also, can anyone think of a way to make bare-skinned, plastic human horsemen? Chaos Marauders seem like the obvious way to go but I'm lost on the leg part. Thanks for any advice.

----------------------
1999 points

Lord
179 points
Mercenary General-90 points
morning star (+3), brace of pistols (+20), heavy armor (+6), Enchanted Shield (+10), Pegasus (+50)

Heroes
149 points
Hireling Wizard-60 points
hand weapon, Level 2 (+35), Dispel Scroll (+25), Talisman of Protection (+15), barded warhorse (+14)

86 points
Paymaster-55 points
great weapon (+4), pistol (+7) heavy armor (+4), shield (+2), barded warhorse (+14)

Core
255 points
10 Heavy Cavalry-190
barding (+20), full command (+45)

117 points
6 Light Cavalry-66 points
bows (+24), shields (+12), musician (+15)

117 points
6 Light Cavalry-66 points
bows (+24), shields (+12), musician (+15)

117 points
6 Light Cavalry-66 points
bows (+24), shields (+12), musician (+15)

Special
268 points
6 Ogre Bulls-210 points
ironfists (+30), light armor (+18 ), bellower (+10)

180 points
2 Ogre Maneaters-160 points
Cathayan longsword (+6), great weapon (+6), heavy armor (+8 )

220 points
4 Ogre Leadbelchers-220 points

174 points
16 Chaos Dwarfs (using DoW generic Dwarfs)-112 points
heavy armor (+16), shields (+16), full command (+30)

Rare
85 points
(Chaos Dwarf) Cannon-85 points

50 points
(Chaos Dwarf) Halfling Hotpot-50 points
----------------------

Looks like a good solid fast moving list, but you really need some pikemen, crossbowmen or duelists in a there. The only way I can thing of getting bare-skined human horsemen are Kislev Horse archers (not plastic but look the best) or marauder horsemen. Im sure no one would mind, unless they were really anal about things like this (like my friend :D )....

Sorry, but the pikemen, crossbowmen, and duelists are all out. I don't care so much if this army is tactically crap (my Ogres are the good army), I just want it to conform to the fluff I've got in my head. The crossbowmen aren't really necessary to begin with as the horse archers, Ruglud's boyz, and Oglah Khan's boyz have all the shooting covered (plus the General, Paymaster, and cannon). Duelists can safely be ignored, though the lack of pikes will, admittedly, be a problem. Still, if I can win with this the victory will be that much sweeter!

Yeah, I really like Kislev models but, assuming I buy just enough for the 26 core troops, I'll be paying $304! I can blag the Orcs using models I already own, I have the Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs done, and I can model the Cannon from a Leadbelcher spare, but I'd still need the Wolfboyz and the three characters. Throw on another $80-$100 for them all and this army isn't much cheaper than my other two :( . If I can get some of the models used or on eBay or something I could save some money, I suppose.

Concerning your General, the Brace of Pistols is useless. As you cannot use a mundane weapon while wielding a magical one, you cannot use the Pistols in close combat. Therefore, I'd suggest changing the Brace into a single Pistol. The general becomes cheaper, and his effectieveness won't suffer one bit.

Another thing to consider is, that if not fighting foes especially vulnerable to magic, the Sword of Battle is, in fact, inferior to the Brace.

With Sword of Battle, your General will have five magical attacks.
With Brace of Pistols, your General will have 5 Armour Piercing attacks in the first round, and five normal attacks afterwards (The loss of magic does not matter at all in many cases. If your opponents include Daemon-using Chaos, new Wood Elves who field Forest Spirits, or Vampire Counts who use Ethereal units, you might want to reconsider)

Good points. I simply wanted to give him a ranged attack and, as I'm hazy surrounding the rules for guns, I figured more is better :rolleyes: (forgot you can use 'em in close combat). Dropping the magic sword would save me some points. Is there any merit in giving him a lance then? That way he gets the Strength bonus on the charge then switches to guns for an extra attack OR uses the guns from the getgo for some armor smashing.

