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Thread: Tzeentch army

  1. #1
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    Tzeentch army

    Tzeentch army
    Beastlord* w/tz (lvl4spell) Black Maul, Chaos Armor Crwn of Horns chariot
    Wargor* hvy armor, shld Sword of Might Gorebanner Tz mage
    Wargor* hvy armor, shld Preyseeker, Pelt Dark Young Tz mage
    Chaos Ogres x4 SB hvy armor, shld, Gt wpns
    Minotaur x3 lt armor w/SB Gt wpns Tzunit
    Minotaur x3 lt armor w/SB xhd wpns Tzunit
    Shaggoth lt armor, gt wpn, Tz mage
    5x wolves*
    5x wolves*
    5x wolves*
    BeastHerd* 12Gor(2hd wpn)/7Ungor (w/2xwargors) SB & Musician Tzunit
    Dragon Ogres x3 lt armor, xhd wpns
    12pts left over

    That gives me 13 power dice and 10 dispel dice (I think) The magic should overpower anyone elses magic phase and I can just cast 4 red fires and then maybe some green fire (they can hack themselves apart) or indigo or maybe one of their heroes will fall to violet fire. Orrrrr, maybe I miscast my self to death.

    I was thinking one huge raiding party with. they show up onthe scene turn two and my two wargors cast spells on war machines and shooters, then charge whoever is left on their turn. Having a big bunch (12 attacks on five wide or 10 on a four base wide CC) they should roll over and overrun into whatever is left. I would also like to get them on the rear of someone so that the rest of my army has a chance to run down and swallow the rest of his army.
    The wolves are for shielding the minotaurs and ogres or dragonogres.

    Should I split the ambushing party into two? If I do, I have to find another unit if Im going to keep both wargors ambushing. Should I dump great weapons on the wargors? I have some play room, if I need to swap 2hand wpns for great wpns for some of the bigger units.


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  3. #2
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    I actually don't think you army is legal. Its been a few months since I've played my beasts but I haven't heard of any major changes. I don't think wolves count as core. So I think you need more beast heards. Which you would want anyway. I don't think you can have two battle standard bearers in an army. I could be wrong on that part too but I'm pretty sure not. Also if they have magic standards they cannot use any other magic items.

    Now, aside from the illegal parts There are a lot of things I would tweak as well. I also play Tzeentch beasts. I actually play them with quite a bit of success (which is good cause my brets and my wood elves always get there behinds handed to them).

    Starting with characters. I like your character selection. 3 is a good number. Once you add a fourth it gets to be a huge point sink. Don't put your general in a chariot. I've been down that road and trust me it is not one you want to go down. Give one of your wargors a staff of darkoth and plop him in an ambushing beast herd. I would smack the other two in a different beast herd...that walks behind a third beast herd for screening. As far as equipment goes. All of them should have a 2+ armour save. And your general a ward. Remember you can use equipment from the hordes of chaos book, which means they all can get a form of chaos armour (there are three or so of them in HOC). That should round out your characters.

    As mentioned earlier, I think you are way light on the beast herds. You should have a minimum of 3 x 20 heards. If not bigger. Full cmd as well. Take either a unit of ogres or a unit of minotaurs. Otherwise you have got some big point sinks that will get smoked by any missle fire and usually in close combat too. Remember the game is based on combat resolution which requires numbers and bonuses. Look at a unit of 4 minotaurs going against a unit of 25-30 basic humans, let along a more stalwart for like orcs or dwarves. Monster units like that should be used as support units which are designed to dramatically sway the combat to your favor. Not as regular block troops. I would also try and avoid the shaggoth (although I do play with him cause the model is cool) He never really makes his points back although he can be effective in the a "pay not attention to this shaman behind the curtain" kind of way. I also have a personal vendetta with the dogs. They never do anything more me. If you are going to run them, you have got to do so in larger numbers. Because even bret peasant bowmen will make them flee from missle fire, but if you have a unit of ten, you will force them to be shot at for multiple turns and that leaves your beasts to march across the field. Which leads me to my next point. A little tactical advice. Do not be afraid to take your characters into combat. Yes they are point heavy and that is not usually what you like doing with magic users, but remember they are still beasts and its in their nature. Also, not to be superstitious or crazy...but they really seem to enjoy and play and roll better when they think they are going to get some action.

    So good hunting.
    Last edited by The Green Knight; October 29th, 2006 at 05:48.

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    Agree with Green Knight, elements of the army are illegal.

    Although Warhounds ARE core units, they do not count towards your minimums, so you still need more cores. Right now you have a chariot and a beast herd, still need one more. Interestingly, if you replace your beast lord with a doombull, you will wind up with a legal list in that regard as the minos beome core!

