Gday,

Not sure if this is old news, but here goes.

I was talking to a Melbourne GW staff member, and he was "pretty sure" (never give too much away...) GW are working on 4 army books right now, all at the same time. They were: High elves, Vampire counts, Dark elves and Skaven.

Obviously, they'll release them all on different dates, but for those itching for these particular books, they should be just around the corner (although, a GW corner is much longer then the average....)

Regards, Tim

Sounds pretty good, dark elves ,skaven , vamp counts definatly deserve it.
What melbourne GW did u go to ?

Melbourne central. Used to anyway, now i just club at ringwood

yeah, dark elves need to be buffed up, skaven need to be nerfed down a lot and VC need some little change.

If Dark Elves need anything it isnt buffed up.

They need new models 7 point spearmen annoy the christ out of me, for an Empire Spear men you add 2 more points and you have got a DE who is WS4 and BS4. and a Zombie is 6pts? Dont make me laugh

High Elves Need it more than anyone I think and let me reassure you Im not a High Elf fan, their list is terrible, 10 pt spearmen? Terrible models, Outdated Codex, Intrigue at the Court, Crap Great Eagle Models... the list goes on, I think that high elves should be next, then VC's, then balance Skaven,

Does any one know if there going to remake chaos dwarfs at or just let them fade away

i never trust anything gw-staff says about upcoming releases, they usually don't know whitch army is coming next... check warseer if u want RELIABLE info

If Dark Elves need anything it isnt buffed up.

They need new models 7 point spearmen annoy the christ out of me, for an Empire Spear men you add 2 more points and you have got a DE who is WS4 and BS4. and a Zombie is 6pts? Dont make me laugh


Well, youde be in the very vast minority there.....

BS is no good to a spearmen, so theres no point mentioning that. Zombies are unbreakable and belong to a TOTALY different army (they do explain the points for undead in the GW website...)

So al they have is ws4, i5, m5. For Spearmen, its worth around 2 points a model.

The biggest drama is the DE ELITE units. Black guard get no use, cauldron of blood sees no use, Hydras need to be srubburn, or something, CoK's needs points reduction or beefing.

Regards Tim

the next 3 will be high elves, skellies and chaos, chaos i know has lots of new plastic coming out for the release

I play both DE and VC and i can tell you that DE are not over powered. I will say that there core units are great. And the reason there spearmen have such a high BS is because they can become Xbow men. The problem is with the special units. You have witch elves who are in desperate need of a 6+ward withought the cauldron.(a cauldron that no one uses) We have calvary that cost the same as a fully upgraded HE silverhelm but were loosing -2M and have to fight with stupidity and all we get out of the deal is a mount with S4. Then for rare you have a war hydra that ive never seen used, Black Guard that are too over priced, and of course the Cauldron.

The VC are good except that its too easy to watch your generals unit loose combat a couple times and this big bad Vampire dies to combat resolution. Also i would like to see neco's and Dire wolves trade in there fear to become living.

i had herd that chaos for fantsy is going to be sync'd up with the 40k release (rather doubtful i know but possible) so that might be near the end of this year.

But don't forget your cavalry cause fear, that's a huge deal when factoring in their cost. Yes they suffer from stupidity but they are testing at 9's most likely. Also high elves are 10 pts per model but do benefit from the fight in 3 ranks rule which is huge as they are almost as good as pikeman and have a comparable save and points cost plus a higher WS and I and LD.

What's so overpowered about skaven anyway? Their weapons teams aren't hidden anymore, you can eliminate them easily now. Even if this wasn't the case, this is only one way to make an army, a very boring one at that, it's only one clan that does it and then only a few players who want a SAD army. If it's about the magic then skaven are nothing special, lizardmen are even better in the magic phase and certain other armies can be pretty devastating too. I'm hoping to start a clan eshin army very soon and I'm already worried that they won't be able to beat most of my enemies, I would be very disappointed if they were nerfed. I'd have to pick a new army then, despite the ultra-cool imagery of ninja-rats.

