Brimstone of Warseer has updated the dark Angels rumour round up. The latest additions awerve more towards the HQ section. ;)

HQ

• Grandmaster Azarael
Wargear Krak & Frag grenades, bolt pistol, Protector (artificer armour), Lion Helm (provides invulnerable save for Azarael and any unit he joins), Sword of Secrets(MC Power weapon +2S) and Lions Wrath (MC Combi plasma).

• Belial- Master of the Deathwing
- Wargear Terminator armour, storm bolter and Sword of Silence
- May change weapons to lightning claws or Thunder hammer/Storm shield for free.
- If Belial is included in an army one Terminator squad may be upgraded to a Deathwing command squad (Deathwing standard bearer and Apothecary).

• Sammael - Master of the Ravenwing
- Wargear Power Armour, Frag & Krak Grenades, Bolt Pistol, Iron Halo, Raven Sword, Adamantine Mantle, Jetbike (armed with TL-Storm Bolters & under slung Plasma Cannon)
- May switch to his Land Speeder in which case he now counts as a vehicle and wargear becomes ceremonial (having no in-game use). Shield of night now provides AV14 front and sides.
- If Sammael is included in a army one attack squadron may be upgraded to a Ravenwing command squad (Ravenwing standard bearer and Apothecary).

• Company Master (Master of the 3rd, 4th and 5th companies)
- May take a five man command squad but does not have to join them.

• Ezekiel – Grandmaster of the Librarians
- Wargear Frag & Krak grenades, Secrets Shield (Artificer Armour), Deliver (MC Bolt Pistol), Traitors Bane (MC Force Weapon), Book of Salvation (all DA units within 12" are Fearless), and Psychic Hood, comes with both DA Psyker powers plus Mindworm.

• Dark Angels Librarian
- Pretty much the same as codex Space Marines except has two unique powers, Hellfire (Template str2D6-2 APD6) and Force Barrier (once per turn LD test ignore damage (not effective against psycannons/C'tan etc)).

• Dark Angels Chaplain
- Pretty much the same as codex Space Marines, may be upgraded to Interrogator Chaplains
- May take Terminator armour, bikes or Jump Packs.

• Dark Angels Command squads (max 5 models) are a HQ choice but do not take up a HQ slot you can take one for IC but they do not automatically form a retinue and may separate.

Elites

• Deathwing Terminator squad
- Squad Size is five models (no more/no less).
- All members of the Deathwing are fearless
- Only one heavy weapon per squad (One assault cannon, one Cyclone launcher or one heavy flamer).
- Squad can include a mixture of standard and close combat terminators.
- Uses special rule (Deathwing Assault) up to 50% of terminator squads may deepstrike in the first turn without having to roll for deepstrike.
- Terminators are cheaper than the old Dark Angel codex but more expensive than Codex Space Marine Terminators
- Terminator standard equipment includes teleport homers.

• Company Veterans squad
- Base of five models and up to an additional five (although a max. squad of ten is needed to use the rule "combat squads").
- Can take a mixture of weaponry (combi-weapons, storm bolters, special and heavy weapons).

• Techmarines
- Counts as elites but does not use an Elite slot in the FoC.
- One Techmarine may be taken for each non transport vehicle included in an army.

• Dark Angels Scout Squad
- Base is five marines and veteran sgt.
- May include a further five scouts.
- Armed with Krak, Frag and bolt pistol and one of the following as standard Bolter, Shotgun or Close Combat weapon.
- Shotgun is now S4 (Manstopper rounds)
- Rest of options similar to scout squads.
(In a later post on the mentioned rumour round up Brim believed that the scouts benefit from the Combat squad rule)

Troops

• Tactical squad
- Uses "combat squads" rule
- May take a special weapon if five marines and a special and heavy weapon if ten marines (heavy weapon includes plasma cannon)

• Ravenwing Attack squadron (If Master of the Ravenwing taken).

• Deathwing Terminator Squad (If Master of the Deathwing taken).

Fast Attack

• Assault squad
- Uses "combat squads" rule
- May remove jump packs to count as infantry and can take a Rhino or Drop pod at no additional points cost.