    Second, you can't mark your beast herd. They simply can't carry marks.

    Third, in order to make your shaggy into a tzeentch sorcerer he will need to be a shaggy champion, and thus take up a lord choice.

    Fourth, your Wargor can not take a magic standard unless he is the Battle Standard Bearer (which I assume he is). If he is, then he can't take a shield, and the banner being magic precudes him from taking a magic weapon.

  5. #4
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    here's the update - still tweaking

    Tzeentch army
    Beastlord* shld, +90 Great Fang (no AS), Chaos Armor 4+AS), Crwn of Horns (5+WdS, +1toRally)
    Wargor* hvy armor, shld, PeltDrk Young (6+AS, MgcRes1) Swd of Mt (+1S)
    Wargor* hvy armor, Biting Blade -1AS, Encshld AS5+, armor of damnation (reroll to hit) +70tz
    110 Shaman* lvl2 Staff of Darkoth (+2AS or GrtWpn), Crimson Armour of Dargan (pass LD to attack)
    Minotaur x3 lt armor w/SB Gt wpns
    Minotaur x3 lt armor w/SB xhd wpns
    4x Screamers of Tz
    8x wolves*
    8x wolves*
    BeastHerd* 11G(2hd wpn)/8Un (w/Wargor&Beastlord) FC
    Beastherd* 9G(2hdwpn)/8un (w/ Wargor&Shaman) FC
    10x Bestigor herd w/FC +20Tz +50 Banner of Wrath MMd6 S4 or Blasted Std (Yellow Fire +5Wd)
    Dragon Ogres x3 lt armor, Gt wpns
    Spawn of Chaos
    2236pts
    15pd, 7dd
    I m thinking I might add a bestigor unit or beef it up and lighten the non-ambushing herd - If I can convert one of the Wargors to BSB and have the Beast Banner with my Bestigors, then I will.

  6. #5
    Tabletop Terraformer Tzeentch Lord's Avatar
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    First of all, I'm not giving you a flaming here, but it would be nice if you could actually write out what things are properly. I'm sure you think everyone knows what a Encshld or a Swd of Mt is, but many new players (and even some old ones!) might not know what all of your abbreviations mean, making this thread incomprehensible to them. Plus, it's also a bit difficult to provide advice when spending half the time trying to decipher your code. Finally, it's just plain lazy. So, because I'm such a nice guy, I've written it out for you, so when you make any amendments can just copy and paste this. Anyway, onto your army.

    Quote Originally Posted by buckero0 View Post
    Beastlord* Shield, Great Fang, Chaos Armour, Crown of Horns. =188 points.

    Wargor* Heavy armour, shield, Pelt of the Dark Young, Sword of Might. =111 points.

    Wargor* Heavy armour, Biting Blade, Enchanted shield, Armour of Damnation, Mark of Tzeentch (I presume that's what '+70tz' means anyway). =184 points.

    Bray Shaman* Level 2, Staff of Darkoth. 116 points. (Bray shaman are not allowed armour of any sort, so the Crimson Armour of Dargan is illegal).
    However, your character choices are okay, I think you have a few too many magic items in there but nothing too bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by buckero0 View Post
    Minotaurs x3: Light armor, standard bearer, Great weapons. =168 points
    Minotaurs x3: Light armor, standard bearer, Additional hand weapons. =161 points
    Minotaurs are great, but don't bother with the light armour (unless they're Nurgle minotaurs). a 6+ save is next to useless and is a waste of points.
    Quote Originally Posted by buckero0 View Post
    4x Screamers of Tzeentch. =132 points
    These things are worth their weight in gold, good choice. Although a unit of 5 would increase their unit strength to 5 and allow them to claim the +1/+2 combat bonus for attacking the flank/rear of an enemy unit. It would also allow them to wipe out any fleeing enemy that passed through them.
    Quote Originally Posted by buckero0 View Post
    8x Warhounds (not wolves). =48 points
    8x Warhounds. =48 points
    Again, Warhounds are great, especially for screening, but you might as well save yourself some points. A unit of 5 will do the same job as a unit of 8, but cheaper. Since Warhounds gain ranks instead of being fast cavalry, having a unit of 8 is pointless because the new Warhammer rules state that units only gain rank bonuses when they are at least 5 models wide, meaning a unit of 8 will never get a rank bonus. Even if you're planning on only using them as screens, a unit of 5 may still be preferable, as a 8 wide unit will be quite unwieldy and bad at turning corners.
    Quote Originally Posted by buckero0 View Post
    BeastHerd: 11 Gors (2 hand weapons)/8Ungors. (w/Wargor&Beastlord) Full Command. =144 points.
    Beastherd: 9 Gors (2 hand weapons)/8Ungors. (w/ Wargor&Shaman) Full Command =130 points.