The pistols range is only 8'' and thats about charge range. So I won't take a lance because it's pretty much shoot and get charged OR charge and not shoot. Not good for 20pts. ;)

I was thinking charge with the lance then switch to the pistols for rounds 2+ to get the extra attack (you can switch between lances and close combat weapons during combat, no?). If he's charged (something I'd try to avoid, what with the Pegasus and all), he'd use the pistols in the first round of combat for the armor piercing power (that can be used off the charge, I think).

Sounds like a good plan. You can switch between them as long as it a differant turn. EG. charge with lance then next turn use pistols. ;)

I was thinking charge with the lance then switch to the pistols for rounds 2+ to get the extra attack (you can switch between lances and close combat weapons during combat, no?).

Yep. If you are a Bretonnian character, that is. For others, the rule is that you choose a weapon at the start of combat and stick with it.

So, your General has the options to:

Use Lance+Enchanted Shield
Use Lance only
Use Hand Weapon and Enchanted Shield
Use Hand Weapon only
Use Brace of Pistols.

Obviously, lance&Shield and the pistols are the best. I'd suggest either giving him only a single pistol for shooting, or switching the lance and Enchanted Shield out for a normal Shield (that'd only be used against shooting, in close combat the character would utilize his pistols)

Yep. If you are a Bretonnian character, that is. For others, the rule is that you choose a weapon at the start of combat and stick with it.
Damn. Ah well.

Obviously, lance&Shield and the pistols are the best. I'd suggest either giving him only a single pistol for shooting, or switching the lance and Enchanted Shield out for a normal Shield (that'd only be used against shooting, in close combat the character would utilize his pistols)
Since this army is based solely on fluff, meaning tactical ability is secondary, I've decided to make the General a bit of a coward. He'll have an Enchanted Shield to protect him from shooting (unless it's 5+ is only granted in close combat, I can't remember) and a brace of pistols. He'll spend most of the game as the typical wizard/warmachine hunter, popping off shots with the guns, and occasionally tackling light combat units like skirmishers and fast cavalry in close combat. This is also partly due to the fact that I really like the Mordheim Highwayman model and so will be using it with a different head.

Sorry, but your list is entirely illegal.
You have FOUR rare choices there, as Ogre Maneater Units count as two rare choices in every army but Ogre Kingdoms.
Personally I think they should just be a single rare choice in DOW and OK, but that's just my opinion, not the rules.

If you read the fine print it says that they count as special in DOW armys. ;)

Mmm...

As far as I know, Maneaters are a single Rare in DoW armies...

But, I might very well be wrong, so...

Mmm...

As far as I know, Maneaters are a single Rare in DoW armies...

But, I might very well be wrong, so...
No, warrior poet had it right. Maneaters take up a single special slot in Dogs of War armies. Seems a bit odd, but that is how the rule is stated. I know because a local player took 18 in two units of four and two units of five to the Seattle GT, all with braces of handguns (five attacks, S5, anyone?).
Since this army is based solely on fluff, meaning tactical ability is secondary, I've decided to make the General a bit of a coward. He'll have an Enchanted Shield to protect him from shooting (unless it's 5+ is only granted in close combat, I can't remember) and a brace of pistols. He'll spend most of the game as the typical wizard/warmachine hunter, popping off shots with the guns, and occasionally tackling light combat units like skirmishers and fast cavalry in close combat. This is also partly due to the fact that I really like the Mordheim Highwayman model and so will be using it with a different head.
While that is a sweet model, I think that role is better suited to another character, not your general, at least. You do have a fourth character slot, and although I don't know what you'd drop to make the points, I'd suggest having him on a normal barded warhorse and giving a boost to those heavy cavalry. Maybe that's just me, but I rarely like to have characters off on their own, they become too vulnerable.

Hope some of that helps.

Well, the Handguns actually NERF the Maneaters (from St5 to St4 AP) in the first round. Other than that... INSANE. 18 Maneaters? Just how insanely does that cost, as some 20 Ironguts w/Command cost approx 1000pts...

