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I try and put together a magic list and a non-magic list for all of the armies I have. I started with the non-magic list (and I hated it) and here is my attempt at a magic list. Please criticize and comment.
Beast Lord: Great Weapon, Heavy Armor, Horn of the Great Hunt, Mark of Tzeench: 277 pts
Wargor: Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armor, Preyseeker Banner, Mark of Tzeench: 184 pts
Bray Shaman : Staff of Darkoth, Level 2: 135 pts
Beast Herd(in ambush, with shaman and bsb): 11 gor, 8 Ungor, Champion, Musician, 2 hand weapons: 134 pts
Beast Herd: 12 gor, 6 ungor, 2 hand weapons: 143 pts
Beast Herd: 12 gor, 6 ungor, h. weapon & shield: 143 pts
Bestigor: 19 full cmd: 258 pts
Chariot: Mark of Tzeench: 105 pts
Warhounds: 7: 42 pts
Centigors: 8, shields: 152 pts
Chaos Spawn: 2: 120 pts
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth: great weapon, light armour: 306
I wasn't sure whether to take the preyseeker, vitrolic totem, or warbanner for the BSB but after failing the leadership test today in 2 games I decided to go with the preyseeker.
My cousin plays a lot of beastmen, so having faced these annoying guys on more than one occasion maybe I can give a couple of friendly pieces of advice.
It looks like you are going for the all magic approach, tzeench, therefore why have you put a shaman in the ambush. Leave him out of it, as that will reduce your power/dispel dice.
I would also get rid of something, possibly the centigors to allow another beast heard to be put in ambush. There is nothing more irritating then having 2 units of 20 appear from behind you in turn 2!!
Hope this helps
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The shaman is in ambush because he can use the staff of darkoth to get a free charge. The only magic user I leave out of ambush is the lord. I figure at most on turn 1 I will cast 2 spells as most of the other spells have too short of a range to be useful from lore of Tzeench. So I have 7 power dice for 2 or at very most 3 spells. Before the ambush. So that isn't much of a problem. The centigors I really like. However having another ambushing unit would be nice too I only really need the ambush to get war machines and archers. Then I can use some spells to soften them and then the great speed and manuvering to win combats. (It works in theory)
It's a good army generally, Tzeentch is a good choice for beastmen because if the characters accommpany the beastherds they get 360 degree arc of sight for their spellcasting, which is much better than the limited arc that mortal characters in units usually get! A few thoughts though;
1. Why not give the Beastlord Chaos Armour? It would provide a bit more protection than just heavy armour. Plus, make sure he really needs that great weapon (if you're playing against heavily armoured enemy for example), you shouldn't force him to strike last unless it's absolutely necessary. If you don't need it, give him the Enchanted shield as well, which when combined with chaos armour gives him a healthy 2+ save!
2. All gors in all beastherds might as well have two hand weapons. Shields are next to useless and they really need as many attacks as possible since they are still only strength 3. Well done on not giving the ungors shields! Waste of time really...
3. You've forgot to mention that two of the beastherds have full command.
4. The Shaggoth is a good choice, just be careful how you use him. He is far from invincible and is best used to support the attack of your main units rather than race off and attack things on his own. For example, he is unlikely to win against a ranked up combat unit if he charges them in the front (even though he causes terror), simply because he's only got 5-6 attacks maximum and he'll get beaten by rank bonuses and outnumbering.
Also, as with the beastlord, make sure he needs the great weapon, because forcing him to strike last can be disastrous! If you're facing lots of low-average toughness troops with little armour, then an additional hand weapon is much better. Only take the great weapon if you know that you're going to be facing lots of heavily armoured enemies (like Bretonnians, cavalry-heavy Empire and Dwarfs).
Otherwise, a good army list, I like it!
"Peace, through superior firepower."
I really like the chaos armour with enchanted shield idea. Now the fun converting of a painted model begins. DAMN YOU AND YOUR GOOD IDEAS lol j/k
Well its a great list but I can't help but feel that the shaggoth doesn't belong
I'd get more troops, more ambushers, and more armor for the lord.
But aside from that its a great list
"Heresy is like a garden weed, it won't stop feeding until you... BURN THE WHOLE DAMN GARDEN WITH A FLAMER, BURN IT, BURN IT TO HELL!!!!!" "Is there a wittle puppy in the garden? ITS A DAEMON! BURN IT!"
I agree with bald inquisitor on the Shaggoth. He's just too vulnerable. For those points you could be getting another ambushing unit and chariot or something.
I imagine a carefully used and deployed Shaggoth could be useful but against a lot of armies (I play Dwarfs) he's going to be a target for heavy artillery and then he's going to bounce off of ranked troops who will win in CR.
That said, I can't imagine anything other than a lance of Brets being more devestating on a flank or rear charge. The only problem with that is that you'll have to leave him open to the artillery for two or three turns to set up the flank. He may not survive that, six wounds or not.
Have you ever thought about minitaurs? they are both cheaper in points and in my experience more devastating than a shaggoth will ever be. however i use mine marked with nurgle so they get that scaly skin save but they should last untill combat when used right having more wounds than a shaggoth. be sure to give them great weapons if there going to replace your shaggoth though.
can you get chaos armour and the enchanted sheild?
i thought both were magic armour and you cant take two pieces of magic armour
therefore meaning you couldnt take both, i might be wrong but thats what i thought
good list though, well balanced, a good amount of herds
lets agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours are
The Enchanted shield specifically states that it can be combined with magic and/or mundane armour. So there's no problem.Partly, that's correct, he can be vulnerable, but only if you're dumb enough to leave him out in the open. If you stand him in full view of an artillery battery, he's quite obviously going to get shot at. But, even a standard battlefield should have enough terrain on it to provide him with cover for most of his trek to the enemy lines. He's best used on a flank, where he can stay out of as many fire arcs as possible. Though it is true that against very shooty armies like Empire and Dwarfs, the Shaggoth is sometimes best left in the miniatures case...Originally Posted by sammay23Minotaurs.Originally Posted by Tan-BotsMinotaurs are great, and yes they are cheaper, but they aren't immune to psychology, they don't cause terror and they'll never have a better armour save than a Shaggoth. Plus the Shaggoth is faster, tougher, stronger and has better leadership. Used right, a Shaggoth is awesomely destructive and much better than three or four minotaurs. But used badly, it's just a complete waste of 300+ points.Originally Posted by Tan-Bots
Minotaurs don't always need great weapons, it depends on what you plan on attacking with them. If knights or dwarf ironbreakers are your targets, then yes, great weapons are essential. If regular infantry (of most races) are the intended victims, then an additional hand weapon for more attacks is a much better option. Think carefully before you just hand your minotaurs great weapons, do they actually need them?
Last edited by Tzeentch_Lord; June 26th, 2005 at 22:27. Reason: Had loads more to say...
"Peace, through superior firepower."