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Beastlord - Horn of the Great Hunt, Armour of Damnation, Enchanted Shield, Maul of Might (Sword of might but a beastlord with a big maul is just cool) Mark of Tzeentch -325
Shaman - Staff of Darkoth, Chaos Armour, Talisman of Protection -160
Wargor - Crimson Armour of Dargan, Spell Familiar, Mark of Tzeentch, Great Weapon, Shield -171
Wargor - Battle Standard Bearer, Prey Seeker Standard - 114
2 x Beastherd 12 gor, 8 ungor (full command) - 302
1 x Beastherd 11 gor, 8 ungor (musician, champion, and Battle Standard bearer, put in ambush) - 134
1 x 18 Bestigor Full Command - Banner of Wrath - 296
5 x Screamers of Tzeench - 165
3 x Chaos Spawn - 180
1 x 8 Centigors with shields - 152
A few comments, I kind of wanted the Chaos Spawn to have the mark of tzeench but 45 points and buyind new models made me think otherwise. But it would be cool. The goal is to hit them with magic while you march to them and then smoke them in combat. Tzeentch works great for the ambush. You cast all your Tzeench Spells first and the bound spell and then you hit them with the staff of darkoth. They are going to be taking some shots from somewhere. Screamers hit up archers/war machines/ independent characters/ and if those aren't a problem they make lovely fear causing flank chargers. Also, you can dance them over elves with missle weapons and using the slashing attack the elves get no stand and shoot and drop like flies until a panic test fails or they are just too useless to do anything.
Last edited by The Green Knight; December 16th, 2005 at 01:22.
The characters look good, but I notice that the last Wargor doesn't have a Mark of Tzeentch, I assume this is due to lack of points, since Army Battle Standard Bearers are allowed to be Tzeentch Sorcerers too. Also, I like the Maul of Might idea, more appropriate for a Beastlord that a sword.Originally Posted by The Green KnightCore units also look good, although one thing I've found is that if a character is going to be leading a Herd, the herd doesn't need a Foe-Render as well. Having a unit champion is nice (to refuse challenges, etc), but it is expensive. The main reason for having the Foe-Render is for his improved leadership, but when a character is leading the unit, that's not necessary.Originally Posted by The Green Knight
The Bestigors are a nice large unit, but reconsider the Banner of Wrath. I've not had much luck with Bound spell banners, and I'd rather spend the points elsewhere.Excellent special unit choices, although two spawn are usually enough. They can be great when you roll high enough for their movement and attacks, but if you don't, they can easily get left behind and do nothing for the whole game. Not used centigors myself, but they do seem quite good, as long as they don't go Stupid on you! Be sure to get the most out of their ability to go at full pace through woods, it's the kind of thing your opponent will usually overlook.Originally Posted by The Green Knight
[QUOTE=The Green Knight]A few comments, I kind of wanted the Chaos Spawn to have the mark of tzeench but 45 points and buyind new models made me think otherwise. But it would be cool.
Even if you can afford it, don't bother with the Tzeentch spawn upgrade. I've explained why on some other thread, but in short, I've used it myself many times and come to the conclusion that, at best, the spawn's fire breath might kill a couple of models during the game, if you're lucky. Honestly, that's about all you'll get out of it.That's exactly their job! Although be careful of charging any other characters other than wizards. Because Screamers are skirmishers and on large bases, you'll only get two screamers in base contact and the only combat resolution you'll get is +1 for outnumbering and any wounds you do. Hopefully you'll kill the character outright, but if the character wins the fight, your screamers are in real trouble! The same applies to War machines, you should have few problems attacking the crew, but if there's a character with them, you might have some difficulty. Also, be wary of Dwarf crew, they are tougher than most and that can be annoying!Originally Posted by The Green KnightYou can do this, but there's two things to bear in mind when using the slashing attack on weak missile troops like elves or men. First, the slashing attack is weak, only one S3 hit per screamer, so you're only likely to kill two or three at most. Since most missile units are at least 10 strong, you'd have to kill at least three models to force a panic test, then they'd have to fail it, this is unlikely.Originally Posted by The Green Knight
Second, bows are not move-or-fire weapons, so if the target unit does flee, you'll have an entire unit of archers who will turn around and open fire on your precious screamers in their next turn! Not good!
