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Have played fantasy for a few years now but this is my first BoC army, lots of advice needed thanks.
Beastlord, Chaos Runesword, Mark of Khorne, Armour of Damnation and shield (leads trolls)
Wargor, BSB beast banner with Mark of Khorne
Wargor, Mark of Khorne, Sword of might, heavy armour and shield
Bray shaman, lvl 2, staff of Darkroth and dispel scroll (in troll unit)
Herd 1: (will ambush and led by wargor and BS
20 Gor, 15 ungor, full command.
Herd 2: (will ambush)
20 Gor, 15 ungor, full command.
1 Tuskgor Chariot
3 Chaos trolls
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth with great weapon and light armour
Last edited by barracuda101; January 28th, 2007 at 19:04.
Characters: A Chaos Runesword is fairly hefty in price for not much benefit. For the same price you can get a Black Maul and get more bang for your buck. And the thing about Chaos characters is that a GW is the best thing around, because whether they charge or receive a charge, the GW strikes at the same time as any other weapon.
That can be applied to the other wargor. A GW is all that's really needed. The great thing about Khorne is that a GW and HA is all they need. The BSB should get the Sword of Might however, and I'd give him the Armour of Damnation. Give your Lord either the Pelt of the Dark Young or, even better, the Crown of Horns. The Beast Banner is not really worth it for 60 points. I'd just grab a Warbanner and be done with it.
The Shaman is unnecessary, unfluffy, and wasted. You won't be able to get off the Staff with only 3PD per turn. Your opponent will throw all his DD at it, and he'll have more DD than you have PD. Drop it altogether.
Herds: Herds should always have more Ungors than Gors, and should never have more than 8 Gors. This is because 8 wide is probably as wide as you will get, and Gors DO NOT KILL. They are S3. Herds are there to lock things in combat until bigger things come along, and then they lend static CR. I'd change those herds to 8 Gors/13-15 Ungors. And don't ambush with such big herds. Ambushing took a beating in 7th ed. Now we can't march on, and with Ld7 you'll scatter half the time. You don't want 300 points ending up on your own table edge when the battle is already 20" in. Add some 5/5 herds. They can rear charge and are eligable for crossfire.
Chariots: Chariots work best in pairs or more. Just remember they are slow, and they are not real big hitters. One chariot may only do 2-3 wounds against T3 opponents, but it may do 5-6. There's no reliability. That's why people use 2-4.
Trolls: With Ld 8 they're still stupid a whole lot of the time. This unit is bad for your characters for two reasons. If he is in charge range and they go stupid, he will charge out all alone due to frenzy. And, because there are not 5 models, he can be singled out and shot in the unit. He'll die quickly.
Shaggoth: Take either the Giant or the Shaggoth. I prefer a Giant because they are just more reliable. With 5 attacks a Shaggoth is probably doing 3-4 wounds max per turn, and that's just pathetic for a 300 point unit. He is fast, and he's great to flank, but because he's dangerous he'll be shot to bits (very quickly), or your enemy will make sure something very nasty is pointed at him for CC, and he just can't deal with frontal assaults.
I see a few problems with this list:
1) You can't deal with war machines. Your ambush herds are throwing 3-5x the points of at an average war machine. Buy some furies and some 5/5 herds. They're both cheap and damn effective.
2) Your biggest problem is a lack of fast, reliable CC units. These are either Dragon Ogres, Minotaurs or Ogres. You need these to team-charge with your herds, and be fast enough to get a flank. You have one and a half at the moment, with the Shaggoth and Giant (each being about 0.75 of a reliable unit). I'd drop the Shaggoth, Trolls, Warbanner and Shaman for about 600 points and buy 2 units of Minotaurs, 2 5/5 herds and a unit of furies. Or alternatively get Dragon Ogres, Minotaurs, a 5/5 herd and Furies.
Hope this helps.
Beasts of Chaos (4000)
Chaos Marines (3000)
As Tones said... I will use Dragon ogres and Spawns for rare slots :w00t:
Dragon ogres live longer than Shaggy and they have more atacs !
Spawns are unbreakable. I think Beasts need some blockers
Last edited by Ota; January 29th, 2007 at 23:43.
... try Czech language ;-)
Tones has just about got it wrapped, and I cant say im a fan of this list.
In addition to what he said, I think you should make sure you have one herd, 18-20 strong to hide one of your characters in. So, after you drop the shaman, which you need to do, 3 characters means 3 decent herds. Then, add 2 of those 5/5 herds, champion only.
However, Tones, beastmen may only be s3, but they have a lot of attacks to dishout (look at corsairs, witches, ANY human unit etc...S3 doesnt mean a crap unit....), plus the champion is S4. Add to the fact they still get 2 ranks, they have plenty good static res + killing power to deal with lots of different units on their own (even more so with a character in there)
Also, the main reason Beastherds took a hit in 7th ed, is because when i herd enters the table (as if it pursued an enemy off in the previous turn...) you have to line each model up next to each other in one long line. Dunno 'bout you, but i dont want to put a 25 model line on the table edge, esp with the raiders rule.
Even tho in the Beasts book, Trolls are meant for Mortal armies with a LD9 general, or a beasts list lead by a Doombull. Since you want to ambush, that wont happen. Get some minotaurs of khorne instead, are some heavily armoured Ogres if your worried about no armour.
And definately go for twin giants. Very cool, and use the points for that second Chariot. Then buy the extra herds with the points saved from toning down the herds, and dropping the Shaman. Try to fit 6-8 furies, and the list is great.
thank you for the advice,
ive just finished rewriting my list, it will be posted shortly (look for first BoC army second attempt)