• Ravenwing Attack Squadron
- Base of three bikes (may add another three to a maximum of six.
- All Ravenwing bikes are fearless.
- All Ravenwing bikes (including attack bikes) come with teleport homers and Scout USR as standard
- Two bikes may take a special weapon (flamer, melta or plasma at a points cost).
- Attack bike can be added as standard
- If squadron consists of maximum bikes (six) then a land speeder Tornado may be added.
- Squadron is deployed at the same time but may be separated into four scoring units (2x3 bikes, 1 x attack bike and 1 x land speeder Tornado).

• Ravenwing Support Squadron
- Base is one land speeder.
- May include up to four more land speeders, one may be a Tornado and one more a Typhoon.

Heavy Support

• Devastators
- May use "combat squads" rule allowing squad to be split into 2x5 marines; this allows you to split out heavy weapons into two units.

Vehicle information

• Vehicles come with searchlights and smoke launchers as standard equipment.

• Drop pods and Predator annihilators (w/lascannon sponsons) more expensive all other vehicles remain at the same price or are cheaper.

• Whirlwinds have an option for incendiary missiles that remove cover saves.

• Dreadnoughts may take a Plasmacannon or Twin-linked Autocannon.

General Information

• All Dark Angels power armoured squads come with krak, frag and bolt pistols as standard
• All Dark Angels squads are led by veteran sergeants.

• Standards of Fortitude, Devastation and Retribution now come under a single classification of "sacred standard" and require a interrogator chaplain in the army to use.

• No veteran skills available to Dark Angels.

• Codex follows the same format as the recently released Eldar codex.

• ‘Combat squads’ used for many selections, base is five models and then may be given another five models for a maximum of 10. When deployed unit may be split into two separate scoring units.

• Jink Save for the Ravenwing is gone.

• Stubborn and Intractable are gone.

• Rules for Cypher are not included in the codex

• No Mortis Dreadnought in the codex.

Miniature Information

• Several new HQ models including two new captains (already seen) along with remakes of named characters.

• Dark Angels upgrade sprue (similar to the Black Templars one but of better quality), icons for vehicle upgrades (no separate door sets). Including Deathwing parts and robed bodies.

• New Ravenwing sprue (including parts for the MotRW landspeeder)

• New Land Speeder sprue including parts for Tornado and Typhoon.

• Armydeal (Dark Angels) and Battleforce (Ravenwing) will be available

• New model for Cypher.

• Cypher is getting a new model. The new model of Cypher is confirmed, due for a late release. The model is in a pose crossed between the Emperor's champion and the LOTR Witch King. I hope you get what I mean. He is looking slightly downwards, and is armed with a very nice sword and some pistol I didn't recognise. (source Destris)

• Cypher is getting a new model. The new model of Cypher is confirmed, due for a late release. The model is in a pose crossed between the Emperor's champion and the LOTR Witch King. I hope you get what I mean. He is looking slightly downwards, and is armed with a very nice sword and some pistol I didn't recognise. (source Destris)

I could be wrong, but I believe that would be the Luther Sword.


Wait, why are they making a new sculpt for Cypher if they aren't going to include his rules in the codex?

I could be wrong, but I believe that would be the Luther Sword.


Wait, why are they making a new sculpt for Cypher if they aren't going to include his rules in the codex?

I am not sure myself. It could be they will release the rules for him in a WD or something or maybe it will be a Online Store exclusive. To be honest it is anyones guess :hmm:.

The changes in Brim's post I noticed are
1. deathwing get teleport homer as basic.
2. Doesn't say Liby powers are unchangable anymore.



Now for the termis, that pretty cool, and makes sence. I mean who made a DW army with out kitting every Sgt with a homer anyway. And for the fluff of the army makes sence.

I'm really curious about the librarians personally. I think it's lame to lock down their powers. It's very cool to introduce DA only powers, or even to say you have to take at least one of the DA ones. But let players have the option of using one the SM powers. Otherwise it makes a very cool and useful unit very unflexible, and everyone knows what they are going to be.

