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So I was told of something a while back that caught my interest. Someone said that if they were feeling especially mean that day they would actually run their entire beast army as one giant 100 model herd. That the unit would be able to charge into multiple combats at once, and with the heroes be able to make all the opposing units break from combat. Now I guessed that they were using the mark of nurgle to help. Interested in seeing if it would work I tried a unit of 60 gor/ungors in a small 1000 point game. I have to say that I was impressed. It broke 3 dwarf units on the charge wiping out a good portion of their army. Now my real question is, "Is this a common tactic?" "How would you equip your super herd?" Having never really played beasts of chaos (only regular), I found that my first game was odd. And well, I really think the models look cool too.
I dont think ive ever seen this before, but its quite interesting. It could dish out a lot of attacks, and the opponant would need to get a hue amount of kills to panic it.
Problem though, you cant mark Beast Herds, so it would be Ld7 and very vulnerable to terror and fear. Also instant panic checks caused from things like the Tomb King's Catapult would easily make it run away.
Honestly, i think its a very bad idea for a general list. Specifically it could be good, vs dwaves for example as you said, as they would find it difficult to take advantage of the Herd's low Ld.
A few other disadvantages:
The rules of charging multiple units states that units are allowed to charge several units at once if their charge move brings them into contact with more than one unit.
What will the super-herd do if the enemy is sneaky enough to advance with a single unit? (so the others aren't in range, but they do) Furthermore, if this unit is stubborn or even unbreakable the gorherd is likely to get bogged down and then being counter-charged.
Then the gor-specific rule that 25% of the herd's models actually have to be able to reach the opponent in order to make it a valid charge. Precluding casualties on the way that would mean that the Beast Player would need to have 25 models already within 10" of the enemy. that might be difficult (and if the gors are placed closer together let's say hello template weapons )
The super-herd would also be vulnerable to march-blockers (also here having trouble getting the required 25% into charge-range) a dwarven Gyro-copter would be quite the annoyance)
As for the Beast Characters providing the kills for the combat result: Your opponent will most likely also have some characters around, so this might balance itself a little bit out. And your bonus for outnumbering can be offset by the fact that regular infantry get up to +3 for ranks. So if the charge comes only with average rolls, you might win the combat by not too much; this also means the increased risk of one of the broken enemy's units might stand it (and I already mentioned stubborn and/or unbreakable)
And Heavy Cavalry is also your nemesis. Higher movement means that they get the charge, a herd this big means that 2 or even 3 cavalry units might charge then all at once (and that will mean a lot of lance attacks ) and their high armour save makes the gor's attacks a bit futile (of those who still can strike back)
And a bit tournament-related drawback: Some tournaments limit the time available for making your turns. Regular block infantry is usually placed on movement helpers, but this won't do for skirmishers (especially not that big ones) so it might come to that the super herd might be the only unit moving during your turn (and a single unit moving towards the enemy is a bit risky no matter the size)
It ain't easy bein' green... :-)
There was no mark on the unit I was running because I wanted to keep it as cheap as possible, and I won the combat even before my 2 heroes in the unit attacked. The gors/ungors killed 5 dwarves, the heroes killed 5 more, and the dwarves killed 2. The leadership on the herd is terrible, and I thought that this would be a way of mitigating it, because they would need to kill many of them before they would panic from magic or shooting. I see what you are saying, Orkbert, and those were some thing I had not thought of in my initial excitement. It must be stated, however, that the super herd was not my entire force. The beasts with their heroes were only around a half of my points in that game. This gives me units like chariots, warhounds, and minotaurs/ogres, and their respective battlefield roles. Stubborn or unbreakable units will be a problem as you mentioned, do you have any suggestions on what I could do to counter this?
You can get some hounds
Float like a butterfly, Sting like a bee!
Most stubborn or Unbreakable units have a weakness (slayers=no save and slow, spawns=low wounds, swarms=crumble) so you will be ok generally there, as you should be able to get a lot of damage against them.
Also you can just avoid them withn the herd and tie them up in CC with chaos warriors say if your willing to take mortals, they can take damage and hold their ground.
If you want to stick with pure beasts, then Dragon Ogres possibly? expensive, but so are most unbreakable units, and they have good attacks, and a decent save. Or for the cheaper option, ogres with either GW or HW/S depending on if you want a good Sv or high S.
I was running a unit of ogres with great weapons for some hard hitting power, and a chariot too. warhounds for speed, and I think I had furies as well. It seemed pretty balanced for 1000 points. I will post it in the lists section and see what you veterans think.
Ahh i missed the points level in the original post, or just forgot about it when posting. A 60 strong herd at 1K? With the low point level I can see that working quite well actually as generally opponants have less options available to them and have a more standard list, and Herd models are nice and cheap.
Alright, after a game against ogre kingdoms I am no longer worried about things with high toughness. Due to some poor rolling on my part my ogre unit ran back first round due to his magic and ld7 crappiness. The super herd ran through a unit of ogre bulls and ironguts with two heroes. The ironguts were stubborn because of one of the ogre spells (how could I not roll above a 3?) and they lasted 1 round. After the ironguts and heroes were gone he charged me with a unit of 3 bulls and I won that combat too. The game was then called a victory for the beasts. Basically the gist of the whole battle was bray-shamans are amazing when they have the lore of beasts, and if I have to take a leadership check I will fail. Is there any way I can keep my units on the board in a small game? The best leadership I can have is 7. With an expensive and decimating unit like the super herd, I cannot aford to have it run off the board.
Sorry for the necro, but its not *much* of a necro, and I don't feel like asking in the battle report section that's turning into a flamefest.
How exactly do you get the super herd to charge more than one unit and not get massively flanked? Wouldn't the enemy units have to be within 40-50 mm of each other so that when you maximized on a corner you were touching them?