    10x Bestigor herd: Full Command, Mark of Tzeentch, Banner of Wrath or Blasted Standard. =200 points.
    Your Beast herds are fine, good choices on weapon selection, although I'm a bit wary of having all of your characters in just two fairly soft skirmishing units. I quite often have a Wargor or Shaman with a herd, but never two characters. Also, if you're having lords and heroes join a herd, you definately do not need to buy the expensive Foe-Render unit champion. Save yourself some points and ditch both of those.

    As for the Bestigor herd, tiny units of elite troops like that just do not work, they'll have only +1 rank bonus and they'll lose even that when they take a single casualty (which isn't difficult as they only have a 5+ armour save). If you want a Bestigor herd, you need to be willing to spend enough points on it to make it a decent size (20+ models minimum). 20 Bestigors with full command only costs 270 points, which is quite reasonable for an elite unit.
    Quote Originally Posted by buckero0 View Post
    Dragon Ogres x3: Light armor, Great weapons. =237 points
    Spawn of Chaos =60 points
    Both good units, although because the Dragon Ogres already have a scaly skin save, the light armour is actually worthwhile for them. The spawn is sometimes useful too, just don't expect miracles from it!
    Quote Originally Posted by buckero0 View Post
    2236pts
    Well, by my calculations, your army actually comes to 1927 points, so you've added it up wrong, and you've got a few points to spare.
    "Peace, through superior firepower."

  7. #6
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    First of all, thank you for responding. Sorry to all who couldn't understand my abbreviations. I like to write out several possible lists depending on who I think I will be playing since playing dwarfs or undead or elves are all very different. I must have just copied my list and taken out the point values instead of typing out everything. Those abbreviations were for me and I use the list to set up and look at so I remember who has what armor or magic weapon, etc when I am playing. Here's the new list I wll probably be playing with. It is 4 points over, so I may drop an ungor if I need to. My goal is to march everything up behind or spread behind the warhounds. They are in big units 7-8 or ten to withstand shooting without breaking, then they can help the screamers take out warmachines or shooter units or mages. Then the ambushing unit with shaman and wargor spring out behind a big expensive enemy unit , cast some red flames around and lastly charge the rear on that turn using the staff of darkoff. They should almost always flee due to at least 11xstrenght 3 attacks and 3xstrenght 5 attacks to the rear. The Bestigors should be able to handle anything they charge or take a charge from due to back up by minotaurs and double the attacks due to the standard and ward save 5.

    Tzeentch army 15powerdice, 7dispeldice 2254pts
    Beastlord* w/tz (lvl4spell), shld, Rending Sword (D3W after saves) Armor of Dn 4+ArmorSave, Warrior Familiar S5hit base contact.
    Wargor* hvy armor, sheild, PeltDark Young (6+AS, MgcRes1) Sword of Might (+1S)
    Wargor* hvy armor, Beast Banner (+1attack for Unit) BSB
    Shaman* lvl2 Staff of Darkoth (+2AS or GrtWpn), Crimson Armour of Dargan (pass LD to attack, ArmorSave+4)
    Minotaur x4 lt armor w/SB Great wpns
    Minotaur x3 lt armor w/SB extrahand wpns
    5x Screamers of Tz
    10x warhounds*
    10x warhounds*
    BeastHerd* 5G(2hand weapon)/5Un FullCommand
    Beastherd* 10Gor(2hdwpn)/8ungor (w/ Wargor&Shaman) FullCommand
    21x Bestigor w/FullCommand Blasted Std (Yellow Fire +5Ward) (w/BS (w/WargorBSB&Beastlord)
    Spawn of Chaos Firewyrm (Breath Wpn) this is for taking out fanatics and such
    Spawn of Chaos Firewyrm (Breath Wpn) otherwise, Ill add their 30 pts to the Screamers rank
    - Another thing to mention is, that all my heroes, minotaurs and bestigors have mark of Tz, therefore I have 1 level 4 sorceror and 3 level 2 sorcerors and lots of power dice as indicated up top. The all have Chaos armor and some other magic items as well.
    Tz stands for Tzeetch
    * means unit has ambushing rule

    Questions to be answered. Should I combine my minotaurs and just have 1 big unit of 6-8 and lose a power die but add some staying power incase they are targeted with cannons?
    I will be playing highelves, dwarves, goblins, undead, and maybe some ogres with this army.
    Last edited by buckero0; November 22nd, 2006 at 15:12.

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