Maybe Cypher has repented and hes part of Dark Angels again (yeah, I know that doesn't sound right...)

Maybe Cypher has repented and hes part of Dark Angels again (yeah, I know that doesn't sound right...)

Don't even joke about such things, since I'm making an entire army based around him and the Fallen.

Just read in the Orks thread here that chaos will be getting an update in '07. Might make sence with Cypher getting a new model, that chaos gets updated, and they add Cypher's rules in. /shrug.

So, Deathwing Termies now get fearless, and a slight discount on points but can only carry 1 heavy weapon and can blur the distinction between assault and normal termies? Did I get that? I suppose the 1 heavy weapon is to keep people from Assault Cannon whoring. Unfortunately, I was planning on becoming one of those Assault Cannon whores. O well.

I was really looking forward to seeing what they'd do with the DA to make them distinctive. Of course they have Deathwing and Ravenwing, but those pretty much worked like basic SM equivalents with a couple of special rules.

I like the new ravenwing rules. The characters and HQ seem fine. The Deathwing rules are an improvement, though now there seems to be no difference between them and regular troops when it comes to psychology, what with veteran sergeants all around.

Here's what's broke:
1) Only one troops choice. They should put scouts back here.

2) Mandatory Vet sgts and useless equipement (grenades, maybe bolt pistols !?!) for all squads. Expensive and virtually worthless for tac troops and dev troops who specialize in shooting, don't you think?
(Note: Exactly what does a bolt pistol add to the equation for most squads? Virtually nothing, except they can shoot once before they assault--decent, but it could have been easily covered with a "Bolter Drill" rule of some sort that would have distinguished the DA's quite nicely from regular marines, and would be quite appropriate considering their fluff)

3) Veteran squads are a cool concept (like 5-10 storm bolter or combi-bolter tactical marines could be quite nice) but goes against their fluff. All veterans belong to the Deathwing, and their are only 100 slots, and they always fight in Terminator Armor unless they're characters... so vet squads and vet sgts in every squad just doesn't make sense.

Here's what could have been:
1) Some cool ability for devastators.
2) No "gets hot" for plasma weapons, considering the DA access to specialized mnx equipment and their proficiency with the technology.
3) Special/heavy weapon options for Tacticals, or special rules concerning their firing rites that emphasize shooting and actually make them a bit better than average marine tacs when it comes to firepower. Bolt pistols add a small advantage when assaulting (shoot first), but DA's aren't supposed to be assaulting as much as standing there and mowing down the enemy, right? (Not really necessary to make the army characterful and effective, though)

So, eh, overall I'm less than excited about the new release. Though if I played a DW or RW army I'd be quite happy about the new options, I think. The new codex could have been SO much more characterful, balanced, and simpler with just a few minor mods, but I think GW went to far by "re-inventing" the Dark Angels army list. Too bad. I'm happier with the basic SM codex. No reason to consider buying all that new stuff. Bad for GW, good for me. ;) :)

Here's what could have been:
1) Some cool ability for devastators.
2) No "gets hot" for plasma weapons, considering the DA access to specialized mnx equipment and their proficiency with the technology.
3) Special/heavy weapon options for Tacticals, or special rules concerning their firing rites that emphasize shooting and actually make them a bit better than average marine tacs when it comes to firepower. Bolt pistols add a small advantage when assaulting (shoot first), but DA's aren't supposed to be assaulting as much as standing there and mowing down the enemy, right? (Not really necessary to make the army characterful and effective, though)
:)

All three of these suggestions are hideously broken and would spoil the dynamic of every game. Every squad would have a non overheating plasma gun and plasma cannon.
Marines are plenty accurate as it is taking it further is just making the game to bias.

And the first suggestion is the most unfair by miles! I mean, 'some cool ability'. Most armies would kill for some cool ability.

I have a question. If you take the DW or RW master as your HQ, does that mean you "have" to take the respective models as troops, or you "can"?

For example, if I take the GMoDW I can have terminators as my troops. But I can I also take some RW stuff as my fast attack choices?