:ninja:

How is Chaos going to be changed? Besides probably including the cannon in the army book, I don't see too many changes that would come out good for us chaos players (marauders will probably rise by one or two points). Maybe they would improve the exalted daemons so more people would use them....hmmm:|

I reckon High elves should be the first to change, they are so overpowered! No offense to established HE players but i think they must be easy to win with. The spearmen are pretty badly overpowered, as the 3-ranks rule makes them nigh on indestructable, especially when charging cavalry into them (as I would know being a Brets player). At least make them like 2 points more expensive to compensate for this rule?

I reckon High elves should be the first to change, they are so overpowered! No offense to established HE players but i think they must be easy to win with. The spearmen are pretty badly overpowered, as the 3-ranks rule makes them nigh on indestructable, especially when charging cavalry into them (as I would know being a Brets player). At least make them like 2 points more expensive to compensate for this rule?

Please tell me you're joking! Pretty much everything in the HE book is overpriced. The spears, rather than going up in price should drop in price, unless they get some new rules. They're by no means indestructible, sure they get a lot of attacks but they're low strength and bouce off a lot of good tougness/good armour troops. Plus, when you attack them you can kill them with a stiff breeze. Thats all well and good with goblins because they're cheap, but every dead elf is much more of a blow.

Head over to any HE forum if you don't believe me. They're considered hard enough to win with as it is without making everything even more expensive.

You were joking right?

Right?...

I reckon High elves should be the first to change, they are so overpowered! No offense to established HE players but i think they must be easy to win with. The spearmen are pretty badly overpowered, as the 3-ranks rule makes them nigh on indestructable, especially when charging cavalry into them (as I would know being a Brets player). At least make them like 2 points more expensive to compensate for this rule?

Ancalagon's very right. Your either a jealous player who has lost to much or your just not familiar with the HE.

There are loads of crap that needs changing in the HE book... archers/phoenix guard/lothern sea guard are the biggest problems. For such a shooty race HE archers are poor... probably the poorest archers in the whole game point for point IMO.

Yeah, they can't stand up to all-melee regiments like chaos warriors, and their magic can be outdone as well, they need better archery.

From the lack of replies to my post and the evidence available to me, I think I can justifiably claim that skaven are in fact not overpowered and that was just a bitter ranting of someone who got pwned by a powergaming clan skyre army.

:ninja:

Well, youde be in the very vast minority there.....

BS is no good to a spearmen, so theres no point mentioning that. Zombies are unbreakable and belong to a TOTALY different army (they do explain the points for undead in the GW website...)

So al they have is ws4, i5, m5. For Spearmen, its worth around 2 points a model.

The biggest drama is the DE ELITE units. Black guard get no use, cauldron of blood sees no use, Hydras need to be srubburn, or something, CoK's needs points reduction or beefing.

Regards Tim

Spot on there mate, I totally agree.
Lets not forget that Dark Elves dont even HAVE a Noble/Highborn model :cry: (only sorceresses)
Also, Warriors are the ONLY plastic unit they have.. :|. Our magic items are few.. & cr*p..
Our heavy cavalry is reasonably slow & the 'stupidity' rule is complete JOKE for an 'elitist', sinister elven army..

I dont think 7 points is too cheap for spearmen, Elves rely on alot flanking attacks so we need an affordable but good infantry unit to hold enemy units in place. If we had to fork out 200+ points for out 'throw-away' units, we'd have nothing left for our important elite units & expensive magic.
Its also fluffy that Elves be more skilled than humans, so comparing them to empire spearmen isnt accurate, elves SHOULD be naturally (no cost) better than humans.

One of Dark Elves strong points was magic, but that got nerfed in 7th Ed. So now DE's are a real under-dog in the WHFB world, at least for those who arent highly skilled with them.

In conclusing I basically think DE's are the most deserving. Biased? yes. Untrue? no.

/End rant.. that felt good :shifty:

Cheers

Well, youde be in the very vast minority there.....

BS is no good to a spearmen, so theres no point mentioning that. Zombies are unbreakable and belong to a TOTALY different army (they do explain the points for undead in the GW website...)

So al they have is ws4, i5, m5. For Spearmen, its worth around 2 points a model.

The biggest drama is the DE ELITE units. Black guard get no use, cauldron of blood sees no use, Hydras need to be srubburn, or something, CoK's needs points reduction or beefing.