Although they probably won't do too much damage (due to the screamer's T4, 2 wounds and daemonic ward save), you still might lose one, or worse, two. You can't afford to lose any screamers to bowfire, while the archers can afford to lose a couple of model to your slashing attack.
Hope my thoughts are useful to you!
"Peace, through superior firepower."
You also forget that they would suffer -1 for moving and -1 for skirmishers. so at bs 4 they need 5's to hit and 5's to wound. Then I get a 5+ save. So a unit of size 10 on average 2-3 will hit. Then 1 will wound. And I get a save. They also then waste shooting that could have been dispersed against units I need. So in short, not only have I accounted for them turning around. But I count on it. If they don't turn around they get a rear charge against them. If they do turn around, they only have 1 legal target with an average chance of dealing 1 wound that gets a save. I'll take that chance. You are right about taking them against characters. They don't fair well.Originally Posted by Tzeentch Lord
As for the foe-render I will always take them in units regardless of characters or not. If I don't put him in there I need to have a character with them and also as you mentioned the challenge issue. Challenges were underused in our gaming group until an undead player had his Stirgoi forced to accept a challenge with a champion of a unit and then losing combat considerably even by smiting the champion. Where he could have won had he made his attacks against the unit.
The battle standard bearer originally had the mark of tzeench and I only had him the general and the shaman. But I droped the mark because it is 70 points stuck in a model that can't really be armoured and could be easily taking out by regular troops. (You will notice the other models all have a chance of a 2+ armour save. Or were supposed (edits post and adds a shield). Another reason is because the army standard bearer goes into ambush and I didn't want to waste the power dice and spell casting in turn 1. Which leads me to the banner of wrath. It is a free d6 str 4 magic missle. Even if they dispell it at power level 4 I believe. Thats less dice they have for the other 10 power dice I am using.
I know this will make me sound dumb...but...hear me out. I do occasionally like to use the spawn as screens. And here is why. Granted they only have 3 wounds. But they are T5 and unbreakable. So when there is a weaker close combat (as in str and number of attacks) they probably won't be able to take it out in 1 turn. So he will get to attack and you will get alternate charges on the unit the next turn. The speed hurts. But with tzeench and some speed things like ambush, screamers, and centigors you can move and shoot accross the table and take out the units that will give you distance trouble.
I do very much value your input. So please tell me if you disagree with these concepts at all. They have worked for me...however, it has been my experience that with games like this, being good is sometimes a clever cloak for getting lucky.
You do have some very good points there Green Knight, it seems to me that you are one of those rare breeds among players in that you actually know how to use your troops intelligently!I hadn't forgotten, I've experienced it myself! Archers can get lucky and kill off a Screamer even with all the unlikely rolls they'd need to make to do it. This is why I much prefer to use the slashing attack against units of Crossbows and Handguns. Since these are move-or-fire weapons, if the Screamers overfly a unit of them, they can either stand still to fire in the next turn, then get rear charged, or they can turn to face the Screamers and lose their chance to shoot. :shifty:Originally Posted by The Green KnightI suspected you had good reason to leave off the Mark of Tzeentch. Although the Mark of Undivided that he currenly has is still very useful, keeping the Battle Standard Bearer from running off himself is always a good thing!Originally Posted by The Green KnightA fair point, although I still don't like Bound Spells, especially those that cost quite a lot of points. You could get another 7 Gors for the cost of that banner.Originally Posted by The Green KnightThat's okay, but I don't believe there are any rules in Warhammer about having to target the nearest enemy (either for shooting or charging, unless you're frenzied of course...), and since the base of a spawn doesn't obscure that much, they aren't the best of screens. Their random movement may also be a problem because if you roll low too many times (and I do, all the time!), they're likely to be overtaken by the troops they're supposed to be screening! Doh!Originally Posted by The Green Knight
I usually use my spawns as speedbumps, their multiple wounds, high toughness and unbreakable ability is perfect for holding up strong units, allowing you to get flank (possibly even rear) charges with other units (such as beastherds!). Mine have held up everything from Trolls and Tomb Kings cavalry, to Spirit Hosts and Saurus Warriors!
"Peace, through superior firepower."