The Deathwing rules are an improvement, though now there seems to be no difference between them and regular troops when it comes to psychology, what with veteran sergeants all around.


I'm sure I read somewhere that vet sergenats aren't automatically Deathwing now... and so all other squads aren't automatically fearless now. Can't remember where now though :(

I'm sure I read somewhere that vet sergenats aren't automatically Deathwing now... and so all other squads aren't automatically fearless now. Can't remember where now though :(
It has been discussed on several sites. But yes, this is correct.

Wow the DA are getting some nice stuff thats for sure which I am happy for (though more unhappy since I'll be having to fight it when it comes out >_< ). Though has anyone heard what the point cost of the troops will come to be around as from what I've heard they will only be 16pts. 1pt more for all that stuff is a dam good bargain and I don't think anyone should complain about that IMO.

Anyone else getting the feeling that DA are doing a 180 when it comes to morale? They used to be one of the most steadfast marine armies out there, with stubborn, intractable and TSKNF. Now they (normal marines, not Deathwing) no longer get morale bonuses. It's up in the air whether or not the Vet Sgts confer any ability to thier unit and if they do it will only be to half of them due to the combat squads ability. Essentially, half of our units will not have a Sgt. LD to rely on.

Perhaps but from what I can see the modus opperandi of the Dark Angels is going to be the fact that, thanks the "Combat Squad" rule, they are going to be able to field a larger number of scoring units than a normal spacemarine army will be able to field. Anyone playing against Dark Angels will often have to prioritise their shooting as the Dark Angels player will still have other units to do the job.

In addition to this these units are going to be better eqquiped than their standard eqquivilent making them a lot more tactically flexible as they can choose to either rapid fire with their bolters or fire their bolt pistols and charge into combat using their frag grenades to negate cover. The fact that they have Krak grenades also makes attacking vehicles less of an issue.

Ooooo! S4 shotguns! As it should be! So... awesome... S3 shotguns are bullcrap.

WTF! Only one heavy weapon in a Deathwing Terminator squad??? So I can't have 2 assault cannons in a squad of five. I figured that was a very good thing going for them. Damn. Can't have everything.

The 'combat squads' rule sounds really great. It's tactical and how a real squad operates, anyway. The shootier team provides cover fire while the assault team flanks and uses grenades and Individual Tactical Movement to move through the objective. The rules don't really reflect that stuff, but this makes it close.

I am closer and closer to forgetting about my Death Guard project and making a force from the chapter that I originally wanted to play when first getting into the hobby 4-5 years ago. I'm going to have to start hunting The Fallen and make them pay! I mean, make them confess their sins and therefore restore the honor of the chapter! Yeah, that's the ticket... 0_o

Any word on anything special having to do with plasma? To me, a DA army has tons of plasma! =D

All three of these suggestions are hideously broken and would spoil the dynamic of every game. Every squad would have a non overheating plasma gun and plasma cannon.
Marines are plenty accurate as it is taking it further is just making the game to bias.

And the first suggestion is the most unfair by miles! I mean, 'some cool ability'. Most armies would kill for some cool ability.

Some 'cool ability' should be beards! One point per model for an upgrade to beards! They could come with a plastic beard sprue.

Is it just me or the original info from Brim say that ALL DA are fearless, not just Deathwing? That kind of sucks actually, if they are taking away stubborn and intractable.

Also, on normal marine units, it's not entirely clear if they come bolters AND pistols, or if it's ..OR pistols.
If the come with both then that will bring a whole new level of tactics. If it's one or the other, then it's just the same as chaos marines, or scouts, you get to choose, but then that's all they have.

Also, on normal marine units, it's not entirely clear if they come bolters AND pistols, or if it's ..OR pistols.
If the come with both then that will bring a whole new level of tactics. If it's one or the other, then it's just the same as chaos marines, or scouts, you get to choose, but then that's all they have.