Regards Tim

Spot on there mate, I totally agree.
Lets not forget that Dark Elves dont even HAVE a Noble/Highborn model :cry: (only sorceresses)
Also, Warriors are the ONLY plastic unit they have.. :|. Our magic items are few.. & cr*p..
Our heavy cavalry is reasonably slow & the 'stupidity' rule is complete JOKE for an 'elitist', sinister elven army..

I dont think 7 points is too cheap for spearmen, Elves rely on alot flanking attacks so we need an affordable but good infantry unit to hold enemy units in place. If we had to fork out 200+ points for out 'throw-away' units, we'd have nothing left for our important elite units & expensive magic.
Its also fluffy that Elves be more skilled than humans, so comparing them to empire spearmen isnt accurate, elves SHOULD be naturally (no cost) better than humans.

One of Dark Elves strong points was magic, but that got nerfed in 7th Ed. So now DE's are a real under-dog in the WHFB world, at least for those who arent highly skilled with them.

In conclusion I basically think DE's are the most deserving. Biased? yes. Untrue? no.

/End rant.. that felt good :shifty:

Cheers

Its also fluffy that Elves be more skilled than humans, so comparing them to empire spearmen isnt accurate, elves SHOULD be naturally (no cost) better than humans.


I never even played fantasy but that comment struck me as... not so well thought out (euphemisms for the win!). That's like saying a space marine is vastly superior in fluff to a guardsman, so they should be the same cost. Before you say that has sod all to do with anything: like you, I just compared two core units from different armies.

I never even played fantasy but that comment struck me as... not so well thought out (euphemisms for the win!). That's like saying a space marine is vastly superior in fluff to a guardsman, so they should be the same cost. Before you say that has sod all to do with anything: like you, I just compared two core units from different armies.

Ok, While I can agree it shouldnt be at no cost, this just strikes me as another attempt to stir me up & im not going to but into it..

Anyway, the first reason i stated was the main one. The racial superiority thing was just a fluff issue.
I also think the 7 points is because they die in droves against anything decent.
They are just a road-block unit with no real combat prowess/power.. So they really shouldnt cost a lot simply because they are Elves, which for fluff reasons HAVE to have high movement, initiative & WS. Since none of those really change that they are a fairly weak unit.
I think High Elf spearmen should be 9 points. (-1 from current)

Back on topic. I think all 4 armies have a strong case for being re-done, just that Dark Elves seem to be in more dire need of one than the others.

cheers

Edit by Cheredanine, issue dealt with

XXX Edit by Cheredanine - Issue dealt withXXX

Also Sophia have some rep for standing up for Tim.

The last time HEs and VC were released was at or around the same time, wasn't it? I was looking at my old White Dwarfs and found where VC had just come out. HEs and VC were both being highlighted. So it makes sense that they'd do so again.

As for DEs, yes, they badly need a revamping. Locally, I don't see many people playing it, even though it seems like a good army.

I was dorking around on the GW website yesterday and found an official update to some of the DE stuff that came from druchii.net. How long has that been around?

The last time HEs and VC were released was at or around the same time, wasn't it? I was looking at my old White Dwarfs and found where VC had just come out. HEs and VC were both being highlighted. So it makes sense that they'd do so again.

Orcs and Empire -> Dwarfs -> Skaven -> Vampires -> High and Dark Elves -> Chaos -> Other stuff (for fun, my guess: Lizards -> Tomb Kings -> Beasts -> Ogres -> Bretonnia -> Sissy Elves)

The non-parenthetical stuff is right, I'm reasonably sure.

It stands to reason GW will follow this line again, at least loosely.

I also think the 7 points is because they die in droves against anything decent.
They are just a road-block unit with no real combat prowess/power.. So they really shouldnt cost a lot simply because they are Elves, which for fluff reasons HAVE to have high movement, initiative & WS. Since none of those really change that they are a fairly weak unit.
I think High Elf spearmen should be 9 points. (-1 from current)


ohhh Muffin,

Ther isnt a single wood elf unit that is under 12 points. You even have heavy armor in your army. Dont come crying to me about you having expensive troops, im not even allowed to take a shield for MY spearmen....:O

(im being sarcastic, and not harsh btw....:O)

Anyways, I think all of those armies are due for a tune up, i just wish the chaos dwarves came back. With the new gritty style of warhammer, they could become a really cool army.