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I have a fairly simple BoC list: A vanilla Bestigor herd with my Beastlord to provide a focus for my opponent. 2-3 chariots on either side of the Bestigor for backup. Two large Beast Herds for flanking, each with a Bray-Shaman. And finally, five ambushing herds.
I have only played two games with the list so far, but both games have followed a similar pattern: Bestigor herd, chariots and Beast herds move up the table, careful to avoid being charged. Ambushing herds enter the table. Opponent gets charged in the rear and the front and dies horribly.
My success can be due to many things (luck, skill, bad opponents, good matchups, etc.). What I want to know is: Are there tactics that work very well against numerous ambusing herds supported by hard hitters, and what are they?
Hmm... I guess you never faced dwarves and/or undead then?
They'd have enough stamina to stand even a multiple direction charge; and remember, beast herds don't negate rank boni, they just get +1/+2 for flank/rear charges. So a decent infantry block would have good chances of standing the charge (dwarven toughness4 combined with heavy armor & shield would soak up a lot of attacks before suffering actual casualties, not to mention even stubborn units, and the undead should have just large enough units to soak up the CR so that you're stuck either way)
And of course other armies could and would have counter-measures, too.
Horde armies should have enough units to field some of them behind the frontal row (those units might even face backwards to react better on your ambush) or if they don't have that much units at least one or two scapegoats to hinder your advance.
Others could just press forward, especially cavalry-heavy armies (with a decent-sized deployment zone they might march out of the charge range of the ambushers forcing your main troops into an early battle)
And of course fear-causing troops will make the charge quite risky (your ambushers have ld7 at best and your general could still be too far away) and botch your combi-charge when you least needed it.
And as I already mentioned, stubborn or unbreakable troops will also be quite the hindrances.
It ain't easy bein' green... :-)
My two games were against Skaven (bit of everything) and Lizardmen (2nd gen Slann with lots of skinks).
The Skaven player had three blocks of clanrats, each with a block of slaves in front. When my beast herds came from behind his clanrats turned around, while his slaves kept facing forwards. This didn't help much though, since three chariots charged his one block of slaves, broke them, then pursued into the rear of the block of clanrats that were charged by the beast herd. Since the beast herd hadn't attacked yet, the chariots got impact hits again. What should the Skaven guy have done?
The Lizardmen player moved forward with all of his skinks and salamanders, but kept his Kroxigor back, since my chariots would charge if he got too close. I charged his salamanders with a chariot, so he fled. Turn three I charged all of his skinks, his salamanders, his Kroxigor and his Slann. I resolved the combats in the wrong order (Kroxigor combat before Slann combat), which meant that my one chariot (which overran into the Kroxigor) didn't get to attack again. Still, everything else got wiped out. What should the Lizardmen guy have done?
Regarding Dwarfs and Undead, doesn't every army struggle a bit with them? Sure, Beast Herds won't mop the floor with them, but won't they at least fare better than normal rank and file?
sounds like your opponents don't know how to play. Skinks are a beastman's bane. They can out manuever you and shoot with poison! Try playing wood elves. They can take beasts pretty well, since their troop choices are better and they have alot of skirmishers as well. Anyone who plans or plays beastmen (especially you) will figure out that he either needs to move up or prepare for the ambush especially with 5 ambushing herds. Honestly, I don't know how you get your herds to show up where you want and I don't know why he doesn't have guys int he back ready to charge your ambushing herds. Skaven should have enough shooting and numbers that they can take out and cause panic before a lot of your guys get to charge. They move just as fast as you and have better tunnelers which can charge when they come out.
Was it some kind of tournament or did your opponent kwen they were up against beastmen?
In the latter case it seems that at least the skaven player was a bit unprepared (he should have enough units to be able to get ito your flanks; not to mention the warp lighning spell or the autohits caused by ratling guns (those should be able to reduce some of your ambushing herds down to insignificant sizes, i.e.4 or less models)
Admittedly the skaven are a bit low on stubborn/unbreakable units.
It ain't easy bein' green... :-)
Like it was said above, fear, stubborn, unbreakable, AND terror don't help much when it comes to the ambush.
There's also some sneaky things people can do. There's a dwarf rune that can selfdestruct a war machine and cause some big hits against attacking units There's a greenskin hero item that does almost the same thing if the hero is killed...I'm sure there's other stuff too
No offense, but I really don't see how skinks are a Beast Herd's bane.
Wood Elves probably would prove to be a formidable opponent, for all the reasons you mentioned.
My general carries the Horn of the Great Hunt, so my ambushers have LD8 when determining whether they emerge where I want them to. This means that I usually get three or four ambushing herds where I want them.
If my opponent has a unit facing rearwards so that he can charge after I ambush then I simply DON'T emerge within charge range. If he has multiple units facing rearwards then he doesn't have a lot facing forwards, which is also acceptable.
Cavalry armies might prove problematic since they move so fast, but normal armies can't really move forward all that much, since I have five chariots waiting for them. He also can't really charge-bait me, since the bait will flee backwards, towards my ambushers.
I haven't faced off against Skaven tunnelers, so I can't comment on them. Are they good enough to defeat Beast Herds though?
In our group it is frowned upon to play with tailored lists, so most guys field all-comer lists.
The Skaven player used a LOT of warp lightning, but I have four dispel scrolls, which really helps a lot. Normal shooting ain't that bad either, since Beast Herds are at least skirmishers, the Bestigor are kinda MEANT to soak fire and chariots don't cause panic in nearby units. The two ratling guns and the single warpfire thrower didn't play a significant role in our game. If he can shoot at my stuff my chariots can charge him, sure he can stand and shoot, but he can only kill one of two chariots charging him.
Last edited by ketter; September 26th, 2007 at 08:22.
Armies: Dark Eldar, Ogre Kingdoms, Beasts of Chaos, Orcs & Goblins, Warriors of Chaos
Past Armies: Dwarfs, Mortal Chaos, Imperial Guard, Space Marine