They come eqquiped with both bolters AND bolt pistols as well as frag and krak grenades giving you great tactical flexibility. ^_^

Reading over this post again, I am slightly alarmed at the Ravenwing rules that seem to allow you to take Land Speeder Tornados as troops choices. Bearing in mind that Land Speeder Tornados have Assault Cannons and they are separated from the Bike Attack squad, which can have Plasma Guns, plus the Ravenwing Support Squadrons, which will probably be fielded just like a regular Marine army at the moment. This isn't your average Space Marine GT army, oh no. This is your average Space Marine GT army made incredibly more mobile and tactically flexible; did I ever mention the fact that they have Assault Cannons on Troops and Plasma Guns mounted on bikes (to say nothing of Sammael himself)? Deathwing under the current edition is bad enough but all those people who complain about not being able to take two Assault Cannons; I can just see them moving on to different things...

You can take a landspeeder tornado as an attachment to a ravenwing Attack Squadron but you must take a full complement of 6 ravenwing bikers to do so.

This Codex sounds alarmingly 2nd edition in places, what with spliting into combat squads. Why them and no other Marine Chapter though? Maybe Cypher has repented and hes part of Dark Angels again (yeah, I know that doesn't sound right...)
When Fallen Angels repent- its for all of a few seconds until their execution.

The spliting squads looks really nice and the idea you can have a straight deathwing, ravenwing, normal Dark Angels, or a mix of all 3 is cool. I kinda wish the termis could have more people or more heavy weapons. Same with the comand squad wish there could be the usal 10.
All in all I was kinda hopeing for this a really diffrent list the the main i kinda like it so far i was kinda hoping for a new ablity for interrogator chaplains though.

You can take a landspeeder tornado as an attachment to a ravenwing Attack Squadron but you must take a full complement of 6 ravenwing bikers to do so.

The way I read it is that you have to take the six Ravenwing Bikers to get the Land Speeder and that they all count as a single unit entry, but that during the game you can deploy them as three (or two) separate scoring units, thus allowing you, nay urging you, to take Land Speeders as troop choices. Have I read this wrong? Does the Land Speeder need to be attached to the Ravenwing bikers? I pray that I am wrong...

The way I read it is that you have to take the six Ravenwing Bikers to get the Land Speeder and that they all count as a single unit entry, but that during the game you can deploy them as three (or two) separate scoring units, thus allowing you, nay urging you, to take Land Speeders as troop choices. Have I read this wrong? Does the Land Speeder need to be attached to the Ravenwing bikers? I pray that I am wrong...

A Ravenwing attack squadron consists of 3 bikers, including a veteran sergeant to begin with, which you can increase in size to 6 bikers (no more, no less) by paying for another 3 ravenwing bikers.
Now you can furthur add a Ravenwing attack bike as normal but if you do take 6 Ravenwing bikers then you can take a Ravenwing landspeeder tornado.
Now the bikes, attack bike and landspeeder tornado will all count as a single fast attack choice (Or troops if you take the Master of the Ravenwing, and who would not.) however they can be split up into four scoring units of two sqauds of three bikes, the attack bike and the landspeeder tornado, all of which may move independantly of the others.
It is sort of a Ravenwing version of the 'Combat Squad' rule.

Personally i think many of these rules (particularly the 5/10 man rule, and especially the only 1 assault cannon in a termie squad) take most of the flexibility out of DA in terms of army selection.

Why them and no other Marine Chapter though?

Theres rumours flying all over warseer about a Space Marines: Redux that feature many of the DA changes (5/10 man squads, 1 Heavy weapon in a 5-man termi squad etc).

A Ravenwing attack squadron consists of 3 bikers, including a veteran sergeant to begin with, which you can increase in size to 6 bikers (no more, no less) by paying for another 3 ravenwing bikers.
Now you can furthur add a Ravenwing attack bike as normal but if you do take 6 Ravenwing bikers then you can take a Ravenwing landspeeder tornado.
Now the bikes, attack bike and landspeeder tornado will all count as a single fast attack choice (Or troops if you take the Master of the Ravenwing, and who would not.) however they can be split up into four scoring units of two sqauds of three bikes, the attack bike and the landspeeder tornado, all of which may move independantly of the others.
It is sort of a Ravenwing version of the 'Combat Squad' rule.