EDIT: Just one thing... Maneaters in a Marienburg army! That's one sweet Core unit, there... :D (As they have DoW as Core... Do you think it's two Cores or a Core and a Rare, or two Rares?)

Not sure, but pistols might be worded "may be used...", which means you could choose to use the S4 AP attacks, or just use them as the two hand weapons they count as later. Even if it doesn't say that, handguns in combat is still pretty nice. And with Stubborn 8, you won't be going anywhere for a while with only average luck.

I think they only had light armor, and it might have been a little less than 18 (it's been a while since he's used the army), but I think it's about 1500 points. In his 2k, it was his pirate list and it had them and a bunch of duelists, also with pistols.

Thanks everybody, I've changed the list a bit more (to coincide with the fluff) by making the existing Bulls five-strong and replacing the Leadbelchers with another unit of five Bulls (bad, I know, but like I said, tactical ability isn't very important to me).

The four Ogre units that have the Dogs of War rule (Bulls, Ironguts, Leadbelchers, and Maneaters) each count as a single Special choice in Dogs of War armies (hah! :D).

As for that dude with the eighteen Maneaters, if they did indeed have light armor that's 1376 points :o . Cheapness, I say, but hey...

One unit you've ignored are the Duelists, a unit of those with shield, hand weapon and pistol are cheap and fairly good at surprising the enemy. They see skirmishers and get pelted with shot :D , just a thought.

If you read the fine print it says that they count as special in DOW armys. ;)

Actually, if you read the fine print it says, in big bold letters, that Ogre Maneaters count as two Rare choices in any army but OK.

Actually, if you read the fine print it says, in big bold letters, that Ogre Maneaters count as two Rare choices in any army but OK.
And then it goes on to say that instead of taking up a rare, those units take up only a special in DoW armies (maneaters, ironguts, leadbelchers, and bulls). They do take up two rares in other armies, just not DoW. Seems a bit odd, since DoW can have more units of them than a normal ogre kingdoms list, but that is how it works.

And then it goes on to say that instead of taking up a rare, those units take up only a special in DoW armies (maneaters, ironguts, leadbelchers, and bulls). They do take up two rares in other armies, just not DoW. Seems a bit odd, since DoW can have more units of them than a normal ogre kingdoms list, but that is how it works.

Yep, got the Ogres army list in front of me now and the wording is

In a Dogs of War army, any Ogre unit with the Dogs of War rule counts as a Special choice.

the pertinent point being 'any'. Makes a DoW army a more interesting option doesn't it :D

The new Ogre Rhinox Cavalry are out and they're the only ones who don't count as special (1 rare and 1 special in non-Ironskin Ogre armies, 2 rare in others including Dogs of War). I thinking making them a single special choice would have been going a bit too far :).

One unit you've ignored are the Duelists, a unit of those with shield, hand weapon and pistol are cheap and fairly good at surprising the enemy. They see skirmishers and get pelted with shot , just a thought.
Heh, yeah they're a good unit but they don't fit in with my fluff so they're out. I didn't want any humans when I started but had to compromise some to get my core units.

I've finalized the army list and it is now in the Army List forum where it belongs (here (http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/showthread.php?p=442156#post442156)). The fluff for the army is very nearly finished (and pretty long) so when I complete it I'll post it in the Fluff forum and hopefully it will help explain some of my wonky decision making.

No again. Maneaters are two rare choices in every army but Ogre Kingdoms. Read the book.

Yep, got the Ogres army list in front of me now and the wording is

In a Dogs of War army, any Ogre unit with the Dogs of War rule counts as a Special choice.

the pertinent point being 'any'.

Revlid this is the offical wording in the book, and since maneaters have the Dogs Of War rule, it applies.

poet's right, Revlid, they really are one Special choice in Dogs of War armies.

Sorry, had a check on the rules and saw the passage that corrected me. 2/3 passages it states 2 rares, but in the third it specifically mentions DoW. Oh well. Good luck with the army anyway.

It makes sence fluff wise as well, the maneaters in OK armies are those that have returned from their travels, whereas we have the ones who are out fighting alongside thinlings.