Sounds like I'm on the right track so far...and this doesn't strike you as being disturbing in the slightest?

Personally i think many of these rules (particularly the 5/10 man rule, and especially the only 1 assault cannon in a termie squad) take most of the flexibility out of DA in terms of army selection.



Theres rumours flying all over warseer about a Space Marines: Redux that feature many of the DA changes (5/10 man squads, 1 Heavy weapon in a 5-man termi squad etc).

Yeah I saw this well. I do not think it bodes well to be honest.

My concern with the new rules is that there will be little room for adjustments when building your lists. If you are over/under points you can no longer adjust by adding or dropping marines, as they only come in groups of 5 now. And while I appreciate the "free" grenades and such, we can no longer give those out to fill points or cut them to save.

They come eqquiped with both bolters AND bolt pistols as well as frag and krak grenades giving you great tactical flexibility. ^_^


So tell me if I'm right in what this means.

My squad is equiped with both bolters AND bolt pistols. I stand there and shoot with my bolters, like any other tactical squad. My opponent moves up with an assaulting squad. When they get within 12" I can on my next turn, declare they are pulling out their pistols, moving 6", shooting, and then assaulting the enemy unit.

This could be a whole new way for a marine army to fight. And frankly is a really cool, unique thing for the DA.

The next question remains, will they count as having a close combat weapon with that pistol, or do they still only get 1 attack using the pistol? Still though, getting the charge on someone else, after shooting them, you get the extra attack for charging, denying them that extra attack.

Thoughts?

The next question remains, will they count as having a close combat weapon with that pistol, or do they still only get 1 attack using the pistol? Still though, getting the charge on someone else, after shooting them, you get the extra attack for charging, denying them that extra attack.

Thoughts?

It is exactly as you say but they do not count as having two ccw. They are just like any other tactical marine in that they still only get 2 attacks on the charge (1 basic and +1 for charging.).

It is exactly as you say but they do not count as having two ccw. They are just like any other tactical marine in that they still only get 2 attacks on the charge (1 basic and +1 for charging.).


That's still pretty cool, and something unique to the DA for sure. Makes for some interesting tactics.

I wonder if you would be able to model with as a combat squad with CCW and pistol, then maybe a bolter strapped on, and say suddenly the assault squad decides to stand still and shoot bolters at 24" or something. ;-)

That's still pretty cool, and something unique to the DA for sure. Makes for some interesting tactics.

I wonder if you would be able to model with as a combat squad with CCW and pistol, then maybe a bolter strapped on, and say suddenly the assault squad decides to stand still and shoot bolters at 24" or something. ;-)

Possibly but I do not believe the assualt squad can have bolters.

Possibly but I do not believe the assualt squad can have bolters.

Well when i say assault squad, I'm refering to normal foot marines with pistols and CCW. But if the gear on tac squads is just bolter and bolt pistols, no CCW, then I guess not.

Has anyone read about the contents of the Ravenwing army?

Will they still have hunting the Fallen special rule?

Will they still have hunting the Fallen special rule?

As far as I am aware, no.

...especially the only 1 assault cannon in a termie squad) take most of the flexibility out of DA in terms of army selection.
On the contrary. DW gains Fast Attack (Ravenwing) and/or Heavy Support (Armoury vehicles, devs) options – both areas currently either non-existant or expensive.

The compulsory GMotDW is only around 130 points, this combined with smaller 5-man squads will (might) make it easier to field a second HQ as required.

The loss of a ascannon per squad is not good granted, but is hardly the death-knell some think it might be. Whilst the return of Lightning claws or thunder hammer/storm shield termies into shooty squads is welcome.

Z

My friend has about 5K points worth of Dark Angels that he "stores" in my gameroom. I've taken to playing them recently (needing a break from my Guard, Ultramarines, and Daemonhunters), most often against a Black Templars friend of mine. I just can't bring the forces of Guilliman against the forces of Dorn. It just feels...wrong to me somehow, but I digress.

Looking over these rumors, I think the Dark Angels are about to become worthy of their legends. I eagerly look forward to the release of this codex.